Thinking about getting a new graphics card, total hardware noob

[gooboo]

I've been thinking about upgrading my graphics card in the hopes of improving my ability to play Skyrim. My current get up work pretty well, as I can play Skyrim on medium vanilla settings without many problems. After downloading all of the  popular patches and fixes available for making Skyrim more stable, I don't really have any issues with the game crashing frequently anymore. I would however like to try to play Skyrim with higher display settings and perhaps and enb, and also be able to fight in bigger battles without my game slowing down as much as it does. If I try to play any enb right now- even the lighter, low performance kind- my computer slows down too much to do anything beyond taking a screenshot. When I first bought this computer getting a high-end graphics card wasn't really a priority, so I didn't spend much money on it. 

 

I'll be totally honest and say I'm completely a noob when it comes to computer hardware, or figuring out what kind of hardware I can use with my current system and all that. I'm not looking to rebuild my entire computer, just get a component or two that could make gameplay a little smoother, and also won't be too obsolete for some of the other games that will be coming out in the future like Dragon Age III or Fallout 4.

 

This is the info I got from dxdiag. If I'm missing some important piece of info, let me know-

 

System Model: Dell Vostro 460

Processor: Intel Core i5-2500 CPU @ 3.30 GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.3GHz

Memory: 8192MB RAM

 

Graphics Card; NVIDIA GeForce GT 420

DAC Type: Integrated RAMDAC

 

Assuming that getting a new graphics card will help improve my Skyrim performance, does anyone have any suggestions what I should get? Or maybe where I should start looking? There's so many different hardware and graphics card options out there I'm not even sure where to start looking for one that works with my current system, or which graphics cards are overkill for what I need.

 

Like I said, I'm very much a noob when it comes to this kind of thing, and any help I could get would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[nutluck]

Well it depends on a few things.

 

1) What size power supply do you have? Have to make sure it is enough to cover the new card.

 

2) What is your budget?

 

3) Are you looking for the best you can afford and work with your system or are you looking for the best bang for your buck that is a upgrade?

[gooboo]

Where can I find out what power supply I have? I didn't see it in the dxdiag. Sorry if that's a really obvious question.

 

I think I'm willing to spend some money on a nice graphics card that works with this system if it lasts for awhile. I don't want really want to have to deal with any upgrades for some of the future games that will be coming out. 

 

 

**EDIT** nevermind about the power supply thing, I just read I'm going to have to open the computer up in order to find out. 

[nutluck]

Assuming it is a desktop you have two chooses. With a laptop you only have the first option.

 

1) Look up your model number online. The specs will list what the power supply is.

 

2) Open you case side panel and look inside. It should be right on the side or front of the power supply the information about it including the wattage.

[gooboo]

I looked up the Vostro 460 online and from what I'm reading it seems like the computer comes with a 350 watt power supply. I haven't done any modifications to my own computer, so I'm going to assume for now that mine is the same.

[nutluck]

A 350w PS is not much I am honestly not sure their is any video cards you can upgrade to that would work with that power supply that would make any real difference. If you want to upgrade the video card to anything that makes a real difference you will need to upgrade the power supply as well I am afraid.

[gooboo]

Just read a post elsewhere about upgrading the power supply in the vostro 460 to 500 watts, seemed like me to be pretty good advice-

 

 

SLI is dual graphics for Nvidia not AMD. But that's irrelevant. 

Regular size PSU should fit fine.
From the pics I could find online most graphics cards should fit just fine but you might want to take some measurements before you buy just to be sure.

500 to 600 watts is all you will ever need in a power supply, you can't have dual graphics on that motherboard so you will never need more than 500 watts (excpet for in a single card dual gpu solution but that's beyond your budget). 

Here is an excellent PSU at a nice price:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

This GPU would put your current card to shame, but it might be overkill and therefore a waste of money:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

 

What do people think about the graphics card this person was suggesting? Is it a good one, is it overkill, or is there something better you might recommend?

[LaEspada]

I had a similar experience when I was going to upgrade my Nvidia GT 545, i had no idea how to make sure it was compatible. I eventually got a Nvidia GTX 660 ti. Which is so much better and quieter!

 

1) Make sure your power supply is adequate enough

 

2) make sure about motherboard compatibility, make sure it's the same size PCI slots

 

3) do you have room for the new graphics card in your computer's tower?

[gooboo]

Well the conversation I posted above was about a Dell Vostro 460 mini tower, which is the computer that I have. That particular response was the highest rated on the thread, so I'm assuming the information it had was correct. Here is the link to the whole thread-

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/354801-28-power-supply-upgrade

 

So it sounds like all I realistically need in terms of power to upgrade my graphics card is at least 500 watts, though I still don't know what graphics card to get. I think it's an Intel motherboard, though I'm not sure. 

[RitualClarity]

Upgrading your graphic cards...

• Size and dimensions need to be checked to be sure the new card fits.
• cooling and air flow, must be checked to be sure there is enough fan or updatability, important for factory build systems even more than custom as they usually have the bare minimum. Upgrading slightly shouldn't be a problem
• Upgrade graphic card slot. What type is it. PCI express 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, AGP PCI etc.
• Operating System. Generally OK in this area most graphic cards work with Win XP and above. This is for those people upgrading a Mac Tower, or desire to also run Linux.
• Power use of the system.
• Power use of the graphic card (suggested power supply from the graphic card manufacture should be enough
• Power AMPs on a 12+ rail also needs to be checked if required by a graphic card, if too low, might not start, or would stress the power supply and cause a premature failure of that power supply if not enough. Same with improper wattage.
• Full size slot or "half height" graphic slot. This is necessary as some computers are thinner than normal PC's and only specialized graphic cards "half height' cards can fit.

 

 

AS tempting a graphic card upgrade might be it might not be the answer for all users / computers. The graphic is only one part of the solution. Upgrade it past efficiency and you will be wasting power. Case in point. Upgrade a older computer with a PCI express 1.0 graphic to a brand new 770 or even a 780ti and you will be running that graphic card as a greatly reduced capacity.

 

A graphic card slot with a PCI express 1.0 running at:

 

x16 will be equivalent to running at x8 on a 2.0 slot and at x4 on a 3.0 slot. Each step up in PCI express capacity doubles the speed and bandwidth, therefore you lose greatly each step up and more and more power is lost as you upgrade a graphic card on an old system. It might  be better to upgrade the entire "core" of the computer. IE. Motherboard, Processor, Ram to more modern standards to be on equal footing as the newer grapic cards.

 

Does that mean you are wasting money? Not exactly. If your computer is 2.0 graphics you are only perhaps loosing a few frames a second with most mid level cards 660ti 670ti or below. (amd equivalents as well). In fact AMD motherboards, which often come cheaper and with combos still have 2.0 graphics for the most part. They still work fine.

 

So what does all this mean.

Investigate not only the upgrade of your graphic card but make sure that you have a nice "fit" of components and not overpowering one aspect and leaving others lacking. It will cause slowdowns of the system as the computer system can only work as fast as its slowest part. (HINT SSDs are a very good boost on most any computer regardless of age.. of course within reason.

 

So what do you do..

Give a spec list or a manufacture's listing of the components including OS and current memory amounts to these fine members. They can then help figure out if the graphics are the best source of upgrading and what to do to bring the rest of the computer up to spec to be able to handle the increased power of the graphics. I have seen many increase one aspect of a computer only to find that they are still lacking in power as the rest of the system tries to keep up ( even have done it myself )

 

[nutluck]

OK a few things you want to go over the required power by about 20%, you don't want your PS running at max all the time. Gives them better life.

 

Second that card won't fit in your computer. If you look here at this link it has a picture of inside of your computer.

http://www.pcworld.com/product/817767/vostro-460.html

 

As you can see in the image the card can only be as long as the motherboard is wide. Where the video card goes it has the HD cage. That computer uses a Mini ATX form mother board. That means that motherboard is 9.6 inches long and wide. That video card you linked is 11 inches long meaning it won't fit.

 

Also even if the video card would fit it is total overkill for your mother board. Your motherboard only has a PCI-express 16 1.0 slot or a PCI-express 3.0 slot. That card calls for a PCI-Express 16 3.0 so the card would be bottle necked by the motherboard anyways.

 

Here is two video cards that will fit and use your PCI-express 3.0 slot. They both should work with a 550w PS.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121714

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125509

 

It also depends on what you budget is too. I did find a couple of cards that would fit that would be upgrades that your current PS would support but they wouldn't be huge upgrades but they would be upgrades.

[gooboo]

I found this list of specifications for the Vostro 460 off another website, is this what you were talking about ritualclarity?

 

Processor type Intel Core i7

 

Processor type Intel Core i7

 

Cache size

8.192 KB

 

Processor count 1

 

Graphics Type Integrated

 

Secondary Graphics Chipset Intel HD Graphics 2000

 

 

Video Bus Integrated

 

Drive size 500.0 GB

 

 

Hard Drive Speed 7200.0 RPM

 

 

Number of PCI-Express x16 slots 1.0

 

Open PCI Express X16 Slots 1.0

 

Number of PCI-Express x1 slots 3.0

 

Open PCI Express X1 Slots 2.0

 

[RitualClarity]

Well the conversation I posted above was about a Dell Vostro 460 mini tower, which is the computer that I have. That particular response was the highest rated on the thread, so I'm assuming the information it had was correct. Here is the link to the whole thread-

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/354801-28-power-supply-upgrade

 

So it sounds like all I realistically need in terms of power to upgrade my graphics card is at least 500 watts, though I still don't know what graphics card to get. I think it's an Intel motherboard, though I'm not sure. 

 

 

OK a few things you want to go over the required power by about 20%, you don't want your PS running at max all the time. Gives them better life.

 

Second that card won't fit in your computer. If you look here at this link it has a picture of inside of your computer.

http://www.pcworld.com/product/817767/vostro-460.html

 

As you can see in the image the card can only be as long as the motherboard is wide. Where the video card goes it has the HD cage. That computer uses a Mini ATX form mother board. That means that motherboard is 9.6 inches long and wide. That video card you linked is 11 inches long meaning it won't fit.

 

Also even if the video card would fit it is total overkill for your mother board. Your motherboard only has a PCI-express 16 1.0 slot or a PCI-express 3.0 slot. That card calls for a PCI-Express 16 3.0 so the card would be bottle necked by the motherboard anyways.

 

Here is two video cards that will fit and use your PCI-express 3.0 slot. They both should work with a 550w PS.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121714

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125509

 

It also depends on what you budget is too. I did find a couple of cards that would fit that would be upgrades that your current PS would support but they wouldn't be huge upgrades but they would be upgrades.

Nutluck has some card that would work however I would also like to add this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487025. it has more cuda cores and only a requirement of 300 watt or better power supply. It is generally more power efficient than the previous generation of nVidia 600 series of cards. I would still upgrade the power supply to a good solid 500 watt power supply say from Corsair, EVGA, or even Thermatake.

 

You will be still bandwith restricted by the 1.0 express slot specs but it would be a massive improvement over the HD200 graphics that is present in Nutluck's link

[gooboo]

Nutluck- thank you for the links and detailed advice. I totally didn't understand what that whole PCI slot business was about. As for my budget, I am willing to buy a new power supply unit and a good graphics card as long as it isn't obsolete by the time the next elder scrolls game comes around lol. 

[RitualClarity]

Power supply could be something like this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139027

Should be short enough to fit in this case and has enough room for upgrades well into the future. (38 amps on the 12 volt rail - what graphics use as well as 2 PCI express power cords one being 6 pin and the other 6+8. What most higher end card are using these days)

 

 

[gooboo]

Ritualclarity, so you think the graphics card link you provided would make Skyrim run better than the ones nutluck provided? I'm still a little hazy on figuring out which ones work best within the confines of the system I currently have. 

[nutluck]

The PS and Video card ritual linked should work for what you need. It would be a big improvement over what you currently have and more importantly it would fit inside your case.

 

@ritual I was staying a bit lower end, mostly cause I am a bit worried about cooling a higher end card in such a tight case. That is not something I am to sure about since I always make sure I get full towers for my PC's.

[nutluck]

Ritualclarity, so you think the graphics card link you provided would make Skyrim run better than the ones nutluck provided? I'm still a little hazy on figuring out which ones work best within the confines of the system I currently have. 

 

The card he linked is a better card, my only concern was cooling in such a small case. That is just something I don't know about, how well a small case like that could cool a video card. So I was erroring a bit on the lower end for that reason.

[RitualClarity]

You are bandwidth restricted as you are using a very old PCI express x16 1.0 graphics. There isn't anything that can be done with that. Nutluck has an excellent option in this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125509 as it has more graphic memory. If the bandwidth don't hurt you then you might consider that one as I am of the understanding that memory is king for Skyim when it comes to EMB mods.

 

The graphic card I linked, the 750ti has another option. The card that Nutluck linked has greater memory which can hold the added textures for EMB mods better from my understanding however has lower Cuda cores. (think of it as number of processors) Also it is more energy efficient. meaning that it can be used with weaker power supplies. Maybe even with the one you currently already have, although I would advise against it. Finally it cost about the same as the one I linked from Nutluck above. It would likely be more enjoyable in playing many other games as the cuda cores can process faster.

 

the choice is yours. If you are wanting to use EMB mods (or whatever that post processing mods are called as I don't use them) for added beauty in the game I would start to focus on Nutlucks selection or something similar with larger ram. (If the bandwidth isn't going to be an issue. I haven't used anything that intensive on my secondary machine which is a more powerful but similar spec system. Better processor and such)

 

@ Nutluck

I know. the cost of the 750 is about the same as the higher priced selection and since it is more energy efficient it should be cooler. But still a good point. Your cooling options on the case are also limited currently so heat might become an issue especially in the summer if you don't have air conditioning. Some of my alien friends have been putting 750tis into the hands of customers for this very purpose.

[RitualClarity]

check out some of the reviews on Newegg. There are lots of comments that this card is quite cool and energy efficient. It fact it is running the new GPU processors from nVidia that will be due out soon. A new change on how power and processing has been used. If I was to build a personal mid range micro unit I would use this card for my selection with a simple i3 or i5 processor, mirco board, 450 to 500 watt power supply and and SSD.

 

 

[nutluck]

Yeah I am not sure where the breaking point would be on the cuda. I run a 660Ti 2gig card and I have no issues running skyrim on max settings with pretty much every graphic mod out there. So the 4gig might be more than he needs but it never hurts to have more Vram.

 

I thought the higher cuda count would make it run hotter, but maybe not. Honestly not sure cause it is just something I have never worried about, as I mentioned i run a full case with a lot of extra fans and a liquid cooled cpu. So heat was never something I ever payed any attention to when choosing a video card.

[RitualClarity]

Cudas do make the card run hotter. The processor on the new 750ti is a new architecture. It is more efficient and therefore less energy wasting and less energy use and waste = less heat.

 

@gooboo

 

Idea of purchase. 

[gooboo]

I don't think the graphics settings I wish to play at are going to be too intensive on the graphics card. The enbs I've tried out are on the lower end of the spectrum, and while the game was choppy as hell it didn't sound like my computer was about to explode. 

[RitualClarity]

I buy and plan for 3 to 5 years of use out of any purchase of that amount. So when I give advise that is what I give. It might be a few dollars more but in the long run a better choice.

 

The 770 ti and power supply would be the cornerstone to a complete gaming rig that you can build in the future and get off that old PCI Express x16 1.0 graphics slot. Just upgrading to a modern motherboard processor and ram would be boost that graphic card to a noticeable amount. Keep in mind however you would also upgrade or change out the case. Cases are cheap and easy to do and now Micro cases are quite good at cooling. At least the equipment you will be using

[gooboo]

This seems like a pretty good setup ritualclarity, I think I might buy it. Thanks to everyone for all of their help, I would have been completely lost if I had to figure this out on my own, lol.