johntrine Posted August 25, 2023 Author Posted August 25, 2023 9 minutes ago, anjenthedog said: Unfortunately, crashlogs are not *guaranteed* to be created. Some abnormal terminations or screen freezes seem to avoid logging. When I experience freezes and CTDs, all freezes go without log, and at least half of the "CTD-to-desktop" CTDs do too. It's not optimal, but that's life. What I do when all else fails is begin peeling back the layers of installed mods, removing them in reverse order of their installation (last installed, first uninstalled), then checking with either a very old save from back when the number of mods was countable on one hand, or with a new game. The reason I say last first is because uninstalling mods with intermediary positioning can and often does result in a general reordering of the load order, which can leave save files floundering when they attempt to access info no longer referred to by a given id (when first installed), and thereby result in ctds or other "misbehavior". I also think about answering the question (to myself) of "when the F did this start happening?" and trying to get an idea in my head of the literal when (dates, maybe even time) when things started going wrong. It's often (MOST often, in my own personal experience) the changes we made after or around the time of that memory, so screwing with a mod installed 14 months ago (for example) would likely be chasing the wrong rabbit, if you started noticing the problem "about a month ago or so"... It'd likely be something you did about a month ago or so, give or take a few days or week, right? i tend to do that too. the most bizarre thing is that it seems to not a particular mod doing this but i might seriously have too many mods that is causing some files like dll to load. dont know if there is a fix for that.
traison Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) I have heard of a dll limit in skse, but never seen proof of this; nor does a concept like "too many dll's" exist in winapi - it would be an arbitrary limitation if it exists. I suppose I can have a look, the source code is available afterall. Edit: No limitations that I can see exist in version 2.02.03. Edited August 25, 2023 by traison
chasidrill Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 6 hours ago, johntrine said: bumping for help Boop! What I see... you run the classic crashlogger pre AE (netimmerse))? You should give a try to the updated version https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/59818 with its reader https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/89860 Following previous comments... yeah onedriv might not be installed but windwos might manage specific rights on this. Then you say with MO2 it crashes.... MO2 which uses a virtual file system... maybe the combination doesn't work Something I wonder is : " [SP+178] 0x228196B1330 (char*) "Failed opening file C:\Users\kukre\OneDrive\Documents\My Games/Skyrim Special Edition/SKSE\no-esp.log for writing: too many files open" as if the system was hanging on file access The crashlogs doesn't show any "possible relevant object"... Like if the crash is completely outside of the game last point: SKSE.log: config path = C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\Data\SKSE\skse.ini Geez.... running the game in the windows program file is never a good idea because of files right management, especially with heavy modding Do you run MO2 with admin mode?
johntrine Posted August 25, 2023 Author Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, chasidrill said: Boop! thanks for joining 3 hours ago, chasidrill said: What I see... you run the classic crashlogger pre AE (netimmerse))? You should give a try to the updated version https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/59818 with its reader https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/89860 the first mod i tried, but it doesnt generate a crashlog. it seems to gave loaded fine. 3 hours ago, chasidrill said: Following previous comments... yeah onedriv might not be installed but windwos might manage specific rights on this. i mean... is there any way to "remove safely" the onedrive part and rights and such? 3 hours ago, chasidrill said: Then you say with MO2 it crashes.... MO2 which uses a virtual file system... maybe the combination doesn't work mo2 isnt crashing. the game is. and the game seems to run fine if i disable some (random works since no particular mod is causing this) 3 hours ago, chasidrill said: Something I wonder is : " [SP+178] 0x228196B1330 (char*) "Failed opening file C:\Users\kukre\OneDrive\Documents\My Games/Skyrim Special Edition/SKSE\no-esp.log yep. i turned that mod and the mod that relies on it off and then i got this error --------------------------- Precision.dll --------------------------- Settings.cpp(553): Failed to load settings. This might be an indication of your game being unstable, try installing SSE Engine Fixes. --------------------------- OK --------------------------- and if i disable this mod, a similar error for true directional movement with some settings.cpp failing to load. 3 hours ago, chasidrill said: for writing: too many files open" as if the system was hanging on file access i could try looking for some... methods to force the drive's right to admin/me 3 hours ago, chasidrill said: last point: SKSE.log: config path = C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\Data\SKSE\skse.ini Geez.... running the game in the windows program file is never a good idea because of files right management, especially with heavy modding Do you run MO2 with admin mode? hmmm... should i try and move skyrim to base c drive and see if that changes anything? and yes mo2 runs on admin mode. Edited August 25, 2023 by johntrine
traison Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, chasidrill said: Like if the crash is completely outside of the game That is because it sort of is. The callstack is completely invalid, so who knows where it got the stack from... I mean from the stack obviously but whether its from the correct thread or not no one can tell. Edit: I suppose, if we assume the stack is correct but the callstack was read incorrectly, one can manually construct the callstack from the stack dump. But that's way easier said than done. Edited August 25, 2023 by traison
chasidrill Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, johntrine said: thanks for joining the first mod i tried, but it doesnt generate a crashlog. it seems to gave loaded fine. i mean... is there any way to "remove safely" the onedrive part and rights and such? mo2 isnt crashing. the game is. and the game seems to run fine if i disable some (random works since no particular mod is causing this) yep. i turned that mod and the mod that relies on it off and then i got this error --------------------------- Precision.dll --------------------------- Settings.cpp(553): Failed to load settings. This might be an indication of your game being unstable, try installing SSE Engine Fixes. --------------------------- OK --------------------------- and if i disable this mod, a similar error for true directional movement with some settings.cpp failing to load. i could try looking for some... methods to force the drive's right to admin/me i mean i can move skyrim to base c drive and see if that changes anything. and yes mo2 runs on admin mode. uhm... uhm.... soooooo back to the basic: First.... crashlogger will help if there is an issue with dlls, scripts or animations. if you have a mesh error (a mod overlaping another mesh, or disabling one required by another mod, it won't help) then... - when the crash happens? random, exterior? interiors? combat? when coming near npc? - what is your mod list? do you have some known heavy mods? - Devious devices? - MNC? - SOS? - CVO? - SL? - lightning mod? - SMP or CBPC? - animation list? too many? Fnis? Nemesis? - load order : loot result? any mismatch or error from loot? - xpmsse order (specificaly when using More Nasty Critter) - Does your load order in MO2 (position of mods in the list) and the esp order matches? - if a mod is placed before another in MO2 but the esp loads after another mod that edits the same data, it'll crash. this particularly with NPC edits: a morph file or NPC data is missing, then called by a mod => crash - this is tricky when you have loose files and bsa alltogether, you think it's ok but it's not as the bsa overwrite a mesh or a script but you won't see it. - patches must be placed just after the mod to patch, in case there is another mod that overwrite the same data - wrye bash : any result like "loading before master"? All mods when loading wrie bash are green? no red or yellow? - bashed patch? - sseedit check: any errors ? - ENB? => mods with parallax... or missing parallax data can be a huge mess - papyrus logs : the lasts lines when it crashes might lead to find the issue but you need to ignore the papyrus spam.... not easy I would try: - check with loot with all mod loaded: no errors allowed - check in wrye bash: make a bashed patch (all mods in wrye bash are green or yellow, no red allowed) - animation: no errors in fnis or nemesis - all armors are correctly built, mesh and morphs (tri files) in bodyslides with the proper base body (3ba, himbo, buunp, ...) - load sseedit with all mods : check for errors => it'll show is a mesh is missing or being overlapped or disabled by another mod. if you find nothing blatant then the tedious parts comes.... as explained in the STEP projects - start vanilla with skse through MO2 : if it runs fine, next.... - install / load mods by pack : if runs fine, add some more mods.... when it starts to crash, you have found the nasty pack, then need to explore them one by one - everytime with a new game, loading and old game will call datas or forms that are modified. this can be tedious but.... load order is really important, ie, loading a game with SOS then modifying the load order or just adding a new mod can break it. => when starting a new game, any change? crash is still present? Edited August 25, 2023 by chasidrill
johntrine Posted August 25, 2023 Author Posted August 25, 2023 37 minutes ago, chasidrill said: uhm... uhm.... soooooo back to the basic: First.... crashlogger will help if there is an issue with dlls, scripts or animations. if you have a mesh error (a mod overlaping another mesh, or disabling one required by another mod, it won't help) ok. understood. 37 minutes ago, chasidrill said: then... - when the crash happens? random, exterior? interiors? combat? when coming near npc? - what is your mod list? do you have some known heavy mods? - Devious devices? - MNC? - SOS? - CVO? - SL? - lightning mod? - SMP or CBPC? i have dd, sos and smp 37 minutes ago, chasidrill said: - animation list? too many? Fnis? Nemesis? i disabled a bunch and that didnt fix it. it allowed to activate like 8 more mods, but that's it. 38 minutes ago, chasidrill said: - load order : loot result? any mismatch or error from loot? loot seems to say most stuff is fine (except like 3 esls that i havent touched that say that they may corrupt the save. disabling them did nothing and they were active before when the game worked too. 1 hour ago, chasidrill said: - xpmsse order (specificaly when using More Nasty Critter) dont use mnc 1 hour ago, chasidrill said: - Does your load order in MO2 (position of mods in the list) and the esp order matches? no.... is there a quick way to sync plugin with mod list to check if that fixes it? 1 hour ago, chasidrill said: - if a mod is placed before another in MO2 but the esp loads after another mod that edits the same data, it'll crash. this particularly with NPC edits: a morph file or NPC data is missing, then called by a mod => crash - this is tricky when you have loose files and bsa alltogether, you think it's ok but it's not as the bsa overwrite a mesh or a script but you won't see it. - patches must be placed just after the mod to patch, in case there is another mod that overwrite the same data this is tricky question since recently cao kinda borked and bsa-ed some mod files. i was able to stop it before it got too far.... but... yeah. 1 hour ago, chasidrill said: - wrye bash : any result like "loading before master"? All mods when loading wrie bash are green? no red or yellow? - bashed patch? i dont use wrye bash. 1 hour ago, chasidrill said: - sseedit check: any errors ? just to be sure... how do i initiate a ssedit check? edit- ignore this. saw you mention it at bottom 1 hour ago, chasidrill said: - ENB? => mods with parallax... or missing parallax data can be a huge mess no enb used. 1 hour ago, chasidrill said: - papyrus logs : the lasts lines when it crashes might lead to find the issue but you need to ignore the papyrus spam.... not easy oh yeah... those exist. i forgot about them. now i need to find where they are located and see if i can find anything useful.... which will be a no since i dont know how to read it but maybe i can post it here. 1 hour ago, chasidrill said: I would try: - check with loot with all mod loaded: no errors allowed - check in wrye bash: make a bashed patch (all mods in wrye bash are green or yellow, no red allowed) - animation: no errors in fnis or nemesis - all armors are correctly built, mesh and morphs (tri files) in bodyslides with the proper base body (3ba, himbo, buunp, ...) - load sseedit with all mods : check for errors => it'll show is a mesh is missing or being overlapped or disabled by another mod. i will try them out. and update the thread after i am done. 1 hour ago, chasidrill said: if you find nothing blatant then the tedious parts comes.... as explained in the STEP projects - start vanilla with skse through MO2 : if it runs fine, next.... - install / load mods by pack : if runs fine, add some more mods.... when it starts to crash, you have found the nasty pack, then need to explore them one by one - everytime with a new game, loading and old game will call datas or forms that are modified. i did do that and disabled all the mods that caused ctd a while back. this new ctd is.... just.... new... 1 hour ago, chasidrill said: this can be tedious but.... load order is really important, ie, loading a game with SOS then modifying the load order or just adding a new mod can break it. => when starting a new game, any change? crash is still present? guess i have to match the right with left and see....
chasidrill Posted August 25, 2023 Posted August 25, 2023 1 hour ago, johntrine said: ok. understood. i have dd, sos and smp i disabled a bunch and that didnt fix it. it allowed to activate like 8 more mods, but that's it. loot seems to say most stuff is fine (except like 3 esls that i havent touched that say that they may corrupt the save. disabling them did nothing and they were active before when the game worked too. dont use mnc no.... is there a quick way to sync plugin with mod list to check if that fixes it? this is tricky question since recently cao kinda borked and bsa-ed some mod files. i was able to stop it before it got too far.... but... yeah. i dont use wrye bash. just to be sure... how do i initiate a ssedit check? edit- ignore this. saw you mention it at bottom no enb used. oh yeah... those exist. i forgot about them. now i need to find where they are located and see if i can find anything useful.... which will be a no since i dont know how to read it but maybe i can post it here. i will try them out. and update the thread after i am done. i did do that and disabled all the mods that caused ctd a while back. this new ctd is.... just.... new... guess i have to match the right with left and see.... First, all removal of mod can create a mess, maybe not direct corruption of savegame, but messy... like random crashes.... sync plugins: left panel of MO2 must match right panel (exception made of ESMs By the way, did you check your savegame for errors with fallrimtools https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/5031 Does it shows any errors? Like I said.... testing for bugs and crashes after adding or modifying mods must be done on new games. Your savegames are probably messy now with the diverse modifications you did Main rule for modding: - tries and tries with mods till you find the ones you want to keep - setup and patching all in proper order - newgame start - no modification except maybe update if the mod creator says so. Btw welcome in the modding scene, when you end spending more time patching and finding solution than playing the game.... One said "Elden ring is hardcore and punishing but reward of success is immense" I bet they never touched the modding scene... wait the excruciating moment when "it runs smooth!" and then you close the game satisfied....(lol!)
johntrine Posted October 2, 2023 Author Posted October 2, 2023 i've done it.... i've found the problem AND the solution. but first, here are the links that helped me find the issue and solution. 1) this link pointed me towards a similar issue with actually told what the problem was. it was the "maxstdio open file limit" which was originally 512 and sse engine fixes made it 2048. if you hit that limit, the settings.cpp error shows up. honestly, i have no idea what maxstdio open file limit actually is, and i would love to be enlighted. 2) this link helped me narrow down the core number limit of said maxstdio open file limit and pointed out that due to new updates by windows, we can now increase the limit for it in sse engine fixes' EngineFixes.toml to 8192 and doing so stopped the setting.cpp. does this cause any issues? i dont know? so yeah.... took me long but there it is.
traison Posted October 3, 2023 Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, johntrine said: i have no idea what maxstdio open file limit actually is Last time I heard about this it was a combined number of esp/esm/esl plugins and bsa files. So say 500 plugins + 200 bsa files = ~700. "stdio" usually stands for Standard Input/Output which refers to stdin, stdout, stderr and probably all other file handles currently open (where "file" is not always a physical file on your storage devices). 13 hours ago, johntrine said: due to new updates by windows, we can now increase the limit I've searched for this limit in the past and came to the conclusion that there is technically no limitation to how many file handles a process can have at any given moment in Windows. That is unless you hit the upper limit of the memory space allocated for the HANDLE type which I would assume is a 64 bit number on a 64 bit system i.e. it can hold more files than you have ever seen and probably will ever see. Quote In Linux the default nr of open files can be read with ulimit -n, for me it is 1024, and can be set using sudo ulimit -n 8192. The ulimit -n thing is an arbitrary limitation for limiting resource usage intended for multiuser Linux and Mac (and probably BSD) systems. Its unfortunate that it now seems like Windows has a similar thing, and that it may be something Microsoft is adjusting through patches. I'll make a note for myself to find where this is hidden. Its quite unfortunate as well that Skyrim is keeping file handles open like that. I suppose for bsa files it makes sense, it prevents other programs from changing them while the game is running, but plugins really could be stored in memory. Then again, we should probably also consider that this engine recently had (or still has) the same glitches people were observing in Morrowind 20 years ago - keeping file handles open to plugins would have saved a few MiB's back then which made total sense. A remnant of the past perhaps. Edit: This all rings a bell now. I have forgotten about this. There is no limitation in Windows itself most likely, the limitation is implemented in the framework the game is running on, in this case the CRT: Quote C run-time I/O now supports up to 8,192 files open simultaneously at the low I/O level. Edited October 3, 2023 by traison 1
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