Bethesda follows the path of CD Projeckt RED

[mircislav]

2 hours ago, modder focker said:

as Starfield lol

Yes, sadly, it's LOL.

[Mr. Otaku]

15 hours ago, modder focker said:

People these days forget how much people hated Skyrim on launch lol. Look at some of the takes on reddit and other forums regarding the Skyrim launch and its the exact same shit as Starfield lol

 

Wasn't Skyrim rated as one of the few games that delivered on the massive hype? I was too young to follow gaming news when Skyrim came out when i look up reviews from that time period it all look really positive. Famitsu giving it a 10/10 score was also pretty big deal apparently cause only few games ever got it. I'm sure the Morrowboomers and Oblivitards were throwing up a stink just like they do now cause Skyrim was too different and "dumbed down" from previous games but still most of the reception was really positive and people in general thought the bugs were hilarious rather than deal breakers and it was also just as memeable as Oblivion which also helped. Starfield is getting absolutely wrecked everywhere and the only other game in Bethesda's lineup that got comparable (actually more) hatred is 76. I don't think this is even remotely similar to Skyrim.

 

But i'm sure perception will shift over the coming years if Bethesda releases some banger dlcs and really in depth mod tools. I hope Bethesda takes shit seriously now. And someone get Emil outta there that mf is washed fr.

[Wolfstorm321]

I hope Bugthesda releases 20 more updates to Skyrim until all mods are broken, except the Unofficial Patch by Arthmoor, forcing all the dumb lemmings in Reddit to only use this one. 

 

Please do it, Toddler. 

[brown66]

On 1/22/2024 at 11:20 AM, Mr. Otaku said:

 

Wasn't Skyrim rated as one of the few games that delivered on the massive hype? I was too young to follow gaming news when Skyrim came out when i look up reviews from that time period it all look really positive. Famitsu giving it a 10/10 score was also pretty big deal apparently cause only few games ever got it. I'm sure the Morrowboomers and Oblivitards were throwing up a stink just like they do now cause Skyrim was too different and "dumbed down" from previous games but still most of the reception was really positive and people in general thought the bugs were hilarious rather than deal breakers and it was also just as memeable as Oblivion which also helped. Starfield is getting absolutely wrecked everywhere and the only other game in Bethesda's lineup that got comparable (actually more) hatred is 76. I don't think this is even remotely similar to Skyrim.

 

But i'm sure perception will shift over the coming years if Bethesda releases some banger dlcs and really in depth mod tools. I hope Bethesda takes shit seriously now. And someone get Emil outta there that mf is washed fr.

 

 

Thank you for having the honesty to acknowledge that you were quite young when Skyrim came out. Unfortunately, most Starfield haters avoid mentioning this.

The current hatred for Starfield has its roots in the mega-success that was the launch of Skyrim. As already mentioned here, some hated Skyrim when it was released in 2011.

Some of these haters were existing Bethesda haters, who felt great frustration that the publishers of their favorite games didn't allow mods like Bethesda did. Other haters were some Oblivion players, who were furious when they realized that Skyrim was a bit different from its predecessor. And I'm glad it was different because it corrected many aspects of Oblivion that were less good (one of them was the persuasion system, which worked based on luck). Other haters were those who discovered that their computer was too weak to play this game, which was, at the time, as heavy or heavier than Starfield. For a long time, Skyrim was used in CPU benchmarks, as it is a game that is very heavy on draw calls, just as Starfield is now (although this already has some optimization, which is bad news because it will make it difficult to create some mods, as we will see when the Creation Kit comes out).

But despite this hatred, it did not grow because YouTube was still new, and hate phenomena were still incipient. And the wave of adulation for Skyrim has overwhelmed and forgotten those criticisms of this game. But the seeds of hate remained planted and dormant.

And these seeds emerged when Fallout 4 was released. I remember well the wave of hate that arose for this game and that affected its sales after the first few days. Fallout 4 ended up recovering from this wave of hate, and today there are people even more fanatical about this game than there are about Skyrim. And I know what I'm talking about because I'm a Skyrim fanatic.

Then there was Fallout 76, with its many mistakes. Hatred for Bethesda rose to the heavens. From then on, it was already known that many people were expecting Starfield to be a fiasco. The haters for Bethesda never disappeared. They just grew little by little and increased exponentially when Microsoft bought Bethesda, to prevent Sony from doing it.

From the moment PlayStation fans realized that Starfield being a PC and Xbox exclusive was not a nightmare they would wake up from, but rather the harsh reality of the business world, hatred for Bethesda and Starfield exploded. And this hatred grew even more when many people with weaker computers realized that they wouldn't be able to play this game at 60 FPS, and often not even at 30!

I talk about this in more detail in a video here (https://youtu.be/eXl1EHqtciM). It's a 50-minute video, but it takes a historical look back at several RPG games from 2011, some from Bethesda and others from CD Projekt Red, and I talk about why the waves of hate were emerging and how they were getting bigger and bigger.

Oh, and I also talk about how the current waves of hate on YouTube and Reedit are growing and maintaining. It's especially this part of the video that a lot of haters... hate.

Edited January 28 by brown66

[modder focker]

On 1/22/2024 at 6:20 AM, Mr. Otaku said:

 

Wasn't Skyrim rated as one of the few games that delivered on the massive hype? I was too young to follow gaming news when Skyrim came out when i look up reviews from that time period it all look really positive. Famitsu giving it a 10/10 score was also pretty big deal apparently cause only few games ever got it. I'm sure the Morrowboomers and Oblivitards were throwing up a stink just like they do now cause Skyrim was too different and "dumbed down" from previous games but still most of the reception was really positive and people in general thought the bugs were hilarious rather than deal breakers and it was also just as memeable as Oblivion which also helped. Starfield is getting absolutely wrecked everywhere and the only other game in Bethesda's lineup that got comparable (actually more) hatred is 76. I don't think this is even remotely similar to Skyrim.

 

But i'm sure perception will shift over the coming years if Bethesda releases some banger dlcs and really in depth mod tools. I hope Bethesda takes shit seriously now. And someone get Emil outta there that mf is washed fr.

People in gaming forums online were saying Bethesda ruined TES and the game was a flop, shit writing, boring gameplay, etc. Of course today, all people remember is the greatness of modded Skyrim and they expect vanilla Starfield on launch to be as good as that which it never was gonna be. A lot of complaints were the exact same as the complaints on Skyrim (bad story writing/boring gameplay) but 13 years after release Skyrim is still going strong

[DocClox]

A lot of the criticism Skyrim drew on release was justified. It was horribly dumbed down compared to Oblivion and Morrowind, both in terms of lore and UI. On the other hand, it had a gameplay loop that was so much fun that most people didn't care much. I love Skyrim, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to its shortcomings.

 

Fallout 4 had more serious issues. The attempt to reposition the game as a more story-oriented offering was questionable, and doing so at the expense of a lot of the role-playing support from previous games wound up alienating quite a lot of of the Bethesda faithful. And then of course, Fallout 76 doubled down on that, and doubled it again.

 

Really, a lot of the current Starfield angst is crows coming home to roost after the drama around recent Fallout offerings. A lot of one-time Bethesda faithful are looking at the game through the lens of bitter Fallout 76 resentment and thereby seeing only the worst in everything. And that's a shame, because I honestly think that a lot of Starfield's design was a reaction to the discontent over Fallout 4 and 76, and a lot of the more vocal critics might, if they could only stop, and look at the game with fresh eyes, surprise themselves in how much they find to love in the game.

 

And it's going to happen. The trolls and the brigades are already moving on to new targets, and news sites are starting to publish, if not positive reviews, at least fun things  you can do in the game..

 

It's a good game. Quality will tell in the long run.

Edited January 31 by DocClox

[Mr. Otaku]

On 1/28/2024 at 10:13 PM, brown66 said:

 

 

Thank you for having the honesty to acknowledge that you were quite young when Skyrim came out. Unfortunately, most Starfield haters avoid mentioning this.

The current hatred for Starfield has its roots in the mega-success that was the launch of Skyrim. As already mentioned here, some hated Skyrim when it was released in 2011.

Some of these haters were existing Bethesda haters, who felt great frustration that the publishers of their favorite games didn't allow mods like Bethesda did. Other haters were some Oblivion players, who were furious when they realized that Skyrim was a bit different from its predecessor. And I'm glad it was different because it corrected many aspects of Oblivion that were less good (one of them was the persuasion system, which worked based on luck). Other haters were those who discovered that their computer was too weak to play this game, which was, at the time, as heavy or heavier than Starfield. For a long time, Skyrim was used in CPU benchmarks, as it is a game that is very heavy on draw calls, just as Starfield is now (although this already has some optimization, which is bad news because it will make it difficult to create some mods, as we will see when the Creation Kit comes out).

But despite this hatred, it did not grow because YouTube was still new, and hate phenomena were still incipient. And the wave of adulation for Skyrim has overwhelmed and forgotten those criticisms of this game. But the seeds of hate remained planted and dormant.

And these seeds emerged when Fallout 4 was released. I remember well the wave of hate that arose for this game and that affected its sales after the first few days. Fallout 4 ended up recovering from this wave of hate, and today there are people even more fanatical about this game than there are about Skyrim. And I know what I'm talking about because I'm a Skyrim fanatic.

Then there was Fallout 76, with its many mistakes. Hatred for Bethesda rose to the heavens. From then on, it was already known that many people were expecting Starfield to be a fiasco. The haters for Bethesda never disappeared. They just grew little by little and increased exponentially when Microsoft bought Bethesda, to prevent Sony from doing it.

From the moment PlayStation fans realized that Starfield being a PC and Xbox exclusive was not a nightmare they would wake up from, but rather the harsh reality of the business world, hatred for Bethesda and Starfield exploded. And this hatred grew even more when many people with weaker computers realized that they wouldn't be able to play this game at 60 FPS, and often not even at 30!

I talk about this in more detail in a video here (https://youtu.be/eXl1EHqtciM). It's a 50-minute video, but it takes a historical look back at several RPG games from 2011, some from Bethesda and others from CD Projekt Red, and I talk about why the waves of hate were emerging and how they were getting bigger and bigger.

Oh, and I also talk about how the current waves of hate on YouTube and Reedit are growing and maintaining. It's especially this part of the video that a lot of haters... hate.

 

I don't disagree overall. Expectations have changed a lot in the past 10-15 years in regards to what counts as "triple A quality game" and Starfield just fell short in some particular ways that really skewed perception. The release window also threw a massive wrench into the whole thing. People collectively have the memory of a goldfish so they all forgot that Cyberpunk despite all these updates is barely half the game it was promised to be. There's complaining about legit problems in the game and there's acting like it's literally the worst thing ever and there are too many hysterical retards that can't tell the difference. Everything is either goat or mid which is synonymous with trash. No in between.

 

On 1/29/2024 at 6:41 AM, modder focker said:

People in gaming forums online were saying Bethesda ruined TES and the game was a flop, shit writing, boring gameplay, etc. Of course today, all people remember is the greatness of modded Skyrim and they expect vanilla Starfield on launch to be as good as that which it never was gonna be. A lot of complaints were the exact same as the complaints on Skyrim (bad story writing/boring gameplay) but 13 years after release Skyrim is still going strong

 

Yeah i see what you mean. It'll be interesting to see what Starfield is like 13 years later. If people in 2011 knew what Skyrim would look like today they'd have lost their minds fr.

[Gameplayer]

I think the game is such trash, it leans hard into sexual labels and pronouns.

 

But, I think I know what will save Starfield at least for modding.

 

Double Down even harder into the sexuality of the game.  Black Latex outfits everywhere.

Extra voice lines est lishing the sexual herearchy of the NPC and player.

Dom sub switch

Riding crops 

And 

Loads of bondage gear.

 

Game was clearly made for this

[nIn nIn nIn]

leans hard into sexual labels and pronouns.

 

The fuck you talking about? Pronouns is literally ONLY in the character generation screen, and defaults to the selected body type anyway. You have to make an effort to change it to anything else. As for sexual labels ??? Beth games has ALWAYS been player-sexual. You have ALWAYS been able to romance the romanceable NPC's regardless of your selected in game gender.

Take your hate and shove it. Really. This is not the place for LGBTQI-phobics.

[Guest]

I feel like when I play any TES or Fallout game, I'm playing a game that modders made not bethesda.

Vanilla is too boring. I don't want to be just another beth hater because I don't hate them, but at the same time I don't see any point in spending money on something that I don't think I'll enjoy. Idk about starfield and chances of buying it are slim to none. I've read that some well known modders help develope starfield. The idea of spaceship crafting and management does sound cool not gonna lie. Just to be clear, this is my opinion.

 

[Gameplayer]

20 hours ago, nIn nIn nIn said:

leans hard into sexual labels and pronouns.

 

The fuck you talking about? Pronouns is literally ONLY in the character generation screen, and defaults to the selected body type anyway. You have to make an effort to change it to anything else. As for sexual labels ??? Beth games has ALWAYS been player-sexual. You have ALWAYS been able to romance the romanceable NPC's regardless of your selected in game gender.

Take your hate and shove it. Really. This is not the place for LGBTQI-phobics.

 

If that's what you read there,

Pretty sure you dont understand BDSM.

 

Mass Effect, Dragons Age Origins, KOTOR, I can list more.

All have strong usage of "inclusion" and "diversity", and these all did it better without insulting players.

These did not have to come right out and rely on a label to make up for poor story writing.

That is such a weak move of todays authors, when authors just 10 to 25 years ago can just run circles around them.

 

I'm just saying, I'm going to dress all my NPC quest givers in Black Latex, so that their dommy attitude can actually make sense.

 

Eh, Im just going to go play some more Baldurs Gate 3.

Edited February 6 by Gameplayer

[nIn nIn nIn]

3 hours ago, Gameplayer said:

 

If that's what you read there,

Pretty sure you dont understand BDSM.

 

Mass Effect, Dragons Age Origins, KOTOR, I can list more.

All have strong usage of "inclusion" and "diversity", and these all did it better without insulting players.

These did not have to come right out and rely on a label to make up for poor story writing.

That is such a weak move of todays authors, when authors just 10 to 25 years ago can just run circles around them.

 

I'm just saying, I'm going to dress all my NPC quest givers in Black Latex, so that their dommy attitude can actually make sense.

 

Eh, Im just going to go play some more Baldurs Gate 3.

 

Did I stutter? I did NOT quote your BDSM part. Did I? I specifically quoted and responded to your PRONOUNS comment. So lame, ignoring the point of my post completely. 

 

[Gameplayer]

58 minutes ago, nIn nIn nIn said:

 

Did I stutter? I did NOT quote your BDSM part. Did I? I specifically quoted and responded to your PRONOUNS comment. So lame, ignoring the point of my post completely. 

 

 

"leans hard into sexual labels and pronouns."

 

Haha, I work on assets for Bondage and Black Latex.

Only Pronouns I recognize are Dom and Sub.

What do you expect?

Do you know what part of the internet you are in?

 

[nIn nIn nIn]

10 hours ago, Gameplayer said:

 

"leans hard into sexual labels and pronouns."

 

Haha, I work on assets for Bondage and Black Latex.

Only Pronouns I recognize are Dom and Sub.

What do you expect?

Do you know what part of the internet you are in?

 

 

Your exact comment is "I think the game is such trash, it leans hard into sexual labels and pronouns."

What does part of the internet have to do with anything. You leaned into the pronoun bros hatred theme - which is why I bit back with the phobics comment. No amount of deflection will change why I retorted back at you.

Starfield is inclusive, like it or lump it. This website likewise is inclusive. 

[Gameplayer]

32 minutes ago, nIn nIn nIn said:

 

Your exact comment is "I think the game is such trash, it leans hard into sexual labels and pronouns."

What does part of the internet have to do with anything. You leaned into the pronoun bros hatred theme - which is why I bit back with the phobics comment. No amount of deflection will change why I retorted back at you.

Starfield is inclusive, like it or lump it. This website likewise is inclusive. 

Not sure what you are getting at here darling,

 

I think you are the one name calling and grasping at straws, like a switch that thinks they are a Dom but really needs to be properly broken in so they can be the sub they were always destined to be.

[nIn nIn nIn]

8 hours ago, Gameplayer said:

Not sure what you are getting at here darling,

 

I think you are the one name calling and grasping at straws, like a switch that thinks they are a Dom but really needs to be properly broken in so they can be the sub they were always destined to be.

 

Don't play dumb - you said those words.

There is an ongoing concerted effort being made by homophobes and transphobes to denigrate the game and community members for including optional pronouns and optional same sex relationships in the game. You used the exact same words - and I am quoting those words that YOU used. It is a direct attack against non-binary, trans-gender and other LGBTQI community members. I will not stand by and ignore this. 

I do not care about your proclivities, you do you, but do not harm other members of our inclusive community here. Own your words.

[Gameplayer]

1 hour ago, nIn nIn nIn said:

 

Don't play dumb - you said those words.

There is an ongoing concerted effort being made by homophobes and transphobes to denigrate the game and community members for including optional pronouns and optional same sex relationships in the game. You used the exact same words - and I am quoting those words that YOU used. It is a direct attack against non-binary, trans-gender and other LGBTQI community members. I will not stand by and ignore this. 

I do not care about your proclivities, you do you, but do not harm other members of our inclusive community here. Own your words.

 

Nin,

As fun as all this has been, as I understand it your pursuing me for some other motive.  Therefore I would like you to respect my decision to end whatever sort of relationship this is.

An I did review the rules for this website, https://www.loverslab.com/topic/292-rules/

 

 

I would quote but as you have already trampled over so many rules, I have no doubt upon reading my post you would insert something that I have not written or intended.

 

Therefore, I simply ask you to leave me alone.

 

Thankyou sincerely,

a pervert content creator at a pervert mod website.

 

[nIn nIn nIn]

I have absolutely no problem with ignoring you from now on. 

[Mr. Otaku]

On 2/7/2024 at 7:06 AM, Gameplayer said:

Haha, I work on assets for Bondage and Black Latex.

Only Pronouns I recognize are Dom and Sub.

What do you expect?

Do you know what part of the internet you are in?

 

Bruh nIn was responding to what you said here initially: 

On 2/5/2024 at 9:54 PM, Gameplayer said:

I think the game is such trash, it leans hard into sexual labels and pronouns.

This states that you think the game sucks because they added a pronouns selector to the game, nIn called you out on that cause that's an extremely silly conclusion and in response you're literally doing the "well i'm an attack helicopter" meme. No one thinks "sub and dom" are actual pronouns, and i'm kinda surprised you couldn't think of a better deflection.

[CaptainSmash]

Can we stop with this pronoun bullshit as it has zero to nothing to do with the topic of this thread "Bethesda follows the path of CD Projeckt RED". Please create a new topic for this shit elsewhere.

Edited February 8 by CaptainSmash

[Wolfstorm321]

On 2/6/2024 at 5:12 PM, Gameplayer said:

 

If that's what you read there,

Pretty sure you dont understand BDSM.

 

Mass Effect, Dragons Age Origins, KOTOR, I can list more.

All have strong usage of "inclusion" and "diversity", and these all did it better without insulting players.

These did not have to come right out and rely on a label to make up for poor story writing.

That is such a weak move of todays authors, when authors just 10 to 25 years ago can just run circles around them.

 

I'm just saying, I'm going to dress all my NPC quest givers in Black Latex, so that their dommy attitude can actually make sense.

 

Eh, Im just going to go play some more Baldurs Gate 3.

 

 

I remember Mass Effect had a gay romance in it, but it never bothered me. 

In fact, gay stuff don't bother me, as long as it is not forced on the player. 

 

People used this polemic about pronouns in order to not talk about the elephant in the room: the graphics. 

Never I saw such ugly graphics in a sci-fi game. The color palette is atrocious. 

 

The first ME have better graphics than Starfield. And it had a gay character. 

So no, the problem is not the gay. It is the graphics.

Lack of contrast (all blacks are grey) and the forced WEF yellow/purple filters. 

But no one want to talk about it, because muh progress, muh science. 

 

People don't want beautiful games these days. They don't want good level design.

They want Toddler the Howard's potatoes. 

Edited February 9 by Wolfstorm321

[Gameplayer]

1 hour ago, Wolfstorm321 said:

 

 

I remember Mass Effect had a gay romance in it, but it never bothered me. 

In fact, gay stuff don't bother me, as long as it is not forced on the player. 

 

People used this polemic about pronouns in order to not talk about the elephant in the room: the graphics. 

Never I saw such ugly graphics in a sci-fi game. The color palette is atrocious. 

 

The first ME have better graphics than Starfield. And it had a gay character. 

So no, the problem is not the gay. It is the graphics.

Lack of contrast (all blacks are grey) and the forced WEF yellow/purple filters. 

But no one want to talk about it, because muh progress, muh science. 

 

People don't want beautiful games these days. They don't want good level design.

They want Toddler the Howard's potatoes. 

 

I remember how wild it was when Mass Effect came out, and I played through all the romances as both male and female shepard.

I should have stopped for a minute and realized that in all likelyhood there are in fact people that come to the forums that have no idea or reference about any of the games that I mentioned or that it is completely possible to have gay, lesbian, trans characters that are entirely lovable that themselves never once stood on their label or expected anyone to care about them because of their sexuality but earned that love and respect the hard way.  However, Mass Effect 1 was 2001, Mass Effect 3 ~2007?  I guess Dragons Age Origins was 2002 and even the third game was 2012.  So right here we are in 2024, well whats some kid know about games from 20 years ago?  An well with todays games market being so super saturated perhaps not a lot of people have actually played Cyberpunk 2077 or Baldurs Gate 3?

 

Cyberpunk 2077 is one of my current favorite games and I really think its done right way, since the player can become invested in the characters well before we learn anything about a "label".  One of my favorite examples of this is of course Claire, I even wrote an entire essay post here on LoversLab about her and how interesting it is that we become really invested in her before learning about her transition.  Kerry is awesome and its even better having Johnny in your head with the commentary.  I do appreciate that CD Project Red stuck to their guns about having each non-player character not be both ways, reminds me of Mass Effect Series and gave me another reason to give the game another playthrough.

 

Hmm, Mass Effect 1 having better graphics than Starfield?  Uh maybe with the Legendary Edition of Mass Effect, which if I recall correctly there was a major mod pack for it and it was impressive.  I think Mass Effect Andromeda is nearly on par and in some cases better than Starfield in the graphics presentation department at times its story presentation is way better although about the time I got to the Krogan Colony well the story started to crawl and fall apart a bit.

 

"People don't want beautiful games these days. They don't want good level design.

They want Toddler the Howard's potatoes. "

 

Sigh,

Level Design

Story Design

 

Just Starfields writing does not endear me to any of the characters.

Contrast that against games in space ok, Science Fiction writing from 10-25 years ago.

We dont even have to go that far back because we have Cyberpunk 2077 ~2020? 

We do have Baldurs Gate 3, but I suppose its not everyones cup of tea to play DND.

[DocClox]

Honestly, I could care less about the pronouns thing. I mean that, and the "body type one/two" nonsense strike me more as a cheap gimmick than anything substantial ... but then I have to acknowledge that I'm not part of the target audience for this feature. It doesn't hurt me, and if it helps some people more fully identify with their character then I can only see that as a good thing.

 

What does mildly annoy me is that just about every female in the game dresses like a sack of potatoes and has about as much sex appeal. I don't expect nudity or blatant smut, but the occasional curve would have been welcome.

[RohZima]

I think beth will resurrect Starfield but it'll take a long time. Maybe by q4 2025 it'll start to take shape?

 

It's going to be hard to win back support because clearly they have really repelled a lot of people. The problem must be deeper than it's technical/design flaws.

 

Thankfully we got a silent protagonist so potentially a lot of stuff can be re-written if someone can be bothered. NPC's and factions can be overhauled to be more agreeable.

 

Then, even later, there may be a few things the modding scene produce for Starfield that really raise the bar technically for modding - and that's when the great exodus from Skyrim to Starfield will begin. That's a lot of pieces to fall into place though.

[Wolfstorm321]

13 hours ago, Gameplayer said:

However, Mass Effect 1 was 2001, Mass Effect 3 ~2007?  I guess Dragons Age Origins was 2002 and even the third game was 2012. 

 

 

The first Mass Effect is from 2007, same year of Crysis and Tiberium Wars. 

And yes, the graphics got old, but... you can just throw a Reshade into it and it will be better than many modern games. 

But your point about the zoomers is valid. The zoomers didn't catch this era, so for them games with cellphone graphics and zero contrast are a blast. 

Edited February 9 by Wolfstorm321