How can you miss "that" ?! (incorrect positionned hands)

[neandertale]

Hello there, english is not my main language so I hope I won't make too much errors, and I'll also hope I'll be able to explain my problem.

 

I'm trying to figure how to modify some hands moves to adjust to the equipable schlong of my toon, but it's always too low. I tried the animation editor (which is fantastic and helped me a lot to correct body positions), I also prefered to adjust the scale (so minimum problems during animations) and I'm using the XP32 maximum skeleton extended.

 

I think the poblem comes (... no, it's not funny... Ok, maybe a little *snort*) from the specific bodymesh for my toon : Muscular Woman (by Elmanouche) but, even when my toon is in intercourse with another toon using this same bodymesh, there is stil this problem with hands too low for specific animations (first part of DI blowjob). And of course, same problem with male masturbation *facepalm*

 

Is there anything I can do to correct this or... Should I buy glasses for my toon's partners ?

[MonaBabii]

Can you post a screenshot? If anything to know what kind of "parts" you're using and specific animations.

I know a few old animations were originally made for the Favored Souls (or whatever it was called) body, I believe the first one to have an erect penis (we're talking male meshes here ), and thus they don't look as good if you're now using SOS. The same is true if you're *not* using SOS and using animations made for it.

 

Your English sounds fine to me by the way. It's not my first language either but I found that *because* it's not my first language I will often put more effort into my words than any native-speaking person

[neandertale]

Can you post a screenshot? If anything to know what kind of "parts" you're using and specific animations.

I know a few old animations were originally made for the Favored Souls (or whatever it was called) body, I believe the first one to have an erect penis (we're talking male meshes here ), and thus they don't look as good if you're now using SOS. The same is true if you're *not* using SOS and using animations made for it.

 

Your English sounds fine to me by the way. It's not my first language either but I found that *because* it's not my first language I will often put more effort into my words than any native-speaking person

 

Sorry for the lateness, as the screenshots weren't very precise, I modified the pictures to show what's not perceptible at first sight.

 

... And I had to modify the... scale... because even average "smurf size" is even not perceptible. And indeed, you're right, I doubt a female bodymesh, here "Muscular Women", was something the authors of SOS were thinking about

 

For the mods :

- Sexlab framework

- animation : Arrok male masturbation

- equipable schlong SOS

- sexlab aroused

- Muscular Women for the bodymesh (by Elmanouche)

- Matchmaker to use the masturbation animation

- Sexlab gender change

 

I chose the option to force scale in sexlab while doing the animations but I'm wondering if the fact that I changed the size of my toon (to 1.4) may be a bit problematical. BTW I managed to make the problem less obvious by changing the lvl of arousal in the animation editor of Sexlab, but the hand is always under the equipable schlong at the base.

 

Thanks for your reply

[MonaBabii]

I don't see the very base of the schlong in your pictures, the part of the schlong's mesh that joins your character's body mesh on the pelvis. Can you take a front screen-shot of that? preferably without the shadows around the hip? That'll tell me immediately if it's what I think it is, which seems to be a problem with the body compatibility; the schlong may be positioned a bit too high on the pelvis. But can't really tell for sure with those pictures.

 

What you could try to do is download Nifskope, load up the equipable schlong meshes, and click on the schlong itself in the render window which will highlight the block "NiTriShape" in the block list. Then you look down at the Block Details window below it, and scroll down until you see the entry "Translation". From there you could tweak the "Z" value (by double-clicking the value column on the translation row); a higher number will move the schlong higher, a negative number will move it lower.

 

After that you may have to edit the arousal level on the animation once more to match the new position of the schlong, though hopefully it'll be only one last time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Remember that there always has been and there always be more variety in female body shapes and sizes than men models.

[Groovtama]

That's a male animation on a female skeleton with different scales\positions than the male skeleton what would you expect, misalligned animations.

[MonaBabii]

That's a male animation on a female skeleton with different scales\positions than the male skeleton what would you expect, misalligned animations.

 

Yeah pretty much, but I think it can still be fixed for themselves by just adjusting the offset of the schlong's mesh, to accommodate for the different shape.

It'll probably mean seams and some weirdness happening at the base of the schlong but... yeah can't tackle it all unless you're also willing to modify all of it

Adjusting the offset on the male counterpart of the schlong would be a far greater challenge as the male body mesh itself has a big hole in it, but for the equipable schlong it shouldn't look too bad.

[neandertale]

 

I don't see the very base of the schlong in your pictures, the part of the schlong's mesh that joins your character's body mesh on the pelvis. Can you take a front screen-shot of that? preferably without the shadows around the hip? That'll tell me immediately if it's what I think it is, which seems to be a problem with the body compatibility; the schlong may be positioned a bit too high on the pelvis. But can't really tell for sure with those pictures.

 

Ok, so after some problems trying to take off the ENB, I imported the equipable SOS on 3ds max, as I'm trying to work on something and using the MW bodymesh, that's when I really saw the problem, not only the SOS is a bit too low, it's also too deep (?), I mean, as you said, the base is not visible, I didn't realize it until you pointed it actually.

 

*blink at the name MonaBabii*

 

You're the one who made the transgender mod for SL !!  THANKS A LOT !

 

And thanks for the tip concerning nifskope, I had it installed some time ago, so I'll make some tests right now, thanks again for your help

 

 

That's a male animation on a female skeleton with different scales\positions than the male skeleton what would you expect, misalligned animations.

 

Well, I was hoping for some kind of calculated position based on the center (weight ?) of the skeleton actually, my bad.

 

 

 

-- the "?" are because I'm not sure about the meaning of the word I'm trying to translate, sorry --

[MonaBabii]

I think the positioning was just done by eye by B3lisario and can't really blame him as the male counterpart of the schlong (the original) was specifically made for their own tweaked body mesh; everything about SOS was very carefully tailored to their own body they released along with the schlong. When it comes to the female version... tweaking it in such a way that'd look as perfectly as the original was/is for males I imagine is just a monumental task as far as time goes, and aside from skin/color seams everything works just fine.

 

As for the positioning, trust me, try Nifskope first much much simpler than 3DSmax (though can't be sure as I hate 3D Modelling, might be just as easy for someone savy in 3D stuff), and you can adjust every part of the offset just by tweaking some numbers.

If you want to have a better "big picture" of how the schlong is getting positioned by your tweaks you can do something I've only recently started doing; Open the body mesh *first* in Nifskope, then go to file, open a new window and open the Schlong's mesh. Grab the root block from the blocks list, copy it's "branch" and paste it in the window with the body mesh. By default the schlong's paste should be positioned just as it is in-game. From there you can tweak the offset/translation and rotation to your hearts content. Hell you can even add the diffuse maps to each mesh and get an even better picture. And all of this for free

 

Keep in mind however that by tweaking the offset of the schlong you will screw up any current skin patches for it to match the various skins around. I myself am nearly done with a schlong re-skin to match the V06 Real Girls skin (tweaking 3 files heavily; diffuse, normal and specular), and in order to kill the seams I *am* using the default position for the package. The moment you bump that mesh up or down you're gonna start finding seams that noone ever is likely to have a crack at fixing, so it'll fall on you to adjust everything else.

 

Good luck though! 

 

Cheers!

[neandertale]

 

As for the positioning, trust me, try Nifskope first much much simpler than 3DSmax (though can't be sure as I hate 3D Modelling, might be just as easy for someone savy in 3D stuff), and you can adjust every part of the offset just by tweaking some numbers.

 

I didn't explain myself right, in fact, I just used the equipable schlong to see clearly in the scene with the default MW bodymesh how it was positionned. Now I'm using the nifskope as I don't feel like trying (more like messing...) the skinning/conversion/export stuff right now.

 

But I think there is probably something I'm missing : I modified first the "NiTriShape" like in your exemple, export it and replace the two (0 and 1) in the data>>mesh>>EquipableSchlong but nothing happened ingame so far, I even used extreme distance in case but no change. I tried the modifications in the "NiNode" as it has also a translation modificator but also, no change in game.

 

(to stay safe, I made a safe copy of the original .nifs)

 

 

If you want to have a better "big picture" of how the schlong is getting positioned by your tweaks you can do something I've only recently started doing; Open the body mesh *first* in Nifskope, then go to file, open a new window and open the Schlong's mesh. Grab the root block from the blocks list, copy it's "branch" and paste it in the window with the body mesh. By default the schlong's paste should be positioned just as it is in-game. From there you can tweak the offset/translation and rotation to your hearts content. Hell you can even add the diffuse maps to each mesh and get an even better picture. And all of this for free

 

I'll try this, maybe it'll work better than doing it with just the schlong. Thanks for the tip

 

 

Keep in mind however that by tweaking the offset of the schlong you will screw up any current skin patches for it to match the various skins around. I myself am nearly done with a schlong re-skin to match the V06 Real Girls skin (tweaking 3 files heavily; diffuse, normal and specular), and in order to kill the seams I *am* using the default position for the package. The moment you bump that mesh up or down you're gonna start finding seams that noone ever is likely to have a crack at fixing, so it'll fall on you to adjust everything else.

 

Good luck though!

 

That's quite a work... Better start working

[MonaBabii]

 

But I think there is probably something I'm missing : I modified first the "NiTriShape" like in your exemple, export it and replace the two (0 and 1) in the data>>mesh>>EquipableSchlong but nothing happened ingame so far, I even used extreme distance in case but no change. I tried the modifications in the "NiNode" as it has also a translation modificator but also, no change in game.

 

 

Are you sure you overwrote the right files? There are 4 sets of Schlongs in the meshes folder, a pair for males (not even sure why they are even there to be honest ) and the one for females. The files you need to open/tweak/overwrite are the schlong meshes that end with "f", i.e.: malegenitalsf_0.

[neandertale]

 

Are you sure you overwrote the right files? There are 4 sets of Schlongs in the meshes folder, a pair for males (not even sure why they are even there to be honest ) and the one for females. The files you need to open/tweak/overwrite are the schlong meshes that end with "f", i.e.: malegenitalsf_0.

 

 

Yes, I modified the "f" ones, thinking it was the same terminology as the armor/clothes parts in the general designation, with "m" for males and "f" for females. When I saw no difference, I even modified the "m" ones too (thinking it was weird...)

 

- EDIT -

the lack of modification is because after realising nothing changed, I pasted the original files back

[MonaBabii]

Hm, odd. Maybe you can't adjust the offset then D: I never tried it myself lol, was just thinking it could work =( Maybe you need to adjust a specific bone/node or something. not sure . The reason I thought this could be possible is because there's a guide somewhere over at the SOS thread (maybe it's the UNP or the Equipable one though) about modifying the scale of the base schlong, so NPCs can be bigger by default. Now I never actually used that guide or tweaked the mesh in that way because the size "issue" never bothered me, but maybe you could go through that guide and see if there's any specific block you need to focus on?

[neandertale]

Hm, odd. Maybe you can't adjust the offset then D: I never tried it myself lol, was just thinking it could work =( Maybe you need to adjust a specific bone/node or something. not sure . The reason I thought this could be possible is because there's a guide somewhere over at the SOS thread (maybe it's the UNP or the Equipable one though) about modifying the scale of the base schlong, so NPCs can be bigger by default. Now I never actually used that guide or tweaked the mesh in that way because the size "issue" never bothered me, but maybe you could go through that guide and see if there's any specific block you need to focus on?

 

Thanks, I'll do this

[MonaBabii]

The guide is over at the Equipable Schlong thread, main post. Perhaps you need to edit the skeletons or something.

[Crate123]

If you use racemenu you can make your arms longer/shorter, that might be the way to go for you.

[neandertale]

The guide is over at the Equipable Schlong thread, main post. Perhaps you need to edit the skeletons or something.

 

it's the skeleton_female.nif !!!   I had to modify the "schlong" part (to have the base and all the bones/children moved)

I'm currently adjusting but it's already promising (and working !) !

 

 

If you use racemenu you can make your arms longer/shorter, that might be the way to go for you.

 

No no, I (really) don't need to make it longer, I needed to have the schlong translated, it's not the same

[MonaBabii]

Yay! glad it's working out for you

 

On my end I finally finished the Real Girls skin, and as soon as B3lisario has some free time he'll get it updated. If you ever switch to that skin make sure to do the switch with the skin patch too

 

 

 

 

 

It's still not an 100% perfect re-skin but it should be good enough to not have to use wearable-pubic hair just to hide seams even after color-matching the schlong  The only visible tiny seam is that little patch at the top of the base.

The good thing about it is that I also painted the normal and specular maps, so as long as you use the SG Female Textures Renewal Normals for your body, any current skin patch for the Equipable Schlong should look a lot better than before if also using my new Normal for it, even if you don't use the Real Girls diffuse itself.

 

What I said before is still probably true though, if you are going to modify the schlong's translation this reskin (or any other for that matter) is probably not going to look as good, and seams will reoccur

[neandertale]

Yay! glad it's working out for you

 

On my end I finally finished the Real Girls skin, and as soon as B3lisario has some free time he'll get it updated. If you ever switch to that skin make sure to do the switch with the skin patch too

 

It's still not an 100% perfect re-skin but it should be good enough to not have to use wearable-pubic hair just to hide seams even after color-matching the schlong  The only visible tiny seam is that little patch at the top of the base.

The good thing about it is that I also painted the normal and specular maps, so as long as you use the SG Female Textures Renewal Normals for your body, any current skin patch for the Equipable Schlong should look a lot better than before if also using my new Normal for it, even if you don't use the Real Girls diffuse itself.

 

What I said before is still probably true though, if you are going to modify the schlong's translation this reskin (or any other for that matter) is probably not going to look as good, and seams will reoccur

 

This is a really nice result ! Better than mine for sure, on my orc "it" looks kinda like a sausage sprouting... or something just that weird I won't even post a screenshot, it's embarrasing enough as it is . And unfortunately, like you said, with the modifications on the schlong, seams are really visible.

 

I was testing the range of translation in Y and Z when I realized that's the skinning of the schlong has a good range of mesh inside the body character, which made me think about another solution, like adding an alpha map on my character body texture to create a sort of blending with a fading transparency at the base of the schlong's position. I don't know about the result though. Also, I'll have to create something like an exception for this map (if it works) only showing when the schlong is equipped so not every female with same bodymesh will sport the transparency spot.

 

I'll test first the SG Female Textures Renewal Normals to see the result, maybe *let's pray* I won't need to do all the workaround needed

[MonaBabii]

Are you really planning on scripting a mod that changes your mesh in game, so you can switch back and forth between alpha crotch and non alpha? O.o That sounds like a ton of complex work. Good luck with that though! Do keep this thread posted with your updates!

[neandertale]

Are you really planning on scripting a mod that changes your mesh in game, so you can switch back and forth between alpha crotch and non alpha? O.o That sounds like a ton of complex work. Good luck with that though! Do keep this thread posted with your updates!

 

... I'm getting ahead of myself I think

 

Maybe i'll just "create" a race with MW bodymesh, and as my toon will be the only one with it, and I want her to wear the schlong, it'll mean no scripting at all

 

 

Ok, the word "script" scares me completely.

 

[MonaBabii]

I think the easiest route you could go with is to just do your tweaks to the skeleton and simply retexture the base of the schlong The problem with using a new race, specially a completely new one is that there's a few mods that have issues with custom races, you could be having to face all of those issues and tackle issues with potentially several mods. On the other hand Gimp is free and along with Nifskope you can retexture something relatively easily

 

Here's a thought though that I didn't think of before.. What if you do apply your skeleton tweaks so to move the schlong, but instead of retexturing you simply try to re-arrange the UV mapping of the texture? You can do this very easily in Nifskope by right-clicking the mesh in the render window, click Texture and then select Edit UV. This I know for a fact it works Then you just save the mesh.

Once the UV window pops open, you either click the little dots individually, paint a whole bunch by holding down your mouse button or click them individually while holding down your Shift key. Then you move the dots around. Remember to first open the NiTriShape block, then open the BSLightingShaderProperty, and then select BSShaderTexture. Then at the bottom in the Block Details window expand the Textures tree, right click the very first texture entry and select a texture for the schlong (remember to change it to the default texture path once you're ready to save the mesh with your UV tweaks). This should help you visualize what your UV tweaks are doing to the mesh.

[MonaBabii]

+neandertale

Just now while messing with some mesh pubic hair I discovered that when you edit a mesh's translation/rotation/scale via the values I told you, you will also then need to right click the mesh in the render window > transform > apply. -.-. If you don't apply your translation/whatever tweaks, the actual new values will remain in your file if you save the .nif, but they won't actually "stick"/show in-game. That is very silly lol, but I can now attest that method does work just had an extra step I missed because well, I was only going by intuition, had never actually done it myself. Sorry about that .

 

Edit: Alternatively, to change translation and what not you can also simply right-click the mesh in the render window > transform > edit, instead of manually changing the numbers in the block details area.

 

Also, if you edit these values and *don't* apply the changes, and then save the file, the edited values will remain, however the translation will actually revert... So it doesn't work to simply re-open the file you missed the "apply" button, then apply and re-save because that will also not work in-game. At this point your best bet is to hit that apply button, you will see all tweaked values change to 0 (as they do) and *then* re-modify these values, and re-apply/re-save. Only then will your changes show up in game if you missed applying them the first time around and saved the mesh anyway. Lessons learned the hard way are the ones that stick I suppose.

 

Cheers!

[neandertale]

I think the easiest route you could go with is to just do your tweaks to the skeleton and simply retexture the base of the schlong

 

And.... you're right !

I first modified the 3d models to have the exact points stucked to the bodymesh... I just forgot I didn't know how to use havok... or progam anything like that. I mean, something "simple" like basic skinning and exporting to nifskope, it was ok... But trying to copy/paste the havok properties in nifskope and hoping it would go right.

 

My game just crashed...    Me and my optimism...

 

Anyway, I just modified the contrast at the base in the texture and the result is not bad... not perfect but a lot better than what I had first. Well, thanks a lot for making me see the light

 

 

Edit: Alternatively, to change translation and what not you can also simply right-click the mesh in the render window > transform > edit, instead of manually changing the numbers in the block details area.

 

Also, if you edit these values and *don't* apply the changes, and then save the file, the edited values will remain, however the translation will actually revert... So it doesn't work to simply re-open the file you missed the "apply" button, then apply and re-save because that will also not work in-game. At this point your best bet is to hit that apply button, you will see all tweaked values change to 0 (as they do) and *then* re-modify these values, and re-apply/re-save. Only then will your changes show up in game if you missed applying them the first time around and saved the mesh anyway. Lessons learned the hard way are the ones that stick I suppose.

 

Ho ! I didn't know this one ! Thanks, i'm going to modify it immediately.

[MonaBabii]

Yay! I'm glad you figured it all out! It may have been painful to have to learn all of this on your own but at least you know it won't happen again and because modding a game is always done the same way you can always apply all this knowledge to other stuff I know I will/have Thanks to your questions I've learned a thing or two myself lol, so woot \o/

 

Cheers!

[neandertale]

Yay! I'm glad you figured it all out! It may have been painful to have to learn all of this on your own but at least you know it won't happen again and because modding a game is always done the same way you can always apply all this knowledge to other stuff I know I will/have Thanks to your questions I've learned a thing or two myself lol, so woot \o/

 

Cheers!

 

Thanks a lot for your help, now I'm not anymore (completely) scared by Nifskope, and even the skinning/BDSdismember process is not that difficult to grasp. Yay ! It's gonna help for the armors I want to finalize

 

 

And I really want to understand havok, because a floating long skirted armor like this

 

would be awesome... And long floating hair too !

 

And the corrected (forMW) havoked schlong 

 

So much to do Thanks again for your help