Do you feel guilty when you cheat?

[GimmeBACON]

 

 

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheat   Put simply; to act unfairly in order to gain an advantage. Mods don't also do this? between god weapons, teleport spells and Additemmenu... yes, yes they do. To be non-biased, all mods in question would have to have stats on line with vanilla, because to be stronger would be an unfair advantage, and thus "cheating".

 

 

Read the post you quoted

 

I did, I'm saying that cheating encompasses a broader spectrum then your post.

[Content Consumer]

 

 

 

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheat   Put simply; to act unfairly in order to gain an advantage. Mods don't also do this? between god weapons, teleport spells and Additemmenu... yes, yes they do. To be non-biased, all mods in question would have to have stats on line with vanilla, because to be stronger would be an unfair advantage, and thus "cheating".

 

 

Read the post you quoted

 

I did, I'm saying that cheating encompasses a broader spectrum then your post.

 

 

Kinky's personal definition of cheating is skipping content, no matter what that content is. While I agree that it doesn't really seem to fit the general definition of "cheating," it is internally consistent. God weapons may not qualify, being as they don't really skip content, unless combat duration is considered content. Teleport spells may come under the same heading, though I admit the difference between casting a spell to move X distance versus using TCL to move the same distance is a narrow one, and one could argue that actually moving that distance, via console code or otherwise, is experiencing the content that is walking... we're just splitting finer and finer hairs now.

The problem... or rather, I should say my problem with, Kinky's definition of cheating is the generally accepted negative connotations of the word. He doesn't appear to mean it in any negative way, though, so it's just become a semantics issue.

So... it's cool.  

Original poster seems undecided.

 

 

 

Original poster apparently has a religious upbringing problem.

No offense, MsOtaku! Loves! 

[gregathit]

Single player........No.  What is there to feel guilty about?  It is a game you bought, so do whatever makes you happy.

 

Multiplayer......YES!  If you can't play by the same rules as everyone else, then don't play.

[Content Consumer]

Single player........No.  What is there to feel guilty about?  It is a game you bought, so do whatever makes you happy.

 

Multiplayer......YES!  If you can't play by the same rules as everyone else, then don't play.

 

Oh, yeah... I forgot about multiplayer, wasn't even thinking along those lines. Multiplayer cheating is a terrible thing.

 

The problem there is some people (myself included occasionally) at times knee-jerkily define "cheating" as "more highly experienced." In ways that aren't easily attributed to experience, specifically. Like this.

 

It's super annoying playing a game against someone who isn't, strictly speaking, "cheating," but does know the game rules, or level setup, or just general mechanics, better than you.

[Chbaakal]

Cheating is bad only if A: you are competing with others, to show off your abilities and skill, or B: you've chosen all the strict boundaries inherent in vanilla gameplay for self-gratification (usually to brag of your 'L33T' superiority over others, or if your forcing yourself to follow gaming 'Rules' set by those telling you that you should play games their way).

 

It is NOT cheating if you have to mod the shit out of YOUR game because of faulty code, idiotic questlines, lackluster gear, a skewed leveling system, tedious gameplay, and anything else that makes YOUR enjoyment of YOUR gameplay seem like WORK when all you want to do is relax and enjoy the game YOU envision for yourself.

 

Anyone who says your cheating can go piss up a rope. YOUR gameplay shouldn't concern them, and they shouldn't stick their nose into your business in the first place.

 

Mod all you want. Play how you want.

 

gregathit, on 06 Nov 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

Single player........No.  What is there to feel guilty about?  It is a game you bought, so do whatever makes you happy.

 

[gregathit]

Oh, yeah... I forgot about multiplayer, wasn't even thinking along those lines. Multiplayer cheating is a terrible thing.

 

The problem there is some people (myself included occasionally) at times knee-jerkily define "cheating" as "more highly experienced." In ways that aren't easily attributed to experience, specifically. Like this.

 

It's super annoying playing a game against someone who isn't, strictly speaking, "cheating," but does know the game rules, or level setup, or just general mechanics, better than you.

 

While that is true, it is also true that they have taken the time to perfect those skills through study and practice.  It would be wrong on every level to not have that count for something.  No matter how you slice it, Multiplayer cheating is and always will be wrong.

 

Now taking advantage of game exploits......well.......they are part of the game.  It isn't exactly "honorable" but the exploits can be used by all.....until they are patched of course.

[jfraser]

I usually don't like to cheat at a game until I've beaten it at least once.  If it's extremely difficult, I take breaks from it until my frustration subsides.

Yes, this I agree with completely. Once I've beaten a game legitimately, I have no compunction about going back and just playing around with whatever cheats sound fun.

 

There is a fine line between some forms of cheating and game functions. For instance, it would be cheating to coc somewhere in Skyrim, but fast travel is a part of the game so it is, by definition, not cheating. Although I never fast travel because it kills immersion for me.

[Ark of Truth]

This may come as a shock to some but I never cheat. For Skyrim and Fallout 4 I was challenged by a friend to play without cheats. To make things even more exciting my friend challenged me to Fallout 4 on survival mode, which I thank her for as I am having fun.

[LordJerle]

I play to have fun, and if cheating's what's fun for the moment, go for it.

[MsOtaku]

Seven Hells! What have I started?! Way too many people to quote, sorry I can't quote you all, and things to address. I'll do my best. Also, not all my replies to quotes are directed at that specific person I have quoted, some are meant for everyone that has posted here.

 

You guysh are grape when you're drunk.

Seriously cogent and (what's a synonym meaning "smart").

Today you just got home from church and you can't remember writing in this thread,

and you're probably thinking "OMG did I say that??"

But you spelled perfectly, you didn't lose your head, and you read stuff, I'm so jealous.

 

Wine....I remember wine.

 

Will you be told of in stories?

  Will you curse future generations?

   or will you forget...

    Let your wind be your guide

     Your future lies before you ,end scene. 

 

Oh, billiedovahin. I laughed so much when I read this! I'm proud to say I handle my liquor very well, never get hangovers, and 99.9% of the time recall what I did the night before. And no, I would not be coming back from church. I may have been raised in a strict Catholic home but, I am not a religious person. One might call me Agnostic. Plus I may be banned from all Christian-based houses of worship since that one time I visited the Vatican, crawled up the walls, and began speaking in reverse Latin.

 

 

 

Original poster seems undecided.

 

 

I'm decided on the fact that I felt guilty last night for cheating even despite that I drank enough bottles of wine to knock out a small horse and shouldn't really have given a crap (because that's what booze does.) until I loaded up my game today THEN felt bad about it. Well, guess what? I still feel guilty. Soooooo, yep. I'm still decided and feel the same way.

 

 

Original poster apparently has a religious upbringing problem.

No offense, MsOtaku! Loves! 

 

 

None taken!    And I don't have a "religious upbringing problem." What I hash tagged was meant to be sarcasm even though I was raised Catholic. Just adding some drama to my sense of guilt at the moment.

 

Single player........No.  What is there to feel guilty about?  It is a game you bought, so do whatever makes you happy.

 

Multiplayer......YES!  If you can't play by the same rules as everyone else, then don't play.

 

Single player: While I appreciate what you said I'm still feeling guilty, I guess that's already quite evident. I've been reading the back and forth argument, in this thread, about what constitutes as cheating. I don't think anyone here or on any other forum will come to a unified conclusion on what really defines "cheating" in single player games. Yes, It's my game and I don't feel bad at all when I use the console to add mats to my inventory because I hate material grinding. Doing that is not my definition of fun. But, making myself more powerful so early in the game just because I was feeling frustrated last night and was so tired of doing the early quests for the 20th time kinda ruined it for me and I felt bad about it. It's what prompted me to start this topic last night - I was very curious as to how others felt if they did. I know that there are people out there that don't care and will cheat and or go "God Mode" and it really doesn't bother them at all. Why do I feel the guilt? Perhaps because I don't like cheaters in MMOs and that transgressed over to single player games.

 

I played FFVIII like crazy. NO BOOING FROM SOME OF YOU OUT THERE! FF FANS ALL HAVE OUR FAVORITE FINAL FANTASY GAME! When I beat the game several times over I read online that one could have all but one player's epic weapons in disk one simply by exploiting Triple Triad. For those of you that don't know what that is it's an in-game mini card game. I was obsessed with TT. So that's what I did. I played hundreds of hours of TT, while having fun, converting those cards to the necessary materials I needed, and all but one character had their end-game weapons super early on in the game. Cheating? Exploit? I didn't care. I had already beaten the game the regular way. So I get why some of you say that you don't cheat until after you've beaten the game.

 

Multiplayer: Absolutely agree with you 100%! As mentioned above, I really, really hated MMO cheaters. People that bought their characters, paid others to max out their characters with epic gear, so on and so forth. What is the point? They miss all the content, jump into a dungeon or raid group and not know what the hell they're doing, mess everything up for everyone because they bought their player on Ebay, and don't know the first thing about playing their class! (End of rant.) The same applies for botters and people that buy gold. I'll admit that on those last two, the thought was tempting. Again, I hate farming for mats and in some games, depending on what server you're on, the economy can be quite harsh and you see really OP items, gear, mounts, pets, etc. for sale in-game and if you don't have enough currency to buy said things, it can make a person feel really crappy. I chose "professions", in the MMOs I've played, that do not require me to gather materials and I'd buy them instead. One thing I have always been really good at was making in-game money. Sometimes I would spend hours on end just buying cheap and in bulk then breaking it off and selling off items that were high in demand at way higher prices. I made a fortune while fucking up my server's economy. I did not care nor did I feel guilty. I loved being rich in game and being able to buy whatever I wanted. To be fair, I always warned my guild mates when I was about to do something drastic economy-wise and always made large contributions to our guild bank. I'm a saint, I know.

 

Do I do the money cheat in Skyrim? Nope and I hate not having money. So I whore off my PC until she has enough to buy the weapons or spell tomes that she needs or whatever. Then again, isn't that cheating according to some if there is no prostitution option in the vanilla game? I have a mod that allows me to prostitute my character for gold. Yeah, I could just stick to side quests only but, I'm a proud member of Lovers Lab and I come here for sex mods that will spice up my game and allow me to indulge in my fetishes and if my character can make good money by shagging then that's exactly what I'm going to have her do.

 

Mod all you want. Play how you want.

 

I believe a lot of you make valid points. I've read what you all have posted and your feelings on whether a mod constitutes as a cheat. Some of you said "yes," others said "it depends," while the rest said "no". This is the grey area I suppose. I will actually sit here and tell people that if they want to download all the OP modded weapons and armor available or download from the "God Mode" section from the Nexus, then by all means do it. I'm not biased to what you want to do in your game. I was simply sharing something that happened to me last night and wanted to know how you all felt if YOU cheated in YOUR game. Just because I won't do or do something doesn't mean that I'm going to lecture you all or push my gaming "philosophies" on to you. We come here, to the Nexus, and other sites to download things to mod our games the way we want to. Almost everyone's preferences are different in regards to what types of mods they prioritize in their game. I've had people judge and even say harsh things to me because I heavily mod my game to look beautiful. I like a pretty looking game and if the majority of my mods are graphical and NPC overhauls then that's the way it is and screw you if you want to tell me otherwise.

 

***

 

Listen folks, I never intended for my simple question to turn into a back and forth argument of "what does it really mean to cheat." The last thing I wanted to do is open up a flood gate and have people get upset over others' opinions in regards to said subject. I've made my sentiments known, my feelings have not changed on what I did. It may be silly to some and no, I'm not going to flagellate myself over it or maybe I will because whipping is kinky. See! I made another reference to Catholicism. Maybe Content Consumer is right and I subconsciously do have a "religious upbringing problem" and I'm in total denial! (Joking, people.)  But, I digress. I'm not going to beat myself up over what happened in-game last night and act like it's the end of the world. I'll continue playing and having fun - just no more cheating for me.

 

I don't do hugs but, I think I can handle virtual ones. *Hugs* all around, Kumbaya, roasting marshmallows, and all that hippie peace stuff.

 

Love ya all! xoxo

[sp4rkfist]

Oh, just cheating at video game. The answer is no, I don't have lots of time anymore and I cheat several times to save my precious time.

 

I don't cheat at multiplayer games since I don't play any.

[MsOtaku]

Saw a few more new posts and I can't help myself...

 

 

 

I usually don't like to cheat at a game until I've beaten it at least once.  If it's extremely difficult, I take breaks from it until my frustration subsides.

Yes, this I agree with completely. Once I've beaten a game legitimately, I have no compunction about going back and just playing around with whatever cheats sound fun.

 

There is a fine line between some forms of cheating and game functions. For instance, it would be cheating to coc somewhere in Skyrim, but fast travel is a part of the game so it is, by definition, not cheating. Although I never fast travel because it kills immersion for me.

 

 

I completely agree with both of you. Again, perhaps another reason for my guilt trip.

 

By the way, jfraser, kudos on the Monty Python joke for the Diabella's Recruit quest in Divines Guide You! "Bridge Keeper." 

 

This may come as a shock to some but I never cheat. For Skyrim and Fallout 4 I was challenged by a friend to play without cheats. To make things even more exciting my friend challenged me to Fallout 4 on survival mode, which I thank her for as I am having fun.

 

Not a shock. I've joined in many game challenges. Some were a total pain and others were fun. But I stuck with it, dammit because I'm not a quitter!

 

I play to have fun, and if cheating's what's fun for the moment, go for it.

 

Well said! We all play like we want to. That would be the moral of this story here, I believe.

I'll give everyone a vote up for participating, being honest, and sharing opinions in this crazy thread of mine since I don't have cookies to hand out. xoxo

[Guest]

EDIT: I wish there was a cheat to advance in perk/skill level without leveling so I could feel like less of cheater when I'm in Riverwood and level 30....

 

There is actually such a thing for Skyrim. This mod called Skill Config. Works wonders and you can toggle if you want to level or not while manipulating the values. Hope its ported over to SSE in the future.

 

On the topic tho, I used to use God Mode a lot just so I can get through a game a bit quicker but at the same time it did get a bit boring. Eventually went away from doing that and just spawned in health/ammo/items where needed. There are even games that don't allow you to get achieves if you have console commands but there are ways around that ;-) .

[MsOtaku]

 

EDIT: I wish there was a cheat to advance in perk/skill level without leveling so I could feel like less of cheater when I'm in Riverwood and level 30....

 

There is actually such a thing for Skyrim. This mod called Skill Config. Works wonders and you can toggle if you want to level or not while manipulating the values. Hope its ported over to SSE in the future.

 

 

That looks interesting. I like that you can choose not to level. Thank you!

[Guest]

I'm usually not cheating in the games, but sometimes "God mod" and some other cheats are "Life saver" especially if I can't accomplish the task(s) or if I lose valuable and hardly gained experiences after being killed.

But, to answer the question, sometimes I do feel guilty when using cheats, sometimes I do not. It depends about my mood.

 

Some treasures in Skyrim are "unreachable" (to high or to far) . Is using "tcl" cheating?

[Brvtality]

First playthrough I'll go legit. And unless there is a bug or something I usually try to abstain from the console commands.

After that I'm just playing to try different things, and will console all day long. Especially with modding, sometimes there will

be broken scripts or something will be hard to find so instead of digging around looking for answers I'll just see if I can

console my way out of it. Usually setstage. Bums me out a little when I have to because it breaks immersion but it happens.

[SteamPoweredLain]

 

 

I don't mind if people do it since after all it's your game but honestly why play at all if you don't want challenge or adversity to keep your brain on?

 

There's this concept called "zen games" that I think is kind of new. At least, I haven't heard about it until very recently. Anyway, it's a game you play when you want to zone out for a bit and just chill without having any specific demands on your time. Kind of like a cigarette, I guess. Only not as fulfilling. 

 

A lot of people play Minecraft as their "zen game." Some people sew, some do origami, that kind of thing. I play a lot of tetris, particularly when I'm thinking about something and need a physical distraction while my brain gels on the topic at hand. If there was a cheat code to ensure that the blocks all fall at the same rate no matter how long I've been playing, I'd use it in a heartbeat.

 

Different people play games for different reasons. Challenge, adversity, or "keeping your brain on" are only a few reasons to play a game.

 

 

I love those games and Skyrim is certainly that at times depending on my mod setup. It's still an open-world action RPG at heart though so I find there are better alternatives for zen games elsewhere. Don't currently have one but I played a clicker called Forget Me Not: My Organic Garden not long ago that hit the spot for zen gaming and micromanagement fun. 

[NickNozownik]

I don't. I usually use Skill Tweak/Menu mod or 4x faster skill gain to avoid long and boring grinding. Gathering materials for Heartfire home is too tedious, so I'll just spawn a shitload of them through console. I hate the main quest in Skyrim, so every mod that requires completing any part of it = console commands.

Playing Morrowind with 30-40 speed, 10 athletics and heavy equipment is a fucking nightmare. I don't feel guilty for setting both spd and athletics to 100.

 

Only cheating in Total War games ruins the experience. And by cheating I mean editing the game files so your peasants have 50 attack, 10hp and 255 defense. It gets boring really quickly when you can easily wipe out the entire nation with a single group of dirty peasants. Money cheats are completely fine, since AI also gets around 5000 gold per turn out of nowhere because it's too stupid to expand without it.

 

Making stupidly overpowered weapons in Cortex Command is actually quite fun.

[Vaelorian]

There is no such thing as "cheating" in a single player.

Your characters, the NPCs, the entire god-darn world around them - they don't exist before you start, they won't exist after. When you're bored, they're done. You'll go elsewhere for laughter.

 

As for those asking: "Why play a game if you don't actually want to play it?"

That would be a very good question, if not for the fact that most games include more than one mechanic, and not every single person in existence has to enjoy every single mechanic in a game.

 

If someone wants to mod in guns to Skyrim and use eight different ones old-school-shooter style, should he be called a "cheater" for increasing his carry limit so he can hold them all?

Or perhaps if someone finds harvesting boring, or thinks it just makes the game world uglier and doesn't want to do it, should he feel bad about using the console to add in a bunch of ingredients?

If someone wants to play a Lichdom:Battlemage style wizard (that is, no mana costs) should he feel bad about it?

 

No, it's a single-player. You want something, get it. Make it. Alter it to fit your taste. Everything is there for YOU.

While playing a single-player game, you are the only one that matters, and your enjoyment is first and foremost, whether you find it by overcoming challenges, using adult mods or just playing the story and skipping all the fighting and gathering.

[Guest]

Seven Hells! What have I started?! Way too many people to quote, sorry I can't quote you all, and things to address. I'll do my best. Also, not all my replies to quotes are directed at that specific person I have quoted, some are meant for everyone that has posted here.

 

You guysh are grape when you're drunk.

Seriously cogent and (what's a synonym meaning "smart").

Today you just got home from church and you can't remember writing in this thread,

and you're probably thinking "OMG did I say that??"

But you spelled perfectly, you didn't lose your head, and you read stuff, I'm so jealous.

 

Wine....I remember wine.

 

Will you be told of in stories?

  Will you curse future generations?

   or will you forget...

    Let your wind be your guide

     Your future lies before you ,end scene. 

 

Oh, billiedovahin. I laughed so much when I read this! I'm proud to say I handle my liquor very well, never get hangovers, and 99.9% of the time recall what I did the night before. And no, I would not be coming back from church. I may have been raised in a strict Catholic home but, I am not a religious person. One might call me Agnostic. Plus I may be banned from all Christian-based houses of worship since that one time I visited the Vatican, crawled up the walls, and began speaking in reverse Latin.

 

 

Love ya all! xoxo

Forums is so pointless without people like you.

 

[MsOtaku]

 

Forums is so pointless without people like you.

 

 

Awwww! You melted that block of ice in my chest that I call a heart. xoxo

[GimmeBACON]

You guysh are grape when you're drunk.

Seriously cogent and (what's a synonym meaning "smart").

Today you just got home from church and you can't remember writing in this thread,

and you're probably thinking "OMG did I say that??"

But you spelled perfectly, you didn't lose your head, and you read stuff, I'm so jealous.

 

Just read this... People don't slur their words while typing drunk; also, when I'm typing drunk, I re-read shit like ten times to make sure I don't fuck up to bad.

[MsOtaku]

 

.... when I'm typing drunk, I re-read shit like ten times to make sure I don't fuck up to bad.

 

 

I do the exact same thing. It takes me like an hour to send out a short email if I'm hammered. I have to make sure everything is right.

 

And I believe you meant to say, "too."

[iCallisto]

I usually only cheat in games when it comes to money. Like, in Skyrim I almost always cheat with the console to get enough Septims to buy Breezehome as soon as possible, because not having a player home kind of sucks and I happen to like Breezehome. In the Sims I always cheat with money because it is horribly boring to play that game unless you can afford everything you could possibly want. At least it is to me. I don't like grinding for money, so I always cheat to get it. To me playing games is less about grinding for rewards (like money or items) and more about the experience, and living life as a pauper in-game kind of takes the fun out of it.

 

Overall though, I never feel guilty about cheating in games. It's kind of like save scumming I guess. We "cheat" so the game becomes either less tedious or we get the experience to be how we want it, but not how the game devs may have wanted it to be. I mean, what are mods? No matter how "lore friendly" they may be they don't belong in the game. It is not a part of the Vanilla experience, but we use them because it tailors the game to our personal tastes and thus makes the game more fun. That's how I see it.

[Guest]

Only cheating when you're hammered, fun minus guilt.

If you obsess endlessly after drinking so as not to obsess,

it becomes a cycle of despair.(You feel guilty about obsessing about your cheating peccadillos, so you drink to forget, and obsess twice over.)

 

Like that word I just typed, "Peccadillos", is it cheating to pretend I know exactly what it means and how to spell it,

or does everyone just assume I cheat if I dare to use it?

I need a drink.