Looking to Install Mods Correctly

[Slywyn]

And hopefully in the correct order!

 

I've had some bad luck in the past with installing mods and having them not working, so I was hoping someone who knows what they're doing can possibly help me out. I think my biggest problem is install order and having mods overwrite things they're not supposed to. 

 

I am currently following this list: http://pastebin.com/xUs4Nua9and I am hoping that this will help me get the features into the game that I want to have.

 

But if anyone has maybe a newer list or a better one, maybe some instructions or tips they'd like to share, it'd be very helpful.

[mybrainhurts]

First pick a mod manager to handle mod installation for you. NMM (Nexus mod manager) is probably best for your needs. Mod Organizer is another one, but it is too complicated for someone just trying to get on their feet installing mods so I would urge you not to go down that road just yet. Use LOOT to sort your mods for you and get a working load order.

 

Since you've had troubles in the past I'd suggest adding mods slowly, one by one, and testing after each install. Install skse by hand first. Play the game for a while and if everything looks ok, install SkyUI. Install FNIS. Then install Sexlab. Install MatchMaker so you can test Sexlab and make sure animations play correctly. After that, pick the body you want to use and install it. Once that stuff is in place you should be ready to start adding the mods you really want to play with. I would start by category - say, prostitution. Pick a prostitution mod you want to use, check and double check that you have installed the required files for the mod you want to use, then install it. Other categories might be bondage or combat, for example. So just take it nice and easy and read mod descriptions and installation instructions very carefully, and follow the steps you're given to the letter.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention overwriting files while installing a mod. There are no universally applicable rules. But for the most part don't overwrite Sexlab files, and don't overwrite your skeleton files. If in doubt about a particular case just ask. Overwriting files should be addressed in the installation directions for a mod that wants to overwrite other mods' files but not always so be careful (duh ).

[pikeblodd]

so I would recommend Wrye Bash as your mod organizer, it allows slightly more control over which aspect of each mod gets installed, its got a rough learning curve, as its a little more like cutting and pasting the files you want into your game, as opposed to installing all the mods and hoping you did it in the right order.

 

How to get good with mods Ch 1 understanding how mods affect your game on the file level

 

for heavy mod installs (and i should know, my current game is running 169 active mods -those with .esp files that need activation- and about 50 or so without .esp's).  the other thing is understanding how mod organizers work, now with a steam install, most of the files that dictate how your game run and look are hidden or packed up into files you have no direct control over.  I.E. you cannot just go into Skyrim and remove something you dislike.  However, if you copy the folder setup you can overwrite these files with the information you want running in your game.

 

for example, if i dont like the way the beggar clothes look, and i find a replacement mod that i like, i can take a look at how the mod is packed up (.7z -a 7zip file- or .rar - a winrar file-) and see what exactly the mod will do.  Simple mods will just replace the default Skyrim files (the ones i cant see, but from experience have a general structure understanding of).  For Beggar Clothes it would be something like two beggar clothes files named femalebeggarclothes_0.nif and femalebeggarclothes_1.nif (in reality the file is actually called torsof_0 and torsof_1) within a folder called Beggar Clothes.  The Beggar Clothes folder will be within the Clothes folder, which will be within the Meshes folder, within the data folder.  Sounds kinda complicated but its not really, its just kinda convoluted.

 

so what are these files.  femalebeggarclothes_0 is what the clothes will look like on the minimum weight of a female character, femalebeggarclothes_1 is what the clothes will look like on a maximum weight character.  (as a side note, if you download a nif viewer you can actually click on these .nif files and see what the clothes will look like without textures applied to them).  The Beggars clothes folder is the file folder which contains all the information of what the meshes or structure of each object associated with Beggars clothes will look like.  The Clothes folder contains all the subfolders which define the shape of each clothes object and the Meshes folder identifies these subfolders as being just the structures of items within Skyrim.

 

if you want you can go look at your data folder right now and see there are a meshes folder and a texture folder, usually the texture folder will mimic the meshes folder for all the objects a mod changes or adds.  This is the typical setup for a simple mod.  It will copy the folders from a 7zip or Rar file direclty into your Skyrim Data folder and when the game launches Skyrim will use this newer information instead of the default stuff.

 

Most texture mods and some remeshing mods work in this manner without the need of an .esp file.  The more complicated mods which typically add entirely new items or redefine how an exsisting item work require an .esp or .esm file to define how this object or change to the game will be handled within Skyrim.  Just to reiterate, many mods can be unzipped or unrared and altered then rezipped, or reRared and installed into Skyrim with no conflict.  A good example of a simple mod vs a complicated mod can be viewed by downloading and looking at the I Love Cleavage BBP Sevenbase mod and comparing it to the Little Sexy Apparel Replacer for UNP.  I Love Cleavage just replaces the meshes of the clothing it alters, it includes an .esp file because some of the remeshed clothes have a new item added, a set of underwear for the female models.  The Little Sexy Apparel Replacer not only replaces clothing meshes, it adds a new shout spell and adds in new clothing items.  The .esp file tells the game how to handle the scripts (which for all purposes are just instructions to Skyrim on how to handle the new shout) and to include the new clothing items with the meshes.  I love Cleavage can be unzipped and a person can remove any item within those folders and even go so far as to remove the .esp entirely from the mod so long as they dont use a mesh that needs the underwear item and the mod will function perfectly normal.  If you alter the files of A Little Sexy Appareal Replacer, you have to be very confident that the information you leave behind will NOT need that .esp file, or you have replaced the parts you dont like with meshes you prefer and it aligns with how the .esp and the scripts expect the meshes to behave within the game.  Its really not hard, I figured 99 percent of this from just pure trial and error.

 

Now this applies to all the mods i have ever dealt with,  I have even gone so far as to take all the texture and mesh replacers I like that do not need a .esp and unzipped the data folders and combined them into one single big ass mod file.  So whenever I inevitably fuck everything up with my tinkering I dont have to go back and install the 50 some odd mods that I KNOW I will always use.  BTW any mod that dosent involve a script folder, or absolutly REQUIRES a .esp or .esm file to function properly CAN BE combined into a single mod.  I personally keep a folder with the mods i know I will use unzipped in a resource folder outside of my Program files so that I can keep tinkering with it, and once Im happy, i rezip it all together and install the sucker to see if it works right.  I copy all the files from the Skyrim folder into a seperate SAFE folder, so once everything is just jacked up all to hell, I can delete everything in my Skyrim folder and just copy/paste from my backup and start reinstall my mods.  One of the reasons i recommend Wrye Bash is that it allows you to rename the mod to whatever you like, I usually put a number in front of the mod name so I always have my install order correct, and a prosign such as CLOTHING SEVENBASE I Love Cleavage BBP.7z so all my mods that affect a single aspect of the game stay listed together within Wrye Bash

 

How to get good with Mods Ch 2  Install orders and stability

 

So your load list helps Skyrim understand which files take priority.  Pretty simple, the last mod listed will always take priority over any mod before it.  With NMM and Mod Organizer (correct me if Im wrong I havent used either for a very long time) this can be tricky as these mod organizers will overwrite the information currently in your Skyrim directory, and if you dont take the time to examine that shit in detail, you are left hoping everything is how it should be.  Another reason I like Wrye Bash is that renaming mods lets you keep a somewhat organized idea of what SHOULD be installed last to ensure what you want in the game overwrites what you DO NOT want.  The LOOT application helps further control which mods have control over your game by organizing your load list automatically according to tons of community feedback.  Community members identify physical conflicts with known mods (lesser known mods typically get loaded last just to ensure they get priority within the game) and LOOT arranges this mods in your loadlist to provide the most minimum of overwrites and workable conflicts.  More so to ensure your games stability, not so much toward what YOU specifically want working in your game.  LOOT then allows you to edit your loadlist before applying the changes to your load order.  If you identify you want one mod to function over another, give that mod a higher priority and LOOT will move it lower onto your loadlist.

 

Now speaking of stability, this is the biggest issue with modding your game, alot of mod fans will only add 10 to 20 mods into the game, depending on the size and what these mods do, stability may not be an issue.  For example if you are just adding in new textures, or tweaking the meshes of items within the game, stability will not be an issue.  However if you are drastically changing something, such as adding in a survival system (Frostfall) adding in more NPC's (Inconsequential NPCs, follower mods), you run into the issue of what exactly is going on within the game that COULD cause an issue.  Such as, does the new Dawn of Skyrim mod add a giant ass pile of wood at the same spot where my new follower is supposed to spawn?  Does that remesh of Whiterun raise the ground up within the city to the point where I will spawn under the floor when I log back into my save game?  Will adding SkyrimSewers 4 into my game with OpenCities even work?  To something as simple as, I have so many damn addon mods running scripts (*cough* sexlab *cough) that my Skyrim wont even load my save.  P.S. be wary of those 4k HD textures, that shit will eat memory.

 

So here are some basic rules for stability

 

1. Always look to see if the mod you are adding has patches (seach the name of the mod you want to add within the Nexus seach menu and see if any patch mods are listed)

    More patch mods means the mod changes something so drastically that its probably gonna affect stability.  (I will often combine patch mods into the main mod to ensure the most             compatible files are loaded into and used by my game)

 

2. Look into the .zip file and see if it has a script folder.

    Script folders means it probably (assume yes) will require extra memory than a standard mod (I will often label my mods that contain scripts with SCRIPTS before the name if

    only to know which mods to remove first when trying to track down a crash to desktop bug or infinite load screen)

 

3. Look into the .zip file and see if it contains a .BSA file.  These are a compressed version of all the files a mod will need, I have never edited one myself, but i know applications exsist to     get into it.   Assume any mod with a .BSA file has a script folder, and treat it as above.  BSA's are generally a good thing as Skyrim usually handles them better than loose files, however a heavily modded game can have issues opening and reading a .BSA properly, so be wary if your load list starts hitting the triple digits.

 

4.  The easiest of all the steps, review as much information as you can find about the mod with google if you suspect it is causing stability issues.  Many many forums have pages of discussions of getting Skyrim running something smoothly with every possible mod combination.  Ensure you make any and all adjustments the mod author suggests to Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPrefs.ini to ensure the game handles the mod properly.

 

5.  Optimize your game.  This is the hardest of all.  There are three files which (In my experience) make the most of how Skyrim handles memory and scripts, two default files; Skyrim.ini, SkyrimPrefs.ini and a custom made file called SKSE.ini (SKSE is Skyrim Script Extender and is needed to ensure many mods using scripts work properly)

 

6.  Use a save cleaner, such as Save Tool, or SKYRIM Save Cleaner.  Scripts along with some mod files get written into your save file, if a mod is crashing your game and it has scripts installed, those scripts (even if they are never used) will add to the size of your save file, and add to stability issues.  These tools will help keep your save file as small as possible and can even correct issues uninstalled troublesome mods cause (i.e. all the weapons and meat in the Windhelm Market magically floating in the air).

 

Finally dont be afraid to adjust your Game settings, if your game is pretty stable, but you get some random frame rate loss, or it seems to get jerky on you, adjust your shadows setting, lower your view distance, you can still have an awesome modded game with just some simple tweaking of your basic settings (did i mention i play on a laptop, just saying).  As a final word on stability, understand that some mods just dont work together, if the modder wrote one mod with a similar files setup, or maybe even the same file name as another mod, they will fuck everything up installed together.  Aside from textures and meshes, any two mods that change the same general aspect of the game are usually a bad idea. Try them all (seperately) and see which one you like, if you find your weather overhaul is crashing your game everytime a snow storm kicks up, time to check out the alternates.  If you have a follower management mod and after 4 or 5 followers your game locks up, might want to look around for another.  

 

Use the game to try and identify the problem, look for locations, events, or NPC's which seem to cause the problem to reoccur, and then check to see if you have modded those places, events or NPCs.  

 

Trial and error isnt the most effiicent way, but i dont want to drag my ass through 10000 lines of error log files to try and track down what went wrong, i just wanna have my Estrus shout not crash my game when ever Braith decides to walk her beligerent ass into the line of fire.  So to each their own on that note.

 

How to get good with mods Ch 3 the tools you need

 

Required to properly mod the shit out of your game!

 

SKSE (needed for any mod running scripts)

FNIS  (needed for any mod adding or editing animations - should be run EVERYTIME an animation mod is added, removed or changed)

 

These are what I use, I'd recommend them as they were the best for me after trying everything else, and have helped me in my goal of building the best version of Skyrm.

 

Wrye Bash (best damn mod organizer, in my opinnion)

Nif Skope   (to see what any .nif mesh file  looks like without the textures on it)

LOOT         (best way to keep your load order straight)

SKYRIM Save Tool  (best way to keep your save game clean)

 

As a last note, whatever tools you decide to use, read EVERYTHING you can about them, something game crippling can often be as simple as recognizing one button on your tools you just didnt know you needed to press.

 

send me a msg on anything, this was very abridged version as a general idea of how to work with mods, there is a ton more information specifically for whatever tools you use.

 

 

[Kes_S]

Save cleaners won't always work and some mod updates may just break a current save permanently. Go with a mod set and stick with it for an entire save or prepare for headaches.

[gvman3670]

If you use Mod Organizer you can install mods in any order you want with no fear or overwriting anything. It used a virtual data folder outside of Skyrim and adds nothing to your Skyrim folder at all. This means you simply order your mods in MO's left pane to acheive the overwrites you want or don't. Super simple system that just works.

 

Plus it has multiple profiles and profile specific game saves. You can start a new profile and activate the mods you want (that you have installed) and have a new game ready to run, whether you use it to play the game or test mods. All without effecting any other profiles or saves.

[Slywyn]

All of this information is incredibly helpful. It's a lot to read.

 

I do have a question though. How hard would it be for someone who knows what they're doing to make a sort of 'mod pack' with all the wanted mods installed into like one big 'megamod' that you can then install yourself for everything to function properly?

[gvman3670]

All of this information is incredibly helpful. It's a lot to read.

 

I do have a question though. How hard would it be for someone who knows what they're doing to make a sort of 'mod pack' with all the wanted mods installed into like one big 'megamod' that you can then install yourself for everything to function properly?

 

It would be harder than just using Mod Organizer!

 

I just can't imagine Skyrim without it. It's become an essential tool for me to use with Bethesda games. I couldn't imagine being forced to use just one profile/character and having it broken from installing/uninstalling mods.

[Slywyn]

Well mostly I just don't trust my own ability to install things and get them working correctly. I'll get to the point where I just WANT THINGS TO WORK, DAMNIT and install something and not follow all the steps and then it breaks, and even if I retrace my steps it never starts working again.

 

Maybe it sounds lazy, but I feel like if someone would make 'packs' of mods that you just install and then you're done, like one big file or set of files with very exacting steps that you can just follow... it would make my life infinitely easier and much less stressful. I can't tell you how many times I've had to completely start over with Skyrim because it just stopped working and nothing I could do would fix it.

[gvman3670]

Like I said, just get Mod Organizer. You'll never break Skyrim and need to reinstall again. And you can look at your mod order pane and plainly see what is overwriting what at a glance. To fix overwrites you merely drag and drop into a new order and it's done in a couple seconds.

 

That's as good as it gets with modding Skyrim.

[abeman]

I recommend mod organizer too now, at first i felt that everyone says that "use it" but nobody say any reason why it is suppose to be so superior.

It is little more complicated at first than nmm but when you learn how to install mods with it, you can see benefits of it. Big screen on the left side you can see what mods you have installed and more importantly you can see what those mods overwrite and you can place more important mods at the bottom so nothing overwrites them. And it doesnt screwup your installation of game as far as i understand, a big +

For a beginner its frustrating, i cursed a lot when learning to use basics of it... "why this have to be so complicated" but its worth it to learn in the end and you will get your mods working much better.

and after that i found patience to learn fomm, though i have to admit it took atleast same amount of cursing to get through my thick skull

[Slywyn]

Would anyone be willing to write up like a step by step of the basics of using something like that? Because if I get frustrated with it I just give up and go back to what I know(Which in this case is NMM).

[gvman3670]

If you follow these videos...

 

 

 

...Or if you prefer Gopher's style...

 

 

...and actually do what is done, following along, in the videos you'll get the gist of it in no time. It's really quite simple. No harder than manually installing mods actually.

[pikeblodd]

Well mostly I just don't trust my own ability to install things and get them working correctly. I'll get to the point where I just WANT THINGS TO WORK, DAMNIT and install something and not follow all the steps and then it breaks, and even if I retrace my steps it never starts working again.

 

Maybe it sounds lazy, but I feel like if someone would make 'packs' of mods that you just install and then you're done, like one big file or set of files with very exacting steps that you can just follow... it would make my life infinitely easier and much less stressful. I can't tell you how many times I've had to completely start over with Skyrim because it just stopped working and nothing I could do would fix it.

 

So I was never happy with a single clothing replacer or texture pack, so i built my after learning how the folders should be laid out.  I have two mods i built myself by combining other mods together.  One deal exclusively with mesh edits i wanted to put into my game, and the other with textures.  

 

Basically i would create a Folder and name it something like Xperimental Custom Data Mod, within that folder i would make a folder named Data and within that folder i would build two more folders, one named meshes and the other named textures.  i would download the mods i liked, examine them with 7zip to see if they included an .esp or really anything more than a meshes or texture folder.  I would take the .esp based mods and set them aside and then I would take the others and start combining them.

 

7zip will let you copy the information out of a .7z file without having to extract it.  So i would open a .7z mod and if it had a data folder, i would drag the data folder into my Xperimental Custom Data Mod folder.  If there one set of clothing or textures i liked better than what I had already dropped into the Custom folder, I would drag that one last to ensure when Windows prompted me to overwrite the files, I could say 'yes to all' and not worry about overwritting anything i wanted to keep.  Once all was said and done, I would right click the Custom data folder and add it to an archive. 7zip would use the name of the folder as the default name for the .7z file and i would then just drag and drop taht .7z file into Wrye Bash and install like any other mod.

 

For any custom mod folder i built that DID have .esp, or additional folder, I would just take the time to examine the folder structure to make sure i didnt fuck anything up and once i had everything in the custom folder id add it to archive just like above.  i would drag that new .7z file into Wrye Bash and when i installed it, if I had done my folder structure correct, I would see the individual .esp files included and I could tick off each one to ensure they were included during install.

 

Alot of people advocate for Mod Organizer, but the abilities I've found in Wrye Bash allow me to work with pre-built mods in the perfect way I need.  I'm no modder by any means, but I have learned enough to know how to make the mods i like play nice with each other, and to keep my game as stable as possible

[Slywyn]

Yeah I'm sorry but... after trying to use MO, I just don't think I get it, even with watching the videos.

[Slywyn]

And trying to install things again... all I've installed is SKSE and Sexlab and SoS, and the game crashes on startup.

 

I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I think I'm just going to give up again. It's not worth the frustration. Sorry for everyone who tried to help.

[mybrainhurts]

If that's all you have installed then you're closer to success then you might suppose. Don't give up just yet. But I advise again to keep it simple. The difficulties you're having have nothing to do with your choice of mod manager, so stick with NMM for now. The nice thing about NMM is that it already knows how to install mods.

 

First uninstall SoS. It's a nice mod but you don't need it right now. Uninstall Sexlab for now too. Then make sure you have SKSE installed correctly. You didn't mention SkyUI. That you need, so after checking if SKSE installed correctly install SkyUI. You didn't mention FNIS either and you'll definitely need that, so go ahead and install that next. For everything you install make sure to follow installation and usage instructions exactly and ensure you have all mods that are required for the mod you want to install. Play Skyrim for a while to make sure you're not having any problems with the mods you've installed so far. If everything seems to be in order go ahead and install Sexlab.

 

If you follow those steps then you will have exactly 4 mods installed: SKSE, SkyUI, FNIS, and Sexlab. No custom bodies or skeletons or hair mods or anything else at all. If that's the case and you followed install directions then you should be able to play Skyrim with those mods without any problems so check back in when you're ready to start installing the next "tier" of mods like bodies, hair, and skeletons.

[Slywyn]

Yeah sorry, frustrated and left things out. I had FNIS and SkyUI installed.

 

I followed your instructions(And went a little further) and I got it... kind of working? I'm not sure why it works now but didn't before though. There is a popup about Papyrus Utils from Sexlab, however, and I'm not sure what's causing it or how to fix it.

 

Here is what's installed: 

Skyrim
Update
Dawnguard

Dragonborn

Hearthfires

SexLab
SoS- Core

Hi Res

" " 2

" " 3

SkyUI.esp
FNIS spells
Alternate Start(To bypass helgen)

Brawl Bugs
SOS VectorPlexus
SOS Shop
SOS For UNP addon

 

I forgot to add: XPS Skeleton, and UNP are both installed. They don't show up in the menu though.

[gvman3670]

Skeletons and bodies are mesh replaces so they don't have a plugin file to show in your load order.

 

Your SL Util message is probably because you installed SoS after installing SL so it overwrote that part of SexLab, thus giving an error. Re-install SL and allow it to overwrite the Util from SoS. If you were using Mod Organizer this would never be an issue (just sayin' as it's really worth learning to use to save problems in the future).

 

Since I have no clue how much experience you have adding mods to games the best thing to do would be to start at the beginning. This video is from our buddy Gopher on YouTube and the series covers basics and then some.

 

 

Take the time to watch it and the rest of the video series. It will help you understand the how and why of what we do.

[Slywyn]

I tried to watch the Mod Organizer video and it just confused me.

[gvman3670]

I tried to watch the Mod Organizer video and it just confused me.

 

This last one isn't about MO. It's a series of videos showing how to install mods (both manually and with Nexus Mod Manager), shows how to do it right, and teaches you things have to be done in a particular way.

 

They're worth watching before you even attempt to mod Skryim. They really are that helpful. And Gopher has a style that makes it easy for anyone to remember and/or to follow along.

 

[Slywyn]

well I know, I watched that video when I first started(Or one very similar).

 

I usually have pretty good luck with NMM, it's only when I've started trying to start using sexy mods that things don't really work out too well.

[gvman3670]

SexLab mods and NMM don't always work together so well. In that case it's easier (and usually more effective) to install them into the /data/ folder manually.

[Slywyn]

So I'm trying to use Fill Her Up, but it says it requires UNPB. Unfortunately, SoS - UNP requires UNP. And when you try to load the game with UNPB installed, when you take armor off of a female(In this case the player character), the game CTDs.

[gvman3670]

Install UNPB then SoS then the custom XPMSE skeleton (in that order). You overwrote the skeleton, that's why it crashes when you remove clothing.

 

UNP SoS addon will work just fine with any UNP variant, including UNPB.

 

And remember to reinstall SexLab Framework after those or SoS will overwrite the SL files.

 

 

 

 

 

 

THIS is why I recommended learning to use Mod Organizer. You'd be done already and it wouldn't matter what order you installed the mods in because you can just move them up and down in a list to get the proper overwrites.

[Slywyn]

Still not working, not sure why.