Custom bones displacing my hair mesh

[cheesywheesy]

I´m new to this forum, so hello to everyone!

 

Over the last week i tried to modify some apachii hairs with HDT. My workflow (3ds max) is basicly the one shown in carcere´s tutorials. In the Havok preview and the exported .nif everything looks all right. The problem occours in game: The parts of the mesh, that are exclusively skinned to the head bone, are in place, but the rest of the mesh (skinned to custom bones) isnt. The parts skinned to the custom bones are translatet to the ground and the parts which are influenced by both, the head and the custom bones, are distorted (towards the ground). The problem is not caused by the physics itself, as i get the same results, even if i dont apply any .xml file to the nif.

I think the problem is, that the actual position of the hair mesh isn´t the one shown in 3ds max. It looks like the mesh sits at (0,0,0) while i´m skinning it to my custom bones (located around the head bone). So the game engine puts these parts of the mesh one character height below my custom bones. If i import vanilla hair meshes to 3ds max and disable the skin modyfier, the mesh sits at (0,0,0). So the skin includes a translation of the mesh to the actual hight of the head, right? If i import apachii hair meshes however, the mesh is centered around the head, whether the skin modyfier is enabled or not. But the pivot point of the mesh is still at (0,0,0). I tried to move the pivot point to the center of the mesh and create a new skin modyfier from scratch (with no "hidden" translations) but the result stays the same. My big question is, whats the difference between my custom bones and the head bone, since i created the skin modyfier from scratch? Why is the translation only applied to the parts skinned to my bones?

How do i have to position the mesh (and its relevant bones) while skinning? Around (0,0,0) and move the bones to their correct height afterwards?

 

Any help would be much appreciated!

[Yoo]

Did you attached the bones related to "Keyframed" rigid bodies to the head node?

[cheesywheesy]

Yes, the first bone in my created bone hierarchy is child of the head bone. To test things out, i deleted all the rigid bodies created by the autopilot script. So the only difference to the original hair is, that it´s skinned partially to my created nub bone hierarchy. No physics attached.

[Yoo]

Yes, the first bone in my created bone hierarchy is child of the head bone.

 

And the rigid body associated to that bone quality is "Keyframe" or "Fixed"?

And you have linked all the bones and their respective rigid bodies to their parents?

And the ragdolls are correctly parented?

[cheesywheesy]

Im getting a bit confused with the names...

The capsules are the ragdolls, right? But what are the rigid bodies? The yellow bones?

How do i check the "quality" of the bones. As i said, i used the autopilot script. So everything should be parented correctly. The physics in the preview looks all right too.

I attached an image how this looks like. Before exporting to nif i delete all  the grey bones and the capsules.

[Yoo]

Im getting a bit confused with the names...

The capsules are the ragdolls, right? But what are the rigid bodies? The yellow bones?

How do i check the "quality" of the bones. As i said, i used the autopilot script. So everything should be parented correctly. The physics in the preview looks all right too.

I attached an image how this looks like. Before exporting to nif i delete all  the grey bones and the capsules.

 

So, let me get it, you create the whole physics, then you export that data as an XML file. (while you create all the necesary filters to do it)

Then you delete the rigid bodies and the "Max bones" (the gray ones) and you export.

Then you link the XML data to the NIF using NIFSkope

and finally you test it ingame, right?

[cheesywheesy]

Yeah right. That was my original workflow. But to test, whether the distorting is produced by the physics or not, i skipped the whole process of applying physics (XML export and  linking via StringExtraData in nifscope). I just created some yellow bones with the autopilot (and deleted the capsules and the max bones), linked these to the head bone and skinned parts of the mesh to it. Created BSDismemberModyfier with the same partition as the original file (Hair Slot 1 -- 131 i think). Then i exported the nif file, did the necessary adjustments (copy paste original BSShaderProperties etc.) and created a .tri file via the conformidator. Then i created a new .esp in the CK to bring the hair into the game. Effectively i have nothing changed, but skinned parts of the mesh to my custom bones instead of the head bone.

The result was the same (vertices skinned to yellow bones are pulled to the ground). So i dont think the problem is caused by the havok physics and the ragdolls. It must be caused by some bad things happening while skinning.

 

Or am i getting something wrong? Are the yellow bones only usable with assotiated ragdolls? I thought they would simply extend the existing skeleton.

[cheesywheesy]

I did another testrun with havok physics enabled. The physics itself work fine, but the mesh is still distorted. I attached an image of the result. As you can see, the picktail on the backside of the head is distorted where the skin influence is 50/50 between the head and my keyframe. The rest is pulled down, but the shape looks like it should. The pigtails on the front and the sides are rigged to the head bone and therefore in the right place.

[Yoo]

Check that the ragdoll constraint is linked to its parent. And check the Create Skeleton Filter on the Havok Export.... Or just upload the Max file and I'll check what could be wrong.

Tip: The forums wont allow you to upload .max files, so compress it.

[cheesywheesy]

The zip file contains all files i created. Its just a test version with only 2 bones and very basic skinning. For the textures you need Apachii Hair Female installed.

 

Thanks for your help Yoo!

Test.zip

[cheesywheesy]

Does nobody know how to fix this? How do you guys skin your meshes, e.g. Apachii hair?

Do you import the skin modifier and tweak it or do you create a new one from scratch?

Where is the mesh positioned at while skinning? Around the head or at (0,0,0)?

Where is the pivot point of your mesh?

 

I have lots of spare time at the moment. So i could apply physics to a bunch of hair models and possibly publish it, if i get permission. I only need to sort this out...

 

thanks