[Spoiler][CLS1] More then one way to go about things ...

[Khadir]

Ok, so I pissed off Lisbeth. No big deal, I thought - I can just pickpocket this medicine off her, or at worst kill her and Han and get it this way.

 

Only ...

 

* She doesn't actually have the medicine on her (neither does Han, I checked).

* She is still essential even though she isn't needed for the quest any more.

* Even fixing that with the console and then killing her doesn't make the medicine appear in her inventory.

 

So, my character is kinda a sad brutish Orc marauder ...

[Grumpf]

Well then obviously your char couldn't be the champion of the goddess, which somehow fits with the attitude come to think of it...

 

But you're right about 1 & 3

 

1) They actually don't have it on them (why would they carry a spot remover? I don't travel with my laundry powder...).

2)She's needed later, keep in mind CH1 & CH2 are only 40% of the story.

3)You can add the flask with the console but that may break the quest.

Remind me again as I have a lot of requests a day: the cut scenes were giving you CTDs?

 

We'll fix it don't worry!

[Khadir]

Well then obviously your char couldn't be the champion of the goddess' date=' which somehow fits with the attitude come to think of it...

[/quote']

 

Hehe. Yeah, I figured as much. Still, speaking purely from in-world logic point of view, these should be valid ways to get the spot remover stuff ... just to be declared unworthy by the goddess later on.

[Grumpf]

I'll keep it in mind. We plan to release an extra package with this kind of enhancement after CH3 public release.

 

On the other hand, the Goddess knew you were unworthy hence the spot remover was not on your victim

[KindMan]

While we are talking about this scene, I had a different issue while replaying it with a male character. After talking to Lisbeth (when I was supposed to activate the seat) she kept moving against her tent.

If I activated the seat in this situation, she and my character wouold stand some distance away and do the spellcast animation forever.

I had to push her towards the seat to get it going. Maybe you should consider beaming her there to prevent such bugs from happening?

[Grumpf]

Did you save and then did that just afterwards or reloading?

Gamebryo engine animations are somehow body parts oriented and can trigger this strange behaviour if your char was in about to cast/change idle when you save.

 

Also the evaluate package every round hour doesn't help...

 

I'm willing to fix as much as I can but I can't fix with a mod engine limits... This needs OBSE 21 or Oblivion.exe 2.0 (we all wish...).

 

But go on reporting malfunction, it's really appreciated!

Cheers!

[Khadir]

Well, not really a "malfunction" as such, but I don't think the second item should appear in the inventory when you try to rob Lisbeth:

 

 

[Grumpf]

Well' date=' not really a "malfunction" as such, but I don't think the second item should appear in the inventory when you try to rob Lisbeth:

 

 

[/quote']

 

Mmm good point, I wonder if I make it non playable if it'll fix this. I'll leave it now for debug reason but you got a point.

 

Thanks.

[Khadir]

Mmm good point' date=' I wonder if I make it non playable if it'll fix this. I'll leave it now for debug reason but you got a point.

[/quote']

 

Well, it should make it disappear.

 

BTW, something's wrong with Falanu Hlaalu. I went after Sarah, talked with Falanu about her request, and agreed to meet her in Bruma ... then murdered her (oh, and a bunch of Skingrad guards as well, silly guys throwing themselves on my blade like that). Still, she was in Bruma, and didn't seem to mind this traumatic experience.

[Grumpf]

Yup that's because they're two different NPCs. I guess I can make her essential but same thing, it'll look odd she'll suddenly forget about you.

 

[Khadir]

Yup that's because they're two different NPCs. I guess I can make her essential but same thing' date=' it'll look odd she'll suddenly forget about you.

 

[/quote']

 

Wouldn't this work?

 

1. When Falanu (either version) dies before she finished her job, fail the quest.

2. First version gets disabled the moment the player enters Olaf's in Bruma, the one in there gets enabled.

3. Same for the one at the Dark Fissure (I think you use a third one there); there should be only one active Falanu at any given point.

 

Oh, and another logic problem: It seems Michelle (... I think; the one with the slight orientation problem, in any case) is only enabled after you brought the cure for her and it got "ready". It was kinda silly to see her appearing in Wawnet Inn all of sudden after I broke into all rooms and made sure there was no-one there.

[Grumpf]

Ok all your points are valid, but to this rate I should check too many things. You're supposed to play like a good Goddess Champion... If one of Oblivion character is following you in a escort mission and you suddenly decide to explore Oblivion gate, well yes, the NPC will stupidely follow you... Same thing, trigger a dialog with a sleeping NPC then run before he can talk to you and he will follow you for miles...

 

So you're right but I have to decide when the product has actually reached production quality and needs to be released. I think I went further than Bethesda did so... not too bad

 

But, hey go on testing by all means, that's what I'm expecting from you!

 

Cheers!

[Khadir]

Set up a Bugzilla and keep the bugs and feature requests organised there. That's what I do, even with relatively small projects - and CLS sure isn't anything you could call "small".

 

Bethesda's quest quality is shoddy as hell, by the way. I can find a dozen way most of them don't make sense within an hour on a bad day, before I had my first coffee. You - and every modder - definitively should try to aim higher.

 

EDIT: Hosted alternatives to Bugzilla would be:

 

* FogBugz (free for student and start-up teams of up to two people)

* Google Code (can be used for file tracking with Subversion too)

* GitHub (you can use it as a pure issue tracker too)

 

[Khadir]

Ok, one more way to break the quest logic.

 

You're supposed to make sure Lidya arrives safe in the Imperial City, right? Well, there's a lot of bandits and wildlife on the way, so what do you do?

 

You just let her run alone while running on the other side of the river, apparently. Since the game never spawns enemies when you aren't near, she never gets attacked, and arrives without problems.

 

Idea for a system to remove this exploit:

 

1. Whenever the player character and Lidya are too far apart (some 3000 game units, maybe?), and Lidya isn't in a "safe" area (Leyawiin, Bravil or IC), and the game isn't in menu mode, increment a game-time and a real-time counter.

 

2. Whenever the real-time counter is 5 minutes or more, or the game-time counter is 2 hours or more, kill Lidya. Don't show anything to the player, just kill her (the body won't despawn as long as it's marked as a quest item, and her death place will be still a quest marker).

 

The reason for the two time counters is as follows: The 2 hours game-time (4 minutes real-time at normal game speed) is meant to represent "too much time alone". The 5 minutes real-time timer is there so that people who play with lower game time acceleration settings don't have the quest to easy (if the travel from Leyawiin to Bravil takes only an hour each for them, the two-hour timer will never fire). The reason why we can't just take the game time speed-up value to calculate one from the other is that there are some mods who change this value depending on where the player is (higher speed-up outside, lower in towns and dungeons, stuff like this).

 

3. When the player comes near the dead Lidya, spawn a bandit on top of her body, with the AI to wander around the current location. No further explanation for the player needed.

 

4. When the player comes even nearer (and ideally, when the player can see her, though I'm not sure if LoS tests work for the player character), update the quest with the text of "OMG, I suck." Well, at least something to that effect.

 

Should the player talk with Claudia or her cousin when Lidya is dead, but before he or she discovered Lidya's body, there should be dialogue to the effect of "Strange, she still didn't arrive yet. Maybe something happened to her while you were away (you nasty, uncaring asshole). Could you go and check?"

 

 

[Grumpf]

I guess I could do that or simply spawn some bandits when she reaches a certain area whether the player is with her or not.

I'll try that and if it fails I'll see how to implement your idea.

 

Thanks!

[Khadir]

I guess I could do that or simply spawn some bandits when she reaches a certain area whether the player is with her or not.

I'll try that and if it fails I'll see how to implement your idea.

 

I'm not sure the combat AI even works when the player isn't nearby. General AI (on low-level processing) does, but that's a wholly different matter.

[Grumpf]

Only one way to find out

Good exercise anyway !

 

You know, I can use your help...

[Khadir]

Only one way to find out

Good exercise anyway !

 

You know' date=' I can use your help...

[/quote']

 

If I can help, sure, I'd be glad to. What should I try to break?

[Grumpf]

PM me and we'll figure it out!

[Khadir]

Speaking of Lidya's escort quest, I just found out two more ways to avoid being near her, thus avoid spawning any mobs who might kill her:

 

* Still in Leyawiin or Bravil, do something which yields a small bounty (like checking the inventory of a guard), get caught, and pay the (small) fine. You'll end up teleported to the front of the nearest castle, with Lidya safely on the way without you.

 

* Spend some quality time closing an Oblivion gate. Lidya won't follow you inside, but instead run ahead to her destination in safety.

 

Really, at this point I'm not even trying to break this quest anymore ... It just happens.

[Grumpf]

Speaking of Lidya's escort quest' date=' I just found out [i']two[/i] more ways to avoid being near her, thus avoid spawning any mobs who might kill her:

 

* Still in Leyawiin or Bravil, do something which yields a small bounty (like checking the inventory of a guard), get caught, and pay the (small) fine. You'll end up teleported to the front of the nearest castle, with Lidya safely on the way without you.

 

* Spend some quality time closing an Oblivion gate. Lidya won't follow you inside, but instead run ahead to her destination in safety.

 

Really, at this point I'm not even trying to break this quest anymore ... It just happens.

 

Lol if someone is THAT creative, he's not cheating, he desserves to win