Is Collision a myth or magic or what?

[Buffmutti]

In my Skyrim i use HDT without any problems, but i still need the Havok Object or will have no collision at all.

 

I try to have HDT + Collision since the first time when someone had the idea of doing this and it has never worked, it worked for everyone else, but not for me.

 

I reinstalled Skyrim even 3 times and added the needed Mods using one of the HDT Manuals, so when i had installed all the needed Mods one would think that my Skyrim has a working Collision system, but whenever i started the game i had....nothing. Collision? Nope, niente, nada.

 

Then i read the tip "yes, i know that problem, you need a special xml file for that". So i installed that xml file and started the game again.....guess what, what a surprise, nothing changed.

 

Then i read the tip "yes, you need the tbbp animation files" and i was like "wtf? animation files for hdt? that is like i buy a car and the salesman tells me that i need to buy a old engine from the stone age, coz the engine which is already installed needs that added engine for some strange reason". Sounds totally stupid, but hey, i am only a stupid user, what do i know about that? So i added the animation files and TADAA.....nothing changed. Oh wait, something changed....in the wilds Skyrim runs just normal and in dungeons the game becomes slow...like 2 or 3 fps. Hooray, i always wanted to play Skyrim in SlowMo.....NOT.

 

And before you ask, i have the newest versions of everything, i always had. I had the newest version one year ago and i still have the newest version today.

 

So, the xml files change nothing, no matter if i use the normal xml file which comes with HDT or if i use the "special" xml files for collisions.

 

I just wait that someone tells me that i should use a older version of a Mod (no clue which Mod, choose a random Mod).

 

[cowgoesmoo]

i might beat someone that knows what they are doing to the punch but i think it would be best if you post a load order of the mods you have, also make sure you are not overwriting anything that's need for HDT, another important thing you can do is make sure you have the skeleton, body, armor/clothing and try the vanilla races and not custom ones . also try running FNIS or deactivate all mods and install unp blessed body http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37900/?and all its requirements start a new game and than run to see if you get the jiggle (dont forget to select tbbp in the installation menu) this will show that something is overwriting it and remember don't overwrite any saves.

[OldGuy879]

Did you make the CBBE v3. HDT body  in the BodySlide studio ? i have ben using that from the start and it seems to work. also I use the HDT breats and Butt physic that was recommended

[Buffmutti]

i might beat someone that knows what they are doing to the punch but i think it would be best if you post a load order of the mods you have, also make sure you are not overwriting anything that's need for HDT, another important thing you can do is make sure you have the skeleton, body, armor/clothing and try the vanilla races and not custom ones . also try running FNIS or deactivate all mods and install unp blessed body http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37900/?and all its requirements start a new game and than run to see if you get the jiggle (dont forget to select tbbp in the installation menu) this will show that something is overwriting it and remember don't overwrite any saves.

 

I have the jiggle as you call it, THAT is not the problem. What i don't have is the collision, at least not without the Havok Object.

 

Btw i do everything which you say already (which drives me nuts, coz i KNOW what i am doing, i understand the manuals, i know what i should do and what not and i know how to install all the needed stuff....but all the knowledge doesn't help me a bit, HDT + Collision happens only on other computers, not on mine)

 

I forgot to mention that i use CBBE v3 HDT now (i think 1 year ago it was CBBE v2 when i first tried to get HDT + Collision) and every clothing, armor, jewelry, shoes etc in the game fits the Body (i use Bodyslide 2) so i don't need the unp body.

 

Here my Loadorder as jpg: 

 

You will need to download it, i guess, because you can't see so much^^

 

[Jimcarry]

Have you tried attaching HDT.xml to your female body nifs?

[Buffmutti]

No, i use CBBE v3 HDT, so this body uses HDT already and the armors use HDT too ( http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/25259/? )

 

And i have the bouncing breasts and butt even without a hdt breast and butt physics mod installed (i could read that i need that to have wiggling breasts and butt, seems my skyrim doesn't know that).

 

[Jimcarry]

No, i use CBBE v3 HDT, so this body uses HDT already and the armors use HDT too ( http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/25259/? )

 

And i have the bouncing breasts and butt even without a hdt breast and butt physics mod installed (i could read that i need that to have wiggling breasts and butt, seems my skyrim doesn't know that).

I think you can get collisions with your body if you attach HDT.xml to your female body nifs. You won't need the Havok Object once you're done.

[Buffmutti]

 

No, i use CBBE v3 HDT, so this body uses HDT already and the armors use HDT too ( http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/25259/? )

 

And i have the bouncing breasts and butt even without a hdt breast and butt physics mod installed (i could read that i need that to have wiggling breasts and butt, seems my skyrim doesn't know that).

I think you can get collisions with your body if you attach HDT.xml to your female body nifs. You won't need the Havok Object once you're done.

 

 

I think a HDT Body has that HDT.xml file already attached. But if i really would need to do this then i would pass, because if i wanted to have collisions with the body and all the armors then this would mean i have to attach this file to estimated 140 nifs (and it might surprise some people, but my PC is most of the time fully dressed xD)

[Jimcarry]

 

 

No, i use CBBE v3 HDT, so this body uses HDT already and the armors use HDT too ( http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/25259/? )

 

And i have the bouncing breasts and butt even without a hdt breast and butt physics mod installed (i could read that i need that to have wiggling breasts and butt, seems my skyrim doesn't know that).

I think you can get collisions with your body if you attach HDT.xml to your female body nifs. You won't need the Havok Object once you're done.

 

 

I think a HDT Body has that HDT.xml file already attached. But if i really would need to do this then i would pass, because if i wanted to have collisions with the body and all the armors then this would mean i have to attach this file to estimated 140 nifs (and it might surprise some people, but my PC is most of the time fully dressed xD)

 

 

I don't think a hdt body has hdt.xml attached. Check with nifskope. I believe you have to do it manually. 

[Buffmutti]

Well, i can't find any hdt.xml in that nif, but as i said, if i need to do this with every nif then i prefer to not have collisions. I change the shape rather often (depends on my mood) and bodyslide would overwrite the nifs then and then i would need to do the whole stuff again and again and again. Hopefully the next version of Bodyslide can attach the hdt.xml file to the nifs^^ 

[gvman3670]

The last I knew you had to attach an xml to the head of the body to do away with the Havok Object. I just use the Havok Object. What's wrong with using it anyway? It's never been an issue for me in any way.

[bahamut2119]

You need to attach a xml to femalehead.nif and malehands.nif for collision to work without the havok item you can get the xmls/meshes here  http://www.loverslab.com/topic/27122-working-vagina-hdt-collisions-hair-physics-now-with-belly-support/ 

[Jimcarry]

Well, i can't find any hdt.xml in that nif, but as i said, if i need to do this with every nif then i prefer to not have collisions. I change the shape rather often (depends on my mood) and bodyslide would overwrite the nifs then and then i would need to do the whole stuff again and again and again. Hopefully the next version of Bodyslide can attach the hdt.xml file to the nifs^^ 

Disable the havok object, and try this: hdt.rar

 

It replaces your female head, so back it up. It should add collisions for everything.

[Buffmutti]

Nothing to back up, there is no femalehead.nif in the folder where the rest of the bodyparts is.

 

The femalehead.nif should be in \Data\meshes\actors\character\female\ but there is no folder called female.

 

 

[gvman3670]

 

Well, i can't find any hdt.xml in that nif, but as i said, if i need to do this with every nif then i prefer to not have collisions. I change the shape rather often (depends on my mood) and bodyslide would overwrite the nifs then and then i would need to do the whole stuff again and again and again. Hopefully the next version of Bodyslide can attach the hdt.xml file to the nifs^^ 

Disable the havok object, and try this: hdt.rar

 

It replaces your female head, so back it up. It should add collisions for everything.

 

 

I tried that on two Mod Organizer profiles, one using UNP HDT-PE and the other CITRUS, and it didn't work at all. I did add it to the MO directory and not directly into my data folder, though (and nothing was added to my <overwrites> file at all).

[Jimcarry]

Uhh sorry... It's late here. It's supposed to go in your character assets folder. I should go to bed, lol.

Data\meshes\actors\character\character assets

[TheDriedFinger]

Let's run a checklist:

- HDT-compatible body: the fact you get a the jiggle effect on the breasts means you have this

- HDT-compatible skeleton: as above

- The HDT plugin: as above

- An XML file:

--- Ragdoll/jiggle works so that means that that part of the xml is functioning

--- Collision is not apparent/does not occur; that part of the xml is a possible culprit

 

So, let's go over what is required to have collision effects (essentially, how everything works). We'll assume the latest version of HDT (as you said). You need to have collision data in your xml. Many xml presets d not come with collision data; I am not sure if the official release has that either. Note that during development, collision data was often stored in a separate xml; in using the latest version, this data should be in the xml of the same name as the plugin and in the same folder as the plugin. Check that it is otherwise everything else doesn't matter. This collision data needs to be referenced to in a mesh that you have "equipped"; that is to say that it is making up some part of the player model at that moment. Do you have something equipped that links to the xml? Commonly, this is a "Havok Object", a mod that adds a ring or something discrete or even invisible that references the xml. It is uncommon to have it attached to the body now because the body mesh effectively gets replaced when the player character equips body armor. Second, whatever Havok Object you are using: make sure it references the correct xml with the collision data. Older Havok Object mods will still reference an HDT.xml, as was the convention of that time.

[Buffmutti]

Nope, this head changes nothing. My guess is that skyrim doesn't use that head, it looks for the head somewhere else, so i could put millions of heads into the character assets folder, skyrim would simply ignore them.

 

[Jimcarry]

Well that's all the limited knowledge I can offer. Hopefully you are able to find a fix!

[Buffmutti]

Let's run a checklist:

- HDT-compatible body: the fact you get a the jiggle effect on the breasts means you have this

- HDT-compatible skeleton: as above

- The HDT plugin: as above

- An XML file:

--- Ragdoll/jiggle works so that means that that part of the xml is functioning

--- Collision is not apparent/does not occur; that part of the xml is a possible culprit

 

So, let's go over what is required to have collision effects (essentially, how everything works). We'll assume the latest version of HDT (as you said). You need to have collision data in your xml. Many xml presets d not come with collision data; I am not sure if the official release has that either. Note that during development, collision data was often stored in a separate xml; in using the latest version, this data should be in the xml of the same name as the plugin and in the same folder as the plugin. Check that it is otherwise everything else doesn't matter. This collision data needs to be referenced to in a mesh that you have "equipped"; that is to say that it is making up some part of the player model at that moment. Do you have something equipped that links to the xml? Commonly, this is a "Havok Object", a mod that adds a ring or something discrete or even invisible that references the xml. It is uncommon to have it attached to the body now because the body mesh effectively gets replaced when the player character equips body armor. Second, whatever Havok Object you are using: make sure it references the correct xml with the collision data. Older Havok Object mods will still reference an HDT.xml, as was the convention of that time.

 

Wow, just wow. Of course. I need to update the Havok Object. I guess the one which i use is such a older one which uses a hdt.xml for breasts collision only. Will update this right now

[Buffmutti]

Well, seems the creator of that Havok Object was smart, the Object references to the hdtPhysicsExtensionDefaultBBP.xml file in the skse plugin folder and there i found a xml with the size of 94 Kbyte from 04.10.2014 and a xml.bak with the size of 111 Kbyte from 05.19.2014 while the original xml file which came with hdt 14.28 is over 1 month older and 75Kbyte in size.

 

Both xml files in the skse\plugins folder seem to contain collisions data, i just don't know if that is only for Breast Collision or for everything.

[TheDriedFinger]

Well, then the last thing to look at is the xml file.

- Does it have collision data?

- If yes, is the collision data well-customized for your body and skeleton setup? It is possible, though not particularly likely, that the collision shapes used to approximate the hands and breasts are so out of whack for your setup that there is actually no collision occurring between them.

 

That's it. That's the last thing I can think of.

[Buffmutti]

I found the problem. hdtPhysicsExtensionDefaultBBP.xml references to a hdt.xml and this file does not exist (not even in the original hdt 14.28 archive). In the hdtPhysicsExtension.log i can see several warnings and errors.

 

hdtPhysicsExtensions.log

 

[Buffmutti]

I checked now the original hdtPhysicsExtensionDefaultBBP.xml and yes, this file has the reference for the hdt.xml too.

 

Ok, now i am confused, nowhere in the hdtPhysicsExtensionDefaultBBP.xml is a reference to the hdt.xml file, so why is skse looking for it?

[Buffmutti]

Found a solution for my problem and now i finally have HDT + Collision in Breasts, Butt and Belly. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/59416/? did the trick. I downloaded the regular version Mod for my body (tho i guess i need the reduced version coz if the PC touches her Belly it looks like she has no muscles in her Belly at all), then downloaded the SOS Full version Mod and downloaded the optional Havok Object.

 

The description says that only the NPC need that Havok Object but at least in my game this is not true, coz i have collisions only if i add and wear the Havok Object too.