Visualizing collisions

[foreveraloneguy]

I saw something in anther thread that I can't find now that said that you can visualize the collisions in 3DS Max with some plugin. Is that just the regular havok plugin, or is there something else that needs to be installed? I'm tired of trial and error and copy/pasting other people's values. I'd like to see how my skeleton collides for a few things I'm trying to get working in my xml.

[blabba]

Use havok plugin.

 

Import your skeleton, and if the collision isn't hkxconvexshape, you can use the 3dsmax capsule/sphere/box primitives to re-build the collisions and align them to the corresponding bone pivot.

[foreveraloneguy]

Any specific version? I run 3DS 2012 with the niftools plugin.

[blabba]

You'll want 2012 havok plugin then

 

2012 and 2013 are the only working ones for HDT stuff anyway

[foreveraloneguy]

Is there a particular view I need to be in, or should the data just appear? If the data should just appear, then it looks like I'm going to need to find a tutorial on creating collisions, etc.

[blabba]

You need to make your collision shapes yourself after looking at their parameters in JFF.

 

Then you parent and align them to the bone they are named after.

[foreveraloneguy]

hmmm.... I may need a tutorial

 

The point being though that I don't want to look at at them in JFF then create collisions based on that. I want to see how the collisions are set up in the skeleton, then configure the parameters in JFF to match what's configured on the skeleton.

[blabba]

HDT doesn't use the vanilla defined collisions from your skeleton.nif

 

It uses it's own custom defined collisions from the xml.

Which in order for you to build, you'd need to take a look at the data in the xml it has for the collision shape...

 

It's really simple, most collisions are just capsules, boxes or spheres. So you just need to create those shapes and then align their pivots to the bone using the align tool.

I think the only tricky part was remembering what view the co-ordinates for the boxes and sphere's were given in, it was either view or worldspace I think.

[foreveraloneguy]

OK, now I understand, sort of. Given what you just said, this is the wrong direction, I think. It might be helpful to someone more experienced, but I'm just trying to find something better than adjust file, f5, f9, try animation, rinse, repeat, ad infinitum.

[blabba]

OK, now I understand, sort of. Given what you just said, this is the wrong direction, I think. It might be helpful to someone more experienced, but I'm just trying to find something better than adjust file, f5, f9, try animation, rinse, repeat, ad infinitum.

 

It's either that,

 

Or get real used to 'visualizing' mathematically by looking in nifskope and making your collisions that way. Hell, if your an experienced Nifskope user you can setup the equivalent bhkcollision shapes inside nifskope itself (but I think that's actually trickier)

 

It's really not that hard to re-create collisions in 3dsmax, takes like a minute or so. What's really hard is to re-create constraints (Still haven't figured that part out)

 

It'd be nice if someone made a maxscript to auto do re-build the collisions shapes, it shouldn't be too hard. I'd love to make it myself (still planning to if nobody does else it). Just that I don't have time to do it immediately. Probably only start doing it after citrus (I have so much shit to do that I want to do 'after citrus....')

 

Actually, chances are more likely by that time, I'd be updating to HDT - SMP at which case collision shapes are all useless due to mesh type collisions

[foreveraloneguy]

It's funny you mentioned nifskope... I was just wondering if, and it'd be pretty kludgy but might get me close, if I pasted the body onto the skeleton, pulled it all into nifskope, then used the various bone coordinate settings to get an idea of the size and shape of the collision. But from what you just said, it sounds like that's a dead end.

 

I think that, in a way, where I'm kind of lost is that I don't know what the capsule, sphere, etc., dimensions correlate to in the game. If, for example, I have a sphere shape with a radius of 1, what does that correlate to? Is that the same as a sphere at the end of the bone with a diameter of 2, so that if I translated the bone by 1 in both the positive and negative directions along all 3 axes, that would outline the sphere? Is it that? Or is it something else? Because if that's all it is, then that would be simple to visualize mathematically.

[blabba]

Find the bone pivot (where it's exact location is) Find it's LOCAL co-ordinate orientation. And then make a sphere/capsule around that.

 

Literally impossible to do unless your a math major and visualizing 3d objects is second nature to you.

 

But extremely fast and simple to use a 3d editor tool to import the skeleton, switch view to local and then remake the primitive collisions and align them to the bones.

(can't be done for convex shapes though, well it can but that's a lot trickier)

[foreveraloneguy]

It's not "extremely fast and easy to use a 3d editor tool" for me. I suck at that stuff. I don't even have any idea how to switch the view to local, or what that even is. There's no local view in 3DS that I can find. Visualizing objects given a particular set of parameters that I understand, on the other hand, is easy. But I have to know what they relate to first. Like, I don't know what "LOCAL co-ordinate orientation" is in relation to a bone. That entire phrase means nothing to me, because nothing in the skeleton is labeled local co-ordinate orientation. I mean, I've sort of been laboring under the impression that the skeleton used something like a cartesian coordinate system to describe the geometry of the joints, but it might be using spherical for all I know, with a really shitty labeling job in nifskope.

[blabba]

http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2015/ENU/3DSMax/files/GUID-0F3E2822-9296-42E5-A572-B600884B07E3-htm.html

 

If you want to do anything relating to Physics, it's best you read up on the co-ordinate spaces.

 

HDT works in local co-ordinate space for collisions

Nifskope shows you the parent co-ordinates

[NismoMan]

I'd listen to Blabba, not long ago he was as curious as you are about HDT,3D, Rigging and all that shenanigans, now he's literally one of the best I've seen to deal with the elusive mystery that is HDT.

 

I tried to learn and develop my skills in all that but life got the better of me, 10 hours job, family and freelancing art, I barely get to even play Skyrim at all

 

Anyway, I really hope something like an automated, visual workaround for editing collisions to be released, it is possible, right?

[blabba]

Anyway, I really hope something like an automated, visual workaround for editing collisions to be released, it is possible, right?

 

Hydro was working with someone else for an update to JFF to allow users to do something like this but then Hydro moved onto HDT SMP.

 

With HDT SMP, hydro uses bullet libraries and with it Mesh Type collision, which basically (This is what I think) will automatically create a field function to estimate your 3d mesh as close as possible and make that the collision shape basically. So now users shouldn't need to adjust collisions themselves since using math they'd have the most optimized collision shape.

 

I can at most make a maxscript to import collisions from xml somewhat easily (if given time) but with the advent of HDT SMP I thought I'd just sit tight and wait to hear updates from hydro and company when they get time.

[foreveraloneguy]

http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/3ds-max/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2015/ENU/3DSMax/files/GUID-0F3E2822-9296-42E5-A572-B600884B07E3-htm.html

 

If you want to do anything relating to Physics, it's best you read up on the co-ordinate spaces.

 

HDT works in local co-ordinate space for collisions

Nifskope shows you the parent co-ordinates

 

Well, now I'm more lost than before. I have no idea what a "parent coordinate" space is. Coordinate space is divided into global and local. Nothing I've ever read has mentioned a "parent" space. So I dug around a bit, and this *seems* to refer to the local coordinate space of the parent node. And digging around some more and zooming way in on groovtama's skeleton showed me a few capsules, but when I tried to add one, it always ended up attached to the scene root, not the bone I tried to attach it to.

 

So basically, I'm tired of dicking with it. Couple that with my almost non-existent knowledge of 3D modeling and a job that frequently requires > 12 hour days, and I'm probably better off hoping that someone gets around to releasing the data for groovtama's skeleton rather than spending the next several months learning just barely enough 3D modeling to maybe figure it out myself. But at least I finally found the interface option in 3DS to switch to local view. So I got that going for me now....

 

Thanks for trying though.

[foreveraloneguy]

Well, just as a follow up, I did find a config that works with groovtama's latest skeletons, finally. Took a bit of tweaking, but the parameters were already fairly close. Still don't have it at 100% and may never get it there unless I start slogging down the path blabba described, but at least it's mostly working, and mostly consistent.

 

And in case someone else stumbles across this thread and is facing the same problem, here's the HDTPE files I'm using. But know that they're currently very, very bouncy. A body like jello is an understatement. I'm working on that too.

hdt.xml

hdtm.xml

[Kestrel77]

which allows to reduce the value of the option collision butt and prebutt in JFF?.I have problem with butt in animations:D

 

 

and one think yet,i have it this little not comfortable errors in my hdtskyrimmempatch.log i dont know what its mean:DI first got that thing.this may be the cause of non-use havok object files for collision?bcs i dont using this, i only use hdt.xml file in data/meshes/character/characters assets on all bodies which i using and its work great

hdtSkyrimMemPatch.log

[foreveraloneguy]

It means something crashed. The module's internal name isn't in english, so you get garbage characters. It's probably one of HDT's modules.

 

I think I got the vibrating butt and breasts fixed, but still working on the belly. It's closer though. 

 

edit: got the worst of the problems sorted out. Might still vibrate for a second or two when an animation starts. But then it should settle down. This is probably as far as I can go with the level of knowledge (none) that I have right now. But at least it's more or less working now with groovtama's latest and greatest.

hdt.xml

hdtm.xml

[Kestrel77]

It means something crashed. The module's internal name isn't in english, so you get garbage characters. It's probably one of HDT's modules.

 

I think I got the vibrating butt and breasts fixed, but still working on the belly. It's closer though. 

 

edit: got the worst of the problems sorted out. Might still vibrate for a second or two when an animation starts. But then it should settle down. This is probably as far as I can go with the level of knowledge (none) that I have right now. But at least it's more or less working now with groovtama's latest and greatest.

k thx i start new game and log is fine by now:Dbtw i download your xmls files yesterday,and i can tell is very bouncy and shacking but stability and at last i find hdt xml. which correct belly collision cooperate with SOS/SAM penises on manga body not collision backward ,only FORWARD!!! great hahahha

sorry but im noobish about this thinks i mean correct parameters in something programs:D Great Work!!!

[foreveraloneguy]

Do you have just for fun (jff from here or the HDTPE link on nexus)? If so, you can increase the spring damping and or decrease the spring tension settings and that will reduce the bounce. If you do, do it in small amounts. Just don't *reduce* the damping settings, or the vibrating will come back.

[Kestrel77]

Do you have just for fun (jff from here or the HDTPE link on nexus)? If so, you can increase the spring damping and or decrease the spring tension settings and that will reduce the bounce. If you do, do it in small amounts. Just don't *reduce* the damping settings, or the vibrating will come back.

i have jff from here, i will look for that and thanky for little explenation about parameters

[foreveraloneguy]

I was able to reduce the crazy bouncing. Fixed more of the jitter while I was doing that.

hdt.xml

hdtm.xml

hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml