Why the fuck aliens are so hot?

[Blitztaku]

PRIME EXAMPLES: YAUTJA, TURIANS, XENOMORPH QUEEN, TRANDOSHIAN, RODIAN.

[Idyll]

On 11/4/2023 at 2:56 PM, Blitztaku said:

PRIME EXAMPLES: YAUTJA, TURIANS, XENOMORPH QUEEN, TRANDOSHIAN, RODIAN.

 

...Because they stem from the depraved recesses of the Human mind! ?

[TheJewBall]

To experience sexuality is to experience curiosity. 

 

Nothing probes curiosity like the concept of outer space, and the idea that life, intelligent life, could live beyond in the stars. There is so much to that element that we wish to explore, and that includes the age old question: "Can we fuck it?"

[Guest]

9 hours ago, TheJewBall said:

the idea that life, intelligent life, could live beyond in the stars.

Seriously! 

With the vast amount of Galaxies out there, with a small percentage of planets in each with the possibility of being "Life bearing", the fact is we are not alone.

Only "Man" (Male & Female) could be so Haughty as to actually believe they are the only "Life" in the Universe!

I know why Aliens have not visited us, and why they should not visit us, War.

If Aliens do Visit it will be for Domination, no other reason to set down here.

[FucksSakeFacebook]

It's a shame that it would be not the fun kind of domination. 

It could be BDSM aliens. But how would they know which BDSM is ours?

[Guest]

On 11/22/2023 at 12:54 PM, FucksSakeFacebook said:

It's a shame that it would be not the fun kind of domination. 

It could be BDSM aliens. But how would they know which BDSM is ours?

 You got that Right!  

[Idyll]

On 11/22/2023 at 8:21 AM, Sir Bron said:

Seriously! 

With the vast amount of Galaxies out there, with a small percentage of planets in each with the possibility of being "Life bearing", the fact is we are not alone.

Only "Man" (Male & Female) could be so Haughty as to actually believe they are the only "Life" in the Universe!

I know why Aliens have not visited us, and why they should not visit us, War.

If Aliens do Visit it will be for Domination, no other reason to set down here.

 

Or perhaps more technical reasons such as...

 

As per Hubble's Law, the further galaxies are, the faster they move away from one another; I would add it best applies to clusters as galaxies do not seem to stray from their galaxy clusters hence I'd argue the clusters are the real racers. Superclusters' constituting galaxy clusters tend to disperse over time.

 

It seems to me superclusters are forms of flowing current guiding galaxy clusters through the universe in its shapely evolvement (which superclusters are smaller objects than galaxy clusters,) I like to compare this to fish gliding through and/or according to the flows of oceanic currents. Hints of a greater guiding force.

 

The myriad galaxy clusters' in this rather seemingly infinite universe's distance from eachother increasing at a rate often beyond the speed of light, implying that the ensuing great spatial chasms would not be the only challenge, but also the speed itself hinting at an immeasurably strong pull capable of holding galaxies together as they defer to the universe's unscalable whims.

 

(I'm being dramatic but it seems to make sense to me, at least theoretically, despite my lack of calculations.)

 

Voidly horizons so devoid of anything for the lengths of quantities mindbreakingly endless, whether in physical scale or time, that it would be nigh impossible for conventional spacecrafts utilising technologies and other scientific knowledge (that I'm aware) we're aware of to travel beyond their cluster as the pull of their origin galaxy cluster would also drag said spacecraft along its course despite its best attempts to escape its traction.

 

And this would most likely hold true even for most fictional technologies that still bear a semblance of plausibility. Perhaps it is possible to use the "universal flows" I described earlier to accelerate one's displacement though I'm not well placed to study the idea, or other ideas, in scientific detail.

 

As for potential extraterrestrials in our own cluster, the "Local Group" (not Laniakea which is the supercluster we're part of, albeit momentarily,) the possible reasons are many and only theories until, I would argue, proven through total exploration of said Local Group, or finally meeting and discovering the intents and/or ideas regarding such a momentous event, whether it be grand to both species or merely the one.

 

Intelligent alien life could experience this reality in ways so different to ours that our reasoning and theirs may be so dissonant to one another that despite both species' intellects we fail to recognise it in eachother, or recognise it in rightly extents. We may not even be able to experience their presence with our senses, or be aware that our senses "noticed" them, considering the possibly vastly different manner of existing we'd have.

 

We tend to idealise and dream of aliens as humanoids (or close enough) with needs, intentions and designs whether aligned or at least not so disimilar to those of Mankind, a tendency which speaks of our failure in readiness for meeting would-be planetary outsiders. Most of us fail to open up to more alien possibilities. Perhaps our minds cannot bear it.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Idyll
Single Typo. Burn it.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Idyll said:

 

Or perhaps more technical reasons such as...

 

As per Hubble's Law, the further galaxies are, the faster they move away from one another; I would add it best applies to clusters as galaxies do not seem to stray from their galaxy clusters hence I'd argue the clusters are the real racers. Superclusters' constituting galaxy clusters tend to disperse over time.

 

It seems to me superclusters are forms of flowing current guiding galaxy clusters through the universe in its shapely evolvement (which superclusters are smaller objects than galaxy clusters,) I like to compare this to fish gliding through and/or according to the flows of oceanic currents. Hints of a greater guiding force.

 

The myriad galaxy clusters' in this rather seemingly infinite universe's distance from eachother increasing at a rate often beyond the speed of light, implying that the ensuing great spatial chasms would not be the only challenge, but also the speed itself hinting at an immeasurably strong pull capable of holding galaxies together as they defer to the universe's unscalable whims.

 

(I'm being dramatic but it seems to make sense to me, at least theoretically, despite my lack of calculations.)

 

Voidly horizons so devoid of anything for the lengths of quantities mindbreakingly endless, whether in physical scale or time, that it would be nigh impossible for conventional spacecrafts utilising technologies and other scientific knowledge (that I'm aware) we're aware of to travel beyond their cluster as the pull of their origin galaxy cluster would also drag said spacecraft along its course despite its best attempts to escape its traction.

 

And this would most likely hold true even for most fictional technologies that still bear a semblance of plausibility. Perhaps it is possible to use the "universal flows" I described earlier to accelerate one's displacement though I'm not well placed to study the idea, or other ideas, in scientific detail.

 

As for potential extraterrestrials in our own cluster, the "Local Group" (not Laniakea which is the supercluster we're part of, albeit momentarily,) the possible reasons are many and only theories until, I would argue, proven through total exploration of said Local Group, or finally meeting and discovering the intents and/or ideas regarding such a momentous event, whether it be grand to both species or merely the one.

 

Intelligent alien life could experience this reality in ways so different to ours that our reasoning and theirs may be so dissonant to one another that despite both species' intellects we fail to recognise it in eachother, or recognise it in rightly extents. We may not even be able to experience their presence with our senses, or be aware that our senses "noticed" them, considering the possibly vastly different manner of existing we'd have.

 

We tend to idealise and dream of aliens as humanoids (or close enough) with needs, intentions and designs whether aligned or at least not so disimilar to those of Mankind, a tendency which speaks of our failure in readiness for meeting would-be planetary outsiders. Most of us fail to open up to more alien possibilities. Perhaps our minds cannot bear it.

A Very Well Thought out response! Kudo's.....But...Alternate Dimensions Origin Theory.....No Warp Drive Yet....????    Tongue in Cheek response  

[Miauzi]

23 minutes ago, Idyll said:

 

Oder vielleicht eher technische Gründe wie...

 

Gemäß dem Hubble-Gesetz entfernen sich Galaxien umso schneller voneinander, je weiter sie voneinander entfernt sind. Ich würde hinzufügen, dass dies am besten auf Galaxienhaufen zutrifft, da Galaxien scheinbar nicht von ihren Galaxienhaufen abweichen. Daher würde ich behaupten, dass die Galaxienhaufen die wahren Rennfahrer sind. Die Galaxienhaufen, aus denen Superhaufen bestehen, neigen dazu, sich mit der Zeit aufzulösen.

 

Es scheint mir, dass Superhaufen Formen fließender Strömungen sind, die Galaxienhaufen in ihrer formellen Entwicklung durch das Universum leiten (wobei Superhaufen kleinere Objekte als Galaxienhaufen sind). Ich vergleiche dies gerne mit Fischen, die durch und/oder entsprechend den Strömungen der Meeresströmungen gleiten . Hinweise auf eine größere Führungskraft.

 

Die Entfernung der unzähligen Galaxienhaufen in diesem eher scheinbar unendlichen Universum voneinander nimmt mit einer Geschwindigkeit zu, die oft über die Lichtgeschwindigkeit hinausgeht, was bedeutet, dass die daraus resultierenden großen räumlichen Abgründe nicht die einzige Herausforderung sein würden, sondern auch die Geschwindigkeit selbst, die auf eine unermesslich starke Anziehungskraft hindeutet Sie sind in der Lage, Galaxien zusammenzuhalten, während sie sich den nicht skalierbaren Launen des Universums beugen.

 

(Ich bin dramatisch, aber es scheint mir, zumindest theoretisch, trotz meiner mangelnden Berechnungen Sinn zu machen.)

 

Leere Horizonte, die so leer sind, dass es in der Länge der Mengen, sei es im physikalischen Maßstab oder in der Zeit, umwerfend endlos ist, dass es für herkömmliche Raumschiffe, die uns bekannte Technologien und andere wissenschaftliche Erkenntnisse (die mir bekannt sind) nutzen, nahezu unmöglich wäre, zu reisen über ihren Galaxienhaufen hinaus, da die Anziehungskraft ihres ursprünglichen Galaxienhaufens das Raumschiff trotz aller Versuche, seiner Anziehungskraft zu entkommen, ebenfalls auf seinem Kurs mitziehen würde.

 

Und dies würde höchstwahrscheinlich sogar für die meisten fiktiven Technologien gelten, die immer noch einen Anschein von Plausibilität haben. Vielleicht ist es möglich, die „universellen Strömungen“, die ich zuvor beschrieben habe, zu nutzen, um die eigene Verschiebung zu beschleunigen, obwohl ich nicht in der Lage bin, die Idee oder andere Ideen im wissenschaftlichen Detail zu studieren.

 

Was potenzielle Außerirdische in unserem eigenen Cluster, der „Lokalen Gruppe“ (nicht Laniakea, dem Supercluster, zu dem wir gehören, wenn auch vorübergehend), betrifft, gibt es viele und nur Theorien, bis sie, würde ich behaupten, durch umfassende Erforschung bewiesen werden besagter lokaler Gruppe, oder sich schließlich zu treffen und die Absichten und/oder Ideen in Bezug auf solch ein bedeutsames Ereignis zu entdecken, sei es für beide Arten großartig oder nur für eine.

 

Intelligentes außerirdisches Leben könnte diese Realität auf eine Weise erfahren, die sich von der unseren so sehr unterscheidet, dass unsere und ihre Überlegungen möglicherweise so dissonant sind, dass wir sie trotz der Intelligenz beider Arten nicht in der anderen erkennen oder nicht im richtigen Ausmaß erkennen. Möglicherweise sind wir nicht einmal in der Lage, ihre Präsenz mit unseren Sinnen zu spüren, oder uns bewusst zu sein, dass unsere Sinne sie „bemerkt“ haben, wenn man bedenkt, dass wir möglicherweise eine ganz andere Art zu existieren hätten.

 

Wir neigen dazu, Außerirdische als Humanoide zu idealisieren und von ihnen zu träumen (oder ihnen nahe genug zu sein), deren Bedürfnisse, Absichten und Absichten mit denen der Menschheit übereinstimmen oder sich zumindest nicht so sehr davon unterscheiden, eine Tendenz, die darauf hinweist, dass wir nicht bereit sind, potenziellen Außenseitern auf dem Planeten zu begegnen . Möglichkeiten zu öffnen Den meisten von uns gelingt es nicht, uns fremderen . Vielleicht kann unser Verstand es nicht ertragen.

 

According to recent astronomical findings, we have 400 billion stars in our galaxy alone... of which more than 100 billion are our own planets.

Even if there are "only" 100 million planets similar to Earth... and only 10 million of them are in the viable zone around their host star long enough... the galaxy is teeming with life.

But we can hardly discover it at all... from our own star system... unless these "aliens" have polluted their home planet just as badly as we have polluted ours (based on ingredients in the atmosphere, even over many light years with telescopes discover).

SF literature has been dealing with this question for more than 200 years... and has continually adapted both the question and the technology used to solve it to technical and scientific progress.

A scientist once raised the question in this context:

If there has been a technologically advanced civilization in our galaxy for some time...why hasn't it been here yet?

There are now more than 10-12 plausible answers to this... and a few that belong more to the humor/satire area - like the "Space Zoo Earth" or the "Primate Sanctuary in the Solar System" or the "Shadow Proclamation" (Dr. Who )

 

I would like to pick just one answer - which ultimately contains an important question -> How long does a civilization live on its home planet?

This is also linked to the circumstance - how long a "different" civilization has been in existence or is willing to look for other civilizations that are "similar" to them.

Consider:

- our own civilization is just 10,000 years old

- We are able to search for others passively for about 100 years

- We have been able to actively send messages based on their calls for about 50 years

- and traveling to other stars is currently -> "Space Opera"

At the same time, we are struggling with a cornucopia of global problems... and there is definitely no sign that we want to solve them together... whether we can actually do it is on another page of the book "Fate of a Civilization"

In general the question arises:

How long does a technology-focused civilization live?

And even if that were 1 million years - i.e. 100 times longer than our own - if you put that in relation to the lifespan of the Milky Way and the age of planets until they have highly developed ecosystems... there is a danger that you will miss the "time". (in my opinion) probably the biggest!

[Idyll]

8 hours ago, Miauzi said:

 

According to recent astronomical findings, we have 400 billion stars in our galaxy alone... of which more than 100 billion are our own planets.

Even if there are "only" 100 million planets similar to Earth... and only 10 million of them are in the viable zone around their host star long enough... the galaxy is teeming with life.

But we can hardly discover it at all... from our own star system... unless these "aliens" have polluted their home planet just as badly as we have polluted ours (based on ingredients in the atmosphere, even over many light years with telescopes discover).

SF literature has been dealing with this question for more than 200 years... and has continually adapted both the question and the technology used to solve it to technical and scientific progress.

A scientist once raised the question in this context:

If there has been a technologically advanced civilization in our galaxy for some time...why hasn't it been here yet?

There are now more than 10-12 plausible answers to this... and a few that belong more to the humor/satire area - like the "Space Zoo Earth" or the "Primate Sanctuary in the Solar System" or the "Shadow Proclamation" (Dr. Who )

 

I would like to pick just one answer - which ultimately contains an important question -> How long does a civilization live on its home planet?

This is also linked to the circumstance - how long a "different" civilization has been in existence or is willing to look for other civilizations that are "similar" to them.

Consider:

- our own civilization is just 10,000 years old

- We are able to search for others passively for about 100 years

- We have been able to actively send messages based on their calls for about 50 years

- and traveling to other stars is currently -> "Space Opera"

At the same time, we are struggling with a cornucopia of global problems... and there is definitely no sign that we want to solve them together... whether we can actually do it is on another page of the book "Fate of a Civilization"

In general the question arises:

How long does a technology-focused civilization live?

And even if that were 1 million years - i.e. 100 times longer than our own - if you put that in relation to the lifespan of the Milky Way and the age of planets until they have highly developed ecosystems... there is a danger that you will miss the "time". (in my opinion) probably the biggest!

 

I love your angle and quite agree.

 

After all, after one issue comes another to solve, resources are not infinite although present throughout the universe and I believe technology can likely be furthered to alleviate the limitedness eventually, and priorities would likely be elsewhere since, well, priorities be priorities, plus adding active inter-species politics with a budding race such as ours, admittedly one for the most part still relishing in self-destructive turmoil... Adding that to the plate would make for useless and avoidable headaches.

 

Space is of a scale so grand; and I like to even think it infinite; that one doesn't need to seek the turf of other species for some meager sustainance from already grazed resources. Although, if a species requires consuming other species in some way for sustainance, if they make it to us it hints at sufficiently advanced technology, obviously, in case of a mindly intellect, but also at the likelihood of them having found other species out there in the firmament for their devouring; to some extent confirming life is more populous than we'd assumed until our point of meeting.

 

As you pointed out, I feel it can largely be considered a question of missing the time and pertinence to perform strides towards meeting alien species and mismatching time windows, we may be budding as potential neighbouring alien civilisations reach the end of their lifetime and those still with time may not have finding other civilisations as their greatest priority.

 

This of course is all assuming their version of curiosity, the driving force behind their science, is of a like definition to ours. Perhaps they are sated with certain fields we do not have the mind or ability to consider rather than our approach. Adding to that the likely fact that their science, and by extension their reasons to explore and learn scientifical matters, is most likely to be in a way suitable to their own species. Going back to my comments on the alienness of alien life, they would scientifically grow in a way that suits their way of existing, whether we can observe it in some way, through our senses or tech, or not.

 

I tend to talk of senses because I don't discard the possibility that different ways of experiencing "reality" exist beyond those we know, that is to say other than touch, sight, smell, hearing, etc. Heck, they may be extracorporeal for all we know.

 

Slightly unrelated...

Spoiler

Back to time, I've been thinking about something, what if some other beings live at different "standard rates of time"?

 

("Standard rate of time" here being a maybe-placeholder name but mostly referring to the rate at which we experience and calculate time based on this "rate." It's a rather fresh idea that occurred to me some time ago and I haven't exactly thought about it so in-depthly but here's what I can word it like.)

 

The idea came to me based on ephemerals - the insects.

 

With this I mean to lead towards: What if some beings experience time "slower" or "faster," and their existence, their actions(, etc.) are experienced by them like we do at our "standard rate of time," that is to say it it is normal and life unfolds as normal for them as it is their norm, their standard rate of experiencing time. They could build civilisations that span until what to them feels like centuries whilst to us it would be the passing of mere seconds, or maybe even faster and we wouldn't even notice. Or for slower standard rate-rs, placing a brick in a wall may feel like it takes the same amount of "time" as we'd feel, yet would take centuries in our standard rate. This could be, I guess, at larger, similar or smaller scales in terms of lifeform size.

 

 

[Miauzi]

1 hour ago, Idyll said:

 

Ich liebe deinen Standpunkt und stimme vollkommen zu.

 

Denn nachdem ein Problem ein anderes zu lösen hat, sind die Ressourcen nicht unendlich, obwohl sie im gesamten Universum vorhanden sind, und ich glaube, dass die Technologie wahrscheinlich weiterentwickelt werden kann, um die Begrenztheit irgendwann zu mildern, und die Prioritäten würden wahrscheinlich woanders liegen, denn nun ja, Prioritäten sind Prioritäten, plus Addition aktive Politik zwischen den Spezies mit einer aufstrebenden Rasse wie der unseren, die zugegebenermaßen größtenteils immer noch Freude an selbstzerstörerischem Aufruhr hat ... Wenn man das noch hinzufügt, würde das zu nutzlosem und vermeidbarem Kopfzerbrechen führen.

 

Der Weltraum ist so groß; und ich denke sogar gerne, dass es unendlich ist; dass man nicht den Rasen anderer Arten suchen muss, um sich von bereits beweideten Ressourcen zu ernähren. Wenn eine Art zum Überleben auf die eine oder andere Art den Verzehr anderer Arten erfordert, deutet die Tatsache, dass sie zu uns gelangt, auf eine ausreichend fortgeschrittene Technologie hin, natürlich im Falle eines wachen Intellekts, aber auch auf die Wahrscheinlichkeit, dass sie dort draußen andere Arten gefunden hat am Firmament für ihr Verschlingen; Dies bestätigt in gewisser Weise, dass das Leben bevölkerungsreicher ist, als wir bis zu unserem Treffen angenommen hatten.

 

Wie Sie bereits betont haben, kann es meines Erachtens weitgehend als eine Frage der fehlenden Zeit und der Relevanz angesehen werden, um Fortschritte bei der Begegnung mit außerirdischen Arten zu machen, und mit nicht übereinstimmenden Zeitfenstern. Wir könnten in der Entwicklung begriffen sein, da potenzielle benachbarte außerirdische Zivilisationen das Ende ihrer Lebenszeit erreichen und diese noch Mit der Zeit ist es vielleicht nicht mehr die größte Priorität, andere Zivilisationen zu finden.

 

Dies alles setzt natürlich voraus, dass ihre Version von Neugier, die treibende Kraft hinter ihrer Wissenschaft, eine ähnliche Definition hat wie wir. Vielleicht sind sie mit bestimmten Bereichen gesättigt, die wir nicht in Betracht ziehen können, statt mit unserem Ansatz. Hinzu kommt die wahrscheinliche Tatsache, dass ihre Wissenschaft und damit auch ihre Beweggründe, wissenschaftliche Themen zu erforschen und zu lernen, höchstwahrscheinlich auf eine Art und Weise für ihre eigene Spezies geeignet sind. Um auf meine Kommentare zur Fremdartigkeit des außerirdischen Lebens zurückzukommen: Sie würden wissenschaftlich auf eine Weise wachsen, die zu ihrer Existenzweise passt, unabhängig davon, ob wir sie auf irgendeine Weise beobachten können, durch unsere Sinne oder Technik oder nicht.

 

Ich neige dazu, von Sinnen zu sprechen, weil ich die Möglichkeit nicht ausschließe, dass es andere Arten der Erfahrung der „Realität“ gibt, die über die uns bekannten hinausgehen, also andere als Berührung, Sehen, Riechen, Hören usw. Verdammt, sie können extrakorporal sein soweit wir wissen.

 

Etwas unabhängig...

  Inhalte ausblenden

Vor langer Zeit habe ich über etwas nachgedacht: Was wäre, wenn einige andere Lebewesen in anderen „Standardzeitraten“ leben würden?

 

(„Standardzeitrate“ ist hier vielleicht ein Platzhaltername, bezieht sich aber hauptsächlich auf die Rate, mit der wir die Zeit erleben und auf der Grundlage dieser „Rate“ berechnen. Es ist eine ziemlich neue Idee, die mir vor einiger Zeit in den Sinn kam, und ich habe Ich habe nicht so gründlich darüber nachgedacht, aber ich kann es so formulieren.)

 

Die Idee kam mir aufgrund von Ephemeren – den Insekten.

 

Damit möchte ich zu Folgendem führen: Was wäre, wenn manche Lebewesen die Zeit „langsamer“ oder „schneller“ erleben und ihre Existenz, ihre Handlungen (usw.) von ihnen so erlebt werden, wie wir es in unserem „Standardzeittempo“ tun? Das heißt, es ist normal und das Leben verläuft für sie so normal, wie es ihre Norm, ihr Standardtempo des Zeiterlebens ist. Sie könnten Zivilisationen aufbauen, die sich über mehrere Jahrhunderte erstrecken, während für uns nur Sekunden vergehen würden, oder vielleicht sogar schneller, ohne dass wir es überhaupt merken würden. Oder bei langsameren Standardtarifen könnte es sich anfühlen, als würde das Platzieren eines Ziegelsteins in einer Wand genauso viel Zeit in Anspruch nehmen, wie wir es empfinden würden, bei unserem Standardtarif würde es jedoch Jahrhunderte dauern. Ich vermute, dass dies in Bezug auf die Größe der Lebensformen in größeren, ähnlichen oder kleineren Maßstäben der Fall sein könnte.

 

 

 

If I go by the "classic" SFI from the 1950-1970s - in which even a "short" journey of a few light years requires such massive material investments (spaceship PLUS "fuel") - that we need tens of decades to provide it... . a “trade” in material goods between two civilizations makes no sense at all.

Likewise, an "armed" conquest of a star system is completely pointless for economic reasons - because the terraforming of entire (unpopulated) planets only requires a fraction of these resources.

The same goes for planetary mining... just overcoming the gravity funnel for transport from the surface to orbit...

...all these fantasies have a common basis - the complete ignoring of real physics and technology aka real space travel... so you slide into "space opera" territory and try to argue from there. This is how bullshit scenarios like “Intependence Day” come out.

In all of this, it is primarily the "Western" society that transports its violent colonization culture into the future... with the "covered wagon" and the "Winchester" into the vastness of space... that's why the primarily "human" ones are alien -Races are a reflection of one's own culture and psyche (fears and hopes)

Yes, of course I also like races like the “Asari” - but here I know that this is a sexual S-Fi fantasy that is interesting to me.

The “classic” SFi I mentioned also has some examples in this direction...

...for me it's still one of the best "The Girl from Space" by Ivan A. Jefremow - after all, it was written at the end of the 1950s.

 

(The Earth exchanges information with other civilizations via "radio signals" - video messages travel at the speed of light and therefore often travel for hundreds of years... a scientist from Earth falls in love with the representative seen when he sees such a message these "aliens" ... but can't accept that you'll never be able to meet them in real life - but as one of the leading researchers in high-energy physics ... *spoiler*)

 

---

Your approach of different perceptions of individual time doesn't go far enough for me... You basically stay in the same macroscopic order of magnitude.

But now processes on a molecular or even atomic scale take place much faster... and those on a planetary or even stellar scale take place much slower.

Only a few SFi authors or scientists venture into these regions with their thinking... I'm just saying -> the "cold outsiders" in the Ringworld universe

who also have their distant "hot brothers" in the atmospheres of stars... for them biological life is an absolute "affront"

?

[Idyll]

1 hour ago, Miauzi said:

 

If I go by the "classic" SFI from the 1950-1970s - in which even a "short" journey of a few light years requires such massive material investments (spaceship PLUS "fuel") - that we need tens of decades to provide it... . a “trade” in material goods between two civilizations makes no sense at all.

Likewise, an "armed" conquest of a star system is completely pointless for economic reasons - because the terraforming of entire (unpopulated) planets only requires a fraction of these resources.

The same goes for planetary mining... just overcoming the gravity funnel for transport from the surface to orbit...

...all these fantasies have a common basis - the complete ignoring of real physics and technology aka real space travel... so you slide into "space opera" territory and try to argue from there. This is how bullshit scenarios like “Intependence Day” come out.

In all of this, it is primarily the "Western" society that transports its violent colonization culture into the future... with the "covered wagon" and the "Winchester" into the vastness of space... that's why the primarily "human" ones are alien -Races are a reflection of one's own culture and psyche (fears and hopes)

Yes, of course I also like races like the “Asari” - but here I know that this is a sexual S-Fi fantasy that is interesting to me.

The “classic” SFi I mentioned also has some examples in this direction...

...for me it's still one of the best "The Girl from Space" by Ivan A. Jefremow - after all, it was written at the end of the 1950s.

 

(The Earth exchanges information with other civilizations via "radio signals" - video messages travel at the speed of light and therefore often travel for hundreds of years... a scientist from Earth falls in love with the representative seen when he sees such a message these "aliens" ... but can't accept that you'll never be able to meet them in real life - but as one of the leading researchers in high-energy physics ... *spoiler*)

 

---

Your approach of different perceptions of individual time doesn't go far enough for me... You basically stay in the same macroscopic order of magnitude.

But now processes on a molecular or even atomic scale take place much faster... and those on a planetary or even stellar scale take place much slower.

Only a few SFi authors or scientists venture into these regions with their thinking... I'm just saying -> the "cold outsiders" in the Ringworld universe

who also have their distant "hot brothers" in the atmospheres of stars... for them biological life is an absolute "affront"

?

 

Agreed.

 

I wish I knew more books exploring the themes in some detail, believable or less so, no matter. Until about a year ago I had less time for myself due to my duties to Master and, well, since then my schedule freed up for personal reasons and now I've more time so I've been looking for suggestions of books of many kinds and any sort.

 

Would you have some more to share with me haha?

 

(But like I said haha, my little idea doesn't exactly bear weight nor have I thought it out all that much haha. Thanks for your reasoning regarding it haha.)

 

Ooops, just realised the topic's a little derailed. If you have any suggestions of books and the like, may you please send them to me in a message...?

 

(Sorry for derailing the topic haha...)

Edited December 7, 2023 by Idyll

[JimUpdating]

in terms of time experienced, this could be a route for the evolution of human->AI->space explorer. An AI would be able to slow the internal clock rate to deal with the hard physics of coasting between star systems at 1% of light speed. Once a system has a colony, then later AI citizens could travel as electronic copies at light speed. In effect, the combination of Alistair Reynolds, with the Revelation Space universe limited to sub light travel and without the Conjoiner drive to get to high dilation, and the concept of gamma level personalities, combined with an Iain M. Banks style of Minds that act as hosts for visiting personalities. The faster transfer of the later AI citizens could avoid some of the issues of cultural drift, where the parent system would significantly diverge from the colonists who travel to a new system during the centuries of travel, but instead create the potential for a culture shock as a new transmitted AI citizen interacts with the archaic personality/experiences of the AI colonist. The issue of whether a civilization /society would be stable enough to last the few hundred years for the first 0.01c ship to reach the nearest systems could still be a problem.

 

For the alien BDSM https://powauthor.wordpress.com/2022/11/18/keck-the-tarachsian-uncle/ explores the difficulty of how some techniques would adapt to a different species, and https://powauthor.wordpress.com/2022/01/07/spineworms/ may be of interest. However, be careful, some of the other stories by POW head into NC.

[FauxFurry]

The exotic is erotic, so to speak. It is part of the desire to integrate novel genes which may confer new survival benefits to one's bloodline. It is the same thing that draws people's sexual attentions to any non-hominid derived humanoid race in fiction.

[Guest]

On 12/6/2023 at 5:45 AM, Miauzi said:

why hasn't it been here yet?

 

On 12/6/2023 at 3:28 PM, Idyll said:

Space is of a scale so grand;

 I tend to think about Radio/Television transmissions, If I were an Alien Species, all I wanted to know about the planet and all who live there is laid bare for them. Our way of life, our economies, our technical abilities, our love of warmongering, etc., etc. is right there. The ruling councils have most likely put us on the " No Fly List " for a multitude of reasons.

The only way I see any Alien race coming here is for domination ( not the sexy kind ) or extermination. Hell If I were them I would wipe us out for the way we have treated our Planet, the animals we have and are wiping out, and for our ability to wage war on each other. Not just the tech used in war but the ability to turn on our fellow humans and kill them.

Posted below is the miniscule distance our first Radio / Television transmissions have gotten.

 

The itsy bitsy blue dot is how far our radio signals have travelled from Earth - a diameter of about 200 light-years.

 

[Vulkandrache]

27 minutes ago, Sir Bron said:

The only way I see any Alien race coming here is for domination

This assumes that the are superior (which i guess they would be if they could come here).

In most SciFi Aliens are always depicted as technologicaly advanced or with magic-like Psy abilities.

Usualy both. But it doenst have to be that way.

Based on our history it might be hard to imagine but its possible that there are entire civilizations

on other planets that never had the need to develop advanced weapons.

They would still put us on the no-fly-list but for entirely different reasons.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcPqk-O-fD4

 

[Miauzi]

Vor 4 Stunden sagte Vulkandrache:

Dies setzt voraus, dass sie überlegen sind (was meiner Meinung nach der Fall wäre, wenn sie hierher kommen könnten).

In den meisten Science-Fiction-Filmen werden Außerirdische immer als technologisch fortgeschritten oder mit magischen medialen Fähigkeiten dargestellt.

Normalerweise beides. Aber es muss nicht so sein.

Aufgrund unserer Geschichte ist es vielleicht schwer vorstellbar, aber es ist möglich, dass es ganze Zivilisationen gibt

auf anderen Planeten, die nie die Notwendigkeit hatten, fortschrittliche Waffen zu entwickeln.

Sie würden uns immer noch auf die Flugverbotsliste setzen, aber aus ganz anderen Gründen.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcPqk-O-fD4

 

 

You don't need weapons to devastate the Earth or any other planet as a human race that has mastered interstellar space flight - to wipe out at least 90% of all species on it!

As early as the 1950s, there were ideas for drives that would enable space flight at "almost" the speed of light... one of them is the "photon drive" - which basically uses the light quanta themselves as "propellant".

The energy source for this is "total annihilation" - in which matter is caused to react with antimatter. Even the output for a spaceship with a "small" useful mass - i.e. a few crew members - would burn entire continents in an "atomic inferno" from orbit towards Earth!

Not to mention the active "redirection" of boulders from the asteroid or Keuper belt towards planet "Earth"!!

---

All technical tools can be used to build up as well as to destroy - and a civilization can completely "fail" to establish contact even with the best of intentions... I recommend the novel "The Fiasco" by Stanislaw Lem.

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Miauzi

[Idyll]

6 hours ago, Sir Bron said:

 

 I tend to think about Radio/Television transmissions, If I were an Alien Species, all I wanted to know about the planet and all who live there is laid bare for them. Our way of life, our economies, our technical abilities, our love of warmongering, etc., etc. is right there. The ruling councils have most likely put us on the " No Fly List " for a multitude of reasons.

The only way I see any Alien race coming here is for domination ( not the sexy kind ) or extermination. Hell If I were them I would wipe us out for the way we have treated our Planet, the animals we have and are wiping out, and for our ability to wage war on each other. Not just the tech used in war but the ability to turn on our fellow humans and kill them.

Posted below is the miniscule distance our first Radio / Television transmissions have gotten.

 

The itsy bitsy blue dot is how far our radio signals have travelled from Earth - a diameter of about 200 light-years.

 

 

Nah, if one were them one would have differing purposes and stances or lack thereof on myriad matters, "one being them" differs from "one being in their position," it would depend on the culture and overall zeitgeist of these spacefaring beings' society, what their reaction is; they may, as you would, favour a destructive approach, be wholly for it or uncaring; endless are the fathomless' possibilities.

 

Such life-celebrating beings as you describe would perhaps consider even us as worthy of protection - there being an emotional component matching your stance to the decision-making, they wouldn't outright if ever consider cutting us off like ill leaves on plantlife, not unless there is an opposing set of beliefs influencing their politics. As celebration of life can extend to even life affecting its environs and other life, falling in the categories of natural incidences specific to the area given lifeforms are endemic to.

 

Also, it'd be interesting to note that whilst space travelling existences may have achieved the necessary advancements to attain that ability, whilst intelligent in some way, they may not be wise or otherwise more "noble" than we are.

[Miauzi]

Vor 8 Minuten sagte Idyll:

 

Nein, wenn man sie wäre, hätte man in unzähligen Angelegenheiten unterschiedliche Absichten und Standpunkte oder auch keine davon. „Einer ist sie“ unterscheidet sich von „ein Wesen in ihrer Position“, es würde von der Kultur und dem allgemeinen Zeitgeist der Gesellschaft dieser raumfahrenden Wesen abhängen , wie ihre Reaktion ist; Sie mögen, wie Sie es tun würden, einen destruktiven Ansatz bevorzugen, ganz dafür oder gleichgültig sein; endlos sind die unergründlichen Möglichkeiten.

 

Solche lebensfreudigen Wesen, wie Sie sie beschreiben, würden vielleicht sogar uns als schützenswert betrachten – da es eine emotionale Komponente gibt, die zu Ihrer Haltung mit der Entscheidungsfindung übereinstimmt, würden sie niemals in Erwägung ziehen, uns abzuschneiden wie kranke Blätter auf Pflanzen, nicht es sei denn, es gibt gegensätzliche Überzeugungen, die ihre Politik beeinflussen. Da sich die Feier des Lebens auch auf das Leben erstrecken kann, das sich auf seine Umgebung und anderes Leben auswirkt, fällt es in die Kategorien natürlicher Vorkommnisse, die für das Gebiet spezifisch sind, in dem bestimmte Lebensformen endemisch sind.

 

Es wäre auch interessant festzustellen, dass raumreisende Lebewesen zwar die notwendigen Fortschritte erzielt haben, um diese Fähigkeit zu erlangen, sie zwar in gewisser Weise intelligent sind, aber möglicherweise nicht weise oder auf andere Weise „edler“ sind als wir.

 

But that assumes that they followed a similar path as a "technical" civilization... and overcame their crises in a positive way.

Other civilizations... which are biologically and culturally much more distant from us - will hardly be able to find anything of use to them from our television and radio signals... except perhaps what level of technology we have reached.

We still - completely understandably - assume ourselves to be the "navel of the world"... precisely because we don't know any other intelligent species - in order to be able to compare ourselves with them.

(I'm deliberately leaving out the other intelligent animal species here on earth... because that would completely go beyond the scope of the topic... but it was already a topic in the science fiction literature)

The topic "Is knowledge the same as whiteness" has occupied the entire literature as far back as the first recorded epic (Gilgamesh) ... and has of course always been part of "Utopias" ... even Plato with "Atlantis" ... about Thomas More's "Utopia" to Verne, Wells and the many other SFi writers of modern times.

A very well-known example is "The Day the Earth Stood Still"... even as a child in the early 1970s I was able to watch the 1951 film version... I also think the 2008 version is very good.

Planets like the Earth - with such an extensive ecology - are perhaps quite rare in the cosmos... I would like to point out the stabilizing effect of the very large Earth's moon (one could also speak of a twin planet "Earth-Moon" - man take a look at the other size ratios of planets and their moons in your home solar system!)

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Idyll said:

Such life-celebrating beings as you describe would perhaps consider even us as worthy of protection

 

4 hours ago, Miauzi said:

are perhaps quite rare in the cosmos...

Any Civilized (term used loosely) society that does/has done to their world/fellow man should Not be allowed off world so they can spread their disease of pillage. plunder, abuse, murder, throughout the cosmos. Just my opinion.

Aliens are hot Because......

 

   v 

[Idyll]

1 hour ago, Sir Bron said:

Aliens are hot Because......

 

   v 

 

These... May have enhanced past traumas in unexpected ways. ? ?  ?

 

Actually, have you seen Garth Graham's comics? They're really nice, especially the "Polycules of Mars," on the topic of aliens, came out in 2022 and is part of his AstroKnots series - which I wish had more releases haha.

 

Though xenomorphs are hot, maybe not the acid and overall deadliness but you know... I'd pimp a ride on that decadent, smooth and slick black skull.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Idyll said:

I'd pimp a ride on that decadent, smooth and slick black skull.

  Would you now, 

[Idyll]

On 12/24/2023 at 3:47 AM, Sir Bron said:

  Would you now, 

 

BBCranium.

[DiscipleOfWilliamAfton]

Because humans are boring, mindless, and worthless.

[spoonsinger]