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[Concept] A different take on combat sex


Tj412

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I was originally going to post this in the adult mod requests thread, but it grew to the point where I thought it'd warrant its own thread. If I should've posted it in there regardless, I apologize.

Disclaimer:

I haven't the knowledge, skills nor time to attempt something like this. This is simply a concept/request, and you're within your right to tell me to buzz off for being an ideas guy as I'm well aware it's much easier to think these things up than it is to do them, as well as the fact that all things Sextec are still a long way out to begin with.

 

So with that out of the way, what's this about?

To put it in as few words as possible, a grapple/struggle system.

If you've ever played Paperheads by Wolfenstahl, you'll already have a good idea of what I'm about to explain.

 

How would it work?

Rather than a Sexlab Defeat approach in which you must be hit by an enemy while below a certain HP/Stamina threshold, this system would have enemies able to attempt rape at any point in combat, depending on certain factors: The distance between the attacker and target, the target's vulnerability (Arousal/Armor/APs/Weapon/Facing attacker), and the attacker's stats (Arousal/HP/Numerical superiority).

So in short, a raider with a switchblade and only one arm isn't going to try anything against you if you're in power armor wielding a minigun, but if he's at full HP with 5 buddies and you're just wearing say a vault suit and holding a pipe, he wouldn't hesitate.

 

You would be able to prevent a grapple by bashing or killing the enemy trying to do it before they got close enough. There'd have to be some way (Probably a distinct running animation) to be able to tell they're trying to do it.

 

So, the grapple its self; When an enemy has grabbed you, your AP slowly begins to drain (The rate of which depends on the disparity between victim/attacker strength). When it reaches 0, you are defeated and you're at the attacker's mercy. While you still have APs though, you're able to prevent each stage of surprise buttfun from ensuing; Between each animation stage, you have a short window to correctly enter a randomly generated sequence of controls as displayed on-screen*. Doing so successfully will refill your APs part-way. Doing this multiple times until the AP bar is completely refilled has you escape the grapple and resume combat immediately.

 

At high (Not necessarily full) APs/low arousal, you'd have a very short (500ms or less) window to hit the bash/power attack control at the start of the grapple (with a glaring on-screen prompt). Doing so successfully breaks the grapple there and then and stuns the attacker, but falling, say, 1 second either side of that would take a chunk off your APs - Do you try and break out early, or ignore it and try to break free with less risk?

 

However, if you press the wrong key during this sequence or fail to complete it in time, the next/first stage of the animation begins, at which point your weapon is thrown on the ground/stolen and armor stripped*. You have less time (or more keys) to enter for each successive stage**, and/or AP takes a hit and/or starts to drain at a higher rate.

 

*I was thinking, maybe a separate grapple which has to happen before the character can be raped, in which clothing/armor is stripped - Maybe even 2 stages to this for chest-pieces and underclothes (where applicable). For that to work, this mod would have to include or rely on another (currently non-existent) mod that prevents swapping armor during combat, as otherwise you can just open the pipboy and slap on anything else you have.

 

**If/when an arousal system is implemented, that's what'd factor in here.

 

 

If you run out of APs during the grapple or by the conclusion of the animation, it would lead to a Death-Alternative/SD+ style scenario; Eg. being left for dead with all your equipment gone (You should always be able to track down your attacker and get your stuff back though), slavery (Depending on aggressor faction/morality), etc.

 

If you still have APs once the animation has concluded however, pressing the melee/power attack button at the right moment will stun the attacker and you'll be back up on your feet, sans weapon. The idea is you'd be able to tactically submit to a grapple if your stats would make it too difficult/risky, and gain a small window of opportunity in combat to deal them some damage/pick your gun back up and run. However, this would carry risks of its own: the attacker may decide to bind you post-sex to go at it again unhindered. Trying to surprise them too early and they'd be too prepared for it. Too late, and you'll end up in a DA style scenario as described before. You'd also have to make sure not to submit too early - If you do it during the grapple, they might decide to bind you then instead of later.

 

Depending on what kind of analogue to devious devices we get, different bindings could still allow you to escape a grapple and even still surprise-attack (eg. a gag wouldn't hinder you in any of these).

 

 

A large part of this idea is to avoid the sort of scenarios you'd get in Sexlab Defeat where you get raped, then the attackers just stand about, let you get back up and expect you not to attack them.

 

 

 

So this is how it'd go with most human(oid) enemies and synths, what about creatures?

It'd be largely the same, but the post- scenarios would differ. Insects (Bloatfly, Stingwing, Radroach etc) would probably do the deed then scuttle/fly away (As opposed to again, just "standing" around, non-hostile as in EC+ - although, enslavement to them would be interesting, especially with pregnancy). Now that I think of it, most would probably either just lose interest and wander off, or kill the victim - especially Deathclaws. 

 

 As for how it'd work NPC v NPC, it could be a simplified to a diceroll for each system, maybe factoring in the relevant SPECIAL stats and HP. 

Player as aggressor? I have no idea.

 

So, that's that. You don't need my permission to expand/criticize/use (- here's hoping) but for what it's worth, feel free. 

 

 

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I'd like something similar to this - more ways to end combat without requiring that HP hits 0. Late game NPCs for most RPGs of this genre either have a hard time touching you or nuke you with 1 or 2 hits.

 

Further, there's a few mobs in game that already have grapple-attack animations (Deathclaw and Blood Bug come to mind), so it's more probably that it could work here than in Skyrim.

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I'd like something similar to this - more ways to end combat without requiring that HP hits 0. Late game NPCs for most RPGs of this genre either have a hard time touching you or nuke you with 1 or 2 hits.

 

Further, there's a few mobs in game that already have grapple-attack animations (Deathclaw and Blood Bug come to mind), so it's more probably that it could work here than in Skyrim.

 

IDK, Skyrim had similar death animations too that'd trigger when your/target's health was low enough. If I understand right, the only real differences between those and a sexlab/sextec anim is the animation its self and what triggers it - Those animations, as they are in F4, wouldn't really suit this purpose but they could probably do as stand-ins (even a single frame) until more appropriate ones could be made. A generic animation or two for humans probably wouldn't be too much work on the scale of things, but for creatures they'd have to be specific. The real effort though would probably be programming this system in the first place, and then having it interface with SexTec, however that would work. Another question is sex animations that flow well from the grapple animations; since it'll be many different people making them, it'd be difficult to coordinate. 

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Some problems

 

1, In these ACT games there were only the PC and enemies so you can just let the enemy to rape you and won't cause any trouble. But in FO4 there were all kinds of NPC sometimes fight each other. What will happen if the raper get damage or even killed?

 

2, I have played a lot of games of this type, and most of the sex scene will last for over 15 seconds which means it will 100% break the rhythm of the combat, especially when the PC get raped.

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Some problems

 

1, In these ACT games there were only the PC and enemies so you can just let the enemy to rape you and won't cause any trouble. But in FO4 there were all kinds of NPC sometimes fight each other. What will happen if the raper get damage or even killed?

 

2, I have played a lot of games of this type, and most of the sex scene will last for over 15 seconds which means it will 100% break the rhythm of the combat, especially when the PC get raped.

These are some really good points and I'll do my best to address them.

For 1, ideally the same as SL Defeat - An aggressor who is attacked at any point would abandon the grapple and get back to cracking skulls. This begs the question, what happens to the PC/victim if they still have APs left? The best idea I can think of, bar workload/papyrus etc concerns is that they'd tie the PC up if they had the item to do so, but only if the hit they sustained was light (less than 10-20% of their HP), and if they have friends nearby to cover them. Otherwise, they could knock the PC on the head, denting their APs and leaving them stunned for a few moments.

If the person who attacks them is aligned with the player, IE a companion or settlers, I suppose they'd have to go down or be grappled themselves before the player is considered vulnerable enough to initiate.

 

As for 2, I agree - it completely breaks the flow of the gameplay even in most games designed around sex, with many of them either making it way, way too easy to escape, the only way to see the scenes in full is if you want to - or, the scene initiates as soon as you touch an enemy and you can't escape, both are bad. What you said though also applies to SL Defeat IMO. The point is that these events would be a minigame in and of themselves, as opposed to mashing left+right to fill up a bar or having all control taken away from you. In other words, the ideal implementation of this idea would have you almost never have to sit through a 15-30 second animation if you play your cards right, let alone being grappled in the first place; however if you're making big mistakes in combat, the enemy will take advantage of this in ways that don't end up with you reloading a save.

 

If you've not played Paperheads, I strongly recommend it (You can get the demo here http://www.dlsite.com/ecchi-eng/work/=/product_id/RE111186.html - unfortunately it's mostly in Japanese but it's self explanatory.) if nothing else just to see how it handles it. Just check the options, by default the grapple difficulty is set to easy - I'd recommend setting it to normal to get the best impression of it. Going back to it myself, PH does these things a little differently, mostly because the entire game is centered around it. During a grapple, you can spam X to injure the enemy, so if they grapple you at low health you can finish them off, but it costs APs. Throughout the grapple you can also spam V to resist pleasure, and also before each subsequent phase of the animation you can press C to stop it from advancing if you're quick enough - however there's no additional penalty for failing that.

Anyway, it's not a perfect example but it's the closest I've seen so far. 

 

Malise and the Machine (Demo here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/malise-and-demo-4412674 ) is another one I'd recommend checking out. Ofc it's even further removed from FO4's gameplay in that it's an RPG, but the sort of concept regarding H vs combat is similar - sex is another tool your enemies use to make you lose. The grapples all have negative consequences to varying degrees (One being a self-destruct that will KO the character completely, while the rest increase the chars' lust, degrade their performance and the grapples themselves prevent them from attacking any target other than the grappler. Successful H attacks will temporarily floor the character), and there are several interesting dynamics going on with them - You can use Neon's special ability to prevent the target from doing so, or you can straight up kill them; you can damage the aggressor while in a grapple (Costs a lot of stamina), plain struggle with another A/D button-mash, or your other character can just shoot them off if they're not otherwise occupied themselves. I'd recommend playing it on the real-time battle mode instead of "wait/wait for input", otherwise it too falls on the "H only happens if you're trying to lose" side of things.

 

 

Oh, and something I completely forgot to mention in the OP: Black Widow/Animal Friend/Wasteland Whisperer would give you a bonuses in the relevant grapples: Higher chance against being bound, a larger window to counter post-grapple and post-sex, and a longer stun as a result of countering a grapple. Maybe even slightly reduced AP drain during grapples.

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Cool idea, yes I'd like to see stages of defeat like being disarmed etc too.

It's a cool idea sure, wouldn't have posted it otherwise :P The question, specifically to you as someone with experience with bethesda's hot messes they call video games, is how feasible is it? I mean I appreciate the vote of confidence, I just want to be able to manage my expectations.

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Cool idea, yes I'd like to see stages of defeat like being disarmed etc too.

It's a cool idea sure, wouldn't have posted it otherwise :P The question, specifically to you as someone with experience with bethesda's hot messes they call video games, is how feasible is it? I mean I appreciate the vote of confidence, I just want to be able to manage my expectations.

 

The disarming bit is possible and probably most of it to some degree eventually, the hard bit is creating the extra animations, for example I'd love to see an animation where an actor holds another while a collar is fitted by a 3rd actor.
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Interesting idea.

 

A couple of thoughts on it.

 

 

1) In combat have it never trigger until there is only one faction left active. It makes sense no one is going to attempt that until their side is winning.

 

2) If random combat starts in the middle have the mod stop and everyone goes back to combat. Like if some raiders grab the PC and a wandering deathclaw shows up and attacks the raiders the mod stops and everyone goes into a 3-way fight again until their is only 1 enemy faction left.

 

3) I would like to see a option where every time a PC or NPC is hit they can be stunned/staggered. Which puts them in a vulnerable spot which if only one enemy faction is left it triggers the mod. I suggest this for a few reasons to make it a bit more random and to allow NPC on NPC to happen or even NPC on NPC on PC. So say for example Raiders are fighting Gunners and the PC is there. One of the Gunners gets staggered in combat and is out for 15 seconds and during that time the rest of the gunners die and the PC is triggered as a victim by the mod. Well then the Raiders could split up and attempt to rape both the gunner and the PC. Plus even one on one with just the PC and enemies it makes it a bit more random on when it could happen.

 

4) I am not in love with the idea of using AP, instead I would say give the PC a struggle bar and the NPC a struggle bar. How big the bar is would be based on str, gender, weapons, armor etc. Then once a struggle starts all combat ends and all other NPC's will also head over, once they get so close they increase the struggle bar by 50% each. So for example our PC has a struggle bar rating of 50 and the NPC has one of 100, each NPC that comes over at the first and get close enough adds another 50 to the struggle bar. Since it should only trigger when the NPC has the advantage. The idea is the NPC is trying to disarm, strip, and then subdue the PC, which in theory should give the PC chances to escape.

 

So in the above example lets say the PC gets low enough a raider grabs her and the rating is 50 vs 100, all combat ends and any other raider starts heading over. They struggle a bit and the PC goes to zero and the NPC to 50, PC has lost first stage and gets disarmed, weapon is stolen by the Raider. The PC gets 50% of their struggle back as they was already losing so then it goes to 25 vs 50. PC loses again, then any head gear is removed from the PC. At that point it is down to 25 vs 25. I would say have the defender always tick first so at the end it would look like 0 vs 1 and the Raider wins again and the PC is stripped of their outer armor pieces. It goes to 25 vs 1 and finally the PC wins the struggle. Have the raider shoved away and the PC can either attempt to fight again, which would start combat again, or try and run with the NPC chasing. If they start fighting it would go back to default how it all started. If the PC ran and the NPC chased, the mod checks every few seconds with a chance the Radier will lunge like ghouls do now if the PC is still with in a certain range. If the lunge triggers the Raider grabs the PC again and the struggle starts all over again but the PC will have a lower starting struggle bar because they are missing their weapon and armor. So the next time it might start out 25 vs 100 then. This keeps going until the PC is completely naked and loses one more struggle, or the PC kills the NPC's by starting combat again or managed to run away.

 

I know this is a lot more complicated but I think it would be cool, this way the PC could have narrow escapes from Raiders but still at a price as they lost some of their weapons and gear during the struggle.

 

Anyways just brain storming a bit.

 

 

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balabalabala...

 

When I say "I've played a lot of this kind of game", it's really "a lot of", maybe over 50 lol. In fact I've tried to make a game of this type of my own. So I've already thought and even tested for some times, and found it really a contradiction for a female PC. While male PC has no such problems

 

That is to say, for these types of QTE scene,as female PC, you want to:

1, get rid of the scene so you can back to combat

2, watch the sex scene

A game should not make such contradiction. But for most people (like me ) they don't want to use a male character...

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

my idea as flows:

 

1,For pc as a victim, you won't get raped unless you have extrame low HP. basically it works like what "defeat" did in skrim, if the enemies change there combat type that want to catch you will be better. Easy to understand that you will die without the mod, so why not have a 20-30s of sex scene.

 

2,For pc as a perpetrator, you get a skill that could trigger the sex scene. It could rather be a 5-10 seconds of QTE type sex scene if sex-tec support it.

 

3,For npc vs npc, they act like pc as a perpetrator.

 

In addition, for FO4 I think have a feature of "join the sex" will be better. That is to say if there begin a sex scene, the nearby NPCs will try to join it. For example ,your follower can join your scene (to rescue you). If npcs from different camps begin to fight, it will endup as a big group sex party

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Non Linear Animations (NLA) would help lots with melee combat/sex mod. Or something like 0-Sex for skyrim, with short animation; small animation steps, depending on input and context. Newer game engines are "blending" rag-doll physics with key frame linear animation stuff, very dynamic and realistic. Though gamebyro (Creation Engine) may not have the functionality yet. Best is if 0Sex gets a FO4 port. Then you'd just need to add the animations and scripts to the framework.  With animations either non-linear or very short, scenes with multiple combatants would be easier to resolve. Combat wouldn't stop -- sexually aggressive animations would be similar to melee combat animations and functionality. Getting hit with non-sexual attack means you'd  just stagger out of being plowed. The plow animation, like any other combat animation would resume when context conditions are met. 

 

Try replacing a few of the default melee combat animations to explore the idea. Instead of throwing a "power attack" punch, you'd grapple and thrust hips, instead of a staggering your opponent they would double-over momentarily receiving the thrusts; non-power attacks thrust your hips; keep throwing small punches means you'd keep thrusting. Keep getting hit, means you'd keep receiving sexual thrusts. Being thrust upon damages a.p; not h.p. Successful thrusts, builds a.p. Sexual encounters that actually take skill to execute, that'd be something to play. As you say, block a grapple or thrust (a.p. check against opponent) and the aggressor staggers away.  You could use the 'Kill Move' functionality to maintain better animation alignment and control. Try replacing a Killmove animation with something else, might be surprised how easy it is (assuming you can disable damage/death during a killmove event)

 

This would be a great way to handle consensual sex encounters as well. Sex as soft and playful combat. 

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balabalabala...

 

When I say "I've played a lot of this kind of game", it's really "a lot of", maybe over 50 lol. In fact I've tried to make a game of this type of my own. So I've already thought and even tested for some times, and found it really a contradiction for a female PC. While male PC has no such problems [*]

 

That is to say, for these types of QTE scene,as female PC, you want to:

1, get rid of the scene so you can back to combat

2, watch the sex scene

A game should not make such contradiction. But for most people (like me ) they don't want to use a male character...

 

 

 

So have I (Except the "Tried making a game" part). Have you played the MaTM demo as I suggested? The sex "scenes" are all in the context of combat (Except for pre-defined events, ie boss battles), and your efforts to avoid them finishing, or starting in the first place will directly affect your ability in combat. They don't break the flow, because the sex attacks are just that - attacks in and of themselves. More lengthy and varied scenes would take place upon defeat.

 

[*] I don't think the gender of the PC matters, just whether the PC is the victim or instigator. 

 

 

 

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

my idea as flows:

 

1,For pc as a victim, you won't get raped unless you have extrame low HP. basically it works like what "defeat" did in skrim, if the enemies change there combat type that want to catch you will be better. Easy to understand that you will die without the mod, so why not have a 20-30s of sex scene.

 

2,For pc as a perpetrator, you get a skill that could trigger the sex scene. It could rather be a 5-10 seconds of QTE type sex scene if sex-tec support it.

 

3,For npc vs npc, they act like pc as a perpetrator.

 

In addition, for FO4 I think have a feature of "join the sex" will be better. That is to say if there begin a sex scene, the nearby NPCs will try to join it. For example ,your follower can join your scene (to rescue you). If npcs from different camps begin to fight, it will endup as a big group sex party

 

1: The problem, or rather the limitation of what you suggest, is that's entirely binary. Is the player alive? No combat sex. Is the player "dead"? Sex. No in-between. The OP is almost entirely about the in-between, and making it intertwine with normal combat. Your supposition that it would break the flow of gameplay can also be easily addressed by the end-user: Just disable the mod if you want to concentrate on traditional combat. Regardless, it'd still be nice to have sex scenes as an alternative to death, and result in a "fission mailed" scenario like in Death Alternative, in addition to what I describe in the OP.

 

 

2: I think instead of having it a skill that you manually decide to choose, the ability to become a perpetrator yourself could be a "procedural" skill, like Adrenaline in survival mode - The longer you go without consensual sex (and/or masturbation), the more likely you're going to want to (and gain the ability to) instigate non-consensual sex. Arousal would factor in to this, above certain thresholds it could even trigger PC aggressing automatically - furthermore, indulging in this could make you addicted to it in the same way as chems, suffering additional drawbacks the longer you go. There would ideally be another few conditions that need to be met to be able to do it, for example chem/alcohol abuse, alignment with immoral factions (if/when mods/dlc/patches add support for doing so), or the amount of immoral things you do in normal gameplay (does it even keep a store of how many items you've stolen/non-hostiles you've killed?)

Alternate start mods, if/when any come along that let you play as a Raider or original character would be the only scenario I see it as really justifiable that you could choose to be an aggressor.

All this is feeding in to the role-playing aspect - If you were to just run around raping everything, why not just cut out the middleman and use the animation framework to manually trigger the scenes off-hand? 

 

3: ??? Not sure how to interpret this. Basically the way I see it working is there's a random chance that if an NPC is "killed", they're incapacitated instead and that can lead to sex. As for grapples, again random chance would determine whether the scene progresses etc. Having NPCs simulate, rather than emulate, the minigame would probably be wasteful in terms of both performance and modder workload.

 

As for NPCs "joining" an animation, I'm not sure what you mean. Animations for a third participant who breaks it up? I like the idea that a companion, or allied NPCs would try to melee the aggressor instead of just shooting them (If it's another potential aggressor they will melee too, but if it's an enemy who isn't interested in you, they'd just shoot.). Again, if NPCs have SPECIAL stats, their perception and/or intelligence could factor in to whether the aggressor reacts to this before being whacked in the face and abandons the grapple.

Gangbangs? That already goes without saying.

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This really is a great idea (thanks for the Malise and the Machine demo btw, i had missed it!).

 

I too played paperheads and similar games before and i always wished that a simmilar system could be implemented into Skyrim. It never happened tho, and now that we got Fallout4, i really want this idea to see the light of day! Heck, give me the name of a great animator and ill pay him to make the animations!

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Interesting idea.

 

A couple of thoughts on it.

 

 

1) In combat have it never trigger until there is only one faction left active. It makes sense no one is going to attempt that until their side is winning.

 

2) If random combat starts in the middle have the mod stop and everyone goes back to combat. Like if some raiders grab the PC and a wandering deathclaw shows up and attacks the raiders the mod stops and everyone goes into a 3-way fight again until their is only 1 enemy faction left.

 

3) I would like to see a option where every time a PC or NPC is hit they can be stunned/staggered. Which puts them in a vulnerable spot which if only one enemy faction is left it triggers the mod. I suggest this for a few reasons to make it a bit more random and to allow NPC on NPC to happen or even NPC on NPC on PC. So say for example Raiders are fighting Gunners and the PC is there. One of the Gunners gets staggered in combat and is out for 15 seconds and during that time the rest of the gunners die and the PC is triggered as a victim by the mod. Well then the Raiders could split up and attempt to rape both the gunner and the PC. Plus even one on one with just the PC and enemies it makes it a bit more random on when it could happen.

 

4) I am not in love with the idea of using AP, instead I would say give the PC a struggle bar and the NPC a struggle bar. How big the bar is would be based on str, gender, weapons, armor etc. Then once a struggle starts all combat ends and all other NPC's will also head over, once they get so close they increase the struggle bar by 50% each. So for example our PC has a struggle bar rating of 50 and the NPC has one of 100, each NPC that comes over at the first and get close enough adds another 50 to the struggle bar. Since it should only trigger when the NPC has the advantage. The idea is the NPC is trying to disarm, strip, and then subdue the PC, which in theory should give the PC chances to escape.

 

So in the above example lets say the PC gets low enough a raider grabs her and the rating is 50 vs 100, all combat ends and any other raider starts heading over. They struggle a bit and the PC goes to zero and the NPC to 50, PC has lost first stage and gets disarmed, weapon is stolen by the Raider. The PC gets 50% of their struggle back as they was already losing so then it goes to 25 vs 50. PC loses again, then any head gear is removed from the PC. At that point it is down to 25 vs 25. I would say have the defender always tick first so at the end it would look like 0 vs 1 and the Raider wins again and the PC is stripped of their outer armor pieces. It goes to 25 vs 1 and finally the PC wins the struggle. Have the raider shoved away and the PC can either attempt to fight again, which would start combat again, or try and run with the NPC chasing. If they start fighting it would go back to default how it all started. If the PC ran and the NPC chased, the mod checks every few seconds with a chance the Radier will lunge like ghouls do now if the PC is still with in a certain range. If the lunge triggers the Raider grabs the PC again and the struggle starts all over again but the PC will have a lower starting struggle bar because they are missing their weapon and armor. So the next time it might start out 25 vs 100 then. This keeps going until the PC is completely naked and loses one more struggle, or the PC kills the NPC's by starting combat again or managed to run away.

 

I know this is a lot more complicated but I think it would be cool, this way the PC could have narrow escapes from Raiders but still at a price as they lost some of their weapons and gear during the struggle.

 

Anyways just brain storming a bit.

 

 

This is kinda missing the point again; All this sounds great if we're thinking in the binary mode of mods like Defeat - Player (+companions) is incapacitated? Sex. Anyone still standing? No sex. But that's what I want to avoid.

 

Let's look at a hypothetical scenario: You run into Billy the raider and Bobby the raider. They want nothing more than to kill, fuck, loot and fill the space occupied by their brains with jet. You have a tricked out assault rifle with an evil black pistol grip and a shoulder thing that goes up. They, on the other hand, have a pipe pistol and a pipe wrench between them. In almost any normal gameplay scenario you can think of, you'd rek them without even trying (Unless you're playing on survival, with a 1End. character and a mod that increases weapon damage like I am, but also suck at the game). So, what can they do? The guy with the gun shoots a few rounds at you, while the guy without one decides that the only way they're gonna come out of this on top (Does that count as a pun?) is by restricting your ability to shoot at them, and fast. I know this contradicts a small aspect of the original concept, but the effect is the same if not better: Even enemies with shit gear can turn the tables on you so long as you make the mistake of allowing them to get close enough. This goes double for a hypothetical 2v4 scenario: You and a companion vs 4 raiders. You have the better equipment, comp. would be easier to defeat in straight up combat. 1 of the 4 enemies tries to grapple you, so the other 3 can concentrate on taking down your companion.

If you're on the proverbial ball, you can still kill them before they get a chance to enact this plan; If you're not, you're at a much higher risk of losing than if they were to just keep shooting/swinging at you.

 

Ofc. this doesn't work very well in open environments against human enemies because despite (relatively slight) improvements, this game's AI are still retarded - They can't ambush (outside of scripted events) because if you crouch you automatically know whether enemies are present. They don't flank, they don't strategize. When it comes to interior cells though it's more than possible for them to get the jump on you. 

 

The bottom line is that regardless of who they're fighting, so long as they're not outnumbered or close to being even, they can afford to risk such a bold move. If you clearly outgun them regardless of their numbers, one of their best options to win is to stop you dealing damage - Grappling is one way to do that and this would make sense in a non-adult context, but since we're all perverts here, why not segue sex into it? 

Stun/gas/flash grenades and say tranquilizing syringer ammo would make this flow even better.

 

The reason I chose AP is because it's something that is affected by movement and combat, and the closest thing the game has to a stamina system. If you've just been running your ass off trying to dodge bullets, you're not gonna have as much energy to fight someone off who grapples with you. I'd love it if all movement and combat actions drained AP (Only when in combat) by virtue of just being more realistic; The fact it'd suit the needs of this sort of system even better is somewhat coincidental.

 

Human NPCs having a lunge attack similar to what the ghouls have now is a fantastic idea though, even in a non-adult context. 

 

Got this far and barely even mentioned creatures. Since the vast majority of them rely on melee attacks and are unintelligent (Both as AI and lore-wise) they could easily overwhelm the player with grapples, especially insects, molerats, ghouls and dogs, where in normal gameplay most will barely dent your health if they get close and you can quickly mop them up with any automatic weapon.

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I've done some work already about a death alternative mod, I will probably make a mod like this (well finish it I should say) and this time I want to focus on scenarios after a particular faction has defeated you, the radiant system in this game is waaaay better than Skyrim's, so far I created a simple scenario where when you are defeated by raiders you are teleported in the nearest raider base on a captive marker.

 

I've also made a simple left for dead scenario where you are teleported not far away from where you have been defeated or in the nearest settlement on a bed, quite a cool simple thing to have instead of dying in survival mod, unfortunately the bleedout state when the player is essential isn't usable as it is bugged as hell (only working on third person among other problems) so the player will always have a chance to die.

 

I wish to make it more frameworky so people can add stuff in different phase of the mod, connecting mod and content is a lot simplier than Skyrim here too.

 

I'm also working on another mod: an alternative to the intimidate perk by making it metal gear solid like and with the possibility to send prisoners to your settlements and all voiced, I"ve made good progress on it but unfortunately Bethesda fucked us good with their settlement system: impossible to add a random NPC to the actual settlement if they don't have a particular script on them... I found a workaround to add prisoners to any settlement but they won't be able to join the settlement as normal settlers which make the whole idea of making a prisoner a settler by persuation infeasible... it's really a shame.

 

 

Anyways about your idea frankly I think this is possible but it will require a shit ton of work to have something solid and I'm just talking scripting wise, way too many parameters to take into account during a grapple phase.

 

and of course F4SE needs to give us the right functions back, currently it's not possible to remove the armor pieces (other than removeall or unequipall), for some reason the function to remove a particular slot dosen't work... and we can't register hotkeys.

MCM menu is really needed too.

 

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I've done some work already about a death alternative mod, I will probably make a mod like this (well finish it I should say) and this time I want to focus on scenarios after a particular faction has defeated you, the radiant system in this game is waaaay better than Skyrim's, so far I created a simple scenario where when you are defeated by raiders you are teleported in the nearest raider base on a captive marker.

 

I've also made a simple left for dead scenario where you are teleported not far away from where you have been defeated or in the nearest settlement on a bed, quite a cool simple thing to have instead of dying in survival mod, unfortunately the bleedout state when the player is essential isn't usable as it is bugged as hell (only working on third person among other problems) so the player will always have a chance to die.

 

I wish to make it more frameworky so people can add stuff in different phase of the mod, connecting mod and content is a lot simplier than Skyrim here too.

 

I'm also working on another mod: an alternative to the intimidate perk by making it metal gear solid like and with the possibility to send prisoners to your settlements and all voiced, I"ve made good progress on it but unfortunately Bethesda fucked us good with their settlement system: impossible to add a random NPC to the actual settlement if they don't have a particular script on them... I found a workaround to add prisoners to any settlement but they won't be able to join the settlement as normal settlers which make the whole idea of making a prisoner a settler by persuation infeasible... it's really a shame.

 

 

Anyways about your idea frankly I think this is possible but it will require a shit ton of work to have something solid and I'm just talking scripting wise, way too many parameters to take into account during a grapple phase.

 

and of course F4SE needs to give us the right functions back, currently it's not possible to remove the armor pieces (other than removeall or unequipall), for some reason the function to remove a particular slot dosen't work... and we can't register hotkeys.

MCM menu is really needed too.

I typed out a full reply to this but LL decided it didn't want it.

The defeat/DA system and captives all sound great, I hope you can get those issues resolved. You're doing god's work paving the way for the content creators.

 

As for this concept, yeah, no doubt it'd be a lot of work - though, it could be simplified to the point that the difficulty of the grapple/escape are dictated only by victim arousal vs aggressor strength. Stuff like the checks on equipment stats and level, post-sex counterattacks etc are things that are nice to have, but can go out the window if it means lightening the load. 

SE and MCM, well, they're just a matter of time. F4 is Bethesda's most popular game and no doubt this will draw more talent in - same goes for with LL probably.

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This is kinda missing the point again; All this sounds great if we're thinking in the binary mode of mods like Defeat - Player (+companions) is incapacitated? Sex. Anyone still standing? No sex. But that's what I want to avoid.

 

Let's look at a hypothetical scenario: You run into Billy the raider and Bobby the raider. They want nothing more than to kill, fuck, loot and fill the space occupied by their brains with jet. You have a tricked out assault rifle with an evil black pistol grip and a shoulder thing that goes up. They, on the other hand, have a pipe pistol and a pipe wrench between them. In almost any normal gameplay scenario you can think of, you'd rek them without even trying (Unless you're playing on survival, with a 1End. character and a mod that increases weapon damage like I am, but also suck at the game). So, what can they do? The guy with the gun shoots a few rounds at you, while the guy without one decides that the only way they're gonna come out of this on top (Does that count as a pun?) is by restricting your ability to shoot at them, and fast. I know this contradicts a small aspect of the original concept, but the effect is the same if not better: Even enemies with shit gear can turn the tables on you so long as you make the mistake of allowing them to get close enough. This goes double for a hypothetical 2v4 scenario: You and a companion vs 4 raiders. You have the better equipment, comp. would be easier to defeat in straight up combat. 1 of the 4 enemies tries to grapple you, so the other 3 can concentrate on taking down your companion.

If you're on the proverbial ball, you can still kill them before they get a chance to enact this plan; If you're not, you're at a much higher risk of losing than if they were to just keep shooting/swinging at you.

 

Ofc. this doesn't work very well in open environments against human enemies because despite (relatively slight) improvements, this game's AI are still retarded - They can't ambush (outside of scripted events) because if you crouch you automatically know whether enemies are present. They don't flank, they don't strategize. When it comes to interior cells though it's more than possible for them to get the jump on you. 

 

The bottom line is that regardless of who they're fighting, so long as they're not outnumbered or close to being even, they can afford to risk such a bold move. If you clearly outgun them regardless of their numbers, one of their best options to win is to stop you dealing damage - Grappling is one way to do that and this would make sense in a non-adult context, but since we're all perverts here, why not segue sex into it? 

Stun/gas/flash grenades and say tranquilizing syringer ammo would make this flow even better.

 

The reason I chose AP is because it's something that is affected by movement and combat, and the closest thing the game has to a stamina system. If you've just been running your ass off trying to dodge bullets, you're not gonna have as much energy to fight someone off who grapples with you. I'd love it if all movement and combat actions drained AP (Only when in combat) by virtue of just being more realistic; The fact it'd suit the needs of this sort of system even better is somewhat coincidental.

 

Human NPCs having a lunge attack similar to what the ghouls have now is a fantastic idea though, even in a non-adult context. 

 

Got this far and barely even mentioned creatures. Since the vast majority of them rely on melee attacks and are unintelligent (Both as AI and lore-wise) they could easily overwhelm the player with grapples, especially insects, molerats, ghouls and dogs, where in normal gameplay most will barely dent your health if they get close and you can quickly mop them up with any automatic weapon.

 

 

No I was saying stuff to add to what you was talking about. I am all for them if they feel they can over power you just charging you and over powering you. I was tossing out ways to tweak that with the struggling working the way I suggested and also ways for when they don't try and rush you where it could still happen randomly in combat by you getting stunned and the like.

 

Since as you said the combat AI is pretty horrible and having a few ways for it to trigger I think would be better than a single way.

 

Though I do think the everyone down makes more sense. I wouldn't think any raider would start to rape someone in the middle of a raging combat. Knock someone down and subdue them and perhaps tie them up in the middle of combat sure and then once the rest of combat is taking care of go back for their subdued victim.

 

As I said I wasn't suggesting to replace anything you said persay other than the action points part, I was making suggestions to tweak and add to what you had so far.

 

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I've done some work already about a death alternative mod, I will probably make a mod like this (well finish it I should say) and this time I want to focus on scenarios after a particular faction has defeated you, the radiant system in this game is waaaay better than Skyrim's, so far I created a simple scenario where when you are defeated by raiders you are teleported in the nearest raider base on a captive marker.

 

This is would be very cool, that is one of my only real issues with Defeat in Skyrim. I know you had said you was going to work on it and I understand it is really hard but I kept hoping. But making it so you get sent to a faction base and then have a simple quest system there would be very cool.

 

The other thing you could do with this is since we have the build a settlement system is custom build faction bases for use for a mod like this so it won't cause any possible problems with other quests. Like one major raider strong hold ruled by the biggest baddest raider of all who demands the rest all send him tribute from time to time, a reason for why the PC is sent there. Then you could make the area how you want and be able to set up miniquests on serving or trying to escape etc.

 

Don't mean to derail the OP's topic with this but just felt the need to respond to the above.

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balabalabala...

 

When I say "I've played a lot of this kind of game", it's really "a lot of", maybe over 50 lol. In fact I've tried to make a game of this type of my own. So I've already thought and even tested for some times, and found it really a contradiction for a female PC. While male PC has no such problems [*]

 

That is to say, for these types of QTE scene,as female PC, you want to:

1, get rid of the scene so you can back to combat

2, watch the sex scene

A game should not make such contradiction. But for most people (like me ) they don't want to use a male character...

 

 

 

So have I (Except the "Tried making a game" part). Have you played the MaTM demo as I suggested? The sex "scenes" are all in the context of combat (Except for pre-defined events, ie boss battles), and your efforts to avoid them finishing, or starting in the first place will directly affect your ability in combat. They don't break the flow, because the sex attacks are just that - attacks in and of themselves. More lengthy and varied scenes would take place upon defeat.

 

[*] I don't think the gender of the PC matters, just whether the PC is the victim or instigator. 

 

 

 

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

my idea as flows:

 

1,For pc as a victim, you won't get raped unless you have extrame low HP. basically it works like what "defeat" did in skrim, if the enemies change there combat type that want to catch you will be better. Easy to understand that you will die without the mod, so why not have a 20-30s of sex scene.

 

2,For pc as a perpetrator, you get a skill that could trigger the sex scene. It could rather be a 5-10 seconds of QTE type sex scene if sex-tec support it.

 

3,For npc vs npc, they act like pc as a perpetrator.

 

In addition, for FO4 I think have a feature of "join the sex" will be better. That is to say if there begin a sex scene, the nearby NPCs will try to join it. For example ,your follower can join your scene (to rescue you). If npcs from different camps begin to fight, it will endup as a big group sex party

 

1: The problem, or rather the limitation of what you suggest, is that's entirely binary. Is the player alive? No combat sex. Is the player "dead"? Sex. No in-between. The OP is almost entirely about the in-between, and making it intertwine with normal combat. Your supposition that it would break the flow of gameplay can also be easily addressed by the end-user: Just disable the mod if you want to concentrate on traditional combat. Regardless, it'd still be nice to have sex scenes as an alternative to death, and result in a "fission mailed" scenario like in Death Alternative, in addition to what I describe in the OP.

 

 

2: I think instead of having it a skill that you manually decide to choose, the ability to become a perpetrator yourself could be a "procedural" skill, like Adrenaline in survival mode - The longer you go without consensual sex (and/or masturbation), the more likely you're going to want to (and gain the ability to) instigate non-consensual sex. Arousal would factor in to this, above certain thresholds it could even trigger PC aggressing automatically - furthermore, indulging in this could make you addicted to it in the same way as chems, suffering additional drawbacks the longer you go. There would ideally be another few conditions that need to be met to be able to do it, for example chem/alcohol abuse, alignment with immoral factions (if/when mods/dlc/patches add support for doing so), or the amount of immoral things you do in normal gameplay (does it even keep a store of how many items you've stolen/non-hostiles you've killed?)

Alternate start mods, if/when any come along that let you play as a Raider or original character would be the only scenario I see it as really justifiable that you could choose to be an aggressor.

All this is feeding in to the role-playing aspect - If you were to just run around raping everything, why not just cut out the middleman and use the animation framework to manually trigger the scenes off-hand? 

 

3: ??? Not sure how to interpret this. Basically the way I see it working is there's a random chance that if an NPC is "killed", they're incapacitated instead and that can lead to sex. As for grapples, again random chance would determine whether the scene progresses etc. Having NPCs simulate, rather than emulate, the minigame would probably be wasteful in terms of both performance and modder workload.

 

As for NPCs "joining" an animation, I'm not sure what you mean. Animations for a third participant who breaks it up? I like the idea that a companion, or allied NPCs would try to melee the aggressor instead of just shooting them (If it's another potential aggressor they will melee too, but if it's an enemy who isn't interested in you, they'd just shoot.). Again, if NPCs have SPECIAL stats, their perception and/or intelligence could factor in to whether the aggressor reacts to this before being whacked in the face and abandons the grapple.

Gangbangs? That already goes without saying.

 

 

 

Would you like to see a man get fucked by a deathclaw? Could you imagine a scene how a female rape Yaoguai? Gender matters a lot of thing, really.

 

And then

1, The FO4 game itself has a realtime FPS type battle with. So it's better not to break it, unless you rewrite the whole combat system based on sex or so called "BF". And I don't catch what you mean about disable the mod. If I disable the mod for most time, why should I install it?

 

2, I think you didn't catch what I mean as a "skill". I used "skill" to show an act, like "press a hotkey and you start the sex scene". Buffs and status are otherkind of things. In fact, I realy were not care of them

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No I was saying stuff to add to what you was talking about. I am all for them if they feel they can over power you just charging you and over powering you. I was tossing out ways to tweak that with the struggling working the way I suggested and also ways for when they don't try and rush you where it could still happen randomly in combat by you getting stunned and the like.

Since as you said the combat AI is pretty horrible and having a few ways for it to trigger I think would be better than a single way.

 

Though I do think the everyone down makes more sense. I wouldn't think any raider would start to rape someone in the middle of a raging combat. Knock someone down and subdue them and perhaps tie them up in the middle of combat sure and then once the rest of combat is taking care of go back for their subdued victim.

 

As I said I wasn't suggesting to replace anything you said persay other than the action points part, I was making suggestions to tweak and add to what you had so far.

 

 

Oh sorry, I see. Don't take it as me trying to shoot down what you suggested, i appreciate the input. Yeah it would definitely need tweaking as all things would, additional triggers could be part of that.

" I wouldn't think any raider would start to rape someone in the middle of a raging combat. " - Don't you? :P If they have a huge advantage like numbers I don't see why they wouldn't, raiders might be human but they aren't smart - Creatures are another story. I can't make my mind up on which I'd prefer, because "all down" only removes the dynamism, but it's probably much "cleaner" from a modder's point of view. But to repeat the point, in this imaginary mod of ours, sex would be a part of combat - An enemy who tries to do it with no chance of succeeding would probably die in normal combat anyway, but this would give them a chance to gang up on you more effectively than they do with guns. Also falling victim to it would have immediate combat debuffs, and doing so too often would add some long-term debuffs and maybe certain bonuses. From a character's point of view, combat is a test of your ability to point and shoot. If you usually win in such situations, even against 10 enemies shooting you at once, they can still overpower you with raw physicality if you let them get close enough for that to be a threat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So have I (Except the "Tried making a game" part). Have you played the MaTM demo as I suggested? The sex "scenes" are all in the context of combat (Except for pre-defined events, ie boss battles), and your efforts to avoid them finishing, or starting in the first place will directly affect your ability in combat. They don't break the flow, because the sex attacks are just that - attacks in and of themselves. More lengthy and varied scenes would take place upon defeat.

 

[*] I don't think the gender of the PC matters, just whether the PC is the victim or instigator. 

 

 

 

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

my idea as flows:

 

1,For pc as a victim, you won't get raped unless you have extrame low HP. basically it works like what "defeat" did in skrim, if the enemies change there combat type that want to catch you will be better. Easy to understand that you will die without the mod, so why not have a 20-30s of sex scene.

 

2,For pc as a perpetrator, you get a skill that could trigger the sex scene. It could rather be a 5-10 seconds of QTE type sex scene if sex-tec support it.

 

3,For npc vs npc, they act like pc as a perpetrator.

 

In addition, for FO4 I think have a feature of "join the sex" will be better. That is to say if there begin a sex scene, the nearby NPCs will try to join it. For example ,your follower can join your scene (to rescue you). If npcs from different camps begin to fight, it will endup as a big group sex party

 

1: The problem, or rather the limitation of what you suggest, is that's entirely binary. Is the player alive? No combat sex. Is the player "dead"? Sex. No in-between. The OP is almost entirely about the in-between, and making it intertwine with normal combat. Your supposition that it would break the flow of gameplay can also be easily addressed by the end-user: Just disable the mod if you want to concentrate on traditional combat. Regardless, it'd still be nice to have sex scenes as an alternative to death, and result in a "fission mailed" scenario like in Death Alternative, in addition to what I describe in the OP.

 

 

2: I think instead of having it a skill that you manually decide to choose, the ability to become a perpetrator yourself could be a "procedural" skill, like Adrenaline in survival mode - The longer you go without consensual sex (and/or masturbation), the more likely you're going to want to (and gain the ability to) instigate non-consensual sex. Arousal would factor in to this, above certain thresholds it could even trigger PC aggressing automatically - furthermore, indulging in this could make you addicted to it in the same way as chems, suffering additional drawbacks the longer you go. There would ideally be another few conditions that need to be met to be able to do it, for example chem/alcohol abuse, alignment with immoral factions (if/when mods/dlc/patches add support for doing so), or the amount of immoral things you do in normal gameplay (does it even keep a store of how many items you've stolen/non-hostiles you've killed?)

Alternate start mods, if/when any come along that let you play as a Raider or original character would be the only scenario I see it as really justifiable that you could choose to be an aggressor.

All this is feeding in to the role-playing aspect - If you were to just run around raping everything, why not just cut out the middleman and use the animation framework to manually trigger the scenes off-hand? 

 

3: ??? Not sure how to interpret this. Basically the way I see it working is there's a random chance that if an NPC is "killed", they're incapacitated instead and that can lead to sex. As for grapples, again random chance would determine whether the scene progresses etc. Having NPCs simulate, rather than emulate, the minigame would probably be wasteful in terms of both performance and modder workload.

 

As for NPCs "joining" an animation, I'm not sure what you mean. Animations for a third participant who breaks it up? I like the idea that a companion, or allied NPCs would try to melee the aggressor instead of just shooting them (If it's another potential aggressor they will melee too, but if it's an enemy who isn't interested in you, they'd just shoot.). Again, if NPCs have SPECIAL stats, their perception and/or intelligence could factor in to whether the aggressor reacts to this before being whacked in the face and abandons the grapple.

Gangbangs? That already goes without saying.

 

 

 

Would you like to see a man get fucked by a deathclaw? Could you imagine a scene how a female rape Yaoguai? Gender matters a lot of thing, really.

 

And then

1, The FO4 game itself has a realtime FPS type battle with. So it's better not to break it, unless you rewrite the whole combat system based on sex or so called "BF". And I don't catch what you mean about disable the mod. If I disable the mod for most time, why should I install it?

 

2, I think you didn't catch what I mean as a "skill". I used "skill" to show an act, like "press a hotkey and you start the sex scene". Buffs and status are otherkind of things. In fact, I realy were not care of them

 

Well, some people might but that is besides the point: I was saying gender doesn't matter if you're playing as the aggressor, and being the aggressor against creatures isn't something I'd really want to see.

 

1: The point of this thread is to explore how sex can become a part of combat without making it the "objective". As for disabling the mod, yeah, if you think it would have a negative effect on your gameplay when you don't want to see these scenes you have the option to. In the ideal scenario we would have the option to just have it as a consequence of losing normal combat, in addition to the option of enabling/disabling something like what I suggested.

 

2: I think I get what you mean, but for future reference if somebody's talking about skills I usually think of perks. Anyway, as aggressor I think it would make sense to have to meet the same conditions an enemy has to to do to you, basically have a separate control to initiate a grapple then you have to win the mini-game.

 

 

 

I've done some work already about a death alternative mod, I will probably make a mod like this (well finish it I should say) and this time I want to focus on scenarios after a particular faction has defeated you, the radiant system in this game is waaaay better than Skyrim's, so far I created a simple scenario where when you are defeated by raiders you are teleported in the nearest raider base on a captive marker.

 

This is would be very cool, that is one of my only real issues with Defeat in Skyrim. I know you had said you was going to work on it and I understand it is really hard but I kept hoping. But making it so you get sent to a faction base and then have a simple quest system there would be very cool.

 

The other thing you could do with this is since we have the build a settlement system is custom build faction bases for use for a mod like this so it won't cause any possible problems with other quests. Like one major raider strong hold ruled by the biggest baddest raider of all who demands the rest all send him tribute from time to time, a reason for why the PC is sent there. Then you could make the area how you want and be able to set up miniquests on serving or trying to escape etc.

 

Don't mean to derail the OP's topic with this but just felt the need to respond to the above.

 

NP, all these things tie in to one another, and I agree

 

 

I've done some work already about a death alternative mod, I will probably make a mod like this (well finish it I should say) and this time I want to focus on scenarios after a particular faction has defeated you, the radiant system in this game is waaaay better than Skyrim's, so far I created a simple scenario where when you are defeated by raiders you are teleported in the nearest raider base on a captive marker.

 

This is would be very cool, that is one of my only real issues with Defeat in Skyrim. I know you had said you was going to work on it and I understand it is really hard but I kept hoping. But making it so you get sent to a faction base and then have a simple quest system there would be very cool.

 

The other thing you could do with this is since we have the build a settlement system is custom build faction bases for use for a mod like this so it won't cause any possible problems with other quests. Like one major raider strong hold ruled by the biggest baddest raider of all who demands the rest all send him tribute from time to time, a reason for why the PC is sent there. Then you could make the area how you want and be able to set up miniquests on serving or trying to escape etc.

 

Don't mean to derail the OP's topic with this but just felt the need to respond to the above.

 

NP, all these things tie in to one another, and I agree

 
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Well, some people might but that is besides the point: I was saying gender doesn't matter if you're playing as the aggressor, and being the aggressor against creatures isn't something I'd really want to see.

 

 

 

1: The point of this thread is to explore how sex can become a part of combat without making it the "objective". As for disabling the mod, yeah, if you think it would have a negative effect on your gameplay when you don't want to see these scenes you have the option to. In the ideal scenario we would have the option to just have it as a consequence of losing normal combat, in addition to the option of enabling/disabling something like what I suggested.

 

 

 

2: I think I get what you mean, but for future reference if somebody's talking about skills I usually think of perks. Anyway, as aggressor I think it would make sense to have to meet the same conditions an enemy has to to do to you, basically have a separate control to initiate a grapple then you have to win the mini-game.

Then it roll back. Let's say even the killing move of a death claw cost only about 5 seconds with one action, While I can't think of a sex scene less than 10 seconds,even in a 2D games it'll be wired that the enemy come in 5 seconds

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No I was saying stuff to add to what you was talking about. I am all for them if they feel they can over power you just charging you and over powering you. I was tossing out ways to tweak that with the struggling working the way I suggested and also ways for when they don't try and rush you where it could still happen randomly in combat by you getting stunned and the like.

Since as you said the combat AI is pretty horrible and having a few ways for it to trigger I think would be better than a single way.

 

Though I do think the everyone down makes more sense. I wouldn't think any raider would start to rape someone in the middle of a raging combat. Knock someone down and subdue them and perhaps tie them up in the middle of combat sure and then once the rest of combat is taking care of go back for their subdued victim.

 

As I said I wasn't suggesting to replace anything you said persay other than the action points part, I was making suggestions to tweak and add to what you had so far.

 

 

Oh sorry, I see. Don't take it as me trying to shoot down what you suggested, i appreciate the input. Yeah it would definitely need tweaking as all things would, additional triggers could be part of that.

" I wouldn't think any raider would start to rape someone in the middle of a raging combat. " - Don't you? :P If they have a huge advantage like numbers I don't see why they wouldn't, raiders might be human but they aren't smart - Creatures are another story. I can't make my mind up on which I'd prefer, because "all down" only removes the dynamism, but it's probably much "cleaner" from a modder's point of view. But to repeat the point, in this imaginary mod of ours, sex would be a part of combat - An enemy who tries to do it with no chance of succeeding would probably die in normal combat anyway, but this would give them a chance to gang up on you more effectively than they do with guns. Also falling victim to it would have immediate combat debuffs, and doing so too often would add some long-term debuffs and maybe certain bonuses. From a character's point of view, combat is a test of your ability to point and shoot. If you usually win in such situations, even against 10 enemies shooting you at once, they can still overpower you with raw physicality if you let them get close enough for that to be a threat.

 

No worries, well as for the raiders in combat. Like I said I could see say 5 raiders in the middle of combat even if say there was a deathclaw in the combat for a 3 way combat. I could see them rushing the PC, subduing the PC and tying the PC up. Then turning to fight the Deathclaw, once the Deathclaw was defeated, then the raiders would come back to their tied up prize.

 

I think that would work better for a few reasons.

1) Any raider that started to take part in the prize while the rest fought for their lives I don't think would live long, as the other raiders would likely kill them after the fight for not helping.

2) It would give the PC a chance to try and work free from being bound and then try and escape while the raiders where still busy.

3) It might not be the raiders that win that come over to take advantage of the PC all tied up.

 

I just think it would add more diversity and uncertainty to encounters on those rare times where their is a 3way fight going on.

 

Also I will expand on why I don't like the AP bar idea.

The AP bar is kinda set and not modified by str or gender or melee skill and those are three things I think should have a big impact. Someone with a high strength should win in a grapple more than a low strength. Someone skilled in melee/hand to hand combat is going to win a grapple more than someone who is not and men will win in a grapple over women more often because of the size difference. AP doesn't take any of that into account, so making your own struggle bar would let you take that stuff into account.

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No I was saying stuff to add to what you was talking about. I am all for them if they feel they can over power you just charging you and over powering you. I was tossing out ways to tweak that with the struggling working the way I suggested and also ways for when they don't try and rush you where it could still happen randomly in combat by you getting stunned and the like.

Since as you said the combat AI is pretty horrible and having a few ways for it to trigger I think would be better than a single way.

 

Though I do think the everyone down makes more sense. I wouldn't think any raider would start to rape someone in the middle of a raging combat. Knock someone down and subdue them and perhaps tie them up in the middle of combat sure and then once the rest of combat is taking care of go back for their subdued victim.

 

As I said I wasn't suggesting to replace anything you said persay other than the action points part, I was making suggestions to tweak and add to what you had so far.

 

 

Oh sorry, I see. Don't take it as me trying to shoot down what you suggested, i appreciate the input. Yeah it would definitely need tweaking as all things would, additional triggers could be part of that.

" I wouldn't think any raider would start to rape someone in the middle of a raging combat. " - Don't you? :P If they have a huge advantage like numbers I don't see why they wouldn't, raiders might be human but they aren't smart - Creatures are another story. I can't make my mind up on which I'd prefer, because "all down" only removes the dynamism, but it's probably much "cleaner" from a modder's point of view. But to repeat the point, in this imaginary mod of ours, sex would be a part of combat - An enemy who tries to do it with no chance of succeeding would probably die in normal combat anyway, but this would give them a chance to gang up on you more effectively than they do with guns. Also falling victim to it would have immediate combat debuffs, and doing so too often would add some long-term debuffs and maybe certain bonuses. From a character's point of view, combat is a test of your ability to point and shoot. If you usually win in such situations, even against 10 enemies shooting you at once, they can still overpower you with raw physicality if you let them get close enough for that to be a threat.

 

No worries, well as for the raiders in combat. Like I said I could see say 5 raiders in the middle of combat even if say there was a deathclaw in the combat for a 3 way combat. I could see them rushing the PC, subduing the PC and tying the PC up. Then turning to fight the Deathclaw, once the Deathclaw was defeated, then the raiders would come back to their tied up prize.

 

I think that would work better for a few reasons.

1) Any raider that started to take part in the prize while the rest fought for their lives I don't think would live long, as the other raiders would likely kill them after the fight for not helping.

2) It would give the PC a chance to try and work free from being bound and then try and escape while the raiders where still busy.

3) It might not be the raiders that win that come over to take advantage of the PC all tied up.

 

I just think it would add more diversity and uncertainty to encounters on those rare times where their is a 3way fight going on.

 

Also I will expand on why I don't like the AP bar idea.

The AP bar is kinda set and not modified by str or gender or melee skill and those are three things I think should have a big impact. Someone with a high strength should win in a grapple more than a low strength. Someone skilled in melee/hand to hand combat is going to win a grapple more than someone who is not and men will win in a grapple over women more often because of the size difference. AP doesn't take any of that into account, so making your own struggle bar would let you take that stuff into account.

 

Good points on all, I agree actually. Though raider infighting would be pretty funny :P But I especially like it for 2). 

I still think (most) creatures should be exempt (not so much animals, if we're making that distinction). If a scene is happening between a victim and say a bloatfly, the raiders would probably just watch, then kill it and have their turns.

Problem in such a situation is how "Alternate death" is triggered - perhaps only once all potential aggressors have been exhausted after defeat.

For AP/Not AP, I do agree with you again, but writing up whole different system just for the sake of handling this might be inefficient. I guess that's up to whoever makes it, if it ever happens.

 

Also I had another "idea" that ties in with this: Destructible clothing. In short, take too much damage without repairing your armor/clothing and it is unequipped, and can't be re-equipped until repaired at a workbench. Repairing would just require some basic materials, pretty much just steel, cloth or leather depending on what it is, and it'd be fully repaired every time. To balance it out, destroyed armor would have its weight reduced to 10% until repaired, meaning you can replace it in a pinch with whatever you manage to find without much penalty beyond the difference in stats. Armor would always retain its normal stats until destroyed because having it like NV's durability system would again, be more work.

As for how durable on average armor is, that could be configurable as a factor of your endurance. I think somewhere around enough damage to kill the PC twice over would be about right for a chest piece, while arm/leg/head pieces would be 20% of that. On survival mode that means like 8 shots, and considering how generally easy it is to avoid being hit I think it'd be reasonable. I'd like it regardless of what we're discussing here, but it'd probably add to this more than the base gameplay.

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Also I will expand on why I don't like the AP bar idea.

The AP bar is kinda set and not modified by str or gender or melee skill and those are three things I think should have a big impact. Someone with a high strength should win in a grapple more than a low strength. Someone skilled in melee/hand to hand combat is going to win a grapple more than someone who is not and men will win in a grapple over women more often because of the size difference. AP doesn't take any of that into account, so making your own struggle bar would let you take that stuff into account.

 

 

I think that makes sense. There is also a mod on nexus for non-lethal/lethal combat which modifies blunt weapons so that they knock down and disarm npcs or the player on a good hit to the head or chest. That mechanic might provide a nice transition. It is quite disorienting for the player. Doesn't go anywhere at present when the player is hit, and the melee weapons are nerfed so as to be unusable for anything besides knocking people down.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11211/?

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Also I will expand on why I don't like the AP bar idea.

The AP bar is kinda set and not modified by str or gender or melee skill and those are three things I think should have a big impact. Someone with a high strength should win in a grapple more than a low strength. Someone skilled in melee/hand to hand combat is going to win a grapple more than someone who is not and men will win in a grapple over women more often because of the size difference. AP doesn't take any of that into account, so making your own struggle bar would let you take that stuff into account.

 

 

I think that makes sense. There is also a mod on nexus for non-lethal/lethal combat which modifies blunt weapons so that they knock down and disarm npcs or the player on a good hit to the head or chest. That mechanic might provide a nice transition. It is quite disorienting for the player. Doesn't go anywhere at present when the player is hit, and the melee weapons are nerfed so as to be unusable for anything besides knocking people down.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11211/?

 

Oh wow nice find, it even has non-lethal grenades like I was talking about.

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