[CK2] DW - Beyond Heresy

[Aliris]

Edit: Moved to new topic with proper file upload, above.

 

Linked here: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/74294-dark-world-beyond-heresy/

[Mr_Treason]

I love the idea of lillithian as a catholic heresy!! Crusades for Lilith anyone? Deus Vult!

[Aliris]

I felt that it might work better as a direct heresy rather than as a completely separate religion, for several reasons. One, it solves the problem of getting a religion that's on the other side of the world, without having to separately define 3 different versions that are exact duplicates, except with a different set of holy sites. Two, it seemed more realistic to me that people would be willing to buy into a different version of their parent religion than into just straight up deciding to worship demons, and it makes the responses more realistic as well, because the response to literal demon-worshippers would be worse than someone with heretical but understandable beliefs, mostly in terms of events and flavor text.

 

Also, this way, I can add different flavor versions for other major religions. I will probably work on Islam and Orthodox next. Orthodox should be fairly easy, since it will be doctrinally similar to the Catholic heresy version, just with a religious head (Matriarch instead of Patriarch?) etc. An Islamic heresy version will be a littly more tricky to make feasible both doctrinally as well as for the fact that Iqta/Turkish succession does not normally allow female inheritance. I think I can manage it by editing the custom succession laws I added to allow the Lilislamic religion to take female friendly succession types, but that might also cause some serious breaking of Iqta. We'll see!

[ReMeDy]

Also, this way, I can add different flavor versions for other major religions. I will probably work on Islam and Orthodox next. Orthodox should be fairly easy, since it will be doctrinally similar to the Catholic heresy version, just with a religious head (Matriarch instead of Patriarch?) etc. An Islamic heresy version will be a littly more tricky to make feasible both doctrinally as well as for the fact that Iqta/Turkish succession does not normally allow female inheritance. I think I can manage it by editing the custom succession laws I added to allow the Lilislamic religion to take female friendly succession types, but that might also cause some serious breaking of Iqta. We'll see!

In a similar religion mod I'm developing, regarding Muslims, I just said, "Fuck it." I mention the player can't play Muslim in the readme and a starting event popup. I wish it could be done differently, but Muslims use decadence, which is counter to what a Lilithian religion would endorse. Maybe Monks & Mystics can resolve this, but for now I'm staying away from Muslims.

[Quillon]

Any plans for future containing Lilithian Holy orders and their troops?

And also trait counterpart of the crusader? (like crusader, vallhala-bound, Warrior of sun and others)

 

And... wow! Great to have this mod. Once I start feeling better, I'll try it out.

[Aliris]

Any plans for future containing Lilithian Holy orders and their troops?

And also trait counterpart of the crusader? (like crusader, vallhala-bound, Warrior of sun and others)

 

And... wow! Great to have this mod. Once I start feeling better, I'll try it out.

 

Yes, definitely holy orders will be appropriate for this - though ironically enough, if you overthrow Roman Catholicism, all Catholic holy orders will become Lilithanist holy orders. (I wonder if there's a way to force them to female-leadership if and when that occurs?)

[Aliris]

 

In a similar religion mod I'm developing, regarding Muslims, I just said, "Fuck it." I mention the player can't play Muslim in the readme and a starting event popup. I wish it could be done differently, but Muslims use decadence, which is counter to what a Lilithian religion would endorse. Maybe Monks & Mystics can resolve this, but for now I'm staying away from Muslims.

 

 

Decadence is certainly a problem from a roleplaying standpoint. From a mechanics one, it's pretty easy to nullify, simply by omitting the "uses_decadence=yes" line from that religion, or having events that prevent it from going up for a Lilislamic ruler's dynasty. Doing so might make the Islamic variant of Lilithanism too powerful, though, since managing decadence is one of the challenges of a Muslim dynasty.

 

One possibility might be writing up alternate versions of the events that invert the concept entirely - sins lower decadence, virtues raise it. It wouldn't change the word itself, but might be interesting if it flipped things around like that, such that you'd want to encourage 'bad' traits and discourage 'good' ones.

 

Another option might be to simply make the one Muslims convert to be a heresy of Nestorian Christianity instead, which is located in the correct geographic region, and shares many of the cultural aspects, without the mechanics such as Decadence. This would have the advantage of quickly outpacing and becoming the 'dominant' branch of its religion, but would likely also be right smack in the middle of lots of Muslim realms, which diminishes that advantage.

 

Edit - what may work best is to create an entirely separate religion that isn't part of the Muslim group, but uses aspects of it. This way I could enable or disable decadence as desired, and if I do use it, replace all the decadence events with versions that invert all the values. The downside of this route is that Lilislam can't pop up as a heresy in random locations, but I think that's probably a reasonable tradeoff.