Modding Question: Same armor for 2 different bodies?

Kiret · April 20, 2017

I will admit I am not quite the expert on modding but something that has always bugged me is that if I like an armor/clothing I'd like to put on two different characters there is only one body type to fit them.

Lately I've ben experimenting with Custom Races to use a variety of body types but I've always wondered if there is a way for me to get the same armor but have to separate versions each designed for a different body (as in armor for x body and armor for y body as two separate items or something like that).

(And speaking of custom races, is there a way for me to 'duplicate' a race (ie CustomNord) for more body options and whatnot?

azoth1267 · April 20, 2017

afaik it can be/has been done, i assumed that was mostly the point behind the custom races and what not.

No idea how to go about it aside from simple crap like changing file paths in xedit and what not, but i think there is quite a bit more needed to get it actually working right.

As i said though, there are mods (most are private ill bet) doing just that already afaik, if you are looking to reinvent the wheel so to speak, have a look at them for inspiration.

*Gameplayer* · April 20, 2017

I will admit I am not quite the expert on modding but something that has always bugged me is that if I like an armor/clothing I'd like to put on two different characters there is only one body type to fit them.

Lately I've ben experimenting with Custom Races to use a variety of body types but I've always wondered if there is a way for me to get the same armor but have to separate versions each designed for a different body (as in armor for x body and armor for y body as two separate items or something like that).

(And speaking of custom races, is there a way for me to 'duplicate' a race (ie CustomNord) for more body options and whatnot?

There is of course a way to get NPC's to have different bodies and get armors to respect that as well.

What I will cover however may not be what you want.

Every visible body, NPC, monster, outfit, armor, and basically everything relating to physical character bodies has an entry in the game.

"ArmorAA"

Now understand that "ArmorAA" in the case to this thread relates to "female bodies" and "female armors"

An example of Bethsada Games Studio actually having a 'body by race' is already in the games Skyrim.ESM in regards to ArmorAA with respect to the following

Beast Races and "Helmets"

Yes helmets, most readily easy to see immediate example of a by race armor change built right into the game.

Example Hide Helmet, is different on Humans/elves compared to Beast Races such as Kajiit/Argonian and even sometimes Orc's with some helmets.

ArmorAA also controls armor appearance by sex, which you have already seen by now but perhaps did not understand that it was in fact the ArmorAA entry that controlled this and contains entry pathing for what mesh to use.

Basically what Im getting at is that there is already a very easy route to use to create a Body by Race module and in fact there are "Body by Race" mods.

The key drawback has been that for the most part only the vanilla selection of armor is usually completed if at all for such mods. In some cases the end-users are expected to do all of their own assembling of said content from whatever sources they find on the internet.

Back to ArmorAA,

We can basically route each race and sex for a total of 16 different meshes for each armor.

The same can be done for all bodies.

The issues become that the player will of course want each "female race" to have a different body.

This means altering the "RACE" data, which then means that compatibility patches will have to then be made for modules that alter "RACE"

Example of such modules that alter "RACE"

Disparity

SBF All in One (female follower overhaul)

PCEA original

Some Overhauls like Requiem.

Of course that may not seem like a huge hurdle but the next hurdle is a fairly big leap.

Where do you get permission for all the armor to be used in such a module?

Do you expect others to make it for you?

Anyway if your in such a position that isn't an issue than the next hurdle becomes this.

Say I was to take my module, "The Book of UUNP"

It has 1.6 GIG's of armor, all of it fitted to one size fits all races.

Now lets say I want 3 sizes.

Now that bumps it up to around 4.5 GIG's.

Of course I would then be expected to provide the default vanilla armor in 3 sizes, the female bodies in 3 sizes, and well clothes too.

So it might be around 7 GIGs of space required for such a module that supports 3 separate bodies of females.

There is of course the time involved in just creating all the new ArmorAA entries.

If your making plus 2 ArmorAA's that's going to run about 800plus new entries just for "Book of UUNP"

Plus all the new pathing folders for the added entries.

Propogation is then actually the least time consuming part of this exercise.

_____________________________________

I've put a lot of thought into this and have even done it back in 2012 with Basvanbee's Mesh and Texture changer.

It was really cool, I guess even fun at the time.

But its a whole lot of work even just for the 50 odd armor items of vanilla gear.

______________________________________

I think it would be even more cool if someone figured out how to use the Bodyslide Morph "TRI" file to dynamically apply a body preset from UUNP to the races as they appear.

Thing is I doubt that anyone is going to do that, it may just be too much script overhead for the game to handle, or no one has put enough thought into it yet.

___________________________________

In my example of how to make armor and bodies change for "Vanilla Races"

I did not cover if the module would actually be compatible at all for "Unique Player Race", by this I actually mean the zillion downloadable modules that players tend to use over "Vanilla Races"

Example would be "Temptress Race"

Now of course the number one question will be can such a module support said race and would said armor selection even work for said race?

The game uses an entry in the "ArmorAA" called "DefaultPlayerRace" (Ussually Nord Race, not sure if it can be set otherwise for race mods likely it can)

So when an armor is put on by the player the ArmorAA is called up and the game immediately searches for "DefaultPlayerRace" unless the player is a Beast Race.

Basically yes a race module is compatible However.....the player is stuck with whatever body type the "DefualtPlayerRace" is attached to.

So now you would be dealing with.

"Can you make the 'defualtplayerrace" my preferred body type"?

><

Much work, likely small payoff.

As it already is my module "Book of UUNP" isn't as popular as I thought it would be and I always get, "When CBBE?"

Or XYZ other body type.

Also imagine my telling someone that they have to download upwards of 10 Gigs of files to have 3 or 4 different body types for all their female characters in the game.

orgs1n · April 20, 2017

Why not use the "zero sliders" approach for this?

- Generate the armors in BodySlide with all sliders set to zero and with Build Morphs checked on.

- Apply morphs to the NPC's via BodyGen.

- Apply morph to the PC via the Racemenu preset.

Each armor then morphs to whatever it's equipped on.

prakhan · April 20, 2017

I will admit I am not quite the expert on modding but something that has always bugged me is that if I like an armor/clothing I'd like to put on two different characters there is only one body type to fit them.

Lately I've ben experimenting with Custom Races to use a variety of body types but I've always wondered if there is a way for me to get the same armor but have to separate versions each designed for a different body (as in armor for x body and armor for y body as two separate items or something like that).

(And speaking of custom races, is there a way for me to 'duplicate' a race (ie CustomNord) for more body options and whatnot?

yep! can be done all of that

But keep in mind what gameplayer is saying

It would depends on the how many armors you want to do this too and how large you want this to be

just a couple of armors easy enough (back up your MOD also keep in mind this is how I do it there probably a better way or A RIGHT WAY but this works for me)

So something like this

Fire up ck, load the mod you want to work on.

original armor we will call A

your other body we can call B

find the original armor (A)

so change the name in the armor id entry/top box (cant have to armor with the same name)

add something to the description ,so you know in game. like idk body B

then head to the armoraddon(lower right box) double click it

Change the ID here too (I copy and paste the name I used in the armor with AA on the end/ no space)

go to the edit for male/female. Click edit for your sex. Change the path to the body type you want for the new armor ( so it links to that mesh

for body B usually the _1 mesh also if applicable the 1st person mesh as well.

Click ok / yes to new entry

back to the armor entry right click the armoraddon box {lower right side remember=) }

select new. A popup window will show up type in your new armoraddon name select that it should now show up in the box on your armor

Delete the old AA entry (highlight it then delete button)

Click ok/yes to new entry

At this point I save because its ck and it crashes alot.

then rinse and repeat for each one you need

As far as custom races it's basically the same thing

BUT

there more parts

and it can be a little frustrating

Atm i have 26 custom races /different body styles edited to that mod. So double the original mod, I think CEO (Osex guy) runs 132 races/body types

Each different body will require Armor for that body Kinda what Gameplayer was saying.

I think the readme in that mod (custom races) covers a lot of what you need to know

also if you use MO it's easy to create a overwrite for a play thru or a test

there also a few tutorials links on the custom race mod page

Disclaimer

I don't know anything

*Gameplayer* · April 21, 2017

Why not use the "zero sliders" approach for this?

- Generate the armors in BodySlide with all sliders set to zero and with Build Morphs checked on.

- Apply morphs to the NPC's via BodyGen.

- Apply morph to the PC via the Racemenu preset.

Each armor then morphs to whatever it's equipped on.

I follow the link, get hit by a wall of text,

My feeling on it is this.

No one has done any real work introducing the player base to this "Bodygen" system.

No one has really made it easy to introduce "Body by Race" under the Bodygen system.

The person that has done a whole fuck load of work to actually make it so a "Bodygen Body by Race System" could be a reality is people like who?

Oh that's right me, Gamefever.

So why cant those guys that developed the Bodygen system get their act together and make it simply Body By Race and packaged for plug in play already?

I have months of time wrapped up in UUNP, so where's a working Bodygen package that I could just Bundle up into the Book of UUNP and call it a day?

For real what was described on the link is not a simple snap of the fingers. Hell what I described above in previous post would actually be faster on end user by leagues than having each person read up on "Bodygen"

I just feel like someone else dropped the ball hard on this one.

If Bodygen is going to work and be popular it needs to have a simpler solution aka

Nord, Orc, Redguard = Sevenbase Bombshell, apply NPC weight slider per normal.

All Elves = UNP, apply weight slider per normal

Beast Races = UNPB, appy weight slider per normal.

The real issue is that I don't see "Bodygen" pulling through for me on that in an easy to apply way.

So that just leaves me with my solution which I know for fucks sake will work.

From what I read so far it looks like I have to have full weighted Preset Bodies which wont go over well, or have defined each and every single female NPC. IF I have to define every female NPC, even with a script that means that every module that said end-user adds to their game has to be re-run to have said morphs applied each time they want to mod a new module into the game.

That wont work.

There has to be an easier solution.

yatol · April 21, 2017

Why not use the "zero sliders" approach for this?

- Generate the armors in BodySlide with all sliders set to zero and with Build Morphs checked on.

- Apply morphs to the NPC's via BodyGen.

- Apply morph to the PC via the Racemenu preset.

Each armor then morphs to whatever it's equipped on.

why do something in 5 minutes when you cando it in 10 hours indeed (and probably fail)

but I've always wondered if there is a way for me to get the same armor but have to separate versions each designed for a different body (as in armor for x body and armor for y body as two separate items or something like that).

the easy way if you have no idea what you are doing

download custom armor mod z (just an armor, no quest or npc or whatever)

load tesedit (or crap kit if you want it the hard way)

go to armor x armor addon, copy nif path

go to armor z armor addon, paste nif path, add _y or \y\ or whatever you want

put the files for y body there

go to armor z armor, rename to whatever it is, add - y or _y or whatever you want

you want x body, equip iron armor

you want y body, equip iron armor - y

and if x is cbbe and y is unp

download bodychange

put whatever you use in folder 1

the rest in the other folders

and just switch to whatever body the armor is for

that don't come with a spell to switch npc bodies

Kiret · April 22, 2017

Thanks a lot for the insight guys, it appears there is quite some stuff for me to consider.

And it appears my question has triggered Gamefever a little bit, my apologies I did not mean to upset you, I really enjoy your work a lot actually.

orgs1n · April 22, 2017

So why cant those guys that developed the Bodygen system get their act together and make it simply Body By Race and packaged for plug in play already?

I have months of time wrapped up in UUNP, so where's a working Bodygen package that I could just Bundle up into the Book of UUNP and call it a day?

Unzip the attached BodyGen.7z into your Data folder (or into MO's overwrite folder, and give it its own mod).

BodyGen.7z

The effect. Randomized female bodies.

My randomization leaves out the extreme shapes such as She Hulk, UNPK... Feel free to add those yourself.

This will work with any UUNP armor, provided the meshes were generated with "Zeroed Sliders" preset and Build Morphs was checked on. I am using The Book of UUNP among others.

The same goes for the female body meshes: generate them in BodySlide with the zeroed sliders preset. Your PC's body of choice (7B, UNP....) must not be fixed in the body mesh but preset in RaceMenu. That is the whole idea behind BodyGen.

*Gameplayer* · April 22, 2017

So why cant those guys that developed the Bodygen system get their act together and make it simply Body By Race and packaged for plug in play already?

I have months of time wrapped up in UUNP, so where's a working Bodygen package that I could just Bundle up into the Book of UUNP and call it a day?

Unzip the attached BodyGen.7z into your Data folder (or into MO's overwrite folder, and give it its own mod).

BodyGen.7z

The effect. Randomized female bodies.

bodygen.jpg

My randomization leaves out the extreme shapes such as She Hulk, UNPK... Feel free to add those yourself.

This will work with any UUNP armor, provided the meshes were generated with "Zeroed Sliders" preset and Build Morphs was checked on. I am using The Book of UUNP among others.

The same goes for the female body meshes: generate them in BodySlide with the zeroed sliders preset. Your PC's body of choice (7B, UNP....) must not be fixed in the body mesh but preset in RaceMenu. That is the whole idea behind BodyGen.

Nice,

Might I bother you with preparing a Body by Race sort of set up?

I saw a script extension for TesVedit, it has fields for the races in Skyrim.

I figure if I knew just what to write in the entries for some generic morphs it'd go a long way to satisfying an itch that a lot of people seem to have about a big module like the Book.

So I was thinking,

Do I just enter something like....

Nord is

7B Bombshell Low 1.0 ; 7B Bombshell High 1.0

And my other thought is would this still respect the set weight of the NPC's? Like Lydia for instance is set to 100 weight in the game right? So would she appear to be a full Bombshell or is she all of a sudden going to be either full low or full high?

Cause that's something I would need to know and likely be expected to address right?

I'd want the NPC's to be like the weight setting the vanilla game sets them at but have the Preset Bodies I set them to.

So like Elves, would be UNP Body or UNP Skinny Preset.

Then like middle sized women like UNPB.

Also if this worked out well it would save an enormous amount of work and hard disk space not to mention, that would be quite a savings.

Plus I could just put it up under options, packed ready to go for those interested.

orgs1n · April 23, 2017

Below is an example of body types per race. Fat orcs, skinny elves, voluptuous Nords and Redguards... the other races get some random (within reason) variation on UNP or UNPB.

morphs.ini

Female|OrcRace| = Fat

Female|HighElfRace| = Skinny

Female|WoodElfRace| = Skinny

Female|DarkElfRace| = Skinny

Female|NordRace| = Voluptuous

Female|RedguardRace| = Voluptuous

Female|ArgonianRace| = Regular

Female|KhajiitRace| = Regular

Female|ImperialRace| = Regular

Female|BretonRace| = Regular

templates.ini

Fat=CHSBHC High@1

Voluptuous=7B Oppai High@1|7B Natural High@1|7B Bombshell High@1

Skinny=UNPetite Low@1|UNPetite High@1|UNP Skinny Low@1|UNP Skinny High@1

Regular=UNP Low@1|UNP High@1|UNPB Low@1|UNPB High@1

If you use custom races, look up their race ID's in TES5Edit and add them to the list above.

This ignores the NPC's weight. If you want to preserve each NPC's original weight, you can't use a "zeroed sliders" base shape. Instead, create a BodySlide preset with just the base shape set, and all other sliders set to zero. Generate the body and armors with that preset. This will give each NPC his or her standard weight, but limited to the chosen body. For more variety you can still randomize the the other sliders, just not the base shape ones.

morphs.ini

All|Female = RandomBodySliders

templates.ini

RandomBodySliders=AppleCheeks@-0.25:0.25, BigButt@-0.25:0.25, Butt@-0.25:0.5, ButtCrack@-0.25:0.5, ButtShape2@-0.25:0.25, ButtSmall@-0.25:0.25, ChubbyButt@-0.25:0.25, RoundAss@-0.25:0.25, Back@-0.25:0.25, Belly@-0.25:0.25, Bigbelly@-0.25:0.25, BigTorso@-0.25:0.25, ChubbyWaist@-0.25:0.25, Hipbone@-0.25:0.25, Hips@-0.25:0.25, TummyTuck@-0.25:0.25, Waist@-0.2:0.4, WideWaistLine@-0.4:0.4, Ankles@-0.25:0.25, CalfSize@-0.25:0.25, CalfSmooth@-0.25:0.25, ChubbyLegs@-0.25:0.25, KneeHeight@-0.25:0.25, Legs@-0.25:0.25, SlimThighs@-0.25:0.25, Thighs@-0.25:0.25, Arms@-0.25:0.25, ChubbyArms@-0.25:0.25, ShoulderSmooth@-0.25:0.25, ShoulderWidth@-0.25:0.25, Breasts@-0.25:0.25, BreastCleavage@-0.25:1.0, BreastGravity@-0.25:0.25, BreastFlatness@0:0.25, BreastHeight@-0.25:0.25, BreastPerkiness@-0.25:1.0, BreastsSmall@-0.25:0.25, BreastWidth@-0.4:0.4, PushUp@-0.25:0.25, NippleAreola@-0.25:0.75, NippleDistance@-0.25:0.25, NippleDown@-0.25:0.25, NippleLength@-0.25:-0.25, NipplePerkiness@-0.25:1.0, NippleSize@-0.25:0.25, NippleTip@-0.2:0.2, NippleUp@-0.25:0.25

I combine both approaches. The base shapes get randomized, and the RandomBodySliders template gets added on top. I can't have the NPC's original weight that way, but I prefer the variety over that. NPC's I care about get a specific morph anyway.

morphs.ini

All|Female = RandomBaseShape, RandomBodySliders

# ------ Standard NPC ------

#Adrianne Avenicci

Skyrim.esm|013BB9 = UN7B, RandomBodySliders

#Aela the Huntress

Skyrim.esm|01A696 = UNPRandom, RandomBodySliders

#Astrid

Skyrim.esm|0001BDB4 = UN7B

...

templates.ini

#Sliders taken from SliderSets/UnifiedUNP.xml

# Specific shapes.

Oppai=7B Oppai High@1

7B=7B Natural High@1

Bombshell=7B Bombshell High@1

TopModel=Top Model High@0.75:1.0, Thighs@-0.5, ShoulderWidth@1.5

CHSBHC=CHSBHC High@1

Petite=UNPetite Low@1

UNPBO=UNPB Oppai v3.2 High@1

# Limited variety shapes.

UNPSkinnyRandom=UNPetite Low@1|UNPetite High@1|UNP Skinny Low@1|UNP Skinny High@1

UNPRandom=UNP Low@1|UNP High@1

UNPBRandom=UNPB Low@1|UNPB High@1

# Random shapes.

# In morphs.ini, add this to any of the above shapes for completely unique bodies.

RandomBodySliders=AppleCheeks@-0.25:0.25, BigButt@-0.25:0.25, Butt@-0.25:0.5, ButtCrack@-0.25:0.5, ButtShape2@-0.25:0.25, ButtSmall@-0.25:0.25, ChubbyButt@-0.25:0.25, RoundAss@-0.25:0.25, Back@-0.25:0.25, Belly@-0.25:0.25, Bigbelly@-0.25:0.25, BigTorso@-0.25:0.25, ChubbyWaist@-0.25:0.25, Hipbone@-0.25:0.25, Hips@-0.25:0.25, TummyTuck@-0.25:0.25, Waist@-0.2:0.4, WideWaistLine@-0.4:0.4, Ankles@-0.25:0.25, CalfSize@-0.25:0.25, CalfSmooth@-0.25:0.25, ChubbyLegs@-0.25:0.25, KneeHeight@-0.25:0.25, Legs@-0.25:0.25, SlimThighs@-0.25:0.25, Thighs@-0.25:0.25, Arms@-0.25:0.25, ChubbyArms@-0.25:0.25, ShoulderSmooth@-0.25:0.25, ShoulderWidth@-0.25:0.25, Breasts@-0.25:0.25, BreastCleavage@-0.25:1.0, BreastGravity@-0.25:0.25, BreastFlatness@0:0.25, BreastHeight@-0.25:0.25, BreastPerkiness@-0.25:1.0, BreastsSmall@-0.25:0.25, BreastWidth@-0.4:0.4, PushUp@-0.25:0.25, NippleAreola@-0.25:0.75, NippleDistance@-0.25:0.25, NippleDown@-0.25:0.25, NippleLength@-0.25:-0.25, NipplePerkiness@-0.25:1.0, NippleSize@-0.25:0.25, NippleTip@-0.2:0.2, NippleUp@-0.25:0.25

I'm not sure if any of this will solve the particular issue of The Book of UUNP being quite large. The .tri files are still needed to morph the armors.

When you play around with this, be aware that morphs affect only NPC's you haven't yet met in your savegame. Elderly people's morphs are even more stringent: those are fixed at savegame creation, and thus changing them requires you to start a new game.

Also, if you use NPC mods, be sure to replace their female body meshes by the UUNP ones.

stillnofunnylogin · May 3, 2017

Question: Can I combine the "All|Female = RandomBaseShape, RandomBodySliders" syntax with the per-species "Female|HighElfRace| = Skinny" syntax? I have a merged esp containing a slew of followers, some of which are standard races, many of which are customnord, 0customnord, customnord0, etc.

Since the ALL|Female line goes before the individual entries, I'm guessing the ALL entry goes first, followed by the race entries, and finally individuals (generic to specific)?

Thanks

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