kissofthehell Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 You probably know how robes and long dresses behave when walking, especially at the leg parts of it. In every game i have played i have yet to see a proper long dress or robe walking behavior. I think I've seen only one time in a game. My question is is it possible via HDT to make long dresses behave properly when walking and running and look ... wierd. I think some people know what i mean. Ive seen some HDT clothing mods with physics that move really nice.
blabba Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 yes it's possible. It's also a lot of work (see Yoo's excellent Empire Coat mod) The time put into these things a good amount and unfortunately due to the nature of HDT, it does not help itself in being easily transformable to other body shapes. (The collision that is, if you can live with clipping through your legs and body during movements then yea, you can port them to other bodies just like normal clothes)
Yoo Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 Im back from the dead... @"orange thing" You'll make me blush... Back on topic, yes its quite some work, check the empire coat thread, it was just a test to try to add cloth physics using HDT and I tossed some rants explaining the different approaches I took (yes, I did the whole HDT - Rigging thing 3 times). Read that and watch Candyman videos (Canderes) and you'll be doing it without problem but, as I said, it will take time (mostly the rigging since you'll have to deal with 4 influences all the time). I was also working on Merida's dress (a really long dress) but its at a "halted" state atm (ESO is taking a good part of my free time, and well DS2 is gonna kill the rest of it). Anyway, I usually lurk the forums so I would gladly help you...
b00marrows Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 Im back from the dead... @"orange thing" You'll make me blush... Back on topic, yes its quite some work, check the empire coat thread, it was just a test to try to add cloth physics using HDT and I tossed some rants explaining the different approaches I took (yes, I did the whole HDT - Rigging thing 3 times). Read that and watch Candyman videos (Canderes) and you'll be doing it without problem but, as I said, it will take time (mostly the rigging since you'll have to deal with 4 influences all the time). I was also working on Merida's dress (a really long dress) but its at a "halted" state atm (ESO is taking a good part of my free time, and well DS2 is gonna kill the rest of it). Anyway, I usually lurk the forums so I would gladly help you... have you seen the havoc clothing in ds2? oh ho ho ho its nice...
kissofthehell Posted May 4, 2014 Author Posted May 4, 2014 Im back from the dead... @"orange thing" You'll make me blush... Back on topic, yes its quite some work, check the empire coat thread, it was just a test to try to add cloth physics using HDT and I tossed some rants explaining the different approaches I took (yes, I did the whole HDT - Rigging thing 3 times). Read that and watch Candyman videos (Canderes) and you'll be doing it without problem but, as I said, it will take time (mostly the rigging since you'll have to deal with 4 influences all the time). I was also working on Merida's dress (a really long dress) but its at a "halted" state atm (ESO is taking a good part of my free time, and well DS2 is gonna kill the rest of it). Anyway, I usually lurk the forums so I would gladly help you... have you seen the havoc clothing in ds2? oh ho ho ho its nice... Yeah i forgot to mention DS2. The physics there are nice too. DS2 PC <3 Smooth 60fps on high while DS1 barely got me 20fps To topic. I guess i might try HDT rig but its unlikely i would do something. Thanks for the info
blabba Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I think DS2 actually uses Havok Cloth simulation software. HDT physics on the other hand is using the normal Havok physics engine, we just set it up to work with clothes and stuff, even though it's hardly optimized for doing such a thing. And no we're most likely never going to see true cloth physics (if you guys have ever looked at the first cape physics mod using true verlet physics, you'll notice the guy stated that verlet physics is pretty well hard coded in the game engine)
b00marrows Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I think DS2 actually uses Havok Cloth simulation software. HDT physics on the other hand is using the normal Havok physics engine, we just set it up to work with clothes and stuff, even though it's hardly optimized for doing such a thing. And no we're most likely never going to see true cloth physics (if you guys have ever looked at the first cape physics mod using true verlet physics, you'll notice the guy stated that verlet physics is pretty well hard coded in the game engine) I beleave you are correct, this is sad news. So there's no chance in getting that in skyrim huh? damn... could you elaborate on the reasons why? (sorry) EDIT: from the bit of research i did, im guessing Skyrim's engine cant calculate numerically the way Havoc Cloth needs?
blabba Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I beleave you are correct, this is sad news. So there's no chance in getting that in skyrim huh? damn... could you elaborate on the reasons why? (sorry) EDIT: from the bit of research i did, im guessing Skyrim's engine cant calculate numerically the way Havoc Cloth needs? To be honest I don't know why. Maybe Bethesda never went ahead and modified the game engine to accept Havok Cloth simulation files. Or they never payed the licensing fee for that product or what not. (Doubt the last one though as they showed in their gamejam demo that they applied havok cloth to lots of things) Then again people at Bethesda have the full toolsets and support so unless we get the same level of tools it'll be hard for us. Canderes made a blog rant/post about this over here: http://www.loverslab.com/blog/82/entry-329-how-bad-did-bethesda-screw-modders-and-everyone-else-with-skyrim-a-rant-or-something-more/ As for the reason why verlet is hardcoded, I have no idea, I never really took a look at the code or models myself but the author of the original verlet cape physics mod posted various tidbits of info on his mod thread here: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/32282/?
b00marrows Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I beleave you are correct, this is sad news. So there's no chance in getting that in skyrim huh? damn... could you elaborate on the reasons why? (sorry) EDIT: from the bit of research i did, im guessing Skyrim's engine cant calculate numerically the way Havoc Cloth needs? To be honest I don't know why. Maybe Bethesda never went ahead and modified the game engine to accept Havok Cloth simulation files. Or they never payed the licensing fee for that product or what not. (Doubt the last one though as they showed in their gamejam demo that they applied havok cloth to lots of things) Then again people at Bethesda have the full toolsets and support so unless we get the same level of tools it'll be hard for us. Canderes made a blog rant/post about this over here: http://www.loverslab.com/blog/82/entry-329-how-bad-did-bethesda-screw-modders-and-everyone-else-with-skyrim-a-rant-or-something-more/ As for the reason why verlet is hardcoded, I have no idea, I never really took a look at the code or models myself but the author of the original verlet cape physics mod posted various tidbits of info on his mod thread here: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/32282/? Well.. this all points to 1 thing. ...Console gaming... yeah... they fucked up allot of things in skyrim and i blame 100% of it to the console side of it. I'm actually not much of a fan of skyrim, i hated allot of things they did to it. (i went into a huge 3 paragraph rant here, but you don't need to see that..) Well, we will just have to deal with when we have. maybe someone can crack open every byte of skyrim and open up new paths for modding. maybe someone will find a way of injecting directx11, only the future will tell.
RomeoZero Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 As i think people with knowledge need to study verlet physics more for skyrim ,i see many tutorials for verlet in the net.
blabba Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 As i think people with knowledge need to study verlet physics more for skyrim ,i see many tutorials for verlet in the net. True Verlet physics is pretty much hardcoded. http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1401274-question-harkons-vampire-lord-cape/page-7 And unless someone can receive the source/toolkit/guides from Havok for their Havok Cloth product it will likely stay that way. Same thing for Havok Destruction. Both of those are proprietary and I don't see Havok giving us free access to the tools anytime soon. If they were available to modders, I'm sure we could come up with true verlet physics and the destructible bridges that were showcased in the infamous mod jam from Bethesda for Skyrim.
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