Until G.E.C.K came out, we couldn't make stuff! But now we can!

[Grumpf]

As the title suggested. Meaning, before you ask anything: keep in mind modders can't really do that much now. Tools to mod haven't been released so most posts will be ideas and general discussions about future projects.

 

[Grumpf]

Now we can !!! Thanks CPU for the warning.

[Guest]

The official name is CK, and it is 95% the same as Skyrim.

Also the official page is the same as the one for Skyrim CK, you just go now to a "landing page" and then select Skyrim (left) or FO4 (right.)

 

[ag12]

The official name is CK, and it is 95% the same as Skyrim.

Also the official page is the same as the one for Skyrim CK, you just go now to a "landing page" and then select Skyrim (left) or FO4 (right.)

 

It may seem like 95%, but in reality it's only 94%.

Jokes aside - happy modding everyone.

[sgfhk321]

So how much can be "carried over" from Skyrim to speed up the process? Or it is necessary to start from scratch again?

[ag12]

In terms of meshes/animations etc. I have no clue. I doubt it's easy to transfer over without the FNIS equivalent for F4.

 

In terms of scripts however: 90% of the scripts work without change. However, some functionality like RegisterForUpdate() and event OnUpdate() are now handled by new functions StartTimer() and OnTimer(). So all scripts that employ timers need to be adjusted. Also, for a lot of scripting stuff new functions exist that make earlier work-arounds obsolete. Generally, the new CK offers a lot of new, great features that simplify stuffs and offer performance saving ways of doing things.

[Guest]

So how much can be "carried over" from Skyrim to speed up the process? Or it is necessary to start from scratch again?

 

Pretty much all from scratch.

Logic is the same, but the actual contents are not.

[pinkpunkt]

In terms of meshes/animations etc. I have no clue. I doubt it's easy to transfer over without the FNIS equivalent for F4.

 

In terms of scripts however: 90% of the scripts work without change. However, some functionality like RegisterForUpdate() and event OnUpdate() are now handled by new functions StartTimer() and OnTimer(). So all scripts that employ timers need to be adjusted. Also, for a lot of scripting stuff new functions exist that make earlier work-arounds obsolete. Generally, the new CK offers a lot of new, great features that simplify stuffs and offer performance saving ways of doing things.

 

I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere, that F4 doesnt need FNIS.

[ag12]

 

In terms of meshes/animations etc. I have no clue. I doubt it's easy to transfer over without the FNIS equivalent for F4.

 

In terms of scripts however: 90% of the scripts work without change. However, some functionality like RegisterForUpdate() and event OnUpdate() are now handled by new functions StartTimer() and OnTimer(). So all scripts that employ timers need to be adjusted. Also, for a lot of scripting stuff new functions exist that make earlier work-arounds obsolete. Generally, the new CK offers a lot of new, great features that simplify stuffs and offer performance saving ways of doing things.

 

I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere, that F4 doesnt need FNIS.

 

 

Whaaat? That would be truly good news. I don't believe that until I see it ingame.

[DexesTTP]

So how much can be "carried over" from Skyrim to speed up the process? Or it is necessary to start from scratch again?

 

The idea is to only carry over what makes sense : things that worked before and weren't relying on the engine quirks... So not much I'm afraid.

The problem is to not only make things but make good things. A framework thrown away in a few hours might work but there will probably be lots of bugs existing in it, and then people will still build on the framework, and some of the bugs/problems can't be solved.

So it's better for modders to take their time to adapt to the FO4 things, then make a framework, rather than rush in a version and make "great mods" uselessly difficult to create later.

 

In terms of meshes/animations etc. I have no clue. I doubt it's easy to transfer over without the FNIS equivalent for F4.

FNIS has nothing to do with FO4, actually. All FNIS did is now done directly by the game engine, so that's good.

 

About creating animations, this hasn't much to do with the pre-FO4 work either. There's near to no way to convert stuff the way it was done for Skyrim I believe.

 

The transfer part is also a good idea, but the skeletons changed. It would be possible to convert the anims if we had tools, but in no way would it be as trivial as clicking a button, probably more like several hours of work... if we even get the tools.

[ag12]

Alright, as I said I'm from the scripting corner, not the animation corner so I wouldn't know anything about the difficulties of making F4 animations.
What are the tools we are waiting for then? Do they still use Havok Content Tools or what's the issue?

[DexesTTP]

Oh, they sure do still use Havok Content Tools. But we don't because the "free" version for Fallout 4 (hk2014-1.0-r1 x64) doesn't exist anymore (we only have the x32 version). So the whole "call the Havok framework to convert animations for us" thing doesn't work, and we're stuck with making our own tools from A to Z.

 

We aren't really waiting for tools - I mean, maybe others are but I am not. Given that the only way to get things that work and don't cost $40 000.00 (real price) is to make it, then I'm making it.

So the idea of the tools is to have : a tool that can read the animations from the game files and put it in e.g. a Blender file - a tool that can take e.g. a blender file and write it for the game. This will already be an awesome start.

Then, with luck someone else will make something that take Skyrim/FO3/FONV or even Oblivion files, and "help" convert it to FO4. I won't be doing that though.

[AsariX]

Alright, as I said I'm from the scripting corner, not the animation corner so I wouldn't know anything about the difficulties of making F4 animations.

What are the tools we are waiting for then? Do they still use Havok Content Tools or what's the issue?

 

Different Havok tools, Havok 64 instead of 32. And those are not freely available like the Havok 32 tools were.

Dexes (who posted right above you) is working on something, including deciphering the new file formats and everything, but, last I heard, it's not yet complete and some things still give unexpected results.

But, since you're a coder too, and if you also happen to be good at analyzing, you could look in his post in the Fallout General Discussion forum here and see if you can figure out some parts.

[ag12]

Oh, they sure do still use Havok Content Tools. But we don't because the "free" version for Fallout 4 (hk2014-1.0-r1 x64) doesn't exist anymore (we only have the x32 version). So the whole "call the Havok framework to convert animations for us" thing doesn't work, and we're stuck with making our own tools from A to Z.

 

We aren't really waiting for tools - I mean, maybe others are but I am not. Given that the only way to get things that work and don't cost $40 000.00 (real price) is to make it, then I'm making it.

So the idea of the tools is to have : a tool that can read the animations from the game files and put it in e.g. a Blender file - a tool that can take e.g. a blender file and write it for the game. This will already be an awesome start.

Then, with luck someone else will make something that take Skyrim/FO3/FONV or even Oblivion files, and "help" convert it to FO4. I won't be doing that though.

 

Good luck with creating that tool! Would be a great step forward for the modding community!

I hope you can achieve it.

 

Edit: @AsariX: Yeah, I'll have a brief look - but honestly it may be above my skillset. Also, I'm going to be putting most effort into creating the actual mods to employ the animations you guys come up with!

[Halstrom]

So its officially out of beta now?

[AsariX]

So its officially out of beta now?

 

No, it's in open beta now, but official release usually follows within two weeks then. (at least with Bethesda)

[ag12]

And even though it officially is still in beta it works. No need to wait for an official release - it's ready to go.

[Guest]

Not everything is available, a few menu items to edit some things are not yet working.

Some interfaces are really messy (but probably they will be messy forever.)

 

[fore]

 

In terms of meshes/animations etc. I have no clue. I doubt it's easy to transfer over without the FNIS equivalent for F4.

FNIS has nothing to do with FO4, actually. All FNIS did is now done directly by the game engine, so that's good.

 

I think you are a little too optimistic about the FO4 CK. Or, you underestimate the features of FNIS.

 

What I have seen from the FO4 CK screenshot in you thread we can assume that simple animations will work with out an FNIS aquivalent.

 

Maybe a VERY SIMPLE form of sequenced animations (several simple animations in a row) are also covered by the parameters. Although FNIS SA has a lot more features (like controlled sequence of cyclic and/or acyclic animations, custom exit events, ...) which certainly can't be provided by the CK parameters I have seen.

 

However, almost ALL Idle Animation parameters (sequence, blocking, no attacking, looping) did already exist IN THE SAME FORMAT in Skyrim CK, BUT HAD NO EFFECT. What makes you believe they have a meaning now?

 

And all the other FNIS functions? furniture animations, paired animations, killmoves, alternate animations (to make Sexy Move, PCEA2 combat animations, offset animations? Or a Skeleton Arm Fix when the first custom bones are added?

 

So far I haven't seen ANYTHING that makes me believe that "FNIS is now done by the game engine". You guys are really wasting time with this misconception.

 

I take every bet: YOU WILL NEED an FO4 FNIS aquivalent.

 

 

EDIT: I forgot AnimObjects. SOOO important for SL. 

[ag12]

 

 

In terms of meshes/animations etc. I have no clue. I doubt it's easy to transfer over without the FNIS equivalent for F4.

FNIS has nothing to do with FO4, actually. All FNIS did is now done directly by the game engine, so that's good.

 

I think you are a little too optimistic about the FO4 CK. Or, you underestimate the features of FNIS.

 

What I have seen from the FO4 CK screenshot in you thread we can assume that simple animations will work with out an FNIS aquivalent.

 

Maybe a VERY SIMPLE form of sequenced animations (several simple animations in a row) are also covered by the parameters. Although FNIS SA has a lot more features (like controlled sequence of cyclic and/or acyclic animations, custom exit events, ...) which certainly can't be provided by the CK parameters I have seen.

 

However, almost ALL Idle Animation parameters (sequence, blocking, no attacking, looping) did already exist IN THE SAME FORMAT in Skyrim CK, BUT HAD NO EFFECT. What makes you believe they have a meaning now?

 

And all the other FNIS functions? furniture animations, paired animations, killmoves, alternate animations (to make Sexy Move, PCEA2 combat animations, offset animations? Or a Skeleton Arm Fix when the first custom bones are added?

 

So far I haven't seen ANYTHING that makes me believe that "FNIS is now done by the game engine". You guys are really wasting time with this misconception.

 

I take every bet: YOU WILL NEED an FO4 FNIS aquivalent.

 

 

That's what I thought in the first place. Now I'm certain.

Well, I'm looking forward to see what you'll accomplish for Fallout 4 - I'm sure it'll solve all these issues.

[fore]

 

That's what I thought in the first place. Now I'm certain.

Well, I'm looking forward to see what you'll accomplish for Fallout 4 - I'm sure it'll solve all these issues.

 

 

Ehmm..  "you" means "me"? No, I'm out of modding.

 

I only follow that subject becasue I can't believe that after almost 6 months there is so little progress. Dexes is the only one anywhere I have heard about working on this matter. Or HAS worked on this matter. I'm sort of shocked.

 

After less than 8 months of Skyrim I have released the first generator, with a bag full of features. FO4 is WAY behind that pace.

[ag12]

 

 

That's what I thought in the first place. Now I'm certain.

Well, I'm looking forward to see what you'll accomplish for Fallout 4 - I'm sure it'll solve all these issues.

 

 

Ehmm..  "you" means "me"? No, I'm out of modding.

 

I only follow that subject becasue I can't believe that after almost 6 months there is so little progress. Dexes is the only one anywhere I have heard about working on this matter. Or HAS worked on this matter. I'm sort of shocked.

 

After less than 8 months of Skyrim I have released the first generator, with a bag full of features. FO4 is WAY behind that pace.

 

 

Hmm, yeah. I hope the pace picks up now that the CK is out. Sadly the only thing I ever managed was to get a simple struggle animation into Skyrim.. using FNIS.

I assume most people have put too much faith into the CK.

Also there usually is a very limited amount of people with the very specific knowledge to create a complex tool like FNIS combined with the interest in the matter to actually do it. You are one of them.

 

Never realized that you actually left the modding scene for good. That's a big fucking loss for everyone on here and over at the Nexus. If you ever pick up the tools again - that'd be great.

[Guest]

 

 

 

I think you are a little too optimistic about the FO4 CK. Or, you underestimate the features of FNIS.

 

What I have seen from the FO4 CK screenshot in you thread we can assume that simple animations will work with out an FNIS aquivalent.

 

Maybe a VERY SIMPLE form of sequenced animations (several simple animations in a row) are also covered by the parameters. Although FNIS SA has a lot more features (like controlled sequence of cyclic and/or acyclic animations, custom exit events, ...) which certainly can't be provided by the CK parameters I have seen.

 

However, almost ALL Idle Animation parameters (sequence, blocking, no attacking, looping) did already exist IN THE SAME FORMAT in Skyrim CK, BUT HAD NO EFFECT. What makes you believe they have a meaning now?

 

And all the other FNIS functions? furniture animations, paired animations, killmoves, alternate animations (to make Sexy Move, PCEA2 combat animations, offset animations? Or a Skeleton Arm Fix when the first custom bones are added?

 

So far I haven't seen ANYTHING that makes me believe that "FNIS is now done by the game engine". You guys are really wasting time with this misconception.

 

I take every bet: YOU WILL NEED an FO4 FNIS aquivalent.

 

 

EDIT: I forgot AnimObjects. SOOO important for SL. 

 

 

I fore, your point is gold as usual.

 

A couple of points:

In FO4 there are NO killmoves.

I didn't see any single paired animation (also if they seem to be defined.) And paired anims were a pain to be used in Skyrim 

Looping anims can be a serious problem. But before this we need to investigate the new OnAnimEvent event. In case it can be used (in Skyrim we needed a patch to use it) then cyclic anims can be just emulated by scripting.

I saw a function for playing an idle with an anim object. It was already there for Skyrim. But for Skyrim it was doing nothing. Also in this case we need (I am currently) investigating.

 

You know? You are one of my idols. Just saying. Thanks!

[Gaeuvyen]

 

 

 

 

A couple of points:

In FO4 there are NO killmoves.

 

What do you mean by no killmoves? there are kill animations. When you double tap the power melee attack on a target that will die from you hitting them,  it will play a special animation.

[fireklat1983]

were does one go to learn about all this stuff looks like there are just less people around that are interested in FO4 to do it. meaning others are going  have to learn, willing not sure were to start though guess google some stuff about havok and what not