Neck gap-could it be enb setting?

[smokeybear187]

1 hour ago, SassaAria said:

That's really interesting about ENBswitch triggering that.

Did you try removing all ENB and seeing what it looks like with Vanilla?

Yes, i use an ENB manager and it removed everything between switches. The preset that made it obvious had alot of sharpening(Antique Dragon Enb), prior to that i was using Rudy ENB, and after testing Antique Dragon I switched back to Rudy, with the neck gap/line present.

[downjonsie]

Just open up Racemenu, go to the sculpt tab, and adjust the neck line from there. Use your best judgement. I usually just pull it down ever so slightly. 

Works 100% of the time, and less strenuous.

[downjonsie]

Also, the heaviest body weight (100) produces the least seams (head .nif and hand .nif seem to always be adjusted to max weights). You're best bet is setting the max weight in bodyslide to the shape you want, and editing in Racemenu thereafter.

[smokeybear187]

5 minutes ago, downjonsie said:

Also, the heaviest body weight (100) produces the least seams (head .nif and hand .nif seem to always be adjusted to max weights). You're best bet is setting the max weight in bodyslide to the shape you want, and editing in Racemenu thereafter.

99% of the time I go max weight so thats not an issue. But this Racemenu suggestion is interesting. Can you please elaborate on how to do this? I'm still fairly noob at sculpting besides importing head nifs and some smoothing.

[downjonsie]

8 hours ago, smokeybear187 said:

99% of the time I go max weight so thats not an issue. But this Racemenu suggestion is interesting. Can you please elaborate on how to do this? I'm still fairly noob at sculpting besides importing head nifs and some smoothing.

There isn't too very much I can elaborate on. You just go into the sculpt tab mid game by pulling up Racemenu, it's at the top right. Mask off seams above to neck to not accidentally move them, and pull the very bottom vertices down just slightly. Your seam is miniscule, you'll probably be pulling your mouse down a pixel or two lol

[smokeybear187]

11 hours ago, downjonsie said:

There isn't too very much I can elaborate on. You just go into the sculpt tab mid game by pulling up Racemenu, it's at the top right. Mask off seams above to neck to not accidentally move them, and pull the very bottom vertices down just slightly. Your seam is miniscule, you'll probably be pulling your mouse down a pixel or two lol

Trying out the move sculpting feature actually helped. now the tiny gap is gone. I'm still having issues with a slight color mismatch between the head and body texture, seperate issue ive been battling for months as well, but the tiny gap is definitely less noticeable. Thank you for the suggestion.

[Alli72]

12 hours ago, downjonsie said:

There isn't too very much I can elaborate on. You just go into the sculpt tab mid game by pulling up Racemenu, it's at the top right. Mask off seams above to neck to not accidentally move them, and pull the very bottom vertices down just slightly. Your seam is miniscule, you'll probably be pulling your mouse down a pixel or two lol

I was thinking of trying this but did not think it would work for some reason.  I will give it a go and see how things fly tomorrow.  Sorry, got busy with life.  I thank you and Sassa for taking the time to try and help us with this issue.  It is such a good community here.

[downjonsie]

31 minutes ago, smokeybear187 said:

Trying out the move sculpting feature actually helped. now the tiny gap is gone. I'm still having issues with a slight color mismatch between the head and body texture, seperate issue ive been battling for months as well, but the tiny gap is definitely less noticeable. Thank you for the suggestion.

Color mismatch is almost always because of your specular textures may with be different, have different alpha settings or gloss setting.

 

If you are using a particular specular map from a particular download, make sure it includes all the specular, for body, hands, feet and head. Try to mix as little as possible. I usually use the gloss from demonaic and never have a mismatch color. You can also use nifskope and turn up gloss a little, that should help. 

[smokeybear187]

51 minutes ago, downjonsie said:

Color mismatch is almost always because of your specular textures may with be different, have different alpha settings or gloss setting.

 

If you are using a particular specular map from a particular download, make sure it includes all the specular, for body, hands, feet and head. Try to mix as little as possible. I usually use the gloss from demonaic and never have a mismatch color. You can also use nifskope and turn up gloss a little, that should help. 

Since this problem cropped up, I always use full sets of textures, never mixing. The problem arises whether I'm using demoniac, fair skin, sg, thepure, etc. Happens also at default download resolutions and when optimized by me using ordenador. I thought it was because i compressed some textures, but even at default download resolutions they still have a mismatch. As for Nifscope, i edit all meshes to the same settings, 400 gloss and 5.0 strength.

Image 1: Outside, with snowy weather

Image 2: Outside, sunny weather

Image 3: Indoors, Complexion 0

Image 4: Indoors, Complexion 3 or 4

 

 

enb 2018_02_03 20_29_59_28.bmp

enb 2018_02_03 20_31_00_84.bmp

enb 2018_02_03 20_33_08_31.bmp

enb 2018_02_03 20_33_22_53.bmp

[yatol]

5 hours ago, smokeybear187 said:

Since this problem cropped up, I always use full sets of textures, never mixing. The problem arises whether I'm using demoniac, fair skin, sg, thepure, etc.

nothing to do with textures

and messing with the shape in scult mode is stupid

 

 

here you can't see black point

here you can (color mismatch it's npc 85 tint in load order with npc overhaul tint in texture folder, or something else)
easier to see on that one

it's the body 99% of the time, because


body was made with skeleton x, translation 0 0 7
that became 0 0 7.39 in skeleton y for some reason
so the body no longer ove the same, and it no longer fit the other body parts

and the 1% it's that

or other head replacers that no longer have the same bones for some reason
 

 

[Alli72]

On 2/3/2018 at 1:26 AM, downjonsie said:

Just open up Racemenu, go to the sculpt tab, and adjust the neck line from there. Use your best judgement. I usually just pull it down ever so slightly. 

Works 100% of the time, and less strenuous.

Thanks, that did the trick for neck gap, any suggestions for wrist microgap?  I figure I can slap something to cover it as its more minor then even neck was, if nothing else

[Alli72]

8 hours ago, yatol said:

nothing to do with textures

and messing with the shape in scult mode is stupid

  Reveal hidden contents

 

here you can't see black point

here you can (color mismatch it's npc 85 tint in load order with npc overhaul tint in texture folder, or something else)
easier to see on that one

it's the body 99% of the time, because


body was made with skeleton x, translation 0 0 7
that became 0 0 7.39 in skeleton y for some reason
so the body no longer ove the same, and it no longer fit the other body parts

and the 1% it's that

or other head replacers that no longer have the same bones for some reason
 

 

I kind of understand what you are saying, but I have 0 experience playing with nif scope.  I can tell you that I have but one mod changing  fmeale skeletons:  XPSME,  one mod effecting the female body: The bodies that I built in body slide (i do not install the bodies from bodyslide itself) and I have but one mod overriding the female skin.   This is on a fresh install of skyrim and a fresh download of each of these mods.  I still make microgap.  If xpsme is the only thing over-riding a fresh install of a vanilla skeleton, how can their be an error unless there is an error in the most recent download of xpsme on both nexus and LL?

 

Edit:  I can safely say the skeleton being loaded in MO is the same one being downlaod from nexus and lovers lab. I have managed enough with nif to know that.  So, while i realize that sculpting the neck is not the best solution or even a good one., it is a solution that is producing a positive result.  It sucks, i want the issue fixed without having to spend 10 minutes altering the sculpt everytime i create a character.  But, as of yet, no suggest here outside altering the sculpt has produced tangible results

 

I do great appreciate the other suggestions that I have tried and how helpfull everyone has been.  A novice like me to using nifscope and other more detailed functions of bodyslide eventually gets to the point of either making do with  a fix that help the issue or giving up lol.

[Alli72]

I will add that it is only when using bodyslide that i get the microgaps.  if i exclude bodyslide for any of my female body builds, there is 0 gap.  This is just been confirmed in three different female builds by me.  So, something in the body meshes being created by bodyslide is not playing well with skeleton.

 

[yatol]

1 hour ago, Alli72 said:

 

Edit:  I can safely say the skeleton being loaded in MO is the same one being downlaod from nexus and lovers lab.

 

1 hour ago, Alli72 said:

I will add that it is only when using bodyslide that i get the microgaps.

 

because you didn't replaced bodyslide skeleton with whatever you use

 

with tbbp tits don't move the same

there would be black points on the hands if there wasn't edited bodie behind

 

[SassaAria]

On 03/02/2018 at 12:22 AM, smokeybear187 said:

Yes, i use an ENB manager and it removed everything between switches. The preset that made it obvious had alot of sharpening(Antique Dragon Enb), prior to that i was using Rudy ENB, and after testing Antique Dragon I switched back to Rudy, with the neck gap/line present.

That is seriously interesting that ENB change is triggering that, and that it stays like that when you remove the ENB again.

Like some residual file is left behind.

How else to explain it?

If i ever have a similar issue, i will have an idea where to start looking.  Thanks.

On 03/02/2018 at 12:26 AM, downjonsie said:

Just open up Racemenu, go to the sculpt tab, and adjust the neck line from there. Use your best judgement. I usually just pull it down ever so slightly. 

Works 100% of the time, and less strenuous.

Very nice of you to share this quick fix!  

 

I think with you 3 users coming forward and having this issue, it's starting to appear there is a minor issue with UUNP meshes, or maybe just the UUNP morphs for making the bodytypes.

It does make me wonder if "someone" shouldn't go through the UUNP meshes and .tri morphs and get them tweaked.  (May have to do them for some or all the bodytypes like CHSBC, Seraphin, UNPK, 7B, and all the others.

It's like there is a slight offset in the official UUNP mesh, or in some of the morphs (.tri) for bodysliding.

 

I honestly thought about starting on this after reading this,

but I stopped using baseUUNP long time ago,

and I am working on my own custom hi-res body for SMP, so my desktop is groaning enough as it is.

So that "someone" will have to be someone else .

Not likely to happen,

so prbly this idea should be listed as an official tip for fixing UUNP neck seams in some cases.

And I think alot of people like to do their own lil fixes to make it their own, rather than getting a perfect BSL to start with .

 

Nice piccie by the way !

 

16 hours ago, Alli72 said:

I was thinking of trying this but did not think it would work for some reason.  I will give it a go and see how things fly tomorrow.  Sorry, got busy with life.  I thank you and Sassa for taking the time to try and help us with this issue.  It is such a good community here.

Thanks for making the original 2 threads, posting the very helpful piccies, working through all the suggestions and pushing this topic to higher visibility!

UUNP is a fantastic BodySet compilation!  and should get every improvement it can get. 

Have fun!

 

[smokeybear187]

14 hours ago, yatol said:

nothing to do with textures

and messing with the shape in scult mode is stupid

  Hide contents

 

here you can't see black point

here you can (color mismatch it's npc 85 tint in load order with npc overhaul tint in texture folder, or something else)
easier to see on that one

it's the body 99% of the time, because


body was made with skeleton x, translation 0 0 7
that became 0 0 7.39 in skeleton y for some reason
so the body no longer ove the same, and it no longer fit the other body parts

and the 1% it's that

or other head replacers that no longer have the same bones for some reason
 

 

Ive actually downloaded complexion/tintmask mods to see if anything was overwriting my base ones, and it turns out there was none. Even with the higher res complexion tint masks overwriting the vanilla ones, i still had the slight mismatch.

 

3 hours ago, SassaAria said:

That is seriously interesting that ENB change is triggering that, and that it stays like that when you remove the ENB again.

Like some residual file is left behind.

How else to explain it?

If i ever have a similar issue, i will have an idea where to start looking.  Thanks.

Very nice of you to share this quick fix!  

 

I think with you 3 users coming forward and having this issue, it's starting to appear there is a minor issue with UUNP meshes, or maybe just the UUNP morphs for making the bodytypes.

It does make me wonder if "someone" shouldn't go through the UUNP meshes and .tri morphs and get them tweaked.  (May have to do them for some or all the bodytypes like CHSBC, Seraphin, UNPK, 7B, and all the others.

It's like there is a slight offset in the official UUNP mesh, or in some of the morphs (.tri) for bodysliding.

 

I honestly thought about starting on this after reading this,

but I stopped using baseUUNP long time ago,

and I am working on my own custom hi-res body for SMP, so my desktop is groaning enough as it is.

So that "someone" will have to be someone else .

Not likely to happen,

so prbly this idea should be listed as an official tip for fixing UUNP neck seams in some cases.

And I think alot of people like to do their own lil fixes to make it their own, rather than getting a perfect BSL to start with .

 

Nice piccie by the way !

 

Thanks for making the original 2 threads, posting the very helpful piccies, working through all the suggestions and pushing this topic to higher visibility!

UUNP is a fantastic BodySet compilation!  and should get every improvement it can get. 

Have fun!

 

I guess its possible that its a problem with the base uunp mesh, but if it was im sure alot more experience users would have noticed this and brought it up. Each new BS update i rebuild my body (UUNP Speicial) with the BS preset i like, and i create a new Overwrite folder to store the new meshes. I also copy the Head mesh that comes with the prebuilt mesh installer option for Bodyslide and use that to edit the gloss for my head mesh. Ill try hiding the BS head mesh and seeing if using the vanilla head mesh gives me any change, but i doubt it.

[downjonsie]

13 hours ago, Alli72 said:

Thanks, that did the trick for neck gap, any suggestions for wrist microgap?  I figure I can slap something to cover it as its more minor then even neck was, if nothing else

Try your body at maximum weight. I never had to deal with this issue because I never take my dovahs gloves off lol. Idk, kind of a kink I have for seeing ladies fucked in thigh boots and long gloves.

[Alli72]

9 hours ago, yatol said:

 

because you didn't replaced bodyslide skeleton with whatever you use

 

with tbbp tits don't move the same

there would be black points on the hands if there wasn't edited bodie behind

 

I will state use MO.  What I was saying there was that I deleted any skeleton from any mod except XPSME.  There are no skeletons in my bodyslide.  There are no skeletons in my realistic ragdoll.   I look in the Data panel in MO, XPSME is the only skeleton listed and it is not overwriting anything because every skeleton but the vanilla skeleton in the "real" data folder has been deleted.  The only skeleton in the "Virtual" data folder is from xpsme.  The only body meshes are the ones created by BSL by me.  all other body meshes in mods were deleted by me.   The only textures are those from fair skin, any other textures were deleted from the mods installed through MO. 

 

To summarize:

XPMSE = the only skeleton in any mod in my skyrim build.

Bodyslide Meshes custom created by me = The only female body meshes from a mod in my skyrim build.

Fair Skin = The only female textures for non-beast races in my skyrim build.

 

Any of these three items appearing in any other mod in my load-out was personally deleted by me.  Only those exist.   The mirco gap remains.  After deleting all those files, I load game without body slide and microgap is gone!  Since I deleted any skeletons from body slide (or any other files by XPSME) it is not a skeleton issue.  Sassa appears to be currect in that, with the BSL created meshes, there is a problem with UNP meshes being slight off for player.   Until or if someone fixes this issue, There is nothing to be done except do manual fixes to eliminated microgaps.  

 

EDIT: To confirm this, I went with CBBE ina  build while watching superbowl.   There was no microgaps with CBBE, female body is perfect.  Once you have eliminated everything else, whatever is left, however improbable, has to be the truth.  the truth, as already mentioned is that UNP  meshes created by BSL have a minor, annoy issue.

 

I appreciate everything suggested by Down, sassa and yatol.  It has helped me eliminated possible problems until I came to this conclusion. 

[SassaAria]

6 hours ago, smokeybear187 said:

I guess its possible that its a problem with the base uunp mesh, but if it was im sure alot more experience users would have noticed this and brought it up. Each new BS update i rebuild my body (UUNP Speicial) with the BS preset i like, and i create a new Overwrite folder to store the new meshes. I also copy the Head mesh that comes with the prebuilt mesh installer option for Bodyslide and use that to edit the gloss for my head mesh. Ill try hiding the BS head mesh and seeing if using the vanilla head mesh gives me any change, but i doubt it.

 

Just a suggestion, if you want to dig more into the origins of this issue.

In OutfitStudio, load up UUNP ref body and one by one go through some of the whole body presets.

You'll see how the whole mesh shifts, sometimes in a big way, especially in the waist and butt/crotch and thigh areas.

When those morphs were created, one for each preset, there is always the risk of making a slight shift higher up, depending on workflow, and sometimes just unlucky accidents that 3d user doesn't even see.  There's alot of presets there.  Lots of room for "tiny" mistakes.

TBH what BringTheNoise put together with Caliente/Ousnious there is amazing.

 

As for people reporting this if it was an issue, we have 3 in this thread already in one week which is alot compared to other issues around here based on what I've seen.

Also, maybe it's just certain presets, or maybe just even one, and the rest are good.  So that will affect how many users actually have issues.

 

The UUNP body (Vanilla, HDT, Special)  is the same every version release since Sept 13, 2016.

You'll see that date if you unzip the latest BSL/OS 4.4.2.

So you could save yourself the rebuild with each version update? 

 

UUNP has a major issue with the ridge being formed between the bum cheeks when in  certain doggystyle positions, which to this day is not fixed.

I made a patch-temp fix for SMP-UUNP version way back a year ago using weights that improved it alot.

In the meantime redid the mesh in that area so it doesn't exist at all.

TBH, can't remember the last time i saw someone post about this issue,

which is maybe an indication of how many people comment about those kind of issues?

And that is an eye-sore when you see it.

 

As someone who has worked very intensively with meshes, consider that slight shift theory as very worthwhile for the next thing to check out (but agree, it's not guaranteed to be necesarily the problem).

 

Did post the that patch-temp fix mentionned above publically, and it still has the micro-gap to this day. 

But it was shared as a rough Experimental that i shared as a "research" item for SMPers.

And I shifted to something different for body right after, so i never made the time to deal with the shift.

But in my situation, knew likely with two 3d apps used, that I had likely introduced a shift (or maybe it was an accident).

Only mention that patch cause it does include the bum-ridge issue patch-fix that someone might want to peek at.

 

Lucky for me, I don't have this problem yet with the stuff I made afterwards and am using.

If anyone does find the real cause, hope you share it.

 

 

 

 

 

[smokeybear187]

16 hours ago, SassaAria said:

 

Just a suggestion, if you want to dig more into the origins of this issue.

In OutfitStudio, load up UUNP ref body and one by one go through some of the whole body presets.

You'll see how the whole mesh shifts, sometimes in a big way, especially in the waist and butt/crotch and thigh areas.

When those morphs were created, one for each preset, there is always the risk of making a slight shift higher up, depending on workflow, and sometimes just unlucky accidents that 3d user doesn't even see.  There's alot of presets there.  Lots of room for "tiny" mistakes.

TBH what BringTheNoise put together with Caliente/Ousnious there is amazing.

 

As for people reporting this if it was an issue, we have 3 in this thread already in one week which is alot compared to other issues around here based on what I've seen.

Also, maybe it's just certain presets, or maybe just even one, and the rest are good.  So that will affect how many users actually have issues.

 

The UUNP body (Vanilla, HDT, Special)  is the same every version release since Sept 13, 2016.

You'll see that date if you unzip the latest BSL/OS 4.4.2.

So you could save yourself the rebuild with each version update? 

 

UUNP has a major issue with the ridge being formed between the bum cheeks when in  certain doggystyle positions, which to this day is not fixed.

I made a patch-temp fix for SMP-UUNP version way back a year ago using weights that improved it alot.

In the meantime redid the mesh in that area so it doesn't exist at all.

TBH, can't remember the last time i saw someone post about this issue,

which is maybe an indication of how many people comment about those kind of issues?

And that is an eye-sore when you see it.

 

As someone who has worked very intensively with meshes, consider that slight shift theory as very worthwhile for the next thing to check out (but agree, it's not guaranteed to be necesarily the problem).

 

Did post the that patch-temp fix mentionned above publically, and it still has the micro-gap to this day. 

But it was shared as a rough Experimental that i shared as a "research" item for SMPers.

And I shifted to something different for body right after, so i never made the time to deal with the shift.

But in my situation, knew likely with two 3d apps used, that I had likely introduced a shift (or maybe it was an accident).

Only mention that patch cause it does include the bum-ridge issue patch-fix that someone might want to peek at.

 

Lucky for me, I don't have this problem yet with the stuff I made afterwards and am using.

If anyone does find the real cause, hope you share it.

 

 

 

 

 

I've noticed the file dates for the UUNP meshes, but I figured I might as well try rebuilding and editing the meshes with each update to be able to say, yes i did that, and no, it didnt help. I actually made a similar post to this over 6 months back, https://www.loverslab.com/topic/77919-neck-seam-has-defeated-attempts-to-fix-please-help/ , and after alot of help and suggestions, I was left just having to accept it. Best thing I could do was pick and choose my enb/skin textures carefully that allows me to ignore the seam as much as possible. I'll try using different custom presets and see if this makes any difference in the seam.

[xxnierxxautomata2b]

I am currently have the same issue with the tiny micro gap. Looking at it closely seems to be sparkle like gap when in light. Has anyone possibly found a solution for this?

[xxnierxxautomata2b]

On 2/5/2018 at 11:05 AM, smokeybear187 said:

I've noticed the file dates for the UUNP meshes, but I figured I might as well try rebuilding and editing the meshes with each update to be able to say, yes i did that, and no, it didnt help. I actually made a similar post to this over 6 months back, https://www.loverslab.com/topic/77919-neck-seam-has-defeated-attempts-to-fix-please-help/ , and after alot of help and suggestions, I was left just having to accept it. Best thing I could do was pick and choose my enb/skin textures carefully that allows me to ignore the seam as much as possible. I'll try using different custom presets and see if this makes any difference in the seam.

Have you found a fix for this micro gap? it happens with all npcs. Male and female