FO3 fixes: Anyone intersted in making FO3 not suck ?

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Basically, FO3 had a LOT of little things wrong with it.

Here is my take on how to fix a few of them.

Also: As I myself can't mod, I figured Id post here and see if anyone were interested in assisting.

 

 

Ok here is what I'm thinking........ (none of this applies to energy weapons, rocket launchers, flamers, etc, and may not fully apply to mele weapons)

 

Unless there is a way to implement armor types (IE: JHP/FMJ, etc) treat it like all ammo is one basic type that a few places in the wasteland make (but you never see, because bethesda forgot to add any nessacary signs of industry)

 

 

From there, each ammo type gets a basic listing of stats that effect the weapons (IE: a gun is only as good as it's ammo) with the difference being that the weapon can affect the range/accuracy of the ammo

So all guns using the same ammo type would have a similar base damage per shot.

 

Past that, adjust prices.

In FO3 nothing costs over 1k that I can recall, even power armor has a base value of 1k. I'd adjust those, make better stuff MUCH more expensive (but also make selling random loot off of raiders potentially much more lucrative).

Also, change it so condition of the item has a much lower effect on the price (or remove it entirely if easier)

 

For energy weapons, I would make the ammo reusable. Each time you shoot, the expended round puts an empty battery in your inventory, and they can be resold for a very low price, and some locations will be assumed to recharge and resell them.

This changes the whole process of using energy weapons, and makes it a high startup cost, but more efficent over time when you can sell your old ammo (or possibly recharge it yourself with fusion batteries)

 

 

For armor, biggest change would be to make NO armor lootable off of bodies. If the guy died in it, it is shot full of holes, instead you get scrap parts of that armor which can be used in repairs or sold. For power armor, you can get random parts (hydraulics, power generator, etc) which can be used in repairs or sold for a much higher price than normal armor scrap.

 

Past that, if possible, script all armors to use FO/FO2 type stats (AC/DT/DR) or try to emulate them in some way.

Basically, make most small guns not be that useful against better armor, and it would make fighting power armor with lower quality weapons futile, as they lack the ability to penetrate the armor.

 

Now, the biggest overall change will be for continuity purposes (and likely require making this be a mod of a preexisting mod to make it easier, or getting premessions to use content other modders made).

Basically, one of the (many) flaws of FO3 was in how they took the guns and other items from FO/FO2..... and ignored them.

The laser/plasma weapons are one good example of this, or the gauss rifle... or even some of the meds like Psycho.

Basically, change this stuff to where it should be.

For missing items, get them from other mods (with premession) or take a mod that re-adds a large ammount and use that as the base for the mod (FWE would be one good possibility as it readds most missing content).

In the case of vanilla FO3 items that replaced FO/FO2 weapons (laser/plasma weapons, gauss rifle, etc) the FO3 version will remain as an alternate version (IE: FO3 laser/plasma weapons could be older model versions).

 

But yeah, anyone interested in working on this ?

If I could get a modder committed to assisting but low on time, I'd be more than willing to spreadsheet all the new stats myself even (which I'll probally end up doing anyway admitedly)

[Guest Loogie]

Unless the horrible dialog and nonsensical storyline can get fixed, there's really no hope for improving Fallout 3.

[deathparade]

I don't think scrap metal is logical really i mean i aim for the face but anyway!

 

+1 to Loogie although that storyline sucked and they had a robot walk through a city without it doing actually anything which was a real turn off

 

i'd say i have to agree with Loogie and kinda with the OP!

[Evilrunner]

In FO3 nothing costs over 1k that I can recall' date=' even power armor has a base value of 1k.

[/quote']

 

That's something that's always bugged me actually in Fallout, not the cost of things but more the whole idea of caps as currency. It's probably the most ridiculous and impractical currency system ever thought up. There's an item in New Vegas that costs 12,000 caps. This is what 12k caps looks like, you'd need a wheelbarrow to move that sort of cash about.

 

 

Just something to think about really with expensive items. The whole faction money in new vegas seemed a much better system, but the money itself was only any good for just selling for caps.

[Guest Loogie]

Caps was funny and sort of understandable in Fallout 1. In Fallout 2 they used gold dollar NCR coins because of gold's intrinsic value - caps were regarded as the old way of doing things and had no value. I am shocked and bewildered they used them in Fallout 3, across the country and with no sense behind it.

 

In New Vegas they at least try to justify it - Brotherhood of Steel destroyed the NCR gold reserves, leading to the NCR printing paper money and backing it with drinking water instead of gold. People went running back to the traditional security of caps after that.

[dogface]

1. Ammo types

This could be done, but it would be massively time consuming and a drain on system resources, probably leading to lag. You'd be far better off getting one of the FNV/FO3 combination mods and using the FNV ammo type system.

 

1. Damage by caliber

This is simple. If you're planning to spreadsheet the damage ratings yourself, take a quick look at how FO3Edit works, and you'll soon realise that you can make this change yourself just as easily as making a spreadsheet. Simply load Fallout3.esm in FO3Edit, expand the weapons records, right-click on one (10mm pistol, for example) and Copy as Override to a new file (name it what you want), then edit the damage value yourself. Then right-click the 10mm submachinegun in Fallout3.esm, copy as override into your new file, and change it's damage. Repeat with all other weapons you want to change the damages for. PM me if you get stuck anywhere.

 

3. Adjusting prices

Try out Arwen's Realism Tweaks, there are some huge changes to pricing and bartering along the lines of what you want.

 

4. Energy ammo recharging

This looks possible, but again would be easier using a FNV/FO3 combo mod so you can use FNVs spent casing system. I'll play around with the GECK and let you know if I figure out a way of doing it for FO3.

 

5. Armour changes

Emulating the FO style is probably impossible without using FNV's system of DR/DT. As for scavenging parts, this makes sense for combat armours and the like, where the ceramic inserts are generally shattered by gunfire and have to be replaced, but for leather, metal, etc. doesn't the current system already assume you're taking a shot-up leather armour and using it as patchworks to repair another? I think a better system might be to have armour keep its AC no matter how damaged it is, but as condition drops, increase the chance of bullets completely ignoring AC (ie, hitting an already damaged spot in the armour). I don't know if this is possible or not. As for scavenging power armour, check out FOOK2, they already disable all power-armour people are killed in, making it usable only for repair.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Loogie, I agree, that is why I heavily mod the game because any 'GOTY' RPG is sure to be over hyped shit (if bethsoft makes it)

 

 

dogface:

1- For ammo types, would it be possible to add a selector tool that switches ALL weapons (or a selected weapon) between different ammo types ? Otherwise, this can be skipped easily enough.

2- Well, Im really considering having this just be a rebalance of FWE since that mod turns vanilla weapons into underpowerd currencey but is otherwise good.

3- Sounds good, but a search for that name on nexus doesn't appear, is it there or where ?

4- Well no biggie but I figure it won't be THAT hard since nuka cola drops a cap/bottle when you drink it.

5- NV style IS the FO style (or as close as possible). NV is as close to the true FO3 as we will get, since the NV team included many of the old FO devs.

As for the resistences, yeah I doubt it's fully possible. FO3 just sucks that hard.

Im more and more tempted to risk buying NV even though my PC likely won't handle it.

 

That or just troll teh fuck out of the bethsoft forums like I did way back when they first got the rights for the FO series.

I wonder if I can get them to disable avatars again.

[KainsChylde]

From my personal experience, NV will run on computers that can't run FO3.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Oh really ?

 

Ok, now Im going to fucking get NV.

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

From my personal experience' date=' NV will run on computers that can't run FO3.

[/quote']

 

wut

 

And I seriously don't get the hate for FO3. Maybe because I didn't grow up with the older games and don't have a massive nostalgia boner.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

From my personal experience' date=' NV will run on computers that can't run FO3.

[/quote']

 

wut

 

And I seriously don't get the hate for FO3. Maybe because I didn't grow up with the older games and don't have a massive nostalgia boner.

 

FO3 has virtually nothing to do with the previous games in the series.

 

However, as there were two previous spinoffs, the 3 obviously stands for third spinoff.

 

The issue is made worse by the fact that bethesda sucks balls at making RPGs, and has a very long history of lying their asses off about the games.

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

Oh, so because it doesn't take place near the west coast, it must clearly suck.

 

That's seriously the message I get from Fallout fans. 1, 2 and NV are all near the west coast and they're the "good" ones, whereas Tactics, Brotherhood of Steel and 3 aren't and they're the "bad" ones that suck. And yet, save for not playing Brotherhood, I've enjoyed every Fallout game made.

[New User]

I've only played FO3 and NV, not 1 and 2. I guess I got no major complaints about either of those games, but I'd dare say NV is better because it's basically a very polished and much less glitchy FO3 in the West, needless to say that NV's main quest makes more sense than FO3's.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[KainsChylde]

I've enjoyed every Fallout game, and I've played all of them except Brotherhood of Steel. The dislike for other games has nothing to do with them being away from the West Coast.

 

Tactics is disliked by Fallout purists because of how it handles the Brotherhood. The xenophobic tech-centric group is now suddenly not only recruiting tribals, but ghouls and muties too?

 

Brotherhood, from what I heard, took everything Fallout and took a blender to it or some such. Dunno, didn't play it.

 

Personally I thought 3 handled the Brotherhood well. Their reason for being on the East Coast was, in my opinion, a good one. The elder going soft and the Outcasts splitting off too stick to the mission was logical. They just rushed the story a bit. I'm sure I'm gonna get ridiculed, but thats how I feel. But from a general gameplay standpoint the story was a bit screwwy. Others have covered these issues well and I'm not gonna rehash them. Suffice it to say that, for purists who've played the original games, 3 was obviously outsiders taking a stab at cannon and missing.

 

NV is loved by oldschool fallout fans because it was made, in part, by oldschool fallout devs. People who knew the lore because they made the lore.

[Dmouse52]

I kind of prefer FO3 to NV mostly because of the graphics (how shallow I must be)seems to be much grittier and have much less "bendy" characters and seems to me the raiders are better textured and more menacing. the centaurs in FO3 are bitches to kill but no so much in NV. As for weapons the classic fallout weapons mod tends to make for a better game. not ever played the Fallout1&2 games so the "lore" idea is a bit lost on me

[Rogue13]

I am an 'old school' Fallout fan. There are many of us who like Fallout 3.

 

Fallout 1 was great ( and cool and fun). The story was great, the suprise ending gutsy.

Fallout 2 was even better. Good story and a bit more edgy.

Fallout Tactics was very good. People didn't like it because it was squad based and more linear. But it was a good game.

Fallot 3 is terrific. The story is pure Fallout and the world, especially the city, is gritty, dangerous and feels post-apoclyptic.

Fallout New Vegas, while fun, is probably the weakest (barring Brotherhood of Steel) in the series (story and lore wise). But still a decent game.

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

Tactics is disliked by Fallout purists because of how it handles the Brotherhood. The xenophobic tech-centric group is now suddenly not only recruiting tribals' date=' but ghouls and muties too?

[/quote']

 

That's the while reason they're out there; they were a splinter group that wanted to open the Brotherhood up to more people. So it fits, and there are even members who voice the fact that they don't like the idea of Ghouls, Super Mutants and intelligent Deathclaws being a part of this new faction.

 

I'm more surprised you didn't mention the idea of the Vault they were looking for not fitting into the Vault-Tec experiments.

[KainsChylde]

If you're referring to Vault One, its explained in-game why that vault differed so wildly from ordinary vaults. Vault-Tech may be insane, but they aren't stupid.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Oh' date=' so because it doesn't take place near the west coast, it must clearly suck.

 

That's seriously the message I get from Fallout fans. 1, 2 and NV are all near the west coast and they're the "good" ones, whereas Tactics, Brotherhood of Steel and 3 aren't and they're the "bad" ones that suck. And yet, save for not playing Brotherhood, I've enjoyed every Fallout game made.

[/quote']

 

No, the coast has nothing to do with it, they're just inferior.

 

Actually a properlly done Fallout game set in a new location would be pretty fucking great.

 

 

I've only played FO3 and NV' date=' not 1 and 2. I guess I got no major complaints about either of those games, but I'd dare say NV is better because it's basically a very polished and much less glitchy FO3 in the West, needless to say that NV's main quest makes more sense than FO3's.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[/quote']

 

 

 

And this further reinforces my point.

 

The spinoffs have ALL been glitchy (even the xbox spinoff that sank interplay) however bethesda has a HISTORY of being glitchy.

 

Not the series, the people that make the game.

 

That is a big factor, where the people that made NV included some of the old FO devs too.

 

 

 

I've enjoyed every Fallout game' date=' and I've played all of them except Brotherhood of Steel. The dislike for other games has nothing to do with them being away from the West Coast. [/quote']

 

Indeed, the console spinoff was a totally fucking retarded idea.

 

It was also part of what sank interplay.

 

Tactics is disliked by Fallout purists because of how it handles the Brotherhood. The xenophobic tech-centric group is now suddenly not only recruiting tribals' date=' but ghouls and muties too?[/quote']

 

Now, I've bashed Fallout Craptics my fair share of (a fucking lot of) times, however I've got to set the record straight.....

 

1- It's not the midwest BoS. Given their circumstances, it makes sense. It's the whole setting, what with all the modern shit replacing the retro 50's setting that was part of the first games as well as a mix of other issues (such as it's not being a RPG).

What it comes down to is interplay was ran by a frenchman who had no fucking clue how to run a buisness at that point, and he decided that a game whose whole appearance (and many aspects of the plot at times) were designed to resemble a world in which 50's retro was back in style, all of the design aspects were amazingly done to resemble that.

The problem was that the game was sent to australia for devolpment.

They tried, I'll give them that, the game is good on its own, but as part of the fallout series, it just has minimal resemblence.

 

Brotherhood' date=' from what I heard, took everything Fallout and took a blender to it or some such. Dunno, didn't play it.[/quote']

 

All that and more. It was an extremly buggy xbox game.

Interplay decided to make it their christmas release, the most important buisness product of their year.

It was so important that they even canceld Fallout 3 for it.

It wasn't finished and on the shelves until febuary, and interplay suddenly was fucked.

 

Personally I thought 3 handled the Brotherhood well. Their reason for being on the East Coast was' date=' in my opinion, a good one. The elder going soft and the Outcasts splitting off too stick to the mission was logical. [/quote']

 

Execpt you never see any sign of their presence, other than dead bodies, etc, in downtown DC, or live ones standing guard and never doing anything.

Why no sign of their presence even, I mean fuck the occasional outpost, or some Paladins in a town helping out with something, or just on patrol killign raiders and mutants ?

 

And also, why the fuck are they calling so many soldiers knights, in FO1 it was clear that knights were their enginers who designed shit.

Oh, wait, the FO lore is disposable to bethesda.

 

They just rushed the story a bit.

 

a BIT ?

Dude' date=' they skipped most of the story, and just had big gunfights and pretty explosions, fact is the game lacked any real logically based setting even.

 

I mean fuck howcome absolutley zero attempt to rebuild anywhere ?

How do the places that do exist live, I mean they would have ran out of lootable food nearby a long time ago.

 

You pretty much never see farms, and there isn't even bhraman domestication execpt in the republic of dave and arefu, and it's like 3-4 cows at each location. How the fuck do they live.

Hell, how do they have ammo, no sign of anyone refilling rounds.

 

Suffice it to say that, for purists who've played the original games, 3 was obviously outsiders taking a stab at cannon and missing.

 

Miss would imply they intended to try.

 

NV is loved by oldschool fallout fans because it was made' date=' in part, by oldschool fallout devs. People who knew the lore because they made the lore.

[/quote']

 

 

 

 

Yeah pretty much fucking dead on the point.

 

As for weapons the classic fallout weapons mod tends to make for a better game. not ever played the Fallout1&2 games so the "lore" idea is a bit lost on me

 

Um' date=' why should one DL a 'classic' weapons pack for a Fallout RPG ?

The world was nuked, there are no new guns.

That means that what you see is what you get.

 

 

I am an 'old school' Fallout fan. There are many of us who like Fallout 3.

Ah, but if I quote Fallout by asking if you like to play Roshambo, do you think of a particular website ?

 

Also replying to what I disagree with.

 

 

 

Fallout Tactics was very good. People didn't like it because it was squad based and more linear. But it was a good game.

 

Agreed it was a good game' date=' however it was disliked for many reasons, from the bugs to the way they utterly butcherd the setting.

 

As a Fallout game, it failed.

As a fun standalone, great.

 

Fallot 3 is terrific.

O'rly?

 

The story is pure Fallout

Oh wow' date=' I just coughed (and laughed) hard.

A Fallout story implies it was not designed to appeal to console kiddies, but require actual thought.

 

Well aside from thought on all the things they halfassed or fucked up.

 

 

 

the world, especially the city, is gritty, dangerous and feels post-apoclyptic.

 

Quit saying gritty, you sound like gaming mags after bethesda bought the rights and suddenly Fallout was getting press.

 

And no it doesn't feel post apoc.

 

It feels random destroyed stuff, no attempt to rebuild, and generally flat and extremly bland.

 

 

Fallout New Vegas' date=' while fun, is probably the weakest (barring Brotherhood of Steel) in the series (story and lore wise). But still a decent game.

[/quote']

 

 

 

Actually, a good bit of the NV plot is a direct copy of the final canceled version of FO3 that interplay devolped.

Furthermore the plot at least makes sense, I mean the FO3 plot has so many fuckign holes in it I don't know where to start.

[iron_jack]

I've always felt FO3 was a very fun game, so long as you treat it like a standalone game loosely based on the Fallout universe.

 

 

The story was terrible, the ending was terrible, most of the NPCs were terrible, very little made any sort of sense.

 

But if you play it like a shmup with char-building, it's a blast.

[Kashked]

I've always felt FO3 was a very fun game' date=' so long as you treat it like a standalone game [i']loosely [/i]based on the Fallout universe.

 

 

The story was terrible, the ending was terrible, most of the NPCs were terrible, very little made any sort of sense.

 

But if you play it like a shmup with char-building, it's a blast.

 

Well, being a player who played FO3 withouth any previous experience of the Fallout universe I gotta agree. I was expecting "Oblivion with guns" and that is what I got, and I was pretty happy with that.

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

How does NV have a good story? Granted, when you're tracking Benny the story is alright; it's a simple revenge plot. But after that? The whole plot to back the NCR, Legion, House or go independent comes out of fucking NOWHERE.

 

Why would the Courier want to get involved, much less care? Benny is taken care of, the job is complete, and NV doesn't exactly do a good job of pushing any faction on you during your quest to track down the jackass that shot you. If you're simply running through the main quest at the time, you've had one contact with the Legion when they burned Nipton and one contact with the NCR at Boulder City. Neither of them really does much to sway you to their side, or against them.

 

Atleast in Fallout 3, you can say you're honoring the memory of your father and the dream of your parents in general by trying to get Project Purity to both work and get it back from the Enclave. In NV, you have no motivation at all to meddle in the destiny of the Mojave.

 

Also, I found it fucking ridiculous the way you get a PIP-Boy in NV. In both 1 and 3, you're a Vault dweller, you have one by default. Hell, I can buy it in 2 because you're the descendant of the original Vault Dweller. Tactics... no reason at all was given for it; you just have one so don't question it. Even though I will because goddamnit, shit makes no sense.

 

But in NV, you just so happen to have been taken care of by a doctor who came from a Vault who then, for no reason at all, just decides that you should get the one he had to help you on your revenge quest.

 

Fallout 1 and 2 are BETTER than 3 and even NV. I freely admit that I love those games a Hell of a lot more than any game that came after them; HOWEVER, 1 and 2 do not lend themselves well to people who just want to jump in and have fun. Skills play a far more critical role, and until you get them up, it's a struggle at times to do anything. The very nature of 1 makes it hard to really just kick back and causally play the game because, even though they removed the time limit until the game instantly ends, to get any of the better endings you have to run through it.

 

Fallout 2 is much more open ended, but until you reach end game, it's not something you can just jump into whenever you want, play for a bit and then put it down. NV and 3, on the other hand, are games you can pick up, play, have a blast in and put them down again.

[deathparade]

As iam reading that and i personally never played FO1/FO2 This is FO3: you live in a vault where nothing is allowed than WORK WORK! than you come out of that thing AND ALL OF THE SUDDEN YOU KNOW HOW TO DISABLE A NUCLEAR BOMB! And properly use every weapon you find!

[Rogue13]

Hey there kashwaba,

 

thanks for your thoughts.

 

I like to share a few more with you.

 

For me, Fallout 1 was about a man (or woman), an ordinary Vault Dweller who, in order to save his community and untimately his world, sacrificed himself for a greater good. In the course of accomplishing his quest he grew and he lost his innocenence. In the end, he even lost, or was barred from the community he set out to save. This is the kind of stuff that the greatest stories are made of. This is pretty epic. This is Lord of the rings type stuff.

 

Fallout 2, was about the direct tribal decendant of the of this Vault Dweller, who also, in order to save his community and untimately his world, sacrificed himself for a greater good. He also grew and he lost his innocenence. Still strong theme of self-sacrifice. Still pretty epic stuff. This is Star Wars type stuff.

 

Fallout Tactics, while a fun game, was not the same type of game.

 

Fallout 3, was about another Vault Dweller, who ultimately takes on the task to save the world (at least the part he knows). Still strong theme of self-sacrifice for greater good for both character and his father. Still pretty epic stuff. Let's call this Seven Samurai type stuff.

 

Fallout NV, was about a Courier (what?) who survives being shot point blank in the forehead with a .45. Who seeks revenge on the guy who shot him. Not really very Fallout-esqe or at all epic. Let's call it Diehard type stuff ( i.e. still good but not really important).

 

I think I'd feel the same way if the next Elder Scrolls game after Skyrim had the player character be a mailman and the main quest be to track down the guy who stabbed him and stole his horse.

 

Looking forward to hearing your and anyone else's thoughts.

 

cheers,

R13.

[prideslayer]

 

Fallout NV' date=' was about a Courier (what?) who survives being shot point blank in the forehead with a .45. Who seeks revenge on the guy who shot him. Not really very Fallout-esqe or at all epic. Let's call it Diehard type stuff ( i.e. still good but not really important).

[/quote']

 

I feel exactly the same. It doesn't matter to me that FONV is more adherent to lore, or that the quality of writing is overall better, because the story itself is not compelling. Jerry Springer would not be made more compelling if everyone on the show were speaking shakespeares' english.

 

So I'm content to play FO3 largely without 'immersive' mods due to the good story, no matter the lore or poor writing of the story, whereas I need worldwide immersive mods for FONV to have any interest in playing it past killing Benny.

 

I think I'd feel the same way if the next Elder Scrolls game after Skyrim had the player character be a mailman and the main quest be to track down the guy who stabbed him and stole his horse.

 

I feel exactly the same way about Skyrim and Oblivion as I do about FONV. They both start you off as a random prisoner with no stake at all in the story. You're freed and then told "you need to go (save the world)!" In both games absolutely no motivation for you to even start the main quest is given, and so, I haven't followed the story for either one beyond my escape.

 

For all you know you ARE a mailman, imprisoned for not collecting the kings tax stamps on the mail you deliver. Both games I only bought "for the sex." Oblivion so I could get ideas and stuff for sexout from lovers, and skyrim with the hope (now abandoned) of porting sexout.