Prostitutes and Brothels in Skyrim: Thoughts and Discussion

[karlpaws]

Works mostly just fine.

 

I did the "delete the old and unzip the new" update method

 

2 potential problems...

 

I did not see her flower basket at first, but when she got up at 7 am and started walking around, she did mention having pretty flowers and liking me, so I knew she was in business and got my room. After she left the inn when we were done, she had the basket.

 

when I entered the Inn, she was to the right of the door, in the seating / eating area. Not sure how she got over there but she got kinda stuck. I think one of my city mods changes that inn, but I haven't had any problems with any other NPC, so I'm not sure what.  Bought a second flower to check, and entered the Inn ahead of her, and she made it in just fine... except for stopping to clap at the bard's singing. *shrug*

 

An idea you might want to try later (I have no idea what the difficulty level of this is) but in cities where you can buy a house, possibly check for that instead of a rented room, or either one?

 

 

[Kendo 2]

Works mostly just fine.

 

I did the "delete the old and unzip the new" update method

 

2 potential problems...

 

I did not see her flower basket at first, but when she got up at 7 am and started walking around, she did mention having pretty flowers and liking me, so I knew she was in business and got my room. After she left the inn when we were done, she had the basket.

 

when I entered the Inn, she was to the right of the door, in the seating / eating area. Not sure how she got over there but she got kinda stuck. I think one of my city mods changes that inn, but I haven't had any problems with any other NPC, so I'm not sure what.  Bought a second flower to check, and entered the Inn ahead of her, and she made it in just fine... except for stopping to clap at the bard's singing. *shrug*

Wrong thread but I'll answer anyway. 

 

She's in the BardAudienceExcludedFaction and shouldn't acknowledge them.  That might be Skyrim just being the quirky shit game it is.

Her not having the basket at first is a cell load issue.  Sometimes I get vanilla NPCs carrying invisible firewood; always been like that.

Her being too the far right of the door like she teleported away from the entrance happened to me too.  When I did her travel package to go to the room I assigned it prefered pathing so she wouldn't take crazy routes while walking in the city.   I think the prefered pathing inside the Winking Skeever is set up for the innkeeper so he will go straight from the bar to your room without walking in Skyrim circles.  I'll take a look at the cell and make sure.  If it's true I'll update the mod to remove her prefered pathing.

 

All of her AI packages are vanilla-standard.  I didn't do anything the vanilla game doesn't do.  I'll shrug right along with you.

 

As far as hookers in player homes go; maybe I should script them to steal stuff while they're there.  Do you really want a whore you picked up on the street IN YOUR HOUSE?  Once I get all of the street meat out of the way I'll start investigating how complex script timers work and THEN I'll add high-class call girls to the mod who will visit the four vanilla houses.  That will probably be part of the brothel's services.

[blabla11]

Are you at any point planning to implement NPC support?

If so, although I've seen your "no slavery" statement, would you consider adding some mechanic to add hookers by the player? (could also be a wife/husband the player is sending to work )

[Kendo 2]

Are you at any point planning to implement NPC support?

If so, although I've seen your "no slavery" statement, would you consider adding some mechanic to add hookers by the player? (could also be a wife/husband the player is sending to work )

NPC to NPC sex is beyond my skill set at the moment.  I would LIKE to have that as an immersion feature someday.

 

Once I make the brothel I intend to have few missions for the player.  One of those will be recruiting certain NPCs.  I haven't considered the possibilty of followers or spouses, but that is something to seriously consider.  Thanks for the idea. 

 

The way I have the brothel in my head, female player characters will be whores at the brothel and run errands.  Male player characters will be hired muscle and run errands.

 

The errands will be things like:

Go to Radiant Raiment and pick up the girls' new dresses.

Go to Black-Brair Meadery and deliver this invoice.

Convince Yarl XYZ's steward to let us have call girls in his city.

And other lame vanilla-type 'go-fetch-this-do-that' quests.

 

I have other ideas but I'm trying to avoid mod creep, where it just gets bigger and bigger until it's unfinished and unplayable.  No one is happy when that happens.

[Teddar]

Hey Kendo2. Just a quick point if you're looking at the bunkhouse in Riften as a venue. Before i upgraded to the latest Sexlab, i had to avoid sex in that cell as it was crash city. I think the game has trouble because there are three floors with beds almost on top of each other and it cant decide which to use. Also if i chose no bed, i crashed almost as often as i think Sexlab was trying to insist on me using one. I did some searching around and found others had the same problem and no one seems to have pinned down why it was happening. I think the issue might be fixed in SL1.6 but I thought id mention it just in case. 

[Kendo 2]

Thanks for the tip.

[Kendo 2]

Mini-update

I started on Abelone in Dawnstar tonight.  I think I have a somewhat interesting and plausible explanation for why she would hook.  We'll see. 

 

I've been thinking about the brothel aspect and I have decided it will be in Black-Briar lodge.  Here's the basic outline:

 

 

• Maven Black-Briar still owns the lodge but she isn't directly involved with the brothel.  Technically she might be considered 'the boss' but she's not.

 

• The brothel is ran by one of her 'business' associates from Cyrodiil.  They have an arrangement that will be hinted at, implying Maven owes him a huge favor or debt.  It will also be implied that he doesn't answer to her and runs the business as he sees fit.  I'm calling him MrBig for now.

 

• When the player first arrives at the brothel there will be MrBig, a few of his guards and one very sophisticated high class courtesan from the Imperial City.  That's it.  It will be obvious from the start MrBig and the Courtesan have some sort of relationship.  Business/pleasure/friendship all in one weird package.  MrBig also uses her as his advisor from time to time.  The Courtesan will be in charge of brothel services, arranging client lists, setting appointments, etc.

 

• MrBig will be in charge of the house itself; security, supplies, the bar, the accounting, regular non-sex entertainment, etc. He is like a business manager.

 

• Part of the mod's plot will be centered around acquiring more girls for the brothel.  There is a criteria that must be met for girls to be considered since they will be in residence at the brothel.  The reason why the brothel has no girls when the mod starts will be explained in-game.

 

• I have ideas for the necessary quests to flesh out the brothel while playing the mod: recruit various NPCs to work at the brothel, acquire rare or expensive alcohol to stock the bar, pick up new dresses from Radiant Raiment, hire a bard (who doesn't fucking sing) to entertain at the brothel on a permanent basis, convince various Jarls' Stewards to allow call girls to work in their cities.  There might be more but I think that is enough to get the brothel up and ready for customers.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Small warning on "Maven Black-Briar: for your last post.

This character is heavily scripted in quests (for the civil war) so better if you do not rely on her. (Or on the Riften jarl.)

These characters can just disappear depending on how you play the game.

 

I had this problem while developing CSB.

 

[worik]

If there's one person in Skyrim that can own a brothel, it has to be Maven. She has a lodge that can be converted into a brothel.

 

I agree totally

(.. and just had a "Home Delivery" from the RP mod for her )

[worik]

You're right, of course. I just thought you might think of a workaround or something.

 

I think a brothel should be located outside a town/city, but still relatively safe place to travel, such as the farms around Whiterun or the Honningbrew Meadery. There isn't such a building in the game as far as I know, but there might be a few empty areas that can be used to accommodate such a building. You might want to search Nexus for custom player homes that utilize one of those locations.

 

There is a mod that expands Whiterun on its east side http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37403with a proper map marker and a new city gate. And it also includes a large brothel with a mysterious basement!

But the mods seems not to be maintained anymore.

 

Nevertheless: it works and the existing brothel gives a nice background for TDFs prostitution mod or the working girl mod.

[43deadwood]

Love the idea of this mod - most other prostitution mods ignore the economics of the whole thing. I really like the idea of Haelga's bunkhouse as the brothel location - there's that big cellar with nothing much in it. Contrary to an earlier post I've never had problems with my PC having sex in the bunkhouse. One problem I see for using Black Briar lodge is that it might conflict with the quest about stealing the horse - doen't make much sense if the guards are friendly. Anyway it's your mod and I look forward to seeing it develop, especially if there's a possibility of PC involvement as a working girl. BTW like your follower mod!

[Kendo 2]

Love the idea of this mod - most other prostitution mods ignore the economics of the whole thing. I really like the idea of Haelga's bunkhouse as the brothel location - there's that big cellar with nothing much in it. Contrary to an earlier post I've never had problems with my PC having sex in the bunkhouse. One problem I see for using Black Briar lodge is that it might conflict with the quest about stealing the horse - doen't make much sense if the guards are friendly. Anyway it's your mod and I look forward to seeing it develop, especially if there's a possibility of PC involvement as a working girl. BTW like your follower mod!

I have solution for Black-Briar Lodge and the quest to get the horse Frost.  It is a role play solution, not the vanilla game one.

 

I've looked at the bunk house interior and I don't like the layout.  I would also have to tamper with vanilla dialogue and come up with a reasonable explanation why a vermin-infested flop house was transformed into a posh brothel.  And what would I do with the NPCs already there?  I'm not going to use them or change them to fit the brothel motif.  Tinkering with the bunk house is just asking for game-breaking trouble.

 

Black-Briar Lodge is used by one petty side quest.  After that quest is done the place is just another dungeon with leveled bandit spawns.  Changing the way the player gets Frost's lineage papers from one of straight combat to one of dialogue choices and skill checks is just as viable.

 

Another benefit to Black-Briar Lodge is no real NPCs ever use it.  The Black-Briar family members never go there so they wouldn't be affected by any changes I make.  Maven, Ingun and Sibbi wouldn't be touched by the mod.

The leveled bandit types at the lodge have defaultmaster AI packages and linked references so they will patrol and do other pointless stock Skyrim things.  Getting rid of them woudln't affect anything.

 

Another BIG bonus to the Lodge is the interior itself.  It isn't one solid shell and I can disassemble it and redesign the place to fit what I need.  It has two above ground levels and a basement.  I could add a vaulted entryway, balconies and other REAL architectural elements and really trick the place out.  It has one basement level and I can add more, maybe even an underground bath house or a swimming grotto.

 

And I'm glad you like the follower mod. 

[Kendo 2]

Beta version 0.4 has been uploaded.

 

Abelone in Dawnstar.

[Guest]

Just to confirm that Abelone quest is working fine.    (and she's hot too)

[vram1974]

I wonder about the concept of comfort girls for soldiers. They used to use them in wars in the past. Basically a pass around prozzie for the troops.

 

Wraithslayer has something like in Radiant Prostitution and obviously MoreBanditsCamps has slave girls. But I was thinking more along the lines of brothels, prostitutes for soldiers where the sex is mainly consensual rather than bondage and slavery.

[Kendo 2]

I wonder about the concept of comfort girls for soldiers. They used to use them in wars in the past. Basically a pass around prozzie for the troops.

 

Wraithslayer has something like in Radiant Prostitution and obviously MoreBanditsCamps has slave girls. But I was thinking more along the lines of brothels, prostitutes for soldiers where the sex is mainly consensual rather than bondage and slavery.

I hit on that in the first post.  If I do player prostitution that might be one of the entry level quests.

[vram1974]

 

I wonder about the concept of comfort girls for soldiers. They used to use them in wars in the past. Basically a pass around prozzie for the troops.

 

Wraithslayer has something like in Radiant Prostitution and obviously MoreBanditsCamps has slave girls. But I was thinking more along the lines of brothels, prostitutes for soldiers where the sex is mainly consensual rather than bondage and slavery.

I hit on that in the first post.  If I do player prostitution that might be one of the entry level quests.

 

 

Sorry, you're right you did mention it. It's a great idea.

[Kendo 2]

That's why we both thought of it.

[Kendo 2]

Just throwing this out there; if someone wanted to do a brothel mod that followed the Thieve's Guild questline the perfect place for a whore house is Mercer Frey's house once the quest line is done.  After the player goes there it becomes unused.

 

I AM NOT doing a thieve's guild quest line mod but if someone ever did, Mercer's house would be perfect for it.

[shardoom]

Hey Kendo this looks very interesting, I've been hoping someone would do something along these lines for a while.

 

I've looked but can't seem to see any mention of voices? Have you done similar splicing work as what FoxFingers did for AA or is this simply silent?

[Kendo 2]

It's a silent mod and I haven't delved in Skyrim voice files.  I did a lot of that for both FO games and Oblivion, but the LipFile Hammer software worked for those games and it doesn't for Skyrim.  I already tried so that means new software I don't know how to use and piecing together vanilla dialogue and hoping the lips match what is being said.  I don't like that prospect and it sounds like a lot of work.  I know voiced mods can be done since foxfingers has mastered it.  I've just accepted (for now) silent mods as how things are for me and Skyrim.

[Guest]

It's a silent mod and I haven't delved in Skyrim voice files.  I did a lot of that for both FO games and Oblivion, but the LipFile Hammer software worked for those games and it doesn't for Skyrim.  I already tried so that means new software I don't know how to use and piecing together vanilla dialogue and hoping the lips match what is being said.  I don't like that prospect and it sounds like a lot of work.  I know voiced mods can be done since foxfingers has mastered it.  I've just accepted (for now) silent mods as how things are for me and Skyrim.

 

It is quite easy to do, if you do have the actual audio files in WAV format (48KHz mono)

 

let's say you have a specific voice type (if it is vanilla, does not matter, you just need the name of the VoiceType associated to who will speak.)

You should have a folder (if not create) in Skyrim/Data/Sound/Voices/<name of your mod.esp>/<Voice Type>/

For each response of a dialogue you may have one or more possible speakers (different voice types), but all of them will share the same file name.

 

just place your .WAV file in the right folder, and then edit the Response. Click on the Voice Type you have a WAV file for it, and generate the LIP file.

The same lip file can be copied in all <Voice Type> folders, it will be always the same.

 

Then, if you are a perfectionist (or you care about the size of the mod), convert (after) the WAV files in XMV format, and get rid of the WAV files.

[blabla11]

I found a small issue:

I tested the street walker in Windhelm and she walked quite a bit. Since I have Frostfall active, my character didn't quite make it to the "secluded" spot...

Maybe have the Dark Elves go into Gnisis and Nords into Candlehearth?

 

On the second try we reached the corner (which isn't really secluded...), but she wouldn't do anything. Activating her (multiple times) crashed the game.

[Kendo 2]

If you don't mind, could you post the techinal support questions in the mod thread and leave this on for ideas and discussion?

[beeknee]

Hey Kendo,

 

How about that pigeon up in WinterHold, Birna of Birna's Oddments.

She always says “I'll sell just about anything if it's worth my time. Keep that in mind will you”

The upstairs has a bed etc. and her brother is always drunk over at the inn.

Seems she could use some walk-in business.

She uses standard vendor AI packages.

 

 

When and if you ever get into voice files, there's a mod “Transcribed Dialogue Filenames” on that other site. It will batch rename sound files to actual dialogue text, making it easier to find dialogue you are looking for.

There's also a recent tut over there on scripting, but I imagine you are beyond that by now.

 

I agree with your approach and reasoning to placement of actors and locations.

Now I need to start a new game!