CITRUS Heads (High Poly Heads)

[ao2thend]

 

 

Because EEO and other shit replaced morphs, while RaceMenu can add new ones? So EEO morphs are still there but on another numbers/sliders maybe?

 

 

 

Actually, EEO also made changes to the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, in addition to replacing two vanilla game sliders (jaw forward and chin depth were changed).  I talked to Blabba about this awhile ago, and the conclusion was that in order to use EEO in its entirety with Citrus Heads, someone would need to make it compatible (which I tried and utterly failed at doing).  

 

Most other things that EEO does will work with Citrus heads, but FemaleHeadRaces.tri is really the backbone of EEO, and it doesn't work with Citrus Heads. 

[blabba]

Using version bubblegum with new RM3 beta, mirror node sculpt is off center:

 

 

 

 

 

Your image fails to load for me so I cannot see what your trying to illustrate.

 

 

 

 

Because EEO and other shit replaced morphs, while RaceMenu can add new ones? So EEO morphs are still there but on another numbers/sliders maybe?

 

 

 

Actually, EEO also made changes to the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, in addition to replacing two vanilla game sliders (jaw forward and chin depth were changed).  I talked to Blabba about this awhile ago, and the conclusion was that in order to use EEO in its entirety with Citrus Heads, someone would need to make it compatible (which I tried and utterly failed at doing).  

 

Most other things that EEO does will work with Citrus heads, but FemaleHeadRaces.tri is really the backbone of EEO, and it doesn't work with Citrus Heads. 

 

 

FemaleHeadRaces.tri does not contain jaw/chin or any other sliders besides the base morphs for races.

 

It is true that EEO has a modified Elven Race base morph, that overwrote the vanilla version (IMO though it wasn't much of a difference).

 

However, this morph is included inside of RaceMenu/Citrus (it's under the nuska folder and inside the .tri located there). It's just that because the vanilla femaleheadraces morph is already applied to the base head, calling the morph again as an additive slider in RM will distort results.

 

If your talking about sliders like jaw depth etc... that most people associate with EEO customized morphs, those are 100% included and all you need to do is find them inside the nuska .tri included in RM/Citrus and add it to the slider config file and use these new sliders instead of the vanilla based ones. (Or remap the existing slider to the new ones)

 

Edit:

 

For funsies, there's over at least 100 or more morphs included in RM/Citrus .tri's that are not mapped to sliders inside RM. A bunch of these morphs are shitty, or copies of another they were probably fuck ups by the original author's who for whatever reason decided to keep them included in the .tri's.

 

There couid also well be some good morphs that have yet to be mapped to sliders appropriately.

 

To date, unless some new facial morphs were made within the past few weeks, RM/Citrus contain all possible facial morph data inside of the .tri's

Excluding some special ones for Khajit and Argonian races.

[ao2thend]

 

 

Actually, EEO also made changes to the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, in addition to replacing two vanilla game sliders (jaw forward and chin depth were changed).  I talked to Blabba about this awhile ago, and the conclusion was that in order to use EEO in its entirety with Citrus Heads, someone would need to make it compatible (which I tried and utterly failed at doing).  

 

Most other things that EEO does will work with Citrus heads, but FemaleHeadRaces.tri is really the backbone of EEO, and it doesn't work with Citrus Heads. 

 

 

FemaleHeadRaces.tri does not contain jaw/chin or any other sliders besides the base morphs for races.

 

It is true that EEO has a modified Elven Race base morph, that overwrote the vanilla version (IMO though it wasn't much of a difference).

 

However, this morph is included inside of RaceMenu/Citrus (it's under the nuska folder and inside the .tri located there). It's just that because the vanilla femaleheadraces morph is already applied to the base head, calling the morph again as an additive slider in RM will distort results.

 

If your talking about sliders like jaw depth etc... that most people associate with EEO customized morphs, those are 100% included and all you need to do is find them inside the nuska .tri included in RM/Citrus and add it to the slider config file and use these new sliders instead of the vanilla based ones. (Or remap the existing slider to the new ones)

 

Edit:

 

For funsies, there's over at least 100 or more morphs included in RM/Citrus .tri's that are not mapped to sliders inside RM. A bunch of these morphs are shitty, or copies of another they were probably fuck ups by the original author's who for whatever reason decided to keep them included in the .tri's.

 

There couid also well be some good morphs that have yet to be mapped to sliders appropriately.

 

To date, unless some new facial morphs were made within the past few weeks, RM/Citrus contain all possible facial morph data inside of the .tri's

Excluding some special ones for Khajit and Argonian races.

 

 

 

When you say  that all facial morph data is contained in Racemenu/Citrus Heads, your talking about the Chargen.tri files, but the file that's needed to make EEO work is that modified Elven Race base morph that you were talking about.  

 

EEO changes the FemaleHeadRaces.tri from what it was in the vanilla game.  Citrus will overwrite this file, and return the morph shape of elves back to vanilla.  There's no getting around that.  

 

Sure, the morphs that EEO replaced in its FemaleHeadChargen.tri are in Racemenu (as non-replacers. Nose width and mouth width if i'm not mistaken) and Citrus can therefore use them, but until someone makes a FemaleHeadRaces.tri that works with Citrus Heads and applies EEO's changes to elves, it remains incompatible.  

 

The only reason to use EEO with Citrus Heads is if you want the normal maps and warpaints it uses (which is silly because you can get those files and use them without needing the mod itself).  But if you want EEO for its main significance, which is that it shortens the chin and makes elves look less freakish, then you can't use Citrus Heads, as it will overwrite the FemaleHeadRaces.tri back to what it was in Vanilla.

 

This keeps popping up in your Mod's reply thread and honestly it would be easier on you if you just outright said that while some of EEO's functionality is already embedded in Racemenu/Citrus, it won't work fully, and correctly with EEO.  Until someone goes into 3DS Max and makes the two work together by changing the races.tri, it will remain incompatible.   

[forra]

 

Using version bubblegum with new RM3 beta, mirror node sculpt is off center:

 

 

 

 

 

Your image fails to load for me so I cannot see what your trying to illustrate.

 

 

Hopefully this attachment works.

[blabba]

 

 

 

 

Actually, EEO also made changes to the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, in addition to replacing two vanilla game sliders (jaw forward and chin depth were changed).  I talked to Blabba about this awhile ago, and the conclusion was that in order to use EEO in its entirety with Citrus Heads, someone would need to make it compatible (which I tried and utterly failed at doing).  

 

Most other things that EEO does will work with Citrus heads, but FemaleHeadRaces.tri is really the backbone of EEO, and it doesn't work with Citrus Heads. 

 

 

FemaleHeadRaces.tri does not contain jaw/chin or any other sliders besides the base morphs for races.

 

It is true that EEO has a modified Elven Race base morph, that overwrote the vanilla version (IMO though it wasn't much of a difference).

 

However, this morph is included inside of RaceMenu/Citrus (it's under the nuska folder and inside the .tri located there). It's just that because the vanilla femaleheadraces morph is already applied to the base head, calling the morph again as an additive slider in RM will distort results.

 

If your talking about sliders like jaw depth etc... that most people associate with EEO customized morphs, those are 100% included and all you need to do is find them inside the nuska .tri included in RM/Citrus and add it to the slider config file and use these new sliders instead of the vanilla based ones. (Or remap the existing slider to the new ones)

 

Edit:

 

For funsies, there's over at least 100 or more morphs included in RM/Citrus .tri's that are not mapped to sliders inside RM. A bunch of these morphs are shitty, or copies of another they were probably fuck ups by the original author's who for whatever reason decided to keep them included in the .tri's.

 

There couid also well be some good morphs that have yet to be mapped to sliders appropriately.

 

To date, unless some new facial morphs were made within the past few weeks, RM/Citrus contain all possible facial morph data inside of the .tri's

Excluding some special ones for Khajit and Argonian races.

 

 

 

When you say  that all facial morph data is contained in Racemenu/Citrus Heads, your talking about the Chargen.tri files, but the file that's needed to make EEO work is that modified Elven Race base morph that you were talking about.  

 

EEO changes the FemaleHeadRaces.tri from what it was in the vanilla game.  Citrus will overwrite this file, and return the morph shape of elves back to vanilla.  There's no getting around that.  

 

Sure, the morphs that EEO replaced in its FemaleHeadChargen.tri are in Racemenu (as non-replacers. Nose width and mouth width if i'm not mistaken) and Citrus can therefore use them, but until someone makes a FemaleHeadRaces.tri that works with Citrus Heads and applies EEO's changes to elves, it remains incompatible.  

 

The only reason to use EEO with Citrus Heads is if you want the normal maps and warpaints it uses (which is silly because you can get those files and use them without needing the mod itself).  But if you want EEO for its main significance, which is that it shortens the chin and makes elves look less freakish, then you can't use Citrus Heads, as it will overwrite the FemaleHeadRaces.tri back to what it was in Vanilla.

 

This keeps popping up in your Mod's reply thread and honestly it would be easier on you if you just outright said that while some of EEO's functionality is already embedded in Racemenu/Citrus, it won't work fully, and correctly with EEO.  Until someone goes into 3DS Max and makes the two work together by changing the races.tri, it will remain incompatible.   

 

 

 

You don't seem to understand.

 

The sliders you mention are contained in the additional nuska morph. You may make a new slider out of them and use those sliders instead of the vanilla based ones.

FemaleHeadRaces.tri ONLY contains the base hard coded morphs that get applied to the head on race change. IT DOES NOT CONTAIN MODIFIERS LIKE CHIN WIDTH ETC....

 

The ONLY morph that you would need 3dsmax work for is the replaced FemaleBaseElvenHead morph. And the work required would be a simple replace/overwrite of the vanilla.

However as I stated the nuska version and the vanilla version don't really have much of a difference (This is of course my own opinion)

 

 

 

Using version bubblegum with new RM3 beta, mirror node sculpt is off center:

 

 

 

 

 

Your image fails to load for me so I cannot see what your trying to illustrate.

 

 

Hopefully this attachment works.

 

 

Ahh, it's a problem with RM's implementation of 'mirroring'. It's positional based (less accurate). This is because vanilla head is not mirrored. Citrus heads is.

 

To get a more accurate result you'll probably need to play around with the brush settings in RM. Or use a proper 3d editor for less of a headache.

[ao2thend]

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, EEO also made changes to the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, in addition to replacing two vanilla game sliders (jaw forward and chin depth were changed).  I talked to Blabba about this awhile ago, and the conclusion was that in order to use EEO in its entirety with Citrus Heads, someone would need to make it compatible (which I tried and utterly failed at doing).  

 

Most other things that EEO does will work with Citrus heads, but FemaleHeadRaces.tri is really the backbone of EEO, and it doesn't work with Citrus Heads. 

 

 

FemaleHeadRaces.tri does not contain jaw/chin or any other sliders besides the base morphs for races.

 

It is true that EEO has a modified Elven Race base morph, that overwrote the vanilla version (IMO though it wasn't much of a difference).

 

However, this morph is included inside of RaceMenu/Citrus (it's under the nuska folder and inside the .tri located there). It's just that because the vanilla femaleheadraces morph is already applied to the base head, calling the morph again as an additive slider in RM will distort results.

 

If your talking about sliders like jaw depth etc... that most people associate with EEO customized morphs, those are 100% included and all you need to do is find them inside the nuska .tri included in RM/Citrus and add it to the slider config file and use these new sliders instead of the vanilla based ones. (Or remap the existing slider to the new ones)

 

Edit:

 

For funsies, there's over at least 100 or more morphs included in RM/Citrus .tri's that are not mapped to sliders inside RM. A bunch of these morphs are shitty, or copies of another they were probably fuck ups by the original author's who for whatever reason decided to keep them included in the .tri's.

 

There couid also well be some good morphs that have yet to be mapped to sliders appropriately.

 

To date, unless some new facial morphs were made within the past few weeks, RM/Citrus contain all possible facial morph data inside of the .tri's

Excluding some special ones for Khajit and Argonian races.

 

 

 

When you say  that all facial morph data is contained in Racemenu/Citrus Heads, your talking about the Chargen.tri files, but the file that's needed to make EEO work is that modified Elven Race base morph that you were talking about.  

 

EEO changes the FemaleHeadRaces.tri from what it was in the vanilla game.  Citrus will overwrite this file, and return the morph shape of elves back to vanilla.  There's no getting around that.  

 

Sure, the morphs that EEO replaced in its FemaleHeadChargen.tri are in Racemenu (as non-replacers. Nose width and mouth width if i'm not mistaken) and Citrus can therefore use them, but until someone makes a FemaleHeadRaces.tri that works with Citrus Heads and applies EEO's changes to elves, it remains incompatible.  

 

The only reason to use EEO with Citrus Heads is if you want the normal maps and warpaints it uses (which is silly because you can get those files and use them without needing the mod itself).  But if you want EEO for its main significance, which is that it shortens the chin and makes elves look less freakish, then you can't use Citrus Heads, as it will overwrite the FemaleHeadRaces.tri back to what it was in Vanilla.

 

This keeps popping up in your Mod's reply thread and honestly it would be easier on you if you just outright said that while some of EEO's functionality is already embedded in Racemenu/Citrus, it won't work fully, and correctly with EEO.  Until someone goes into 3DS Max and makes the two work together by changing the races.tri, it will remain incompatible.   

 

 

 

You don't seem to understand.

 

The sliders you mention are contained in the additional nuska morph. You may make a new slider out of them and use those sliders instead of the vanilla based ones.

FemaleHeadRaces.tri ONLY contains the base hard coded morphs that get applied to the head on race change. IT DOES NOT CONTAIN MODIFIERS LIKE CHIN WIDTH ETC....

 

The ONLY morph that you would need 3dsmax work for is the replaced FemaleBaseElvenHead morph. And the work required would be a simple replace/overwrite of the vanilla.

However as I stated the nuska version and the vanilla version don't really have much of a difference (This is of course my own opinion)

 

 

 

 

I do understand.  You don't seem to understand that i'm not talking about the sliders, and never have been.  

 

Did you ever use EEO?  It replaced two vanilla game sliders with different morphs.  That was all it did as far as sliders go.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Nuska later came along and helped Expired create Chargen Extension (Nuska created the morphs for it), which was later integrated into Racemenu.  EEO has nothing to with sliders.  The only morph sliders it changed were integrated into non-replacers when Chargen Extension was created.  

 

Again, let me re-iterate. I'm not talking about the morphs contained in racemenu, all of that's compatible with EEO and always has been.  I am talking about and have always been talking about the FemaleHeadRaces.tri.  I understand it doesn't add or contain modifiers (like I said, you were the one who explained that to me awhile back) but it does contain the hard coded morphs for each race and that's the file that doesn't work with your mod.  Change that one file out, and elves go back to their vanilla look.  Without that file, EEO doesn't look, or work as intended.  

 

So, like I said before, like I've been saying the whole time, FemaleHeadRaces.tri needs to be made to work with Citrus Heads in order for the two to be compatible.  You may not think its such a big difference, but it wouldn't be such a popular mod if that was the case.  

 

To this day, I haven't heard or seen anyone make EEO's FemaleHeadRaces.tri compatible with Citrus Heads, and I come by this mod page every once in a while to see if anyone ever did it.  I'm not sure its really as easy as you say it is, and the fact that no one's ever gotten the two mods to work is evidence enough.  But like I said before, EEO is not currently compatible with Citrus Heads.  The only way to get the two to work with each other is to edit the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, so that the "hard coded morphs that get applied to the head on race change" will not overwrite each other.  

[MrNoobMan]

Ok. i did the facegen thing and installed in in MO.

But all the NPCs doesn't move their lips when they talk :/

help anyone?

[Levionte]

Ok. i did the facegen thing and installed in in MO.

But all the NPCs doesn't move their lips when they talk :/

help anyone?

 

I have no way of knowing what you did, but I feel bad no one has jumped in to help you. So, I'll give you an overview the problem.

 

Any head mesh (NIF) needs the appropriate TRI files to make the lips move when they talk. Vanilla head needs the vanilla TRI files, and the Citrus head needs the Citrus TRI files. The purpose of exporting the facegen is that, regardless of the head nif in your character assets folder, the actual, individual character faces are still constructed with the vanilla head and thus made to work with the vanilla TRI files. If you're now using the Citrus TRI files, you need to replace/recreate the vanilla NIFs with Citrus ones via the exportation of the facegen data.

 

If the lips are not moving, that means you are not using a compatible head NIF and TRI file combination. If you archived the facegen files and put it into a mod as was suggested, be sure to  give that mod priority over any conflicts. I would also give the Citrus mod priority on the off chance some mod makes changes to the Character Assets folder. I don't use MO so I can't really give you specific instructions, but that would ensure you're using both the Citrus heads and TRI files. If that doesn't work then you did something wrong. I think you have to open the CK through MO so that the Ctirus Mod is activated when you do the export? I dunno. Again, I don't use MO, so that's the best I can offer you.

[MrNoobMan]

 

 

 

Ok. i did the facegen thing and installed in in MO.

But all the NPCs doesn't move their lips when they talk :/

help anyone?

 

I have no way of knowing what you did, but I feel bad no one has jumped in to help you. So, I'll give you an overview the problem.

 

Any head mesh (NIF) needs the appropriate TRI files to make the lips move when they talk. Vanilla head needs the vanilla TRI files, and the Citrus head needs the Citrus TRI files. The purpose of exporting the facegen is that, regardless of the head nif in your character assets folder, the actual, individual character faces are still constructed with the vanilla head and thus made to work with the vanilla TRI files. If you're now using the Citrus TRI files, you need to replace/recreate the vanilla NIFs with Citrus ones via the exportation of the facegen data.

 

If the lips are not moving, that means you are not using a compatible head NIF and TRI file combination. If you archived the facegen files and put it into a mod as was suggested, be sure to  give that mod priority over any conflicts. I would also give the Citrus mod priority on the off chance some mod makes changes to the Character Assets folder. I don't use MO so I can't really give you specific instructions, but that would ensure you're using both the Citrus heads and TRI files. If that doesn't work then you did something wrong. I think you have to open the CK through MO so that the Ctirus Mod is activated when you do the export? I dunno. Again, I don't use MO, so that's the best I can offer you.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for replying, but sadly this don't help, as I used CK through MO and MO claims that I am using the citrus files (they are at the bottom of my load order)

I forgot to mention, i get an error while facegening saying "Could not find (and apply) race morph 'DefaultRace' in TRI file 'actors\character\character\assets\MaleHeadRaces.tri' for geometry MaleHead"

[sidfu]

me i had issues where the bsa wasnt over righting the other head parts. here for thos thats lazy to extract it here the head parts along with hdt.xml referenced and spetaclar increased to 1000 and 9.ive already added the havok paths and the path is for the hdt.xml file.

meshes.rar

[jcinto23]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, EEO also made changes to the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, in addition to replacing two vanilla game sliders (jaw forward and chin depth were changed).  I talked to Blabba about this awhile ago, and the conclusion was that in order to use EEO in its entirety with Citrus Heads, someone would need to make it compatible (which I tried and utterly failed at doing).  

 

Most other things that EEO does will work with Citrus heads, but FemaleHeadRaces.tri is really the backbone of EEO, and it doesn't work with Citrus Heads. 

 

 

FemaleHeadRaces.tri does not contain jaw/chin or any other sliders besides the base morphs for races.

 

It is true that EEO has a modified Elven Race base morph, that overwrote the vanilla version (IMO though it wasn't much of a difference).

 

However, this morph is included inside of RaceMenu/Citrus (it's under the nuska folder and inside the .tri located there). It's just that because the vanilla femaleheadraces morph is already applied to the base head, calling the morph again as an additive slider in RM will distort results.

 

If your talking about sliders like jaw depth etc... that most people associate with EEO customized morphs, those are 100% included and all you need to do is find them inside the nuska .tri included in RM/Citrus and add it to the slider config file and use these new sliders instead of the vanilla based ones. (Or remap the existing slider to the new ones)

 

Edit:

 

For funsies, there's over at least 100 or more morphs included in RM/Citrus .tri's that are not mapped to sliders inside RM. A bunch of these morphs are shitty, or copies of another they were probably fuck ups by the original author's who for whatever reason decided to keep them included in the .tri's.

 

There couid also well be some good morphs that have yet to be mapped to sliders appropriately.

 

To date, unless some new facial morphs were made within the past few weeks, RM/Citrus contain all possible facial morph data inside of the .tri's

Excluding some special ones for Khajit and Argonian races.

 

 

 

When you say  that all facial morph data is contained in Racemenu/Citrus Heads, your talking about the Chargen.tri files, but the file that's needed to make EEO work is that modified Elven Race base morph that you were talking about.  

 

EEO changes the FemaleHeadRaces.tri from what it was in the vanilla game.  Citrus will overwrite this file, and return the morph shape of elves back to vanilla.  There's no getting around that.  

 

Sure, the morphs that EEO replaced in its FemaleHeadChargen.tri are in Racemenu (as non-replacers. Nose width and mouth width if i'm not mistaken) and Citrus can therefore use them, but until someone makes a FemaleHeadRaces.tri that works with Citrus Heads and applies EEO's changes to elves, it remains incompatible.  

 

The only reason to use EEO with Citrus Heads is if you want the normal maps and warpaints it uses (which is silly because you can get those files and use them without needing the mod itself).  But if you want EEO for its main significance, which is that it shortens the chin and makes elves look less freakish, then you can't use Citrus Heads, as it will overwrite the FemaleHeadRaces.tri back to what it was in Vanilla.

 

This keeps popping up in your Mod's reply thread and honestly it would be easier on you if you just outright said that while some of EEO's functionality is already embedded in Racemenu/Citrus, it won't work fully, and correctly with EEO.  Until someone goes into 3DS Max and makes the two work together by changing the races.tri, it will remain incompatible.   

 

 

 

You don't seem to understand.

 

The sliders you mention are contained in the additional nuska morph. You may make a new slider out of them and use those sliders instead of the vanilla based ones.

FemaleHeadRaces.tri ONLY contains the base hard coded morphs that get applied to the head on race change. IT DOES NOT CONTAIN MODIFIERS LIKE CHIN WIDTH ETC....

 

The ONLY morph that you would need 3dsmax work for is the replaced FemaleBaseElvenHead morph. And the work required would be a simple replace/overwrite of the vanilla.

However as I stated the nuska version and the vanilla version don't really have much of a difference (This is of course my own opinion)

 

 

 

 

I do understand.  You don't seem to understand that i'm not talking about the sliders, and never have been.  

 

Did you ever use EEO?  It replaced two vanilla game sliders with different morphs.  That was all it did as far as sliders go.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Nuska later came along and helped Expired create Chargen Extension (Nuska created the morphs for it), which was later integrated into Racemenu.  EEO has nothing to with sliders.  The only morph sliders it changed were integrated into non-replacers when Chargen Extension was created.  

 

Again, let me re-iterate. I'm not talking about the morphs contained in racemenu, all of that's compatible with EEO and always has been.  I am talking about and have always been talking about the FemaleHeadRaces.tri.  I understand it doesn't add or contain modifiers (like I said, you were the one who explained that to me awhile back) but it does contain the hard coded morphs for each race and that's the file that doesn't work with your mod.  Change that one file out, and elves go back to their vanilla look.  Without that file, EEO doesn't look, or work as intended.  

 

So, like I said before, like I've been saying the whole time, FemaleHeadRaces.tri needs to be made to work with Citrus Heads in order for the two to be compatible.  You may not think its such a big difference, but it wouldn't be such a popular mod if that was the case.  

 

To this day, I haven't heard or seen anyone make EEO's FemaleHeadRaces.tri compatible with Citrus Heads, and I come by this mod page every once in a while to see if anyone ever did it.  I'm not sure its really as easy as you say it is, and the fact that no one's ever gotten the two mods to work is evidence enough.  But like I said before, EEO is not currently compatible with Citrus Heads.  The only way to get the two to work with each other is to edit the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, so that the "hard coded morphs that get applied to the head on race change" will not overwrite each other.  

 

 

He's right. I have been looking at all of your various forum posts about EEO and your heads, and frankly, it seems like bulls***. The part people want from EEO is the base shape the sliders edit, not the sliders to edit the shape. What i would like, is for you to either acknowledge that there is a problem and then either fix it, or tell us how to fix it. Citrus is your mod after all.

 

EDIT

 

Lykaios is f***ed too

 

ANOTHER EDIT

 

I think you should contact the authors of popular race/face mods and try to figure out a way to patch this. No one can really use this for your intended purpose (freedom and variety) until then. I also think you should make a skyproc-type patch (if possible) to open vanilla facegens, read the data, transfer it to your heads, and then inject the new citrus gen into the .nifs. Honestly I am not very learned in this area so the patcher idea may be impossible.

 

I would also like to apologize for my temper previously. You just have this way of sounding very stuck up and condescending, as if we are all lesser beings. I know others have noticed that too, so maybe work on your people skills in the future.

 

[DaXmAn]

Guys,

 

I have small issue with this lovly mesh mod.

Using standalone version for existing character, when I change sex I am able to see new mesh (confirmed with twf view)... but when I load my racemenu preset... old low poly mesh is loaded back...

 

Is that because I have "sculpt" data in my preset?

 

Any idea how to avoid this?

[Akzyra]

There is a slider where you can change between headmeshes. One of the first categories.

Don't know exactly at the moment.

[blabba]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, EEO also made changes to the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, in addition to replacing two vanilla game sliders (jaw forward and chin depth were changed).  I talked to Blabba about this awhile ago, and the conclusion was that in order to use EEO in its entirety with Citrus Heads, someone would need to make it compatible (which I tried and utterly failed at doing).  

 

Most other things that EEO does will work with Citrus heads, but FemaleHeadRaces.tri is really the backbone of EEO, and it doesn't work with Citrus Heads. 

 

 

FemaleHeadRaces.tri does not contain jaw/chin or any other sliders besides the base morphs for races.

 

It is true that EEO has a modified Elven Race base morph, that overwrote the vanilla version (IMO though it wasn't much of a difference).

 

However, this morph is included inside of RaceMenu/Citrus (it's under the nuska folder and inside the .tri located there). It's just that because the vanilla femaleheadraces morph is already applied to the base head, calling the morph again as an additive slider in RM will distort results.

 

If your talking about sliders like jaw depth etc... that most people associate with EEO customized morphs, those are 100% included and all you need to do is find them inside the nuska .tri included in RM/Citrus and add it to the slider config file and use these new sliders instead of the vanilla based ones. (Or remap the existing slider to the new ones)

 

Edit:

 

For funsies, there's over at least 100 or more morphs included in RM/Citrus .tri's that are not mapped to sliders inside RM. A bunch of these morphs are shitty, or copies of another they were probably fuck ups by the original author's who for whatever reason decided to keep them included in the .tri's.

 

There couid also well be some good morphs that have yet to be mapped to sliders appropriately.

 

To date, unless some new facial morphs were made within the past few weeks, RM/Citrus contain all possible facial morph data inside of the .tri's

Excluding some special ones for Khajit and Argonian races.

 

 

 

When you say  that all facial morph data is contained in Racemenu/Citrus Heads, your talking about the Chargen.tri files, but the file that's needed to make EEO work is that modified Elven Race base morph that you were talking about.  

 

EEO changes the FemaleHeadRaces.tri from what it was in the vanilla game.  Citrus will overwrite this file, and return the morph shape of elves back to vanilla.  There's no getting around that.  

 

Sure, the morphs that EEO replaced in its FemaleHeadChargen.tri are in Racemenu (as non-replacers. Nose width and mouth width if i'm not mistaken) and Citrus can therefore use them, but until someone makes a FemaleHeadRaces.tri that works with Citrus Heads and applies EEO's changes to elves, it remains incompatible.  

 

The only reason to use EEO with Citrus Heads is if you want the normal maps and warpaints it uses (which is silly because you can get those files and use them without needing the mod itself).  But if you want EEO for its main significance, which is that it shortens the chin and makes elves look less freakish, then you can't use Citrus Heads, as it will overwrite the FemaleHeadRaces.tri back to what it was in Vanilla.

 

This keeps popping up in your Mod's reply thread and honestly it would be easier on you if you just outright said that while some of EEO's functionality is already embedded in Racemenu/Citrus, it won't work fully, and correctly with EEO.  Until someone goes into 3DS Max and makes the two work together by changing the races.tri, it will remain incompatible.   

 

 

 

You don't seem to understand.

 

The sliders you mention are contained in the additional nuska morph. You may make a new slider out of them and use those sliders instead of the vanilla based ones.

FemaleHeadRaces.tri ONLY contains the base hard coded morphs that get applied to the head on race change. IT DOES NOT CONTAIN MODIFIERS LIKE CHIN WIDTH ETC....

 

The ONLY morph that you would need 3dsmax work for is the replaced FemaleBaseElvenHead morph. And the work required would be a simple replace/overwrite of the vanilla.

However as I stated the nuska version and the vanilla version don't really have much of a difference (This is of course my own opinion)

 

 

 

 

I do understand.  You don't seem to understand that i'm not talking about the sliders, and never have been.  

 

Did you ever use EEO?  It replaced two vanilla game sliders with different morphs.  That was all it did as far as sliders go.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Nuska later came along and helped Expired create Chargen Extension (Nuska created the morphs for it), which was later integrated into Racemenu.  EEO has nothing to with sliders.  The only morph sliders it changed were integrated into non-replacers when Chargen Extension was created.  

 

Again, let me re-iterate. I'm not talking about the morphs contained in racemenu, all of that's compatible with EEO and always has been.  I am talking about and have always been talking about the FemaleHeadRaces.tri.  I understand it doesn't add or contain modifiers (like I said, you were the one who explained that to me awhile back) but it does contain the hard coded morphs for each race and that's the file that doesn't work with your mod.  Change that one file out, and elves go back to their vanilla look.  Without that file, EEO doesn't look, or work as intended.  

 

So, like I said before, like I've been saying the whole time, FemaleHeadRaces.tri needs to be made to work with Citrus Heads in order for the two to be compatible.  You may not think its such a big difference, but it wouldn't be such a popular mod if that was the case.  

 

To this day, I haven't heard or seen anyone make EEO's FemaleHeadRaces.tri compatible with Citrus Heads, and I come by this mod page every once in a while to see if anyone ever did it.  I'm not sure its really as easy as you say it is, and the fact that no one's ever gotten the two mods to work is evidence enough.  But like I said before, EEO is not currently compatible with Citrus Heads.  The only way to get the two to work with each other is to edit the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, so that the "hard coded morphs that get applied to the head on race change" will not overwrite each other.  

 

 

He's right. I have been looking at all of your various forum posts about EEO and your heads, and frankly, it seems like bulls***. The part people want from EEO is the base shape the sliders edit, not the sliders to edit the shape. What i would like, is for you to either acknowledge that there is a problem and then either fix it, or tell us how to fix it. Citrus is your mod after all.

 

EDIT

 

Lykaios is f***ed too

 

ANOTHER EDIT

 

I think you should contact the authors of popular race/face mods and try to figure out a way to patch this. No one can really use this for your intended purpose (freedom and variety) until then. I also think you should make a skyproc-type patch (if possible) to open vanilla facegens, read the data, transfer it to your heads, and then inject the new citrus gen into the .nifs. Honestly I am not very learned in this area so the patcher idea may be impossible.

 

I would also like to apologize for my temper previously. You just have this way of sounding very stuck up and condescending, as if we are all lesser beings. I know others have noticed that too, so maybe work on your people skills in the future.

 

 

 

 

I only have 1 suggestion for you, uninstall this mod and continue to play skyrim without it.

 

Before you try commenting on how mods work, or what is compatible and what isn't. You should know what your talking about.

You clearly show you have absolutely no knowledge of what is contained in the nuska .tri files, what a .tri file even is, how chargen even works, what the difference is between additive and replacement morphing etc... or any of the other related stuff that pertains to your request.

 

For anyone else asking about the EEO morphs and want them to be EXACTLY the same look without using sculpting or tweaking sliders to different/new values than what they were previously. The short answer is that I WILL NEVER MAKE THAT HAPPEN. It is simply too much work, requires me to overwrite morphs that I think already look decent. Yes, this is my opinion, but then I'm the one who made the mod aren't I? I would rather keep the mod's direction similar to Expired's direction with chargen, which means to only ADD morphs and choices. This is because I don't feel like making 100 different versions where all I do is replace morphs for sliders and maintain all of them.

 

I should say that as mentioned in the permissions part, I will NEVER be against someone taking and modifying the mod to suit your needs and redistributing it. I encourage others to take up modding to suit their needs and if you ever need help doing it, feel free to ask.

 

 

Guys,

 

I have small issue with this lovly mesh mod.

Using standalone version for existing character, when I change sex I am able to see new mesh (confirmed with twf view)... but when I load my racemenu preset... old low poly mesh is loaded back...

 

Is that because I have "sculpt" data in my preset?

 

Any idea how to avoid this?

 

 

Expired probably did a force change to make sure if your preset contains sculpt data it will load the corresponding head that matches it. (This is pure assumption on my part, I have not been actively modding recently and have not kept contact with expired to learn of his new RM changes). If that is so, then the only possible way to load a preset is to make sure the preset does not have sculpt data. Unfortunately I have no good suggestions there, you might try asking expired about it on his RM thread.

[ao2thend]

 

For anyone else asking about the EEO morphs and want them to be EXACTLY the same look without using sculpting or tweaking sliders to different/new values than what they were previously. The short answer is that I WILL NEVER MAKE THAT HAPPEN. It is simply too much work, requires me to overwrite morphs that I think already look decent. Yes, this is my opinion, but then I'm the one who made the mod aren't I? I would rather keep the mod's direction similar to Expired's direction with chargen, which means to only ADD morphs and choices. This is because I don't feel like making 100 different versions where all I do is replace morphs for sliders and maintain all of them.

 

So EEO doesn't work with your mod...

 

Wouldn't it have been easier to say that in the first place? 

 

It's this simple:  "EEO IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH MY HEAD MESH, NOR SHALL IT BE. FOR I, THE GREAT AND POWERFUL BLABBA HAS SPOKEN.  

 

See?  Easy.  Not sure why that was so hard to do.  

 

And by the way, if you actually want your mod to be usable for the majority of folks playing Skyrim, it would be in your best interest to make it compatible with EEO. However it is your mod, and what you do with it is entirely up to you.  If you don't want to make it compatible with a mod that is considered by almost everyone to be essential to Skyrim, then that's totally your choice, and I won't argue with that.  Just say that it's not compatible if your mod doesn't work with another mod.  

 

Simple.

[DaXmAn]

There is a slider where you can change between headmeshes. One of the first categories.

Don't know exactly at the moment.

 

Thanks! You were right. There is a slider called "Face Part" which changes head mesh.

[blabba]

Just confirmed with Expired, RM3 loads a preset with whatever head you originally saved the preset on.

 

So if you saved a preset with vanilla head, and require it to be updated to citrus head you'll need to do an additional step of toggling the face part slider to citrus head.

 

I'll update OP instructions to reflect this.

 

The above only works fine if your preset doesn't use any sculpt data from the vanilla head though.

 

Edit:

 

I am actively working on a 3dsmax script to help speed up converting vanilla face data into citrus head morph data. I will release it here along with a pic tutorial similar to my other guides.

[DaXmAn]

The above only works fine if your preset doesn't use any sculpt data from the vanilla head though.

 

This is strange because I had sculpt data saved for vanilla head, and I was able to switch to Citrus head.

[Akzyra]

Did you keep the sculpt? I assume No. Vertex order would make a mess.

[DaXmAn]

Did you keep the sculpt? I assume No. Vertex order would make a mess.

 

Ofourse I did not keep the sculpt, because mesh is totally different. But there was no mess, just default look.

Good to know that blabba is working on a script, the question is... why 3ds max? Most users cannot afford this software...

[blabba]

I guess expired wrote in a check fro sculpt data as well? Another question I need to ask him about lol.

 

I'm writing it for 3dsmax because that's the tool I use, obviously I didn't pay for my copy, but seeing as I'm not selling any work and merely doing it as a hobby I do not believe Autodesk will take issues with me using their free educational licence.

 

I also just don't know the math behind skin deformers, so I couldn't probably come up with a standalone tool anytime soon.

[Kestrix]

Hey blabba bby turns out I didn't need to do anything different or special to get pretty khajiit to work with citrus. I guess I was overworking myself about it.

[jcinto23]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, EEO also made changes to the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, in addition to replacing two vanilla game sliders (jaw forward and chin depth were changed).  I talked to Blabba about this awhile ago, and the conclusion was that in order to use EEO in its entirety with Citrus Heads, someone would need to make it compatible (which I tried and utterly failed at doing).  

 

Most other things that EEO does will work with Citrus heads, but FemaleHeadRaces.tri is really the backbone of EEO, and it doesn't work with Citrus Heads. 

 

 

FemaleHeadRaces.tri does not contain jaw/chin or any other sliders besides the base morphs for races.

 

It is true that EEO has a modified Elven Race base morph, that overwrote the vanilla version (IMO though it wasn't much of a difference).

 

However, this morph is included inside of RaceMenu/Citrus (it's under the nuska folder and inside the .tri located there). It's just that because the vanilla femaleheadraces morph is already applied to the base head, calling the morph again as an additive slider in RM will distort results.

 

If your talking about sliders like jaw depth etc... that most people associate with EEO customized morphs, those are 100% included and all you need to do is find them inside the nuska .tri included in RM/Citrus and add it to the slider config file and use these new sliders instead of the vanilla based ones. (Or remap the existing slider to the new ones)

 

Edit:

 

For funsies, there's over at least 100 or more morphs included in RM/Citrus .tri's that are not mapped to sliders inside RM. A bunch of these morphs are shitty, or copies of another they were probably fuck ups by the original author's who for whatever reason decided to keep them included in the .tri's.

 

There couid also well be some good morphs that have yet to be mapped to sliders appropriately.

 

To date, unless some new facial morphs were made within the past few weeks, RM/Citrus contain all possible facial morph data inside of the .tri's

Excluding some special ones for Khajit and Argonian races.

 

 

 

When you say  that all facial morph data is contained in Racemenu/Citrus Heads, your talking about the Chargen.tri files, but the file that's needed to make EEO work is that modified Elven Race base morph that you were talking about.  

 

EEO changes the FemaleHeadRaces.tri from what it was in the vanilla game.  Citrus will overwrite this file, and return the morph shape of elves back to vanilla.  There's no getting around that.  

 

Sure, the morphs that EEO replaced in its FemaleHeadChargen.tri are in Racemenu (as non-replacers. Nose width and mouth width if i'm not mistaken) and Citrus can therefore use them, but until someone makes a FemaleHeadRaces.tri that works with Citrus Heads and applies EEO's changes to elves, it remains incompatible.  

 

The only reason to use EEO with Citrus Heads is if you want the normal maps and warpaints it uses (which is silly because you can get those files and use them without needing the mod itself).  But if you want EEO for its main significance, which is that it shortens the chin and makes elves look less freakish, then you can't use Citrus Heads, as it will overwrite the FemaleHeadRaces.tri back to what it was in Vanilla.

 

This keeps popping up in your Mod's reply thread and honestly it would be easier on you if you just outright said that while some of EEO's functionality is already embedded in Racemenu/Citrus, it won't work fully, and correctly with EEO.  Until someone goes into 3DS Max and makes the two work together by changing the races.tri, it will remain incompatible.   

 

 

 

You don't seem to understand.

 

The sliders you mention are contained in the additional nuska morph. You may make a new slider out of them and use those sliders instead of the vanilla based ones.

FemaleHeadRaces.tri ONLY contains the base hard coded morphs that get applied to the head on race change. IT DOES NOT CONTAIN MODIFIERS LIKE CHIN WIDTH ETC....

 

The ONLY morph that you would need 3dsmax work for is the replaced FemaleBaseElvenHead morph. And the work required would be a simple replace/overwrite of the vanilla.

However as I stated the nuska version and the vanilla version don't really have much of a difference (This is of course my own opinion)

 

 

 

 

I do understand.  You don't seem to understand that i'm not talking about the sliders, and never have been.  

 

Did you ever use EEO?  It replaced two vanilla game sliders with different morphs.  That was all it did as far as sliders go.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Nuska later came along and helped Expired create Chargen Extension (Nuska created the morphs for it), which was later integrated into Racemenu.  EEO has nothing to with sliders.  The only morph sliders it changed were integrated into non-replacers when Chargen Extension was created.  

 

Again, let me re-iterate. I'm not talking about the morphs contained in racemenu, all of that's compatible with EEO and always has been.  I am talking about and have always been talking about the FemaleHeadRaces.tri.  I understand it doesn't add or contain modifiers (like I said, you were the one who explained that to me awhile back) but it does contain the hard coded morphs for each race and that's the file that doesn't work with your mod.  Change that one file out, and elves go back to their vanilla look.  Without that file, EEO doesn't look, or work as intended.  

 

So, like I said before, like I've been saying the whole time, FemaleHeadRaces.tri needs to be made to work with Citrus Heads in order for the two to be compatible.  You may not think its such a big difference, but it wouldn't be such a popular mod if that was the case.  

 

To this day, I haven't heard or seen anyone make EEO's FemaleHeadRaces.tri compatible with Citrus Heads, and I come by this mod page every once in a while to see if anyone ever did it.  I'm not sure its really as easy as you say it is, and the fact that no one's ever gotten the two mods to work is evidence enough.  But like I said before, EEO is not currently compatible with Citrus Heads.  The only way to get the two to work with each other is to edit the FemaleHeadRaces.tri, so that the "hard coded morphs that get applied to the head on race change" will not overwrite each other.  

 

 

He's right. I have been looking at all of your various forum posts about EEO and your heads, and frankly, it seems like bulls***. The part people want from EEO is the base shape the sliders edit, not the sliders to edit the shape. What i would like, is for you to either acknowledge that there is a problem and then either fix it, or tell us how to fix it. Citrus is your mod after all.

 

EDIT

 

Lykaios is f***ed too

 

ANOTHER EDIT

 

I think you should contact the authors of popular race/face mods and try to figure out a way to patch this. No one can really use this for your intended purpose (freedom and variety) until then. I also think you should make a skyproc-type patch (if possible) to open vanilla facegens, read the data, transfer it to your heads, and then inject the new citrus gen into the .nifs. Honestly I am not very learned in this area so the patcher idea may be impossible.

 

I would also like to apologize for my temper previously. You just have this way of sounding very stuck up and condescending, as if we are all lesser beings. I know others have noticed that too, so maybe work on your people skills in the future.

 

 

 

 

I only have 1 suggestion for you, uninstall this mod and continue to play skyrim without it.

 

Before you try commenting on how mods work, or what is compatible and what isn't. You should know what your talking about.

You clearly show you have absolutely no knowledge of what is contained in the nuska .tri files, what a .tri file even is, how chargen even works, what the difference is between additive and replacement morphing etc... or any of the other related stuff that pertains to your request.

 

For anyone else asking about the EEO morphs and want them to be EXACTLY the same look without using sculpting or tweaking sliders to different/new values than what they were previously. The short answer is that I WILL NEVER MAKE THAT HAPPEN. It is simply too much work, requires me to overwrite morphs that I think already look decent. Yes, this is my opinion, but then I'm the one who made the mod aren't I? I would rather keep the mod's direction similar to Expired's direction with chargen, which means to only ADD morphs and choices. This is because I don't feel like making 100 different versions where all I do is replace morphs for sliders and maintain all of them.

 

I should say that as mentioned in the permissions part, I will NEVER be against someone taking and modifying the mod to suit your needs and redistributing it. I encourage others to take up modding to suit their needs and if you ever need help doing it, feel free to ask.

 

 

Guys,

 

I have small issue with this lovly mesh mod.

Using standalone version for existing character, when I change sex I am able to see new mesh (confirmed with twf view)... but when I load my racemenu preset... old low poly mesh is loaded back...

 

Is that because I have "sculpt" data in my preset?

 

Any idea how to avoid this?

 

 

Expired probably did a force change to make sure if your preset contains sculpt data it will load the corresponding head that matches it. (This is pure assumption on my part, I have not been actively modding recently and have not kept contact with expired to learn of his new RM changes). If that is so, then the only possible way to load a preset is to make sure the preset does not have sculpt data. Unfortunately I have no good suggestions there, you might try asking expired about it on his RM thread.

 

 

Look, I gave you a suggestion, but you have some serious anger issues. Maybe I don't understand .tri s, but i don't hear you trying to explain it. You just act all high and mighty and call us jackasses (don't fucking quote me)

 

I think it would be in the mod's best interest to start figuring out compatibilities if you want this to actually take off since it is incompatible with some of the MOST POPULAR RACE MODS (yeah, i can use caps too), but like you said, it is your mod, and thus me, a mere user can only suggest and speculate on the tomfuckery that you seem to be spewing.

 

The problem is the HeadRaces.tri s. Specifically the three elf .obj s, that your integrated nuska, and other glorious morphs edit, compiled in them. What we are ASKING for is for you to create, or give us the tools and info on your specific meshes and morphs to create, a new base head shape .obj that has elf base shapes that look more like the EEO bases, than the current high poly vanilla-based ones you are currently using. Before you say I am an ignorant douche, I looked up how .tri s work and even tore open your existing ones to see if i could fix it myself (and compared yours and the eeo FemaleHeadRaces.tri .obj s and guess what, THEY WERE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BASE MESHES!!! ), but at my current skill level, i can not. Thus I am SUGGESTING that you figure out patches, or at the very least message the creators of, the more popular race mods. (Lykaios comes to mind)

[Akzyra]

Sorry to butt in, ...

...why are you still obsessing about this? He won't do it. If you want it find someone else, do it yourself or drop it completely.

It is ok to request some stuff, but in the end its up to the mod author to do what he wants.


Not all mods work together... Find a compromise.

 

 

 

On a different topic:
Is it possible to attach other meshes (Teeth) to only the player?

[blabba]

 

On a different topic:

Is it possible to attach other meshes (Teeth) to only the player?

 

Yeap, you need a bit of ck (Need to make the teeth their own new facepart) work and an .ini for Expired's Chargen plugin to pick it up.