killer keo UNPB texture problems

[tayelion]

so as some of you might know, the original version of killer keos' vanilla armor stuff has a problem where texture variations to armors don't apply, i.e. all guard armors are stormcloak colored, barmaid clothing is always the same color, and so on (it even affects mod-added items that use vanilla meshes w/ new textures!)

luckily, someone made a fix for it, which is here: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/60862/?

 

but sadly, the UNPB version (found here: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/34100/?)has the same issue as the original, and the fix doesn't work for it! is it possible for someone with almost zero actual modding knowledge (i.e. me) to fix this?

 

thanks in advance!

[WraithSlayer]

For what it's worth, the fix isn't working for me either, and I use the original CBBE version. Granted, I don't have the issue with guard armors (according to TES5Edit, CalienteVanillaArmorTweaks.esp fixes those already) but I do with other outfits like the barkeep's clothes variant.

[tayelion]

that's pretty annoying, huh

 

i wonder if the fix is something simple

 

edit: so i managed to find this thread: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/21658-texture-problems-with-stormcloaks-armor/

 

but it still doesn't explain how to fix the problem, just what the problem is
and since i can't really understand it, my knowledge on how to fix it remains at zero

[WraithSlayer]

I've tried messing around with it with TES5Edit, trying to mimick the way the Caliente ESP does it, but it only changed the barkeep variant clothes to the correct color around the chest area, the skirt still has the default color. If I figure out how this works I'll let you know.

[tayelion]

whoah, what a quick reply! thanks much!

[WraithSlayer]

Okay, this issue is making me question my sanity now. I'm getting the alternate texture color with or without the fix mod, but I'm pretty sure it was using the default texture before I started tinkering with it. I thought that maybe I accidentally edited the unofficial patch with TES5Edit to include the fix, but that wasn't it.

 

All I can tell you is to try to take the CalienteVanillaArmorTweaks.esp out of this mod (you don't want the mesh files or anything since you're UNP), and load that ESP as the last item in your load order. If I understand correctly, it should fix the guard armors by pointing them towards the correct textures; if not, just get rid of the ESP. As for the non-guard armors, I honestly have no clue what's going on with my game so I can't really tell you how to fix them, at least not yet.

[tayelion]

sorry, that doesn't seem to fix it

the correct color is applied to a small section of the guard armor, but that's obviously not correct, and it doesn't work for any of the other clothes

crap

[tayelion]

(sorry for double posting)
 

do you think it's possible to look at the original mod (not the unpb version) and the fix (from my first post) side by side to try and see what the difference is?

[WraithSlayer]

Okay, so this is how it works: all armors/clothes have a default texture set defined in their .NIF file. When an armor/clothing item doesn't define an alternate texture, they use the default one defined in the mesh; otherwise, they override the default texture with the specified one. When overriding a texture, you need to specify a parameter called 3D index. If the index is wrong, then the override texture won't get applied, and you'll see the default one instead.

 

From what I can see, all vanilla armors use a 3D index of 0, but KillerKeos' replacers use an index of 1, which causes the bug of any armors that use a non-default texture will look identical to armors using the default texture (ie: all guard armors look like stormcloak). The KillerKeos patch you linked (which is intended for CBBE) solves this by setting the index to 1, so it matches the edited meshes. I can only assume the reason you don't see the different guard armors with or without the patch, is because whoever made the UNPB conversions is not using a 3D index of 0 or 1, but rather something else. Therefore, to fix this you'd have to open keo-guard-cuirass-fix.esp with TES5Edit and edit the 3D index of each armor add-on form to the correct number. I assume NifSkope can be used to figure out what the correct number would be, but I just used trial-and-error to get to the bottom of my own issue.

[tayelion]

alright, i'm trying to wrap my head around all of this
thank you for helping as much as you have been

basically the outfits now have a wrong number value somewhere, and you're saying that i should use TES5Edit to change that number to the right one, yeah?

could i use TES5Edit or nifskope or whatever to go into the killerkeos' unpb version mod and change those numbers to 0? that seems like the easiest way to do it, but i don't even know if it's possible

[WraithSlayer]

alright, i'm trying to wrap my head around all of this

thank you for helping as much as you have been

basically the outfits now have a wrong number value somewhere, and you're saying that i should use TES5Edit to change that number to the right one, yeah?

could i use TES5Edit to go into the killerkeos' unpb version mod and change those numbers to 0? that seems like the easiest way to do it, but i don't even know if it's possible

 

I'm finishing patching up my own game's armors and I ran into one specifically (RedguardClothesDBOutfitAA) that uses multiple 3D indexes, which allowed me to understand the correlation between 3D indexes and NifSkope. Essentially, the 3D index corresponds to the order of the NiTriShape listed in NifSkope, with the first NiTriShape being index 0, the second index 1, and so on.

 

With that knowledge, I opened up one of the mesh files from the UNPB conversion mod, and it looks like it uses 3 mesh parts, with the third storing the actual armor mesh. That means you want an index of 2 instead of 1 for the textures. You can open keo-guard-cuirass-fix.esp with TES5Edit and look where it's editing the 3D index from 0 to 1, make it edit it from 0 to 2 instead. That should solve the issue entirely.

[tayelion]

sadly, that doesn't seem to work

i tried setting it to 0 as well, but to no avail

this also wouldn't apply to armors that aren't in the fix file, like dragonscale (textures from this mod http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/75042 showup as vanilla, like guard armors and blah blah everything affected by the unpb version has this problem)
can i edit the UNPB mod directly?

[WraithSlayer]

can i edit the UNPB mod directly?

Not really. The problem is your UNPB mod uses 3 mesh parts instead of 1. You could lobotomize each mesh file to only have 1 part instead, so it matches the vanilla mesh and the texture override works,  but I'm guessing it wouldn't look as intended, since those other 2 mesh parts were probably put there for a reason.

 

 

this also wouldn't apply to armors that aren't in the fix file, like dragonscale (textures from this mod http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/75042 showup as vanilla, like guard armors and blah blah everything affected by the unpb version has this problem)

 

Variant texture mods that rely on the base mesh would have to be edited as well, using the same process.

 

I'm gonna try one last thing. Try the ESP I'm including in this post, and equip a Markarth cuirass (00021508). If it's green colored, then I know what the problem is, but if it's stormcloak blue, then I have no idea how to help you.

 

 

Keo-UNP-fix.7z

[tayelion]

It works!

[WraithSlayer]

Alright, good! So the issue is that all 3 mesh parts need to receive the texture override, not just index-2. I only fixed it for the Markarth cuirass, but it should be easy for you to replicate for the others. Open the ESP in TES5Edit, select StormcloakCuirassMarkarthAA, and note how the alternate textures section is set, with indices 0, 1 and 2 all pointing towards StormCloakMarkarthF [TXST:00021509]. You need to replicate this for the other 7 Guard meshes, making all their 3 indices point towards their corresponding texture. (for example, Riften armor would use StormCloakRiftenF [TXST:00021505])

 

As for the non-guard armors, the method to fix them is the same, even for your Dragonscale mod, but the number of indices you need to override may be higher than 0-2. For example, a .NIF file that has 5 NiTriShapes defined would need you to override indices 0 through 4.

[tayelion]

the markarth one seems to be the only one with three sections (as you can see in the second picture, which is of a riften cuirass)

is this what i'm supposed to be seeing?

[WraithSlayer]

That's correct, you need to add a third index to the Riften one, and the others. Right-click the empty yellow space that aligns with the MO3S - Alternate Textures header, and there'll be an Add option. Once added, edit it to have an index of 2 and point towards the Riften texture.

[tayelion]

alright, so i tried it and it didn't work
but then i changed the "3d name" sections on one of the guard armors so that it was the same as the markarth armors, and it worked!

this is great on one hand, because i know how to fix the guard stuff

but i really have honestly no idea how changing the 3d names did anything, and i don't know how you got those names in the first place, either

maybe it didn't work the first time because the indexes i added didn't have names at all, and you need one for it to work? if that's not the case, i'm lost on how to do the other ones in the set

 

finally question number 2 would be: since there are no dragonscale indexes here, how would i go about fixing that texture thing? i know it's not from the dragonscale mod itself, since the textures work when using normal keo stuff


thanks for all of your help
we're so close to wrapping it all up at this point!

 

EDIT:

ok, i tested having a random name in the 3d name section, and it works! this is great!

now only the second question matters (and also a super small one: how do i find how many NiTriShapes a .nif has?)

[WraithSlayer]

alright, so i tried it and it didn't work

but then i changed the "3d name" sections on one of the guard armors so that it was the same as the markarth armors, and it worked!

this is great on one hand, because i know how to fix the guard stuff

but i really have honestly no idea how changing the 3d names did anything, and i don't know how you got those names in the first place, either

maybe it didn't work the first time because the indexes i added didn't have names at all, and you need one for it to work? if that's not the case, i'm lost on how to do the other ones in the set

 

Oh, strange. I did a test earlier and it didn't seem like the 3D name field was important, so I didn't mention it, but I did use the correct UNPB names for Markarth just in case. I guess it was important after all.

 

I got the names straight from the .NIF file. Navigate to data\meshes\armor\stormcloaks and open cuirassf_1.nif with NifSkope, then expand the NiNode on the top-left. You'll see 3 NiTriShapes; you'll recognize their names, as they match the indices I defined for the markarth armor, in order. Incidentally, this is the same process that allows you to know how many NiTriShapes a mesh has, so you'll know how many indices to override.

 

 

finally question number 2 would be: since there are no dragonscale indexes here, how would i go about fixing that texture thing? i know it's not from the dragonscale mod itself, since the textures work when using normal keo stuff

 

If the dragonscale mod uses different textures for the same armor mesh, then it has to have its own Armor Add-On definitions. Open both the dragonscale mod and the UNPB fix ESP in TES5Edit, then browse the Armor Add-on section of the dragonscale mod and identify which armors need fixing. For every armor add-on that needs to be fixed, right-click it and select "Copy as override into...". Select the UNPB fix mod in the list. It'll ask you to add the dragonscale mod as a master, respond Yes. Now go back to the UNP fix mod, and you'll see the dragonscale armor has been imported. At this point, just follow the same process to add the indices, and you're done. Your UNPB fix mod will now override the appropriate records, and even if you update your dragonscale mod to a new version, the fixes will remain in place.

[tayelion]

I'm super excited now
i'll test it immediately!

oh, you may not have seen the edit to my post above
sorry if i changed that while you were reading it or something

[WraithSlayer]

oh, you may not have seen the edit to my post above

sorry if i changed that while you were reading it or something

 

I did, but I had already typed the response to the 3D name problem, so I figured I'd let it stay, even if your test also shows it's not actually important. I also covered the question about the number of NiTriShapes, so I don't think I've missed any questions.

[tayelion]

sorry, I was away for a bit!
anyway, the dragonscale stuff works now! i'll upload the fix once i apply it to every armor on the list, and i'll include one with the dragonscale stuff too if somebody wants that. Once I post them I'll mark this thread as solved! thank you so much!

[WraithSlayer]

Good to hear!

[tayelion]

Here are the fixes! I hope these help anyone with the same problems!

keo unpb fix dragonscale.zip

keo unpb fix.zip