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More realistic Slavery?


Scarlett

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So..

 

My knowledge on Skyrim lore is piss-poor at best, but I was thinking today while playing FarCry 4 why don't certain cities/races dislike other races?

Why isn't there a slavery mod that instead of just enslaving you because they beat you in combat, or because you surrender to them, why not have slavery that's based around a hatred. 

 

For instance if you were a nord, when some Forsworn solidiers wonder by with a prisoner why don't they go "Ah, another catch!" and then enslave you much like the prisoner they already have in captive. 

 

If you enter a city, and you are that cities "hated" race, such as windhelm hating dark elves, you would be enslaved. 

 

Perhaps that would take too much work, I'd piddle with it all myself, but there are no guides or anything on how to actually start modding >.>

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Theres planty of it:

Orcs dislike everyone.

Everyone dislike khajiits

everyone hates altmers - especially bosmers, imperials, nords, redguards, khajiits etc 

dunmers hate argonians and imperials

etc

 

It is mentioned numerous times in game but it barely ever makes any kind of difference. Even when it obviously should - for example being an altmer/bosmer should make thalmor demand that you either support them or they will treat you as traitor.

Lets say it straight - relationships in Skyrim are very poorly made.

 

Tho getting you enslaved just because you enter some city that doesn't like you is going too far imo. Stormcloaks have plenty of reasons to hate altmers yet there is an altmer woman living in Windhelm.

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From a lore perspective. The most racist group in the game, Ulfric's Stormcloaks haven't enslaved the other races. If that bastard hasn't, then no one would...

 

Saying that, Bethesda's lore on what we call human rights is silly for that time period. Even if there were not slaves, there would be serfs (which in a way is also slavery). Without machinery it takes incredible manpower to mass produce food. The way Skyrim is, the 4 people who run a farm feeds an entire city, which is total bullshit. I understand limiting farms in the game to make more room for exploration, but at least have more farmers per farm to be more realistic...

 

Looks like I got on a tangent... 

 

The empire is anti slavery. Wouldn't make sense...

 

The Stormcloaks on the other hand have NO reason not to have slavery... I think they would use it to help fuel their economy. Makes sense considering how fucked up Ulfric is.  

 

Orcs probably should kidnap people to work in the mines...

 

 

Slaverun was good in some ways introducing slavery to a city, but it was also ridiculous in another. All females were forced to be naked, but kids for legal purposes with LL and all. WHAT? WHY? BUT the ambiance of the slaves in a city was amazing!

 

 

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everyone hates altmers - especially bosmers, imperials, nords, redguards, khajiits etc 

It is mentioned numerous times in game but it barely ever makes any kind of difference. Even when it obviously should - for example being an altmer/bosmer should make thalmor demand that you either support them or they will treat you as traitor.

Lets say it straight - relationships in Skyrim are very poorly made.

 

Tho getting you enslaved just because you enter some city that doesn't like you is going too far imo. Stormcloaks have plenty of reasons to have altmers yet there is an altmer woman living in Windhelm.

 

1)

Well I disagree about the Altmer and Bosmers and Khajjits disliking each other. They are actually in an alliance voluntarily. The Khajjit gained a lot of respect for the Altmer and Bossmer after the plague that devastate their population and their alliance helped them recover.  Like all nations some of the populous hates its current leaders. Look at the US, half of America hates blacks errr I mean the President. There are reasons to be unhappy about the leadership, but HATE? Haters got to hate, even in Elder scrolls!

 

The Thalmor is like the Prime Minister of the Aldamari Dominion. If the parliament (Aldamari Dominion) were unhappy, they could vote for new leadership. Note they don't, because things have gotten better for all three races with them in charge.

 

Are the Thalmor total dicks to people outside the Aldamari Dominion? Totally! The game of Skyrim did their best to make everyone shades of gray, BUT the Thalmor they demonized. Totally lazy storytelling!

 

2)

Ulfric is basically working for the Thalmor! There is a book on it inside the Thalmor Embassy...

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Simple answer: There is no such mod, cause nobody has written it.

 

Why is that? Making a savery mod is not a simple thing; you have to keep track of the players actions and additionally provide some gameplay that makes it interesting. Another thing is, that just monitoring the players health and triggering enslavement on defeat is alot more easy than altering every patrol and city guard in the game to attach and enslave the player if he belongs to their hate-group.

 

Btw: There´re a lot modding tutorials out there, try looking into the creation kit wiki. It has a couple tutorials, work them through, it´s good start which I took myself.

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So..

 

My knowledge on Skyrim lore is piss-poor at best, but I was thinking today while playing FarCry 4 why don't certain cities/races dislike other races?

Why isn't there a slavery mod that instead of just enslaving you because they beat you in combat, or because you surrender to them, why not have slavery that's based around a hatred. 

 

For instance if you were a nord, when some Forsworn solidiers wonder by with a prisoner why don't they go "Ah, another catch!" and then enslave you much like the prisoner they already have in captive. 

 

If you enter a city, and you are that cities "hated" race, such as windhelm hating dark elves, you would be enslaved. 

 

Perhaps that would take too much work, I'd piddle with it all myself, but there are no guides or anything on how to actually start modding >.>

 

I do wish relations were more robust and more intense feelings given the lore of the game.  But that's a limit of the game design.

 

I think the a mod making combining future versions of prison overhaul, sex crime and something similar to slaves of tamriel might be usable to get us to something resembling that concept.  Assuming a future version of sex crime will let you define crimes by hold, your race MIGHT modify the sentence to something more interesting.

 

CWO, for example does modify guard demeanor to simulate factional hatred...if an Imperial rolls into Windhelm, you've got the city guard all on top of you just for being you.

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I for one, would much like to have a lore on slavery which isn't totally unbelievable. Maybe we could all collectively write one, and encourage modders to base their works on it?

 

This way, those who doesn't have skills or intentions to write mods themselves might even be able to participate.

I like this idea a LOT.

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I for one, would much like to have a lore on slavery which isn't totally unbelievable. Maybe we could all collectively write one, and encourage modders to base their works on it?

 

This way, those who doesn't have skills or intentions to write mods themselves might even be able to participate.

I agree it would be good to have a lore-friendly setup. Given that slavery is technically illegal in the empire, one reasonable starting point might be to have slavery only in Stormcloak-held areas. If the Stormcloaks win the civil war, then slavery becomes legal all across Skyrim. How that would look would, of course, be up to individual modders.
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Maybe somebody could make a mod for the relationships between the races and make it compatible with SD+. So we don't even need the slavery mod itself, just adding the way races interact with another.

 

I don't know if it's possible to affect another mod with a mod, however, if it is, I don't think it'd be that hard to create this mod.

 

And also I think you should be able to set some of the relationships between some races yourself in MCM.

 

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I for one, would much like to have a lore on slavery which isn't totally unbelievable. Maybe we could all collectively write one, and encourage modders to base their works on it?

 

This way, those who doesn't have skills or intentions to write mods themselves might even be able to participate.

I agree it would be good to have a lore-friendly setup. Given that slavery is technically illegal in the empire, one reasonable starting point might be to have slavery only in Stormcloak-held areas. If the Stormcloaks win the civil war, then slavery becomes legal all across Skyrim. How that would look would, of course, be up to individual modders.

 

Given the nature of this community, I'd alter the background somewhat so the empire would allow legal slavery (otherwise why would almost everyone you meet be unable to be talked into rescuing you?).  HOWEVER...there would some legal protections for slaves (no, you CANNOT kill them, or maim them beyond marking them as property...a way to buy your freedom, etc)

 

In the rebellious holds, life is much rougher, and slaves can expect little, if any protection from the law, except possibly if they are human and their master isn't...

 

Each hold would, of course, have their own ideas of how this should work:

Solitude and Whiterun: Being the two largest and most cosmopolitan regions would have the most protections for slaves, and worst penalties for slavers (unless you were enslaving certain types...debtors, thieves, and even then, you'd have to prove the claim that you had the right to enslave a particular person).

 

Riften: Forget it, Jake, its Riften.  They would, in terms of the letter of the law, resemble Solitude and Whiterun, but you know what that means.  Slaves here would tend to be in worse conditions.

 

Windhelm:  With Ulfric, it might be OK for a human slave...if you're non-human, you might expect to run into some Death Alternative scenarios if you're a PC, or just some Death scenarios if you're an NPC.  Brunwulf is a polar opposite, again, resembling Whiterun/Solitude personally, though it might be hard to get that through to some of the locals, (you might be able to contact him directly with a plea for help if you're non-human, even if some of the guards were...less than helpful).

 

Falkreath under Siddgeir: Corrupt douchebag, Riften without bothering with the pretense, and since he's an arrogant sociopath, you can forget his guards protecting slaves.

 

Markarth:  Blood and silver flow through there...not a fun place to be enslaved, no matter who's in charge, no protections for slaves.  Also...two of the three REALLY vile Daedric quests are there.

 

Morthal:  I think from my playthrough they'd be similar to Whiterun or Solitude, Ravencrone is a good person, if a bit odd.

 

Dawnstar: Under Skald the Elder it would probably be closer to Windhelm, while under Brina Merilis it would probably be more Solitude/Whiterun.

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I for one, would much like to have a lore on slavery which isn't totally unbelievable. Maybe we could all collectively write one, and encourage modders to base their works on it?

 

This way, those who doesn't have skills or intentions to write mods themselves might even be able to participate.

 

Yes I sent you something along that line last night!

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Technical:

 

Basic slavery is simple. You put an NPC in an Alias, let him follow packages.... done... but now comes the hard part:

 

1. If you implement it... you have to take care that no important NPC(Questgiver etc.) get's enslaved before his quest has ended.

2. You can not simply enslave non unique NPCs..... Bandits for example that are quest relevant(Dungeon etc not cleared)

3. You can not simply enslave NPCs that belong to another mod... maybe only when you know exactly how that mod is implemented...

 

Example... you enslave a NPC that is patrouling bettween two villages(Travellers of Skyrim).. he is in a quest(as Alias) and two other NPCs are following(packages)..

Now you have a slave/serve that is followed by two other NPCs....

 

Or you enslave a NPC that is an replacement for another npc(Beletor/Ysolda - whiterun Trader - Ysolda is replacement for Beletor if he dies)

 

So after you secured, that no quest or game mechanics importand NPC is enslaved(what means 80% or more of all NPCs)...

and you have scripted the rest of your slavery mechanics..... yo may have a mod... but no immersion.

 

So you have to make story related quests building on your slavery mechanics.

 

Technical ok.... but it is, besides the BDSM fetish mods, a mountain of work to implement a immersive, lore friendly system.

 

Moin

Oli

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