Chronic Dissatisfaction

[dje34]

Are you aware of what makes evolution ?

 

To me it is Chronic Dissatisfaction.

 

When life appears, chronic dissatisfaction appears.

 

Life needs to move, breathe, eat and/or drink, excrete, sleep, reproduce, etc. and more and more complex it gets and more and more dissatisfied it is... and more complex a life form is and more complex it is to be satisfied, and it never ends until death as far as I know.

 

And then happens jealousy, greed, lust, hatred, etc.  but also admiration, generosity, chastity, kindness, etc.

 

 

When you are the subject of chronic dissatisfaction's dark side, meaning the feeling of a lack of something in your body or your mind, you are self-centered and then happens bad things like jealousy, greed, etc.

 

When you are the subject of chronic dissatisfaction's bright side (you could say 'chronic satisfaction') , meaning the feeling of a fullness of something in your body or your mind, you are other-centered and then happens good things like admiration, generosity, etc.

 

 

What do you scientists, philosophers, religious or just curious people think ?

[Suludi]

Evolution has nothing to do with emotions. It is a biochemical process.

 

Do you mean personal growth?

[Loveryus]

A little bit like the cup that is half empty instead of half full. You could call it "Chronic joy of improvement". When you decide to get kids, you hopefully don't do it, cause you're dissatisfied without them. (Poor kids if that's the case...) I think there's no point in seeing everything from such a negative angle.

[Caffeine Addict]

Interesting to see that "lust" is listed among the "dark side" and "chastity" among the "light side"....

[dje34]

Evolution has nothing to do with emotions. It is a biochemical process.

 

Do you mean personal growth?

 

But emotions have to do with evolution, right or wrong ?

 

Personal growth is a kind of evolution, but you could say emotions are the result of evolution, it didn't just appear like that, it is made for survival, so it is inside the evolution process.

Interesting to see that "lust" is listed among the "dark side" and "chastity" among the "light side"....

 

Who said that ?

 

Read carefully and tell me.

 

But you are right, I think lust is because of dissatisfaction and chastity because of satisfaction, I mean you wouldn't cheat on your lover if you are happy... or would you ? Repeatedly ? So now if you are happy with yourself and don't need anyone else to make you feel completely in love, isn't it satisfaction ? Now if you say satisfaction is a bad thing and dissatisfaction is a good thing, from what do you suffer ? Satisfaction ? Aren't you masochist ?

[dje34]

A little bit like the cup that is half empty instead of half full. You could call it "Chronic joy of improvement". When you decide to get kids, you hopefully don't do it, cause you're dissatisfied without them. (Poor kids if that's the case...) I think there's no point in seeing everything from such a negative angle.

 

Thanks for your answer, Loveryus.

 

But there is nothing in the cup, meaning everything is in the cup, the way you see it is just the way you think.

 

To me there is no point in seeing anything from an angle, you just have to see it the way it is, but we just can't do it like that. Don't you agree ?

 

Judgment. ( Wiki : is the evaluation of evidence to make a decision )  Isn't it a problem in evolution ?

[Caffeine Addict]

And then happens jealousy, greed, lust, hatred, etc.  but also admiration, generosity, chastity, kindness, etc.

 

 

Interesting to see that "lust" is listed among the "dark side" and "chastity" among the "light side"....

 

Who said that ?

 

Read carefully and tell me.

 

But you are right, I think lust is because of dissatisfaction and chastity because of satisfaction, I mean you wouldn't cheat on your lover if you are happy... or would you ? Repeatedly ? So now if you are happy with yourself and don't need anyone else to make you feel completely in love, isn't it satisfaction ? Now if you say satisfaction is a bad thing and dissatisfaction is a good thing, from what do you suffer ? Satisfaction ? Aren't you masochist ?

 

 

See the first quote: "Negative" things are mentioned (jealousy, greed, lust, hatred) and then "positve" things (seperated by the "also") which includes chastity.

 

I do not agree that "lust" is equal to cheating or betraying your lover. You can lust for your lover. Chastity is (in my opinion, mind you) just repressing something and therefore dissatisfying.

 

But maybe I do not get the whole idea behind your argumentation, since I am not really into all this "Zen" stuff.

[Loveryus]

 

A little bit like the cup that is half empty instead of half full. You could call it "Chronic joy of improvement". When you decide to get kids, you hopefully don't do it, cause you're dissatisfied without them. (Poor kids if that's the case...) I think there's no point in seeing everything from such a negative angle.

 

Thanks for your answer, Loveryus.

 

But there is nothing in the cup, meaning everything is in the cup, the way you see it is just the way you think.

 

To me there is no point in seeing anything from an angle, you just have to see it the way it is, but we just can't do it like that. Don't you agree ?

 

Judgment. ( Wiki : is the evaluation of evidence to make a decision )  Isn't it a problem in evolution ?

 

 

I agree. That's a problematic aspect of being human I guess. I sometimes wish I was more like a robot. I know how to think, feel and act to live a great life and be happy, but I can't cause my subconsciousness fucks me up. On the other hand games like Skyrim etc. show pretty well how unsatisfying a world full of robots would be, if everyone always acted correctly and logical.

[dje34]

 

 

A little bit like the cup that is half empty instead of half full. You could call it "Chronic joy of improvement". When you decide to get kids, you hopefully don't do it, cause you're dissatisfied without them. (Poor kids if that's the case...) I think there's no point in seeing everything from such a negative angle.

 

Thanks for your answer, Loveryus.

 

But there is nothing in the cup, meaning everything is in the cup, the way you see it is just the way you think.

 

To me there is no point in seeing anything from an angle, you just have to see it the way it is, but we just can't do it like that. Don't you agree ?

 

Judgment. ( Wiki : is the evaluation of evidence to make a decision )  Isn't it a problem in evolution ?

 

 

I agree. That's a problematic aspect of being human I guess. I sometimes wish I was more like a robot. I know how to think, feel and act to live a great life and be happy, but I can't cause my subconsciousness fucks me up. On the other hand games like Skyrim etc. show pretty well how unsatisfying a world full of robots would be, if everyone always acted correctly and logical.

 

 

Actually it's not about robots but it's about animals.

 

And we are animals because we naturally do the same things they do : eat, drink, mate, excrete, sleep, etc.

 

But this thread is about satisfaction and dissatisfaction, to me this is what life is all about, not only human beings but all life forms.

 

Different ways but same path.

[Killing Joke]

Sorry to reply to this thread with a question but don't you think that consumer society and its advertisement methods greatly contribute to our chronic dissatisfaction? By creating competition between people and put pressure on them to always be on top, and to achieve that, you really must by  x  or y product? 

This is a conversation I had with friends lately, but maybe I'm off topic.

[Guest Mogie56]

The study of the evolution of emotions dates back to the 19th century. Evolution and natural selection has been applied to the study of human communication, mainly by Charles Darwin in his 1872 work, The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals. Darwin researched the expression of emotions in an effort to support his theory of evolution. He proposed that much like other traits found in animals, emotions also evolved and were adapted over time. His work looked at not only facial expressions in animals and specifically humans, but attempted to point out parallels between behaviors in humans and other animals.

According to modern evolutionary theory, different emotions evolved at different times. Primal emotions, such as fear, are associated with ancient parts of the brain and presumably evolved among our premammal ancestors. Filial emotions, such as a human mother's love for her offspring, seem to have evolved among early mammals. Social emotions, such as guilt and pride, evolved among social primates. Sometimes, a more recently evolved part of the brain moderates an older part of the brain, such as when the cortex moderates the amygdala's fear response. Evolutionary psychologists consider human emotions to be best adapted to the life our ancestors led in nomadic foraging bands.

 

But Evolution itself has nothing to do with Emotion they only co-exist.

[dje34]

Sorry to reply to this thread with a question but don't you think that consumer society and its advertisement methods greatly contribute to our chronic dissatisfaction? By creating competition between people and put pressure on them to always be on top, and to achieve that, you really must by  x  or y product? 

This is a conversation I had with friends lately, but maybe I'm off topic.

 

It isn't off topic at all and I have to say it is totally true : our economical system lives because we are dissatisfied.

 

So the people ruling the "economical and political and religious and scientific and medical... " world do everything they can to make us dissatisfied but tell us how to be satisfied again, and the process continues.

 

Just love. It is the best weapon evolution gave us to enjoy life, so use it all you can. 

 

 

The study of the evolution of emotions dates back to the 19th century. Evolution and natural selection has been applied to the study of human communication, mainly by Charles Darwin in his 1872 work, The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals. Darwin researched the expression of emotions in an effort to support his theory of evolution. He proposed that much like other traits found in animals, emotions also evolved and were adapted over time. His work looked at not only facial expressions in animals and specifically humans, but attempted to point out parallels between behaviors in humans and other animals.

 

According to modern evolutionary theory, different emotions evolved at different times. Primal emotions, such as fear, are associated with ancient parts of the brain and presumably evolved among our premammal ancestors. Filial emotions, such as a human mother's love for her offspring, seem to have evolved among early mammals. Social emotions, such as guilt and pride, evolved among social primates. Sometimes, a more recently evolved part of the brain moderates an older part of the brain, such as when the cortex moderates the amygdala's fear response. Evolutionary psychologists consider human emotions to be best adapted to the life our ancestors led in nomadic foraging bands.

 

But Evolution itself has nothing to do with Emotion they only co-exist.

 

Thanks so much for your answer, Mogie56.

 

Very interesting and surely true.

 

But if evolution didn't create emotions than what did ? And if emotions don't have a role to play in evolution than why creating them ?

 

At the beginning of life (as far as I know) there is just a cell knowing it will die (according to me it is absolutely impossible a cell reproduces or multiplies for no conscious reason) so it reproduces (or multiplies) and then a new form is created, and so on... and when the life form stops reproducing (or multiplying) it makes something that will die. But with an inner reproducing (or multiplying) cell system. You could say it is a time bomb, but you could also say it is a life after life... because without reproducing cell system you would die pretty much instantly after birth. If I go further I can say there is life before birth, so there is surely life after death, not for the thinking you but for the living you.

 

Emotions are here to make the life form live longer and in better conditions. If not, why creating them ?

 

EDIT - To make myself clear, I don't talk about emotional dissatisfaction here but general dissatisfaction, you could say life process as we all have needs to be satisfied, like any living form on Earth.

[Guest Mogie56]

Emotions do evolve over time but not on a biological level, one is not created by the other but rather exists because of the other. If not for evolution emotion would not exist, but evolution would exist even without emotion. dissatisfaction is an emotion and evolves for better or worse but would not exist if not for emotion. and yes there is life after death but not for that which dies, only for that which is left behind. Life is a persistent state, but does not end for all, only for that which dies otherwise we would not exist nor would we have ever.

[Loveryus]

And we are animals because we naturally do the same things they do : eat, drink, mate, excrete, sleep, etc.

 

Thanks so much for pointing this out! Had a conversation about this a few days ago and you just took my side on it.

 

[dje34]

Emotions do evolve over time but not on a biological level, one is not created by the other but rather exists because of the other. If not for evolution emotion would not exist, but evolution would exist even without emotion. dissatisfaction is an emotion and evolves for better or worse but would not exist if not for emotion. and yes there is life after death but not for that which dies, only for that which is left behind. Life is a persistent state, but does not end for all, only for that which dies otherwise we would not exist nor would we have ever.

 

I am pleased to talk with you about evolution and life, you have an interesting point of view and a really scientific one it seems, I had this vision too until last year, and then I wasn't satisfied because I couldn't find the answers I was looking for, so I tried religion, Buddhism to tell its name.

 

And I now I'm a Buddhist as well as a scientist.

There are some answers Buddhism gave me that no science could, at least not the science I know about where everything needs to be in equation and demonstrated and proved again and again and again...

 

So I just started to observe. With the Buddhist mind, yes, but also with Christian mind as I was reading the New Testament during my meditating sessions and I found a real treasure ! Man ! So much truth. 

 

No need to put it in equation, it is obvious for who can observe inside and outside with an open mind, not the mind trying to analyze and control and dominate and master everything but the mind trying to not do all of these things.

 

It took some time but after reading, listening and welcoming all the wisdom I could I finally found truth : everything is connected, absolutely everything, if it exists then it has to exist and if it doesn't then it doesn't have to. As simple as that.

 

When I'm talking about Dissatisfaction I'm not talking about the emotional dissatisfaction but the sensation of dissatisfaction which creates all the other events, and if everything is connected, as I just can't deny the truth of this observation (and Einstein wouldn't disagree I think), then everything created by this sensation creates the sensation. It is just like pain and suffering, the pain appears and then you suffer and because you suffer the pain is here.

 

Now I've got a question : what dies ?

[GrimReaper]

Evolution doesn't do anything. Evolution is just a process that happens, like gravity, if you will. There's no thoughts, no goals and no expectations with evolution. It just happens. A giant meteor colliding with the earth and killing everything? Evolution. A new super virus that kills off all humans? Evolution. Total nuclear annihilation? Evolution. Evolution just describes anything that is. People often say that evolution is adapting to the environment, which isn't really true. Either you have the traits to survive in your current environment or you don't. Either you have the traits to survive in an altered environment or you don't - whatever killed the dinosaurs didn't kill many other species, but these species didn't develop with the goal to survive that what would eventually kill the dinosaurs. They just did, it was a coincidence, nothing more. The dinosaurs didn't. Also keep in mind that most species that lived on this planet are already extinct.

 

Evolution on a small scale is more like this: Think about rabbits in a mostly snowy environment. Naturally, white rabbits would survive and thus mate more often than their colored counterparts because white rabbits make less obvious prey in a white environment than say, brown rabbits. But if this species of rabbits wouldn't be able to have white fur, the species would most likely die out pretty quick. They wouldn't have enough time to develop the trait of having white fur - if they would ever be able to, mind you, because it's not set in stone that you will eventually develop a certain genetical trait - and would most likely just vanish from existence sooner or later. Evolution on the big scale is really nothing more than countless events of small scale evolution, more often that not leading to a dead end which results in one more species in the garbage bin. Even too many advantages can lead to destruction. Imagine a predator that can easily catch any prey they want. They would breed like crazy, eat all the things without giving their prey time to restock their numbers and that would lead to a weakened ecosystem that eventually can't provide the super predator with enough food anymore.

 

No matter how you try to interpret things, if you just look at the bare bones, there isn't really much to existing than just that. You are there and in the end you're not anymore. It's just a lot of throwing metaphorical dice around. If these dice are thrown around by somebody or just roll on their own is something everyone has to decide for him- or herself.

[Guest Mogie56]

 

 

Emotions do evolve over time but not on a biological level, one is not created by the other but rather exists because of the other. If not for evolution emotion would not exist, but evolution would exist even without emotion. dissatisfaction is an emotion and evolves for better or worse but would not exist if not for emotion. and yes there is life after death but not for that which dies, only for that which is left behind. Life is a persistent state, but does not end for all, only for that which dies otherwise we would not exist nor would we have ever.

 

I am pleased to talk with you about evolution and life, you have an interesting point of view and a really scientific one it seems, I had this vision too until last year, and then I wasn't satisfied because I couldn't find the answers I was looking for, so I tried religion, Buddhism to tell its name.

 

And I now I'm a Buddhist as well as a scientist.

There are some answers Buddhism gave me that no science could, at least not the science I know about where everything needs to be in equation and demonstrated and proved again and again and again...

 

So I just started to observe. With the Buddhist mind, yes, but also with Christian mind as I was reading the New Testament during my meditating sessions and I found a real treasure ! Man ! So much truth. 

 

No need to put it in equation, it is obvious for who can observe inside and outside with an open mind, not the mind trying to analyze and control and dominate and master everything but the mind trying to not do all of these things.

 

It took some time but after reading, listening and welcoming all the wisdom I could I finally found truth : everything is connected, absolutely everything, if it exists then it has to exist and if it doesn't then it doesn't have to. As simple as that.

 

When I'm talking about Dissatisfaction I'm not talking about the emotional dissatisfaction but the sensation of dissatisfaction which creates all the other events, and if everything is connected, as I just can't deny the truth of this observation (and Einstein wouldn't disagree I think), then everything created by this sensation creates the sensation. It is just like pain and suffering, the pain appears and then you suffer and because you suffer the pain is here.

 

 

Now I've got a question : what dies ?

 

What Dies?

Any living "Thing" which has reached the end of it's evolutionary cycle.

 

[Speakers]

Sorry to reply to this thread with a question but don't you think that consumer society and its advertisement methods greatly contribute to our chronic dissatisfaction? By creating competition between people and put pressure on them to always be on top, and to achieve that, you really must by  x  or y product? 

This is a conversation I had with friends lately, but maybe I'm off topic.

 

Most definitely. People are distracted, focus on the irrelevant, and miss the vital.

[dje34]

 

Sorry to reply to this thread with a question but don't you think that consumer society and its advertisement methods greatly contribute to our chronic dissatisfaction? By creating competition between people and put pressure on them to always be on top, and to achieve that, you really must by  x  or y product? 

This is a conversation I had with friends lately, but maybe I'm off topic.

 

Most definitely. People are distracted, focus on the irrelevant, and miss the vital.

 

 

Not people. There is no one, just the mind. The mind is missing the vital. Open it, love it, live it.