[WIP/Idea/Suggestion Thread] Blackmail/Non-consenting consent

[Guest]

There are a lot of really high quality mods here which I often have a difficult time finding an in-character justification for playing through. Captured Dreams, Angrim's Apprentice, Radiant Prostitution, and the DD-Integration quests come specifically to mind. These quests work great for sexually adventurous or otherwise consenting characters, but generally they have no built-in story elements which would force an unwilling character to ever find them. 

I am going to begin working on a mod which will introduce an organization or entity to blackmail the PC. The set-up will likely be:

1. Anger or make enemies with cultists of some Daedra prince

2. Be tricked or forced into signing some magic contract/equipping some unremovable monitoring device.

3. Afterwards, periodically be told to perform certain tasks, like collection of gold or delivery of items, with progressive penalties for non-compliance imposed by the power of the equipped object or magic contract. (Very likely the penalty would be being forced to wear something from DD).

4. A series of individual compatibility patches, which would allow the radiant task-chooser to choose tasks from the above-mentioned mods (and others).

So for example, at some point you receive a message or vision telling you to learn magic under Angrim. The quest equips you with some incentive to do this, and then unequips the item once you've begun/reached some stage at the Angrim quest. The quest would then remain active until the Angrim quest reached a designated quest stage, and would then complete, allowing the main portion of the mod to assign you another quest at the appropriately chosen interval.

 

Here's my current to-do list:
1. Create placeholder prologue to main quest.
2. Design radiant quest system which assigns random quest from a list every week after the previous was completed.
3. Create proof-of-concept compatibility patch for some mod

If you have ideas or suggestions, particularly technical suggestions about how to do any of this, please post them here. If you own a mod I listed above, or any other mod, and don't want compatibility patches made for it, feel free to PM me. Though I should point out that I won't be making any altered versions of other people's mods, merely creating an optional way to bookend them.

Eventually I want the mod to have a fleshed out main quest, but I want to make sure everything is technically workable before I start writing stories.

[Emberheart]

The idea crossed my mind in a far more simple manner several times. A dwemer collar. When the player character steals from a merchant, they are attacked by thugs and when these thugs are victorious a special dwemer collar is locked around the PC's neck. The collar tightens every day and after 7 days it inconveniently rips the PC's head off their shoulders. Along with the collar comes a letter that explains the function of the collar and mentions that if the PC is to remove it in time, they'll have to search the various dwemer ruins for a key. Ofcourse there are different keys and the use of a wrong key hastens the effect of the collar, the player has to find a key that matches up with the same symbols as on the collar, similar to a nord claw door. The merchant blackmails the PC by offering to disable the timer on the collar, as long as the PC agrees to bend their knee and agrees to submit through servitude. Experienced players may lockpick the collar at risk of reducing the timer with 1 day, or with sufficient favours with the thieves guild, may ask them to remove the collar at the price of a sexual or financial favour.

[Ashra XIII]

I like the basic idea of my character being blackmailed in some way, forcing her to do various things she might not otherwise want to. I'm not at all sure how you'd integrate with other mods, or just how many you'd want to integrate with as they'd become hard dependencies unless you made the mod installer able to detect what mods the player has and only direct her towards them.

 

It'd be pretty great if there was some over-arching story to the mod as well... some end-game that whomever is blackmailing the Dragonborn hopes to achieve through humiliating and debasing her. To go along with that, it'd be cool if there was a quest and dialogue to go along with it... either the blackmailer has some telepathic link with the player through the item that's been forced upon her, or 'minions' occasionally show up to tell her what she needs to do, and probably have a little fun themselves.

 

A pretty grand idea, I hope you can do something with it because this sounds like a mod I'd like to play.

[WaxenFigure]

 

A similar idea already in progress (very slow progress, it's been two years already)

 

http://dark-investigations.blogspot.com/?zx=ed11f664e8ae8ebe

 

Check it out, it might help you with ideas for your mod.

[Regallag the Perv]

I like the Idea of this mod.  The intro quest could be something that, once initiated, can only end with the PC being a servant, willing or otherwise.  Maybe the player can choose between agreeing to serve the daedra (or whomever, maybe in exchange for a promise of power [which was a lie]), signing a contract (the bad guy says it will end all association between the PC and himself but it's actually a servitude agreement [maybe it's written in some magic script]), or fighting (a fight that CANNOT be won and ends with the PC blacking out and getting some kind of control collar put on).  That way the PC will end up in trouble, no matter what.  No matter what the PC's motives are, no matter how bad-ass a fighter she is, she'll end up in a humiliating position.

 

I'm not at all sure how you'd integrate with other mods, or just how many you'd want to integrate with as they'd become hard dependencies unless you made the mod installer able to detect what mods the player has and only direct her towards them.

Maybe it could be done through the MCM?  A check box for each of the mods that it works with, to put them in the "radiant pool".  Edit: unless you were talking about the technical aspect of it, then I got nothing.

[Guest]

I like the basic idea of my character being blackmailed in some way, forcing her to do various things she might not otherwise want to. I'm not at all sure how you'd integrate with other mods, or just how many you'd want to integrate with as they'd become hard dependencies unless you made the mod installer able to detect what mods the player has and only direct her towards them.

 

It'd be pretty great if there was some over-arching story to the mod as well... some end-game that whomever is blackmailing the Dragonborn hopes to achieve through humiliating and debasing her. To go along with that, it'd be cool if there was a quest and dialogue to go along with it... either the blackmailer has some telepathic link with the player through the item that's been forced upon her, or 'minions' occasionally show up to tell her what she needs to do, and probably have a little fun themselves.

 

A pretty grand idea, I hope you can do something with it because this sounds like a mod I'd like to play.

 

The general principle is that if I make each compatibility thing a separate .esp, I can avoid any hard dependencies on mods other than DD and Sexlab. This is in principle possible- you can just add a dialogue line to a quest giving NPC for each plugin. Hopefully there'll be a nicer way to do it as well.

[xboronx]

The mod idea sounds great.

 

Have you considered to use SD+ as starting trigger? Imho this would be a great start for your mod if you let appear one of your NPCs after the PC escaped the first enslavement and is sent back to Skyrim after visiting Sanguines Dreamworld for the first time.

The PC is already in a very sorry state then, perfect timing for an evil NPC to take advantage of while you are just recovering. If you have enough mods like RND, Wear&Tear etc. you have to rest a couple of days after a slavery escape normally to just cure diseases, get rid of the post rape effects ... .

 

 

 

 

 

[Min]

http://www.mediafire.com/view/n6wwbba72rwibp0/A%20Recounting%20of%20Devices%20Most%20Devious.pdf

[drazil]

Maybe something could be done with a partial soul trap, like the one in the dawnguard questline.  The dragonborn is subdued or captured and part of their soul is removed, which is then used to by the organization to control them.  They might weaken the dragonborn the more they try to disobey, or instantly knock out the dragonborn if they try to attack.  The focus would be on stealing the soul gem back from the organization.

[Guest]

The mod idea sounds great.

 

Have you considered to use SD+ as starting trigger? Imho this would be a great start for your mod if you let appear one of your NPCs after the PC escaped the first enslavement and is sent back to Skyrim after visiting Sanguines Dreamworld for the first time.

The PC is already in a very sorry state then, perfect timing for an evil NPC to take advantage of while you are just recovering. If you have enough mods like RND, Wear&Tear etc. you have to rest a couple of days after a slavery escape normally to just cure diseases, get rid of the post rape effects ... .

 

I really like SD+, it might be my favorite mod on this website. But SD+ is extremely script heavy, unstable, and constantly changing. There's almost no chance I will touch anything related to it, I just don't have the expertise.

 

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/n6wwbba72rwibp0/A%20Recounting%20of%20Devices%20Most%20Devious.pdf

 

 

This is usually the storyline I go with, but somehow it doesn't cut it for me. Particularly if I'm playing a character who wouldn't steal. 

 

Of course there are many ways to RP the quests, but part of my purpose is to make something which takes away some of the need to RP.

[Slorm]

I like the idea of this. For those of us that like to roleplay in an immersive way it would make mods like Radiant Prostitution become much more relevant rather than just a way to quickly buy a house in Whiterun

[traveller_phi]

Non-consenting consent is a favorite theme of mine. But I would also like to see it make sense. If you have angered the blackmailer, why do they send you on things that you will eventually profit from, even if it is humiliating? The motivation seems more appropriate for a powerful entity toying with the PC. Not anger, just amusing themselves at the PC's expense. That also opens up the reward side of providing motivation.

 

The initial hook is always the difficult part. I would prefer a scenario that the PC stumbles into, being tricked into agreeing to something before they understand just exactly it was they agreed to. Perhaps losing an open-ended bet in a game of chance, or a night of heavy drinking and waking up to discover they agreed to something the night before.

 

Or for the very pure PC, being put into a situation where a powerful daedra offers them a chance to accept the fate that would otherwise befall an innocent child. They are told the poor child is fated to lead a rough life, one they are ill equipped to deal with. However the daedra (Sanguine?) has the power to shift the burden to the PC, who has the advantages of being older and stronger. The child would be promised a better life, but the PC will be required to voyage down the hard road herself.

 

This has the benefit of giving the PC a noble sacrifice. The antagonist is just in it for amusement, not punishment, so that opens a larger range of fates. And the PC can't really try to fight against the antagonist. If they were to defeat the antagonist, then the child would suffer the bad fate an all the sacrifices they made up until that point would be for naught.

 

This might also open up an avenue for the antagonist to seduce the PC. They are essentially working together to save the child, and if the PC learns to enjoy the abuse...

[Guest]

Right now I'm leaning towards something along the lines of being forced to sign a contract in order to save someone. 

 

I'm also thinking about mechanisms to "force" the PC to eventually complete things. Use of DD equipment in some way is for sure, but I am also considering trying to implement a willpower system. The more abuse the PC suffers, the less able they are to resist. Then there'll be some kind of tradeoff, where actions which lower willpower are beneficial in some other way.

But there are a few ways to implement this:

1. Implementation in terms of quest story (hardcore). Your dialogue choices will be limited by willpower and past a certain point you won't have any non-submissive dialogue options.

2. Implementation in terms of quest story (soft). There'll be some flavor text to suggest what the PC's state of mind is, but ultimately no choices taken away from the player.

3. Implementation through game mechanics. Basically, a reduced will to fight is represented through decreased magicka/health/stamina scores.

What is everyone's preference?

[Slorm]

Non-consenting consent is a favorite theme of mine. But I would also like to see it make sense. If you have angered the blackmailer, why do they send you on things that you will eventually profit from, even if it is humiliating?

 

Yes agreed, any profit should go to the blackmailer

 

[Guest]

 

Non-consenting consent is a favorite theme of mine. But I would also like to see it make sense. If you have angered the blackmailer, why do they send you on things that you will eventually profit from, even if it is humiliating?

 

Yes agreed, any profit should go to the blackmailer

 

 

 

My initial thought on this was that I could somehow "trick" Radiant Prostitution into believing that the player has already slept with a certain number of clients. That way the player will get a bounty if they leave the town without paying the innkeeper, and so the blackmail sort of takes care of itself.

[Slorm]

 

My initial thought on this was that I could somehow "trick" Radiant Prostitution into believing that the player has already slept with a certain number of clients. That way the player will get a bounty if they leave the town without paying the innkeeper, and so the blackmail sort of takes care of itself.

 

 

I had in mind something a little harsher. The blackmailer sets a large figure which the player has to accumulate in a certain amount of time so they are forced into prostitution or other crimes to pay it.

 

Maybe it could also be done through some sort of drug addiction or disease which only the blackmailer can cure or give release which would ensure the player has to rapidly acquire the gold which can only be done through dubious means.

 

To use old D&D terms if you were playing a lawful good character what would force you to take immoral actions to extricate yourself from a situation

 

[traveller_phi]

 

 

My initial thought on this was that I could somehow "trick" Radiant Prostitution into believing that the player has already slept with a certain number of clients. That way the player will get a bounty if they leave the town without paying the innkeeper, and so the blackmail sort of takes care of itself.

 

 

I had in mind something a little harsher. The blackmailer sets a large figure which the player has to accumulate in a certain amount of time so they are forced into prostitution or other crimes to pay it.

 

Maybe it could also be done through some sort of drug addiction or disease which only the blackmailer can cure or give release which would ensure the player has to rapidly acquire the gold which can only be done through dubious means.

 

To use old D&D terms if you were playing a lawful good character what would force you to take immoral actions to extricate yourself from a situation

 

 

 

There are a couple of problems with "need money fast" scenarios. First off, what if the PC already has the money? Hard to balance a money requirement against play styles and levels. Doesn't help to look at what is in the player's inventory. With mods like submit around to steal money, the player is best off keeping any reserves nicely hidden in a chest somewhere. Also what if the player has reconfigured RP to have the madame keep 80% rather than 50%? or shifted the payoffs down so it isn't simply an easy way to get money. Perhaps the player can make money faster killing things than prostitution?

 

That's what I like about the "save an innocent" idea. Fate has decreed that this young girl will be forced into prostitution. The antagonist has the power to bend fate, let the player take the prostitution job and let the young girl find a different fate. Perhaps the PC needs to service 50 clients to ward off the fate from the innocent?

 

This works for almost any mods. The innocent was fated to become Angrim's apprentice. The innocent was fated to stumble upon the secret bookshelf in the Arcaneum. Take a job for the Master of Captured Dreams...

 

Would work well with the willpower idea. The antagonist isn't truely evil, just helping the PC save the innocent ... or multiple innocents. Could lead some nice dialogue options. "You have already debased yourself to save so many. One more fate couldn't hurt you much more, but could crush this fragile, innocent spirit." It is sort of up in the air if these fates were really set in stone, or even just the threat of the antagonist. Is the antagonist threatening to inflict the fate on the innocent if the player doesn't perform, or is he truely helping the player save the innocent lives? or something inbetween. Would not even need to punish the PC until they agree ... its on their head if they don't do their part to save the innocent.

 

Perhaps the willpower idea will be based more on how much the player admits to enjoying the quests they go on. Eventually there are no more innocents, just a "Here is a little task I think you will enjoy" and the player no longer has the willpower to refuse. Twisted through a combination of the experiences and exposure to the antagonist's influence.

 

[xboronx]

 

The mod idea sounds great.

 

Have you considered to use SD+ as starting trigger? Imho this would be a great start for your mod if you let appear one of your NPCs after the PC escaped the first enslavement and is sent back to Skyrim after visiting Sanguines Dreamworld for the first time.

The PC is already in a very sorry state then, perfect timing for an evil NPC to take advantage of while you are just recovering. If you have enough mods like RND, Wear&Tear etc. you have to rest a couple of days after a slavery escape normally to just cure diseases, get rid of the post rape effects ... .

 

I really like SD+, it might be my favorite mod on this website. But SD+ is extremely script heavy, unstable, and constantly changing. There's almost no chance I will touch anything related to it, I just don't have the expertise.

 

 

I love SD+ too. I thought SkyrimLL said there won't be an update for a couple of months, i fully understand the complexness issue.

 

 

 

But there are a few ways to implement this:

 

1. Implementation in terms of quest story (hardcore). Your dialogue choices will be limited by willpower and past a certain point you won't have any non-submissive dialogue options.

 

2. Implementation in terms of quest story (soft). There'll be some flavor text to suggest what the PC's state of mind is, but ultimately no choices taken away from the player.

 

3. Implementation through game mechanics. Basically, a reduced will to fight is represented through decreased magicka/health/stamina scores.

 

What is everyone's preference?

 

I like 2. and 3. most.

 

 

Right now I'm leaning towards something along the lines of being forced to sign a contract in order to save someone. 

 

I'm also thinking about mechanisms to "force" the PC to eventually complete things. Use of DD equipment in some way is for sure, but I am also considering trying to implement a willpower system. The more abuse the PC suffers, the less able they are to resist. Then there'll be some kind of tradeoff, where actions which lower willpower are beneficial in some other way.

 

 

Imho it would be great if there would be a loan system. If you can't pay back the loan eventually the nasty NPC(s) which start your mod main quest come to deal with you.

 

Every merchant or innkeeper could have such a loan dialogue and you can lend money then and see your debt and payback dates in an MCM menu page.

 

Such a loan system would also be most flexible, because only if you roleplay a good character you would probably care about signing a contract to save someone.

 

Then you could also furthermore include 2-3 NPCs for optional miniquests to get the player to take a loan. One NPC is making an offer for bad PCs, he could for example suggest to the PC that they force some poor NPCs to take huge loans and rob and kill them afterwards, thus trying to rip off the loan company. But they will eventually discover and then your quest starts.

Whereas another NPC asks good PCs for help. It might be as suggested in the thread a mother/father who needs a large sum of money to repay a debt to avoid her young son/daugther being sold into slavery/prostitution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[drazil]

I like the idea of the player loosing the will to fight, but I think a damage debuff would work better than one for health.  The more you are broken in, the harder it is to defend yourself effectively until you can barely scratch your enemies.

 

Something on top of the debuff to keep players from fleeing would be good too.  Maybe using magic to teleport the player to them while they sleep or something similar.

 

As for story, I agree that a powerful figure toying with the character sounds good.  There are a few Existing NPCs I could imaging trying something like this, like Erikur or Maven.  Or some other noble who has seen the dragonborn's exploits and wants to show their superiority.

 

Of course, It could also be an organisation who routinely do this to women for their wealthy clientele.  It would make more sense for if the quest is started before you accomplish much in skyrim.

[Guest]

For everyone's knowledge I'm probably gonna keep the stuff gender neutral as much as possible, though my ability to do that will be limited by how easy it is to work with the DD Devices for Males mod. At least the first few versions will probably be female only while I work out how everything works.

I am going to start designing the initial quest tomorrow, and so far here's what I've got in terms of story elements (broad):

1. There will be a person in distress (to motivate a good character)

2. There will be a large reward offered (to motivate greedy characters)

3. There will be some sense that the quest is of importance and would bring the character renown (to motivate the power hungry/ ambitious).

So basically we're looking at the rescue of someone in an important family.

If anyone plays a style or can think of a style which wouldn't work with the above, please let me know, as I do want to keep it as inclusive as possible, although my inclination is to go for good characters.

[Slorm]

If anyone plays a style or can think of a style which wouldn't work with the above, please let me know, as I do want to keep it as inclusive as possible, although my inclination is to go for good characters.

 

From a roleplay point of view I think it would always tend to be geared towards good, neutral or non sleazy evil characters.

 

To use an example if you're roleplaying a prostitute from the start of the game then a bit more doesn't add much. Where this comes into its own is if you were roleplaying a Paladin or even a Thief (who doesn't want to get their hands dirty) then this adds some real impact to the rp experience

 

[Regallag the Perv]

 

1. Implementation in terms of quest story (hardcore). Your dialogue choices will be limited by willpower and past a certain point you won't have any non-submissive dialogue options.

 

2. Implementation in terms of quest story (soft). There'll be some flavor text to suggest what the PC's state of mind is, but ultimately no choices taken away from the player.

 

3. Implementation through game mechanics. Basically, a reduced will to fight is represented through decreased magicka/health/stamina scores.

 

What is everyone's preference?

 

I'd prefer option two, but option one would also work for me.  Three is my least favorite, but if you release this mod using it I'll still download it and try it out.

[Aximili]

I like the idea of a mod with a storyline.

A blackmail mod with a storyline would be great especially if while going through the quests you character begin to give in more and more.

 

It reminds me of a good mod for Oblivion that did just that : http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/271-loversggblackmail/

You could take a look at it if you have oblivion (or go through the quest with TESIVEdit if not). It should give you some good ideas.

 

This mod was also quite good : http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/92-player-slave-encounters-v0691-updated-17-jan-14/

It was composed of multiple short or medium stories around the idea that the player get captured in some way or another and is forced to do things to get back it's freedom.

 

 

As for those : 

 

1. Implementation in terms of quest story (hardcore). Your dialogue choices will be limited by willpower and past a certain point you won't have any non-submissive dialogue options.

 

2. Implementation in terms of quest story (soft). There'll be some flavor text to suggest what the PC's state of mind is, but ultimately no choices taken away from the player.

3. Implementation through game mechanics. Basically, a reduced will to fight is represented through decreased magicka/health/stamina scores.

What is everyone's preference?

 

Personally i'd go with either 1 or 2, i don't like crippling mechanisms such as stat reductions. I much prefer doing the quests when i feel like it and not be crippled because of it, making the rest of the game a nightmare. A mix of options 1 and 2 would be better, as you go through the quests, your willpower decrease thus changing the dialogue options, but you can also add some flavor text as character monologs where the character start by hating her situation, then goes on to realise that she's becoming more and more submissive, until she ends up enjoying whatever she's going through.

[Slorm]

But there are a few ways to implement this:

 

1. Implementation in terms of quest story (hardcore). Your dialogue choices will be limited by willpower and past a certain point you won't have any non-submissive dialogue options.

 

2. Implementation in terms of quest story (soft). There'll be some flavor text to suggest what the PC's state of mind is, but ultimately no choices taken away from the player.

 

3. Implementation through game mechanics. Basically, a reduced will to fight is represented through decreased magicka/health/stamina scores.

 

What is everyone's preference?

 

Personally I prefer 3 or 1 as to me the whole point is the imposition on the player character.

 

If they can just break off when they feel like it and go back later then it breaks (for me) the immersion as there's no real coercion on the character

 

[Regallag the Perv]

Personally i'd go with either 1 or 2, i don't like crippling mechanisms such as stat reductions. I much prefer doing the quests when i feel like it and not be crippled because of it, making the rest of the game a nightmare. A mix of options 1 and 2 would be better, as you go through the quests, your willpower decrease thus changing the dialogue options, but you can also add some flavor text as character monologs where the character start by hating her situation, then goes on to realise that she's becoming more and more submissive, until she ends up enjoying whatever she's going through.

 

Yeah, a combination of 1 and 2 would be great!  There could be a subtitle in parentheses, something like (you find yourself unable to resist your antagonist any longer) then you have some submissive dialog options to chose from.