NAF still Banned (on LL) ?

[dagobaking]

3 hours ago, ninjagaidenguy said:

There is only one person here that wants to take someone else to court for a free mod on the internet.

 

Yes. If there is a legal dispute, that's what adults do. But, there doesn't have to be a legal dispute. Preferably, SnapDragon would simply stop infringing on my work like he said he was going to do. Then no court is needed.

 

2 hours ago, shittyguy said:

dude show some proof for once that has a side by side of your code vs naf code because i have not seen you post hard proof about copied code.

 

Copyright protections are not limited to exact copies of source code. As I pointed out above, it is not possible to use "the same files" in the structure I designed, without re-implementing the same rules, processes, etc. to get the same in-game results. That is copyright infringement.

 

2 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

Additionally, per Google v Oracle, while an API may or may not be copyrightable (the Supreme Court made assumptions in their ruling, going so far as to explicitly state they were assumptions, but declined to actually rule definitively whether a public-facing API can be copyrighted or not...), using common elements and interpreting it fall squarely under fair use, so there is no case here.  NAF is not infringment since it didn't lift any actual code from AAF (which itself is nearly impossible since someone keeps the source code under wraps...).

 

Interpreting a data structure outside of the functional code is considered reverse engineering, and was established all the way back in 1992 in the Atari v Nintendo case as perfectly legal.  The AAF team does not have a case, which is why Nexus told them to pound sand with their fraudulent DMCA attempt.

 

The Google v Oracle case involved an API for an entire language that was used on industry-spanning products. That is completely different than a code structure made just for one application. The only way you could invoke Fair Use is if you could somehow prove that AAF is the only way to make an XML based animation framework. That clearly is not the case. OSA is another XML based animation framework that already exists with an entirely different API.

 

Reverse engineering was deemed legal as a private act. It wasn't ruled that anything that can be reverse engineered can be copied and included in other products.

 

With DMCA, Nexus isn't supposed to review anything. They are supposed to ask SnapDragon to file a counter notice. In order to be valid, it has to give information so that I can follow up and pursue him in court if necessary. Your idea that Nexus should be the judge and jury of IP decisions is exactly why the entire Western World has supported DMCA procedures to begin with. To prevent unqualified middle-men from making decisions that affect peoples legal rights.

 

1 hour ago, mrwiseman said:

So, the problem is using a specific XML structure not the code used to parse the damn thing ?
If Snapdragon create is own format, open-source it with and ship it with a converter for the legacy "upper duper" proprietary format, that would be acceptable ?
By the way, i still don't understand closed source in a community project. I get wanting to protect his works, specially if you wish to make money.

 

No. Using some superficial XML workaround would not remove the infringement. SnapDragon needs to do his own work and make his own format from the ground up.

 

Even if every person wanted me to hand AAF over to someone else, that is something that would need to be requested and agreed to. Not just done in the darkness of night and sprung on me with the hopes that some rebel discord crew can drown out peoples rights and objections.

 

I haven't open-sourced the project to protect myself from precisely this type of situation: where someone wants to copy my work WHILE I am still working on it. I will open-source it if I retire from modding. Otherwise, having two copies of the same mod floating around will only make my project goals more difficult as well as complicating the now large network of authors who have also invested effort into it.

 

It's not as if the openness of possibilities is controlled by me or AAF. Nothing is stopping anybody from making their own product and doing the work to support, revise, encourage other authors to use, etc. What we are really talking about in this case is some people throwing ethics aside and wanting to hijack someone elses work so that they don't have to do the same work. And the basis for this is merely SOME peoples opinion that they have an improvement. It's a slippery slope argument.

Edited January 5 by dagobaking

[Yannis Valentine]

What is OSA?

[davisev5225]

18 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

With DMCA, Nexus isn't supposed to review anything. They are supposed to ask SnapDragon to file a counter notice. In order to be valid, it has to give information so that I can follow up and pursue him in court if necessary. Your idea that Nexus should be the judge and jury of IP decisions is exactly why the entire Western World has supported DMCA procedures to begin with. To prevent unqualified middle-men from making decisions that affect peoples legal rights.

 

Incorrect.  DMCA only compels action if the party being served (Nexus, in this case) can reasonably conclude that you have merit.  Most websites choose not to make that determination themselves and instead just capitulate because, if you do have merit and they did fail to act, they are now also culpable.  There's no legal penalty for a website complying with a malicious or fraudulent DMCA claim, but there is the possibility of a penalty if they fail to comply with a valid request because you then have the ability to include them in your litigation and force them to share in the judgement.

 

The fact that Nexus, with their paid legal team, decided that you don't even have merit is quite telling.  You're also, once again, demonstrating that you don't actually know how the law works.

Edited January 5 by davisev5225

[dagobaking]

4 minutes ago, Yannis Valentine said:

What is OSA?

 

https://legendofceo.com/osa/

 

2 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

Incorrect.  DMCA only compels action if the party being served (Nexus, in this case) can reasonably conclude that you have merit.  Most websites choose not to make that determination themselves and instead just capitulate because, if you do have merit and they did fail to act, they are now also culpable.  There's no legal penalty for a website complying with a malicious or fraudulent DMCA claim, but there is the possibility of a penalty if they fail to comply with a valid request.

 

The fact that Nexus, with their paid legal team, decided that you don't even have merit is quite telling.  You're also, once again, demonstrating that you don't actually know how the law works.

 

Sorry. You are the one who is incorrect. DMCA has ZERO to do with third parties evaluating the merits of the actual infringement.

 

It is true that a company can reject an invalid DMCA Takedown Notice. But, that is limited to a very short bullet-list of trivial information. I complied with that part.

 

The penalty for not complying with DMCA is that the company (as well as arguably their advertising partners who are profiting off of the infringement) can also be sued for infringement.

[Yannis Valentine]

But OSA is from skyrim not fallout 4 those are different games how does that applies here?

[dagobaking]

Just now, Yannis Valentine said:

But OSA is from skyrim not fallout 4 those are different games how does that applies here?

 

It demonstrates that there are other ways to make animation frameworks with XML that are completely different from AAF. And thus Fair Use exceptions do not apply.

[davisev5225]

11 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

It is true that a company can reject an invalid DMCA Takedown Notice. But, that is limited to a very short bullet-list of trivial information. I complied with that part.

 

The penalty for not complying with DMCA is that the company (as well as arguably their advertising partners who are profiting off of the infringement) can also be sued for infringement.

 

Again, you're wrong.  They can decline any request they want, just at the risk that you could include them in any lawsuit you choose to file.  And I repeat: the fact that Nexus, with their paid legal team, decided you're full of shit is quite telling.

 

https://www.quora.com/Can-I-decline-to-enact-a-DMCA-takedown-request-if-I-find-it-to-be-wrong

Edited January 5 by davisev5225

[dagobaking]

3 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

 

Again, you're wrong.  They can decline any request they want, just at the risk that you could include them in any lawsuit you choose to file.  And I repeat: the fact that Nexus, with their paid legal team, decided you're full of shit is quite telling.

 

https://www.quora.com/Can-I-decline-to-enact-a-DMCA-takedown-request-if-I-find-it-to-be-wrong

 

lol - You just gave me the answer I gave you and pretended like you came up with it.

 

Yes! The penalty for declining a DMCA request is that you LOSE the special protection for content holders that DMCA provides.

 

As I explained already: the purpose of DMCA is to avoid middle-men being involved. That's why the protection against infringement was added as an incentive.

 

Do you have knowledge that any legal team was involved in evaluating my notice?

[Yannis Valentine]

If your legal team was involved why didnt you sue nexus?

[dagobaking]

2 minutes ago, Yannis Valentine said:

If your legal team was involved why didnt you sue nexus?

 

Why do you assume that I am not?

[Yannis Valentine]

And you mentioned NAF copied code from AAF but where is the proof?

Edited January 5 by Yannis Valentine

[dagobaking]

1 minute ago, Yannis Valentine said:

And you mentioned NAF copied code from AAF but where is the proof?

 

I've gone over that multiple times now.

[Yannis Valentine]

Saying something doesnt makes it true, you can show a picture but you havent done it

[davisev5225]

Interpreting XML data is not infringement.  Using common variables like "StartScene", "StopScene", etc. is not infringement.  You've failed to demonstrate anything beyond that.

 

 

  

6 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

Why do you assume that I am not?

 

Please do share the case if you're being serious about that.  I'd love to watch you lose.  ?

 

 

  

12 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

lol - You just gave me the answer I gave you and pretended like you came up with it.

 

No, you tried to claim that they legally cannot deny your claim because you filled out the form properly, then out the other side of your mouth, acknowledged that they actually can.  I set the record straight by removing your bullshit claims about the legality of denying your claim.

 

 

  

13 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

Do you have knowledge that any legal team was involved in evaluating my notice?

 

Speculation, but grounded in reality.  Nexus is a media empire of sorts, with lots of money involved.  If you think for a moment that they're going to "cowboy" their way through that, you're sorely mistaken.  Remember, this is the same organization that decided they could take legal ownership of distribution of any content that has ever been uploaded, and no one has prevailed in any challenge against it.  They most definitely have a legal team handling legal aspects of running their business and website.

Edited January 5 by davisev5225

[dagobaking]

Just now, Yannis Valentine said:

Saying something doesnt makes it true, you can show a picture but you havent done it

 

A) I have literally showed pictures in the past.

B) I don't need to show pictures to point out that exact copied code is not the only thing covered by copyright.

C) I don't need to make the entire technical case publicly. I have more detail prepared. But, that is for qualified people to review. Not the peanut gallery.

[Yannis Valentine]

So you have baseless complaints in these forums gotcha

[dagobaking]

4 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

Interpreting XML data is not infringement.  Using common variables like "StartScene", "StopScene", etc. is not infringement.  You've failed to demonstrate anything beyond that.

 

Please do share the case if you're being serious about that.  I'd love to watch you lose.  ?

 

Do you have knowledge that any legal team reviewed my case at Nexus?

 

...crickets...

Edited January 5 by dagobaking

[dagobaking]

Just now, Yannis Valentine said:

So you have baseless complaints in these forums gotcha

 

No. I already gave everyone a clear basis. Same one I gave months ago.

 

Giving a clear basis does not require me to make a technical legal case to the SnapDragon discord crew.

[Yannis Valentine]

You are basically saying something here without proof unlike your discord crew snapdragons dont go on posting childlike comments on others forums

[dagobaking]

1 minute ago, Yannis Valentine said:

You are basically saying something here without proof unlike your discord crew snapdragons dont go on posting childlike comments on others forums

 

Childlike comments?

 

Like the time when you lied and told people that I make money for every email address given on moddingham?

 

Or how about when you tell people that you are a lawyer?

 

Nah. I'm not aware of anyone from AAF discord making comments like that.

 

Not all arguments require proof to be valid or true. You've just made a non-sequitur argument.

[davisev5225]

9 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

B) I don't need to show pictures to point out that exact copied code is not the only thing covered by copyright.

C) I don't need to make the entire technical case publicly. I have more detail prepared. But, that is for qualified people to review. Not the peanut gallery.

 

Then stop arguing your "case" here and do what every attorney always recommends: shut up.  Leave it for the courts.  Every time you post information about your "case" here, you run the risk of eroding your position.  Just stop.

 

That's genuine legal advice.  I don't think you have a leg to stand on here, but out of all sincerity, the best action you can take is to not keep talking about it if you're serious about litigating.  It can and might be used against you.

 

 

  

1 minute ago, dagobaking said:

 

Like the time when you lied and told people that I make money for every email address given on moddingham?

 

I haven't bothered looking anything resembling recently, but if you have any advertising on moddingham, this might actually be true.  Advertisers change rates according to exposure rates, and the number of registered users might be a factor.

Edited January 5 by davisev5225

[Yannis Valentine]

I remember a certain image in the first posts lol how can someone believe you, youre one of those persons that believe the election was stolen lmao

[dagobaking]

1 minute ago, davisev5225 said:

Then stop arguing your "case" here and do what every attorney always recommends: shut up.  Leave it for the courts.  Every time you post information about your "case" here, you run the risk of eroding your position.  Just stop.

 

That's genuine legal advice.  I don't think you have a leg to stand on here, but out of all sincerity, the best action you can take is to not keep talking about it if you're serious about litigating.  It can and might be used against you.

 

Do you have knowledge of any legal team at Nexus reviewing my case?

[DoctaSax]

2 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

It's not about cooperation, it's about protecting their Patreon nest-egg and their malicious data collection on their own website.

 

Please refrain from these allegations. It doesn't help NAF in any way that its fans resort to them.

[dagobaking]

2 minutes ago, Yannis Valentine said:

I remember a certain image in the first posts lol how can someone believe you, youre one of those persons that believe the election was stolen lmao

 

Talk about pot calling kettle...