Bethesda follows the path of CD Projeckt RED

[Kraven12]

Take the article with a grain of salt as at the time of this I could not find anything to back this up. 

 

https://exputer.com/exputer/bethesda-modders-focus-starfield-not-skyrim/

 

Here is my take:

 

1) Release creation club

 

2) Stop screwing with Skyrim Bethesda, and trying to cash in with paid mods. 

[Pamatronic]

3 hours ago, Kraven12 said:

Take the article with a grain of salt as at the time of this I could not find anything to back this up.

Because its braindead nonsense. The latest update did double the esl limit on skyrim, so you can cram in even more mods. weird move if you wanted modders to go away from skyrim.

[mircislav]

The question is why would ousnius, ashal and other mayor modders help Betshesda to fill their (and uncle Gates) pockets without any compensation for their efforts to save the game from current sate? Looks to me like Betshesda intentionally released half brained game just to see how far they can screw the gaming world - something like what uncle Gates did with the latest epidemic...

[DocClox]

8 hours ago, mircislav said:

The question is why would ousnius, ashal and other mayor modders help Betshesda to fill their (and uncle Gates) pockets without any compensation for their efforts 

 

Well, I may not be in the same league as some, but I tend to look at it from the opposite direction.

 

See, I'm a professional programmer. I do what I do for a bit of fun. And that's cool. But if Bethesda decide they want to force me to sell my work so they can tax my efforts ... well, if they want me to do freelance work for them, they can damn well pay me my hourly professional rate. 

 

I don't  mind using my skills for a bit of unpaid fun, (and incidentally giving a little something back to a community that's already given us all so much). But I'll be buggered before I let them coerce me into taking a second job for chump change, just so they can add a fraction of a percentage point to their annual profits. And  I promise  you - the day they try and force me to do this for pay will be the day I turn my back on this scene and start looking at indie gamesdev projects again.

 

And I can't speak for Ashal or Ousnius, but with the exception of a few high profile modders that got sweetheart deals, anyone who has any sort of talent would be well advised to do the same.

Edited December 18, 2023 by DocClox

[ItsMeStackEm]

Thanks for your great contributions here, Doc Clox (and everyone else).  Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to everyone.  Let's hope for some amazing things in 2024.

[FauxFurry]

That statement starts with an assumption about CD Projekt Red that is not really backed up by reality. They are not hostile towards modding though their modding tool sets are lackluster compared to what BSW has provided since the Construction Set. 

It is one thing to be disappointed at how Starfield turned out but it is another entirely to catastrophize or engage in doomsaying over what is at worst ignorance of the issues that modders creating scripted content face (which is no different than customers being unconcerned with what goes into turning out a product when the end result is all that matters on their side of the equation).

[DocClox]

It's easy to forget how utterly batshit insane it was for Bethesda to release the Construction Set with Morrowind back in the day. "Hey, why don't we give away all our development tools with the game. For free. So that any one can write content that competes with us".

 

That must have been an interesting meeting.

 

And it turned out to be a really good idea. But we shouldn't be too surprised when other companies are reluctant to follow suit. " that's all well and good Morrie, but do we need to give away the store?  How about we just let them change a few textures?"

 

 

[Kraven12]

On 12/24/2023 at 7:49 AM, FauxFurry said:

That statement starts with an assumption about CD Projekt Red that is not really backed up by reality. They are not hostile towards modding though their modding tool sets are lackluster compared to what BSW has provided since the Construction Set. 

 

 

Gonna be honest, I do not or was not intending this to a "jab" at either company but news that can be compared by the paths taken by both companies. And it just that news. That is my testbed by using the forums rather than start a channel on YouTube prematurely by gaging reactions to see how tough my mental skin is. So if I come off in anything I write that was misinterpreted or misleading, sorry still new at this. 

[dlr291185]

On 12/18/2023 at 5:58 AM, Kraven12 said:

Take the article with a grain of salt as at the time of this I could not find anything to back this up. 

 

https://exputer.com/exputer/bethesda-modders-focus-starfield-not-skyrim/

 

Here is my take:

 

1) Release creation club

 

2) Stop screwing with Skyrim Bethesda, and trying to cash in with paid mods. 

I object. CD projekt red did an awful thing with who knows how much fucked pressure from overlords if they didn't and spent 3 years fixing it fully. Prior stellar #1 rep.

 

Bethesda is a shit company full of evil people who lucked out with skyrim modding and will destroy themselves with a mix of greed and average games (seriously take mods from all their games and they have nothing and are getting worse -- you guys MADE them. Now they'll try to screw you and die. Good riddance. 

[dlr291185]

CD Projekt does it again, yeah, they're dead and they know it. But surely 1 fuck up with outside influence that you work to fix and never ever repeat etc. must be allowed to redemption else what.....mess up and shut down cos no point?

 

[dlr291185]

1 minute ago, dlr291185 said:

I object. CD projekt red did an awful thing with who knows how much fucked pressure from overlords if they didn't and spent 3 years fixing it fully. Prior stellar #1 rep.

 

Bethesda is a shit company full of evil people who lucked out with skyrim modding and will destroy themselves with a mix of greed and average games (seriously take mods from all their games and they have nothing and are getting worse -- you guys MADE them. Now they'll try to screw you and die. Good riddance. 

Seriously 2011 to 2024: Skyrim (AMAZING FOR MODS AN ALL TIMER. meh game otherwise). Fallout 4: Bad game. Good(?) with mods. Fallout 76: Scam evil liars. Starfield: Truthfully a poor game I'm sorry. Modders (apparently you tell me) not been kept in mind so harder to mod than skyrim etc? If modding dies startfield dies. 

 

Disagree r.e. starfield? look at steam charts and compare it to some other games similar time from peak to now (hint: phantom liberty lower peak, 5x now) 

[dlr291185]

For the record I know nothing about what makes it easy or hard to mod a game other than I LOVE you guys when you can make major mods. And dislike how God of War, for example, seems not to get any which I assume is because its not built for it. Idk. Point being, Bethesda shit except for you guys and I'm sorry if you don't believe it but seriously imagine what would have happened to skyrim without mods lol

[DocClox]

You're barking up the wrong tree. No one mods games unless they really like the game in question.

 

We're not modding this game in the hope of making it bearable. We're modding it because we already think it's amazing!

 

I appreciate that this isn't an opinion you share, but you're not going to talk us out of making Starfield mods.

Edited January 14, 2024 by DocClox

[dlr291185]

1 hour ago, DocClox said:

You're barking up the wrong tree. No one mods game unless they really like the game in question.

 

We're not modding this game in the hope of making it bearable. We're modding it because we already think it's amazing!

 

I appreciate that this isn't an opinion you share, but you're not going to talk us out of making Starfield mods.

Apologies wasn't my intention! Hope you do make starfield amazing! Then you'll enjoy it more and I'll enjoy it and ofc donate to whoever made it possible but interesting you love Starfield already-- truthfully I felt it lacked everything skyrim for example had (the exploring being rewarding, feeling real, wander off and discover 10hrs of content etc.) But truly glad you love it, especially cos then can't wait to see what you do!

[dlr291185]

Would you mind explaining why something like gow2018 has no major mods? Is it impossible to do with engine? Or not anyone keen. Major to me = massive gameplay changes or new enemies/bosses/things to do

[DocClox]

What are GoW's modding tools like? Seriously, I never played it so I have no idea.

 

The crazy thing that Bethesda did back in the days of Morrowind was to give away their entire development toolchain with the game. So anyone could write content for it. Or make competing total conversions. Or just generate enough additional content that it could compete with Bethesda's official stuff. I mean, absolutely batshit insane, right? I'd have love to have been a fly on the wall in that meeting!

 

And the gamble paid off, big time. Thing is, most other companies are reluctant to give away the store like that, so most modding tools tend to be half-hearted at best, and most games locked down against anything more than changing a few text strings or adding some textures. So they never develop the sort of communities that form around Bethesda games.

[DocClox]

3 hours ago, dlr291185 said:

interesting you love Starfield already-- truthfully I felt it lacked everything skyrim for example had

 

I think it's fair to say that the game had a fairly divisive launch. But then, Bethesda games generally do. Come back in ten years and I reckon everyone will be fulminating over the design flaws in Fallout 5 and wishing they could have done it right, like they did in Starfield.

 

Not an argument that's ever going to be won though, nor one I have much interest in rehashing yet again. If we're both here in ten years time, we can see which of us gets to tell the other "I told you so"

[Haviengar]

Bethesda is now owned by Microsoft yeah? Which means they are obligated to earn as much money as they can. Better to just wait and watch ..

[DocClox]

3 hours ago, Haviengar said:

Bethesda is now owned by Microsoft yeah? Which means they are obligated to earn as much money as they can. Better to just wait and watch ..

 

So ... Totally unlike how they've been under Zenimax the last 20 years?

[belegost]

On 1/12/2024 at 8:13 PM, dlr291185 said:

company full of evil people

 

Very evil. They eat babies and worship Satan!

 

 

/s <- in case a thick skull is reading this.

Edited January 15, 2024 by belegost

[Haviengar]

On 1/14/2024 at 9:39 PM, DocClox said:

 

So ... Totally unlike how they've been under Zenimax the last 20 years?

 

I thought Zenimax was wholly owned by Altman and Weaver. Were they on the stock market?

[DocClox]

Providence Equity held > 25% of the company. Not sure how much exactly since they never disclosed  the stake  the received for their last investment. There were a couple of other minor stakeholders as well.

 

There's a popular theory that Providence were the driving force behind some of the less popular decisions made at Bethesda, since they were trying to pump the on-paper value and get bought out. Before the MS deal, they approached EA, which I suspect would have been about 10 times worse than having MS as the new owners.

[Onionstarz]

They would have to pay me to play Starbollocks

[DocClox]

1 hour ago, Onionstarz said:

They would have to pay me to play Starbollocks

Thanks for sharing.

[modder focker]

People these days forget how much people hated Skyrim on launch lol. Look at some of the takes on reddit and other forums regarding the Skyrim launch and its the exact same shit as Starfield lol