Neck gap-could it be enb setting?

[Alli72]

Okay. I resitalled my graphics mods and then only body mods.  I am still getting a microgap in my neck and wrist.  They do appear to be slightly less this go round and there is 0 gap between feet and legs.  My body mods in load order are:

 

Body Slide 4.4

Fair Skin 9.3

XPSME Skeleton 3.94

Naturalistic  Bounce and Jiggles 3.68

 

I have tried different skins (Leyend 4.0, Demoniac, etc)  but Fair skin has the least gap and color match is nigh perfect.   I have built and re-built the bodies (hands, feet, body)  I have 9 body files.   I have tried different normal maps with each skin.  I have tried altering weight, saving and reloading and changing weight again. I have checked skeleton repeatedly.  Everything seems to be loading as it should.   I am posting again because I reinstalled, running even less mods doing trial and gap still there.  Hoping someone new sees this and has an idea that I have not tried.  I do want to ask, could an enb setting be the cause of this micro gap?

 

Here are some screenies of it:

 

 

[SassaAria]

Long time again I came across a recco for ENB and avoiding neck seams.

In enblocal.ini under [Fix]  reccomendation was "FixTintGamma=false"

That's only one i have run across.

Set mine to that long ago, so I don't know if it's a mircale fix.

 

As someone who bakes own normals, makes own meshes, and weightpaints,

and based on all the normals you tried and bodytypes,

and based on your 2 images (assuming they are pose shifting left to right while idling?)

would suggest that your weight paints per vert should be looked at. 

Specifically, your femalehead vs your body - vert by vert where they meet.  (using Outfit studio where weight values are clearly displayed by bone. )

 

Weight ideally is identical per pert per bone at that seam, or with shifting body poses you can get breaks like that. 

That's one of many pains with meshes that have to line up.

 

Also, I didn't see anything about your femalehead origins.  Did you check to make sure somehow you didn't get a "wrong" femalehead in your load order?

Would check that first before, doing the vert by vert check.

 

 

 

 

 

[Alli72]

19 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

Long time again I came across a recco for ENB and avoiding neck seams.

In enblocal.ini under [Fix]  reccomendation was "FixTintGamma=false"

That's only one i have run across.

Set mine to that, so I don't know if it's a mircale fix.

 

As someone who bakes own normals, makes own meshes, and weightpaints,

and based on all the normals you tried and bodytypes,

and based on your 2 images (assuming they are pose shifting left to right while idling?)

would suggest that your weight paints per vert should be looked at. 

Specifically, your femalehead vs your body - vert by vert where they meet.  (using Outfit studio where weight values are clearly displayed by bone. )

 

Weight ideally is identical per pert per bone at that seam, or with shifting body poses you can get breaks like that. 

That's one of many pains with meshes that have to line up.

 

Also, I didn't see anything about your femalehead origins.  Did you check to make sure somehow you didn't get a "wrong" femalehead in your load order?

Would check that first before, doing the vert by vert check.

 

 

 

 

 

My Head is currently listed as being in Body slide (the .nif file) while my body is listed under the mod I created from the 9 parts of the body made by using bodyslide's build command.

[SassaAria]

Am a manual installer myself and have zero clue about MO vs loadorder priorities, etc.

I'd say import both nifs into Oufit Studio and check how the verts line up, and especially the weights where each meets.

Using your images see where the verts are worst and check those first?

That's what i would do anyway.

 

[Alli72]

18 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

Am a manual installer myself and have zero clue about MO vs loadorder priorities, etc.

I'd say import both nifs into Oufit Studio and check how the verts line up, and especially the weights where each meets.

Using your images see where the verts are worst and check those first?

That's what i would do anyway.

 

I am trying that currently.  I am still a bit new to doing this so taking a bit.  It appears to be matching, but not 100% sure.  It appears to be weight 1 v 1 around the seam, but slightest twitch and i get a little less like .99564..but then it may be that i am a little off the line lol

 

EDIT: After loading just the head and checking the base of neck and then loading jsut the body and checking the the amtching area there.  The appropriate vertices seem to be all 1.

[Alli72]

This has become most vexing, I must say.  My old build using all in one animated did not have this issue.  I upgrade or change, boom micro gap.

[SassaAria]

Just to make 100% sure, loading just femalehead, switch to NPC head bone, and make sure there's no weight paints for it on the seam verts.

And for body check to make sure no clavicle weights also on neck seam.

Once that's done (unless there's a mystery weight assigned to another bone - just arrow down in bone menu to check) then weights should be eliminated as a possible suspect for this problem.

[SassaAria]

If it's not the weights,

you are left with

(1) mesh shifted a tiny bit somehow?

Could try and reDL the orig BSL/OS mod with assets?  Maybe the oldest Bodyslide available?

 

(2) did you try in console ?

setnpcweight 20 (to break the weight and create a gap)

disable

enable

exit console

go back into console

setnpcweight 100

disable

enable

 

(3) after that, if still no, think it comes down to checking uvs and how they line up with textures, which shouldn't be needed for UUNP though you'd think

Though will be honest I never checked standard UUNP to make sure it is perfect for neck seams.

So 100% for sure it was perfect before?

[Alli72]

6 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

Just to make 100% sure, loading just femalehead, switch to NPC head bone, and make sure there's no weight paints for it.

And for body check to make sure no clavicle weights.

Once that's done (unless there's a mystery weight assigned to another bone - just arrow down in bone menu to check) then weights should be elimnated as an issue.

Okay, I think I have been doing everything right looking at the nif files in bodyslide, outfit studio.  It appears to be correct.  I could be missing something , i am pretty novice at examining nif files (That is why I appreciate creating those who are able to mod)  I did disable all my female body mods and load up a female character with vanilla everything and there was 0 gap.   I know it may be silly, but figured it did not hurt to confirm it was something with the mods not playing nice rather then maybe a corrupt file causing an issue.

 

I really do appreciate your trying to help me with this and having patience with me as i fumble through some stuff I am not real familiar with.

[Alli72]

9 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

If it's not the weights,

you are left with

(1) mesh shifted a tiny bit somehow?

Could try and reDL the orig BSL/OS mod with assets?

 

(2) did you try in console ?

setnpcweight 20 (to break the weight and create a gap)

disable

enable

exit console

go back into console

setnpcweight 100

disable

enable

 

(3) after that, if still no, think it comes down to checking uvs and how they line up with textures, which shouldn't be needed for UUNP though you'd think

Though will be honest I never checked standard UUNP to make sure it is perfect for neck seams.

So 100% for sure it was perfect before?

I have not tried #2, what am I disabling/enabling?

[SassaAria]

Try DLing oldest BSL files available at Nexus and make that your active mod for BSLing using assets of that older mod and see if issue persists.

[SassaAria]

5 minutes ago, Alli72 said:

I have not tried #2, what am I disabling/enabling?

hit tilde-key (~)

click on your toon, and you should see her character active on right lower corner if you were successful in selection

if not try again, or you may have to change camera angle inorder to to get her active

 

then do those steps typing in the text one line at a time followeed by enter key.

 

[Alli72]

8 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

Try DLing oldest BSL files available at Nexus and make that your active mod for BSLing using assets of that older mod and see if issue persists.

I see they only have the newest bodyslide up on the nexus.  I seen people on a  few forums posting asking for an older one, but no replies yet.

7 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

hit tilde-key (~)

click on your toon, and you should see her character active on right lower corner if you were successful in selection

if not try again, or you may have to change camera angle inorder to to get her active

 

then do those steps typing in the text one line at a time followeed by enter key.

 

Okay, I took a guessed that was what you meant and tried it.  Micro gap is still there.   From any distance, I do not really see it, but only when i get about as close as I am int he SS..maybe a touch further back.  

[SassaAria]

Huh, not so long BSL had several versions listed.

I'll send you a PM with it in a bit once i upload (Ousnious said in another thread PMing was ok).

[smokeybear187]

Ive actually been having the same problem for months now, popped up outta nowhere. Sadly I dont know whats caused it and the only thing i can do to fix it is use ENB/skin textures that mask it best. I've found that the complexion tab in racemenu can have this effect as well.

[Alli72]

4 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

Huh, not so long BSL had several versions listed.

I'll send you a PM with it in a bit once i upload (Ousnious said in another thread PMing was ok).

Okay, thanks.   And that is fine by me as well.

[SassaAria]

PM sent.

As per Ousnious wishes please don't repost older versionbs publically.

This is just for troubleshooting.

[SassaAria]

7 minutes ago, smokeybear187 said:

Ive actually been having the same problem for months now, popped up outta nowhere. Sadly I dont know whats caused it and the only thing i can do to fix it is use ENB/skin textures that mask it best. I've found that the complexion tab in racemenu can have this effect as well.

Are u bodysliding UUNP too?

[Alli72]

22 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

PM sent.

As per Ousnious wishes please don't repost older versionbs publically.

This is just for troubleshooting.

Well, I tried it and still have to microgap.   I really thank you for everything.  At some angles the gap seems to disappear.  Aslo, in what is a standard third person distance, you definitely notice 0 wrist gaps and neck gap can only be kinda seen if you peer closely.  Wrist gaps are only see-able at one or two angles.  Problem is, once you know it is there, your eyes naturally look for it.  

[smokeybear187]

50 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

Are u bodysliding UUNP too?

Yes, UUNP. My problem is similar to OP, but it also shows up in certain lighting in 3rd person at a bit of a distance.

[SassaAria]

Can u say with 100% confidence that you didn't have that gap before, but just didn't notice?

Just curious.

My gals always stuff on around their necks so I just never noticed.

 

Only time I got that microgap was when I did my own 3d work with UUNP (for SMP and up-resing it) and it looked just like that.

Guessing it happened then because I was moving assets through multiple 3d programs which ever so slightly shifted the mesh.

 

[SassaAria]

6 minutes ago, smokeybear187 said:

Yes, UUNP. Mine problem is similar to OP, but it also shows up in certain lighting in 3rd person at a bit of a distance.

At a bit of distance as well doesn't sound right. 

Did you try other normal maps?

[SassaAria]

Say are you guys using "zeroed -sliders" preset for your BSL-UUNP?

[smokeybear187]

21 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

Can u say with 100% confidence that you didn't have that gap before, but just didn't notice?

Just curious.

My gals always stuff on around their necks so I just never noticed.

 

Only time I got that microgap was when I did my own 3d work with UUNP (for SMP and up-resing it) and it looked just like that.

Guessing it happened then because I was moving assets through multiple 3d programs which ever so slightly shifted the mesh.

 

Yes, im sure. Of course the gaps are never 100% gone from what i understand, but they were never noticable, until after i switched enbs and saw it real clearly. I switched back and it was still there. Not blaming the enb, but after that point it suddenly became pronounced. I also have fixtintgamma off.

 

22 minutes ago, SassaAria said:

At a bit of distance as well doesn't sound right. 

Did you try other normal maps?

Ive tried multiple textures, full sets each time, ive tried mixing them as well. The effect is varied, but generally its still there.

[SassaAria]

9 minutes ago, smokeybear187 said:

Yes, im sure. Of course the gaps are never 100% gone from what i understand, but they were never noticable, until after i switched enbs and saw it real clearly. I switched back and it was still there. Not blaming the enb, but after that point it suddenly became pronounced. I also have fixtintgamma off.

 

Ive tried multiple textures, full sets each time, ive tried mixing them as well. The effect is varied, but generally its still there.

That's really interesting about ENBswitch triggering that.

Did you try removing all ENB and seeing what it looks like with Vanilla?