scroll wheel zoom disable for many animation sequences

[PippinTom]

Could it be that regular scene consist of just actors while scene with animObjects also includes static objects, which for some reason fuckups definition/determination of "scene center" reference?

[traison]

44 minutes ago, PippinTom said:

Could it be that regular scene consist of just actors while scene with animObjects also includes static objects, which for some reason fuckups definition/determination of "scene center" reference?

 

I don't know if we (the modders) have mapped out the hkx file format completely. FNIS uses hkxcmd which is the black window you see flashing while it's generating behaviour files so there it's safe to assume the format hadn't been figured out yet. Pandora contains a dll named HKX2E with no company label so presumably that was made by a 3rd party. It also contains what looks like samples of base behaviour files for all races. My current estimate would thus be that the hkx format is only partially mapped out.

 

That said my current line of thinking is that this could be as simple as some flag field in the hkx not having been mapped out and someone just made the assumption that (as an example) 9 (i.e. bits 1 and 4) is the value you need to use AnimObjects because that's how the base game does it; not realizing that 1 is the AnimObjects enabler and 4 is "DisablePOV".

 

Just guessing here. I don't even know if this bit field exists in hkx files.

 

Edit: I have extracted my first HKX file to some degree. Got 6172 lines of XML to read through so that's gonna take a while.

 

Edit again: Trying to extract the behaviour file HKX (where the problem most likely is) crashes Havok Content Tools so I guess that answers the question whether we're generating standards-compliant files or not.

 

Edit again: Should probably point out that the behaviour HKX file I tried to extract was made with FNIS. You'd think it was standards-compliant because of hkxcmd but I guess not. This is not a Pandora WIP issue, not yet anyways.

Edited August 21 by traison

[badbat111]

13 hours ago, traison said:

 

Was able to replicate here. Very interesting that I haven't stumbled upon this in my soon 15 years of modding Skyrim. Guess I'll have to spin up a virtual machine for hkxcmd and see if I can break one of them animations down to its components.

 

Edit: Looks like @PippinTom is right about it being an issue with AnimObjects. I removed the haybale and stockade from Babo_HorseTraining and the scroll wheel works again.

 

Edit again: Rebuilding with FNIS does not fix it.

 

Edit again: POV switching is also disabled, as in, the F key does not switch between 1st and 3rd person.

 

Edit again: epc 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 does not re-enable POV switching and playidle does not work during a SL scene like I assumed it would.

could the anime objests esp have a setting in creation kit to disable the camera option ?

[traison]

32 minutes ago, badbat111 said:

could the anime objests esp have a setting in creation kit to disable the camera option ?

 

There is nothing in the ANIO record that looks relevant. Only questionmark is the flags field in the record header that had an "Unknown9" bit set according to xEdit. Fairly certain almost all records have this though.

 

In other news, been going through the hkx behaviour files (with AO's comparing to one without AO's) with my hex editor and so far I've not found anything.

 

Quote

I've not failed. I've found 10,000 ways to crash the game. I only need to find one way to make the scroll wheel work.

 - Thomas Edison, maybe.

 

Edit: Thought I'd be clever and see how Pandora does it since it's open source. Figured my way in was AVbHumanoidFootIKDisable which looks like an option similar to -o which I assume marks the animation as having an ANIO. Turns out there's no AVbHumanoidFootIKDisable in Pandora's source code. Makes me wonder where or how its parsing these FNIS lists.

Edited August 21 by traison

[badbat111]

i think it is the hkx files i looked at this file it mentions camera maybe its the hkx files thats causing it ?

 

B_3pACowSpit_A1_S1.hkx

<object id="#0103" type="hkaAnnotationTrack">
<string name="trackName">Camera3rd [Cam3]</string>
</object>
<object id="#0104" type="hkaAnnotationTrack">
<string name="trackName">Camera Control</string>
</object>

 

if it is the hkx files how do i edit them to allow camera zoom ?

Edited August 21 by badbat111

[traison]

19 minutes ago, badbat111 said:

i think it is the hkx files i looked at this file it mentions camera maybe its the hkx files thats causing it ?

 

Doubt it because the SL scene stage hkx files remains unchanged between the working and broken states. Only situation where I'd see this be relevant is if the game engine ignores these camera lines when there's no ANIOs assigned to the animation which seems like a strange setup.

 

Test:

1. Edit FNIS_Babo_Creature_List.txt and remove all ANIOs from the Babo_HorseTraining animation.
2. Run FNIS dev tools to rebuild the FNIS_Babo_Creature_Behavior.hkx file.
3. Run FNIS/Pandora and test in-game.

The issue is in FNIS_Babo_Creature_Behavior.hkx, and this is the file that crashes both the 2010 and 2014 HCTs. That's why I'm going through it with my hex editor. It's not looking good though.

Edited August 21 by traison

[PippinTom]

At least we know that there is an issue and it's not setup specific / blame the user failure.

[traison]

10 minutes ago, PippinTom said:

At least we know that there is an issue and it's not setup specific / blame the user failure.

 

Are we all testing with camera mods like Improved Camera? If someone wants a job, test this issue without camera mods.

[PippinTom]

37 minutes ago, traison said:

 

Are we all testing with camera mods like Improved Camera? If someone wants a job, test this issue without camera mods.

 

I do NOT use Improved Camera (too buggy to my taste), but I use rewritten/forked Customizable Camera in my setup... which is script based, INI forced update/reload sort of mod. All within vanilla features. Don't tell me that this is a culprit, because this will destroy me. Anyway - will test it when have a chance to launch SSE again. Few hours probably.

[badbat111]

its not just se i use le due to my pc cant handle se

[PippinTom]

4 hours ago, traison said:

test this issue without camera mods.

 

Done. Same result.

 

Side profit is funny observation made - when animation loads, scroll does not stop working up until "some" point when it does. What is interesting is that it can be easily reproduced "unlimited" number of times, here are the steps:

1. start animation (method seems irrelevant)
2. start rolling the roll on the mouse back and forth continuously (do not stop even if it stops making any onscreen difference/zoom stops working)
3. hit SL shortcut responsible for "realign actors" (forgot to note exact name, but it's there, by default it's "[" if it's not my custom setting, for those who have trouble finding it on the keyboard - it's pretty close to "]", which in my case binds "relocate scene" functionality)
4. observe exact moment when zoom stops working, then starts working for a brief moment (I guess length depends on machine capabilities) and so on...
5. repeat from step (3). (don't forget to breathe)

 

Edited August 21 by PippinTom
edit: loop closed

[traison]

1 hour ago, PippinTom said:

...funny observation made...

 

For me it stops working the instant the animation restarts after realign. Are you actually seeing the animation start then some perceivable amount of time later the scrolling stops working? As in, if you're testing with the Babo_HorseTraining animation you see the haybale on your screen while the scroll wheel is still working?

[PippinTom]

1 hour ago, traison said:

As in, if you're testing with the Babo_HorseTraining animation you see the haybale on your screen while the scroll wheel is still working?

 

Can't say that - it looks like appearance of hay bale kills the control. and said appearance is noticeably delayed comparing to actors being still present in the world. Another thing is that hay bale appears in some distance, then gets some transformation applied and shifts towards actors, then they are realigned. Interesting to me is that in Billyy (Horse) Hay Doggy such gap when scroll works does not occur at all, nor does transformation of hay bale.

 

edit: Which seems irrelevant on second thought.

Edited August 21 by PippinTom

[badbat111]

2 hours ago, PippinTom said:

 

Can't say that - it looks like appearance of hay bale kills the control. and said appearance is noticeably delayed comparing to actors being still present in the world. Another thing is that hay bale appears in some distance, then gets some transformation applied and shifts towards actors, then they are realigned. Interesting to me is that in Billyy (Horse) Hay Doggy such gap when scroll works does not occur at all, nor does transformation of hay bale.

 

edit: Which seems irrelevant on second thought.

the camera controls disabled for armbinders yokes cuffs as well not just for static objects like hay bales

[PippinTom]

14 hours ago, badbat111 said:

the camera controls disabled for armbinders yokes cuffs as well not just for static objects like hay bales

 

Yeah, hence my original suspicions that any/most non-actor animation objects could be adding something to the scene that breaks the controls in it. Interesting would be to find something that is not breaking them and what is not a dildo of any sort - for those seem to have no impact, for some reason.

 

edit: crossed out wrong assumption based on faded memories

Edited Saturday at 04:57 PM by PippinTom

[traison]

42 minutes ago, PippinTom said:

...a dildo of any sort - for those seem to have no impact, for some reason.

 

From my POV the obvious test to do then is to swap the haybale mesh with the dildo and test Babo_HorseTraining again. If switching the nif fixes the issue then we're wasting our time on hkx files.

[PippinTom]

1 hour ago, traison said:

 

From my POV the obvious test to do then is to swap the haybale mesh with the dildo and test Babo_HorseTraining again. If switching the nif fixes the issue then we're wasting our time on hkx files.

 

Turns out I was completely wrong about dildos being magical (in a way I wished for)... tested bunch of solo anims from various authors with all sort of accessories, sometimes far from dildo per se - all same result - fucked up controls.

 

Edited Saturday at 04:59 PM by PippinTom

[badbat111]

On 8/22/2026 at 5:58 PM, PippinTom said:

 

Turns out I was completely wrong about dildos being magical (in a way I wished for)... tested bunch of solo anims from various authors with all sort of accessories, sometimes far from dildo per se - all same result - fucked up controls.

 

so animeobj is the cause ? if so could the nif in creation kit have something to do with camera option ?

[traison]

34 minutes ago, badbat111 said:

so animeobj is the cause ? if so could the nif in creation kit have something to do with camera option ?

 

That was answered in the post above your question, the one you quoted.

Edited 7 hours ago by traison