About .kf files in Oblivion

[QuiteTheTail]

Excuse my ignorance, could someone please check (and correct, in the event) the following statement?

 

The folder

meshes\characters\_male\specialanims\

is the path that normally contains animations assigned explicitely by an .esp to an Actor, be it PC or NPC, and regardless of the gender.

The folder

meshes\characters\_male\

contains animations in use by all Actors, regardless of the gender.

 

Once this is made clear, I may have another question.

 

[varenne]

That is correct. Stated another way, and I'll start from the top down.

 

Think of the folder meshes\characters\_male\ as the generic, all encompassing master animation folder for.kf files. anything placed here WILL automatically be applied to both PC and NPC. (This is why one must be careful what .kf files get installed here.)

 

The sub folder,  meshes\characters\_male\specialanims\ is as it states in the name a specific folder for centralizing and calling up special animations that can be applied to your PC, an NPC or a combination of both, but must be specifically and explicitly called via an ESP (or OBSE script). If not explicitly called by an ESP or script, Oblivion will default to the generic or included animation; WalkForward, etc. An example of a MOD using this is Specialanims.esp.

 

Another sub folder, meshes\characters\_male\idleanims\ is used for centralizing idle animations.

[fejeena]

meshes\characters\_male\specialanims\

Yes specialanims is this Folder or subfolders

 

Lovers animatins in

meshes\characters\_male\idleanims\ani2

(also Mods like Estus, Pose Mods, Umpa animations,.....)

 

All default actors/NPC/Player anis

meshes\characters\_male\

[QuiteTheTail]

Thank you both, you're so kind. As for the gender assumption?

You see, I have fore's BBB animations in the _male folder. My hypotesis is that male characters see and use the same anims, but the deformation is not perceived because male body meshes are not weight painted in the breast region (well, and there is very little that could bounce there ).

 

The idea went to me (and this is a different matter) because I'm using Woman's Move animations for shield bashing, walkforward and walkfastforward (I have also modded my CM female companions to use those), and noticed that the same file for shield bashing is installed both in the generic _male folder and in the specialanims folder. Since bashing its the Expert perk, I have had few occasion to test it ; if I recall correctly, the bashing anim is the same for male and female characters.

(I know, reading through this is getting REALLY boring...)

I was thinking about a way to keep the vanilla shield bash animation for male chars, and use the WM replacement only for female chars. Do you think this is possible? At a glance, I think it's not. At least not so easily.

[fejeena]

I don't have Woman's Move, but if the Mod adds shield bashing kf in _male Folder you can delete it and all NPCs ,male aand female, use original kf files (or install another BBB ani)

And Player and all your changed CM female companions use the kf in Specialanims Folder.

 

If you want all original game (vanilla) females use the Woman's Move shield bashing kf and all males use the Default shield bashing kf you must create a Patch with all vanilla NPCs and set their shield bashing kf to the Specialanims Folder.

 

But such a Patch will conflict with all other Mods that change female vanilla NPCs. Then you must use WryeBash and your patch must be in the Bash Patch ( so you have merged all Mods/changes  = no conflict/overwrite)

[QuiteTheTail]

I see now that varenne already answered my second question in his/her comment.

I have to simply remove the WM bashing animation (restoring the one from fore's mod for instance) from the _male folder. Then I should create an addon esp for WM that checks through OBSE script (triggered by the bashing event) the gender of the PC/NPC, and assign the animation in specialanim folder when appropriate.

Sadly, my knowledge of scripting, particularly OBSE scripting, sucks...

 

EDIT

Or I could use the solution proposed by fejeena. Thanks!

 

This, however, would require manual editing of a fair number of NPC records (all female NPC from vanilla Oblivion, I'm not sure how many they are). Also, female NPCs added by other mods would not be affected, breaking again my rule. Perhaps the OBSE script solution (provided it's viable) is more flexible.

 

Once this is done - that is in a hundred of years or so, considering my abilities - the method could be used to control also the replacement of walkforward, walkfastforward or any other animation, and I could revert to the original CM partner NPC.esp (my patch wouldn't be needed anymore).

[QuiteTheTail]

For now, I think I will take the first advice from fejeena (leave the custom shield bashing only to PC and female CM companions).

This particular application is intriguing for me, perhaps this is the motivation I needed to start learning more about scripting.

 

[varenne]

fejeena's recommendation is certainly the easiest to implement, depending on how many female CM companions you intend on using. It'll just be some CS/E animation edits is all in an ESP file; change PC (Player) and your female CM companions to use the bashing animation of your choice, which should be placed in the Specialanims Folder as fejeena stated above. No need for OBSE scripting at this point. LO placement of this ESP is somewhat important; it should be last to load after any other animation changing MODs you may use.

 

You will still need to rebuild your Bashed Patch though, so that the animation changes get picked up and added to your Bashed Patch. 

 

There are a couple/few limits and lots of options when it comes to who uses what animations, depending on the animation MODs you decide to use and how you configure it all in Wrye; Merge vs Import.

 

I suggest mapping out your intended usage scenario in a simple text file, so you can think through the options. Otherwise you can very easily drive yourself nuts in quick order. 

 

If you want to begin to learn how to script add animations, see the MOD PlayerSlaveEncounters and review the scripts it has. That and the CS wiki has some beginner stuff in it.

 

 

 

[fejeena]

If you write a script that checks "if female use specialanims kf" then all females use the specialanims kf, and ( my opinion) that's boring.

And why should female soldiers (Guards,Imperial sodiers, Blades) fight differently than men ? All have the same Training/Trainers, so they should fight (and shield bashing) in the same way.

Some female Bandits and Marauders can be former soldiers and use the male style.

Female style good for Thief guild female members. ( and other cults, civilians, ...  "learning by doing" women = without Trainer/training program )

A good mix make the game better. If all females use the same kf  the nice new animations quickly become boring.

[QuiteTheTail]

fejeena's recommendation is certainly the easiest to implement, depending on how many female CM companions you intend on using.

It will be working straight away, since I had already available a versions of my CM partners mods (I only use NPC and More NPC, essential ones) modified to include the special animations I spoke of. By the way, I stumbled upon a couple of interesting threads here on LL that show how to use NPCs from CM Partners in a different companion system like MCS. I will try that as well. I never had major stability issues with CMP, perhaps because of the weocps.dll plugin I use. The real annoyance, at least for me, It's the frequent inventory reset after closing oblivion gates. As for Vilja, she is a wonderful companion, I won't deny it, but... what Ma'iq says about companions in general is certanly true for her. Man, she talks and talks...

 

There are a couple/few limits and lots of options when it comes to who uses what animations, depending on the animation MODs you decide to use and how you configure it all in Wrye; Merge vs Import.

As I understand it, the term 'Merge' is commonly used as in 'included in the bashed patch', although sometimes - in TESGecko 15.2 UI, for example - the term 'Merge Plugins' can be misleading. I saw you using the term 'Combine' when asked about merging multiple CM companions in one esp. I might be wrong, but it seems to me that patches usually are meant to be merged, the tag Import used when you want certain references in a mod to take precedence over the same references in other mods (???), and the tag Filter when you attempt to avoid potential conflicts, but you can't anticipate what's the masterlist you're dealing with.

 

I suggest mapping out your intended usage scenario in a simple text file, so you can think through the options.

Sorry, I'm not sure about what you're trying to tell me here.

 

If you want to begin to learn how to script add animations, see the MOD PlayerSlaveEncounters and review the scripts it has. That and the CS wiki has some beginner stuff in it.

Thanks for setting me on the right track.

[QuiteTheTail]

A good mix make the game better. If all females use the same kf  the nice new animations quickly become boring.

I agree completely. That's partly the reason why I'm fine with my current setup (custom animations for a few selected NPCs). I even left out female orcs and beastfolk CM companions, but that's my personal preference (or a subtle form of racism? gods, no). I speculated that orcs belong to a martial culture ('The code of Malacath' is their credo), and female members of the society tend to be confused with male members. And beastfolks, well, are partly beasts... Imagine my nickname changed to SexyLizard. No, definitely it's no good.

So, no sexy walk or elegant swing. 

 

If you write a script that checks "if female use specialanims kf" then all females use the specialanims kf, and ( my opinion) that's boring.

It's not exactly as I intended it to work, but then again, you have a point.

 

And why should female soldiers (Guards,Imperial sodiers, Blades) fight differently than men ?

They shouldn't, in fact. But that particular blockattack.kf (the shield bashing animation) is an exception, I think. It looks too graceful for a male character. If you would seen it, I think you would agree. I'm afraid I can't post a video capture.

 

However, your precious observations brought me to further develop my initial idea.

Animations could be set based not only on gender, but also class, attribute level, birthsign... whatever.

The idea is not original nor new, of corse, I think it was introduced for the first time in Umpa Sexy Walk mod. No, it was another mod who had Umpa as one of the possible choices. Natural Walks for Female Characters was the name, or something ike that.

[fejeena]

That's what I meant , all soldiers use the male/rough fight and block Animation.

Except the pink Regiment ( only men) use the Woman's Move animations  

[QuiteTheTail]

That's what I meant , all soldiers use the male/rough fight and block Animation.

Except the pink Regiment ( only men) use the Woman's Move animations  

Interesting.

Finally I can have my revenge on Farwil, that asshole. I will turn the Knights of the Thorn into sissies.

[varenne]

 

fejeena's recommendation is certainly the easiest to implement, depending on how many female CM companions you intend on using.

A. It will be working straight away, since I had already available a versions of my CM partners mods (I only use NPC and More NPC, essential ones) modified to include the special animations I spoke of. By the way, I stumbled upon a couple of interesting threads here on LL that show how to use NPCs from CM Partners in a different companion system like MCS. I will try that as well. I never had major stability issues with CMP, perhaps because of the weocps.dll plugin I use. The real annoyance, at least for me, It's the frequent inventory reset after closing oblivion gates. As for Vilja, she is a wonderful companion, I won't deny it, but... what Ma'iq says about companions in general is certanly true for her. Man, she talks and talks...

 

There are a couple/few limits and lots of options when it comes to who uses what animations, depending on the animation MODs you decide to use and how you configure it all in Wrye; Merge vs Import.

B. As I understand it, the term 'Merge' is commonly used as in 'included in the bashed patch', although sometimes - in TESGecko 15.2 UI, for example - the term 'Merge Plugins' can be misleading. I saw you using the term 'Combine' when asked about merging multiple CM companions in one esp. I might be wrong, but it seems to me that patches usually are meant to be merged, the tag Import used when you want certain references in a mod to take precedence over the same references in other mods (???), and the tag Filter when you attempt to avoid potential conflicts, but you can't anticipate what's the masterlist you're dealing with.

 

I suggest mapping out your intended usage scenario in a simple text file, so you can think through the options.

C. Sorry, I'm not sure about what you're trying to tell me here.

 

If you want to begin to learn how to script add animations, see the MOD PlayerSlaveEncounters and review the scripts it has. That and the CS wiki has some beginner stuff in it.

Thanks for setting me on the right track.

 

 

A. For the CM Partner MODs I use Surazal's Sensual Walks Animations Installer and Sensual Walks for Female NPCs. One of the benefits of this is you get a separate ESP that is applied to each CM Partner MOD; CM Partners Vwalk.esp, CM Partners NPC Vwalk.esp, etc. The simple approach is to then modify the appropriate Vwalk.esp file so only those NPCs in that particular CM Partner MOD are affected with different animations. 

 

A more complex approach, and you can read it in the included PDFs from Surazal, is you actually alter the .omod file config scripts to your liking or tastes. I personally never pursued this as it entails copying and renaming lots of animation files, setting them up in folders, etc., but it does work.

 

I use weocps.dll also so I have no stability issues in regards to CM Partner MODs either. In fact I've used their AI and scripts for modifications of my own.

 

I've never experienced the inventory reset. And yeah, Vilja is a Chatty Kathy, to the point of being annoying. I think their is a MOD on Nexus that changes that somewhat, never tried it though.

 

B. Yes, each tool uses specific terminology, with slightly different meanings, which you have to be mindful of is all. A TES4Gecko Merge is you are actually combining two separate ESPs into one; the original ESPs are no longer used, just the final merged one.

 

A Wrye Bash Merge, is you are merging the additions or changes (the differences) into your Bashed Patch. That is not a total merge of two ESPs, as only the additions or changes are added. You cannot remove the originating ESP, it is simply ghosted. Make sense? For Import see the Wrye documentation as it explains it best, just note for now it is different (and useful in some situations) than doing a Merge.

 

C. You've already started doing it, in between all of your other text. I try to create a simple text file list of what I want to change or alter AND accomplish:

 

My PC: Animations, X and Y but not Z.

Female NPCs: A, B and C, but not Y.

Male NPCs: D, E and F but not M.

 

That would be a pure gender-based approach. You can review Surazal's PDFs and see the recommended 'mapping', which is where I adopted that term from.

 

From the PDF file, Sensual Walks Description:

 

The mod uses a different walk animation for each type of female NPC. Female types are based on...

• Their class (Noble, Commoner, etc)
• The job they do (Guard, Thief, etc)
• Their age (Young or Elderly)
• A range of other things

 

[ljacquard]

This thread has sticky value.

 

Took me much longer to learn all this on my own when I needed it, from different sources that weren't as clear about the topic than this one.

 

Thank you to everyone participating in it, and sharing their knowledge.