So you call Bethesda Bugthesda...

[brown66]

 

[BAB PEEG]

no

[Miauzi]

I watched halfway through the video... and then turned it off.

 

With these five gentlemen's professional attitude, ANY commercial company in industry or construction would go bankrupt in a very short time.

 

But only in the games industry do customers tolerate such absurd behavior... especially since, with "Bugdesta," the buyers themselves have been fixing the bugs for decades... with inadequate "tools" and virtually no documentation, they struggle through these chaotic products.

 

And yes, these five guys are making fun of the customers of their pathetic products with the extended middle finger... may they rot in hell!

[Captain Cobra]

I do call them that and will continue to call them that.  Never watching you're podcast BTW FYI JSYK.

[Omnishade]

On 6/22/2025 at 1:37 PM, Miauzi said:

I watched halfway through the video... and then turned it off.

 

With these five gentlemen's professional attitude, ANY commercial company in industry or construction would go bankrupt in a very short time.

 

But only in the games industry do customers tolerate such absurd behavior... especially since, with "Bugdesta," the buyers themselves have been fixing the bugs for decades... with inadequate "tools" and virtually no documentation, they struggle through these chaotic products.

 

And yes, these five guys are making fun of the customers of their pathetic products with the extended middle finger... may they rot in hell!

 

Games differ from more straight-forward products. For example, a bycicle or a car only has one intended use and then it's easy to predict what the user will do with it. If they decide to throw it or crash with it, that's another story similar to you playing a game in a way the devs did not intend. Games can be so many things and with a big game it's impossible to predict all the outcomes of everything. A car with a malfuntioning door has a very obvious flaw, and since it's quite easy for the manufacturer to make a car without flaws, that's what people expect.

You also have to consider the time inventment vs profit equation. If they have to spend months on fixing all bugs and every other bug fixing them might cause, then we might not have as many good games to play. I agree that they can care a bit more and not use this as an excuse but they have a point when they are talking about it.

[Count Chocula]

Software has bugs because consumers tolerate them. And licensing agreements codify them and prevent consumers from doing anything about them. Software licensing agreements pretty much say "This product is warranted to do absolutely nothing."

 

Which I think was kind of Miauzi's point.

[bofeet]

Going backwards from Starfield, Fallout 4, Skyrim, and Oblivion, Bethesda has claimed 5000+ hours of my life.

They are just my jam. The only game that even comes close in time investment is World of Warcraft. Of which I have about 800 hours in.
 

[brown66]

3 hours ago, bofeet said:

Going backwards from Starfield, Fallout 4, Skyrim, and Oblivion, Bethesda has claimed 5000+ hours of my life.

They are just my jam. The only game that even comes close in time investment is World of Warcraft. Of which I have about 800 hours in.
 

 

Another player in the same situation, with an identical number of hours (I think I'm near 5500 hours).

 

Regarding bugs, yes, there were bugs that Bethesda could and should have fixed. Skyrim is still the classic example of this. But only those who haven't actually played Witcher 3 think that only Bethesda RPGs have bugs. In fact, in that respect, Starfield, after a year of its release, was already quite stable. And even at launch, it had fewer bugs than Skyrim.

 

It's impossible to make games the size of Bethesda or CD Projekt Red RPGs without bugs. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. Sometimes the bug doesn't even result from the game itself, but from mods and/or third-party software, including Microsoft, necessary to play the game. Anyone who uses the Sexlab Framework overloaded with animations knows what I'm talking about.

 

And I even had to throw away many Starfield savegames, possibly representing over 100 hours of gameplay, because of a bug caused by a mod. Initially, I realized that this mod had caused a bug, but I ignored it because it seemed insignificant, until I discovered that I couldn't do NG+. Was this Bethesda's fault? If we consider that this happened because Bethesda allows us to use mods in their RPGs, yes. But who plays Bethesda RPGs for hundreds, if not thousands, of hours because they can use mods? And who forced these players to use mods, when the game's editor warns from the start that they are doing so at their own risk? If using mods requires enduring certain bugs, I say: Long live the bug!

 

One final, very important detail! There are mods that advertise themselves as bug fixes for Bethesda RPGs, usually mods that alter visual aspects, but which in reality are not bug fixes, but simply visual alterations to the game. And, unfortunately, most of the time, they change the visuals to something that is technically worse, much worse! An example of this are the alterations to the night skies in Skyrim and Starfield.

 

[Miauzi]

Vor einer Stunde schrieb brown66:

 

Ein anderer Spieler in der gleichen Situation, mit der gleichen Anzahl an Spielstunden (ich glaube, ich bin bei fast 5500 Stunden).

 

Was Bugs angeht, ja, es gab welche, die Bethesda hätte beheben können und sollen. Skyrim ist dafür immer noch das Paradebeispiel. Aber nur wer Witcher 3 nicht gespielt hat, glaubt, dass nur Bethesda-RPGs Bugs haben. Tatsächlich war Starfield nach einem Jahr schon recht stabil. Und selbst zum Verkaufsstart hatte es weniger Bugs als Skyrim.

 

Es ist unmöglich, Spiele von der Größe der RPGs von Bethesda oder CD Projekt Red fehlerfrei zu entwickeln. Wer etwas anderes behauptet, hat keine Ahnung. Manchmal liegt der Fehler nicht einmal am Spiel selbst, sondern an Mods und/oder Drittanbietersoftware, einschließlich Microsoft-Software, die zum Spielen benötigt wird. Jeder, der das Sexlab Framework mit unzähligen Animationen verwendet, weiß, wovon ich rede.

 

Ich musste sogar etliche Starfield-Spielstände verwerfen, die vermutlich über 100 Stunden Spielzeit repräsentierten, wegen eines Mod-Bugs. Anfangs bemerkte ich zwar den Bug, ignorierte ihn aber, da er mir unbedeutend erschien, bis ich feststellte, dass ich NG+ nicht mehr spielen konnte. War das Bethesdas Schuld? Wenn man bedenkt, dass Bethesda die Verwendung von Mods in ihren RPGs erlaubt, ja. Aber wer spielt schon Hunderte, wenn nicht Tausende von Stunden in Bethesda-RPGs, nur weil man Mods nutzen kann? Und wer zwingt diese Spieler dazu, Mods zu verwenden, wenn der Editor des Spiels von Anfang an warnt, dass dies auf eigenes Risiko geschieht? Wenn die Verwendung von Mods bedeutet, gewisse Bugs in Kauf zu nehmen, sage ich: Hoch lebe der Bug!

 

Ein letzter, sehr wichtiger Punkt! Es gibt Mods, die als Bugfixes für Bethesda-RPGs beworben werden – meist Mods, die visuelle Aspekte verändern –, die aber in Wirklichkeit keine Bugs beheben, sondern lediglich die Grafik des Spiels verändern. Und leider wird die Grafik dadurch in den meisten Fällen technisch deutlich verschlechtert! Ein Beispiel dafür sind die Änderungen am Nachthimmel in Skyrim und Starfield.

 

 

And again and again, the "straw man argument" – other game studios make mistakes too, and there are bugs in their games.

 

This only serves to distract from something far more fundamental: Bugdesta itself doesn't fix a single one of its own bugs – instead, the game's users do this work free of charge and make these fixes available to other users at no cost.

Product support is the responsibility of the manufacturer (Bugdesta), not the product's customer!

[DocClox]

22 hours ago, Miauzi said:

Bugdesta itself doesn't fix a single one of its own bugs

 

Ridiculous. Remember the backwards flying dragons in Skyrim? Modders didn't fix that.

 

Most Bethesda updates come with a long list of things fixed. They just don't always fix the things we think they should fix.