An RPG in 2023 with a mute protagonist???

[Endlesslust]

4 hours ago, Jellyfish505 said:

 

To state the obvious, it is absolutely solved for me because we don't have the same problem.

 

So, it sounds like it'd make more sense to make a silent protagonist and then those who like voiced work could just download a mod to do so, right? After all, the problem isn't shared: While those who prefer a silent protagonist due to the impact a voice would have on most aspects of the game (world reaction, dialogue, personality, character creation) would be hindered by any implementation, those who want the lines read to them can just download any of the different voices they want. 

 

Then everyone is happy because no differing camp of opinion is negatively impacted by the design choice in the same way that a voiced protagonist or voice with silent toggle would be. 

 

To those saying the voice could be edited: That doesn't solve the innate problem with the voiced protagonist, just one part of the problem. There's still the matter of world reaction, the dialogue offered, etc. There's far more to a voice than pitch and volume. There are multiple other aspects like the accent, rate of speech, cultural way of speaking (someone from suburbs vs inner city vs rural vs country). That's not including how people react to it. A toggle or modulator would not satisfy those issues. 

 

That's it for me on the topic though: As DocClox said, it's something people will have to agree to disagree on, otherwise it just goes around and around. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Endlesslust

[DocClox]

20 hours ago, Jellyfish505 said:

To state the obvious, it is absolutely solved for me because we don't have the same problem.

 

To state the obvious, you were leaning very hard on the technical simplicity of muting the player as a means of satisfying both sides. Does this shift in emphasis mean that you accept that a solution for everyone is not so simple as you previously suggested?

 

I'm aware that we do not look for the same things from a Bethesda game, but that doesn't answer the question I asked.

 

[edit]

 

Missing word: "do" -> "do not"

Edited July 17, 2023 by DocClox

[nezkafe]

Voiced protagonists are a pain in the ass for modding. You are in a modding forum so unsurprisingly most people here don't care for it.

[Riggswolfe]

For me personally, I quite like voiced protagonists with one major exception. Games with heavy modding. I believe the voiced protagonist was a major issue for making quest mods for Fallout 4, especially in the beginning and is part of why its modding community was never as strong as Skyrim's despite Fallout 4 allegedly outselling Skyrim. (though I'm sure the 3,000 Skyrim rereleases have changed that.)

 

So, in BGS games, I much prefer silent protagonists because it means quest mods and such will be much easier to make. I also like that we have the full dialogue listed now instead of a short prompt like in Fallout 4. It feels to me like Starfield is going back to their RPG roots where Fallout 4 was lacking in that. I quite enjoy Fallout 4 but it is pretty shallow on the roleplaying front. 

 

For games like Cyberpunk and Mass Effect I quite like voiced protagonists because it works in their cinematic style and Mass Effect, at least, didn't have mod support officially. Cyberpunk does and I'm sure the voiced protagonists have contributed to its lack of quest mods though it may also be in part because of the tools they have.

[DocClox]

2 hours ago, Riggswolfe said:

For me personally, I quite like voiced protagonists with one major exception. Games with heavy modding

 

Well, that's fair. I should perhaps clarify: I'm not against player VA in the general case. If you have a predefined character like Gelralt or Shepard, then voice acting adds a lot.

 

It just sucks big time for Bethesda games, and I'm really glad SF is going to have a silent MC.

[Resdayn]

?‍?Voiced rpg protagonist require a pre defined character to work, who people like.

 

Bethesda failed it last time, and their writing skills.. are lacking to say it. 

 

 

[Riggswolfe]

9 hours ago, DocClox said:

 

Well, that's fair. I should perhaps clarify: I'm not against player VA in the general case. If you have a predefined character like Gelralt or Shepard, then voice acting adds a lot.

 

It just sucks big time for Bethesda games, and I'm really glad SF is going to have a silent MC.

 

I liked the voiced protagonists in Cyberpunk and Mass Effect for sure. Especially Mass Effect since it was such a cinematic game and the VAs did a good job of adjusting their tone to the dialogue choices. I also loved the female VA in Cyberpunk. She did a great job. Fallout 4 I had mixed feelings about. The VAs were pretty good (well, Nora was pretty good) but it made the game feel quite generic in the interactions at times and seriously hampered quest mods at least at first. 

 

I think for Bethesda, silent protagonist is absolutely the way to go both for modding and because their games have characters that are usually much more of a blank slate. (Nate and Nora were their attempt to move away from that and I think going back to silent protagonists is a reaction to how poorly that worked out for them.)

Edited July 21, 2023 by Riggswolfe

[worik]

9 hours ago, Resdayn said:

?‍?Voiced rpg protagonist require a pre defined character to work, who people like.

The only setting where it worked for me was Geralt in the witcher games.

Fallout 4 was ... meh ... 

Maybe AI can help in future games, where the player can shape the voice during character setup like it's done today with skills and body shape?

I would definetely hope for that

[DocClox]

13 hours ago, Riggswolfe said:

Fallout 4 I had mixed feelings about. The VAs were pretty good (well, Nora was pretty good) but it made the game feel quite generic in the interactions at times and seriously hampered quest mods at least at first. 

 

The trouble I had in Fallout 4 was that the VA set a mood and an emotional tone. I mean, this is me, as Nate, thinking to myself on my first run..

 

"Those bastards killed my wife and stole my son. I'm going to track them down and make them pay, But right now, I don't know who I can trust, so I'm going to keep quiet and play my cards close to my chest until I find out who is who."

 

Then I talk to an NPC and Nate opens his big mouth:

 

"Hi! My name is Nate! I was sealed in a Vault! They kidnapped my son but I'm still cheerful! Say, do you need any beds building? I'm always happy to help!"

 

And suddenly, I want to throttle my own character in the game for being a total tosspot.

Edited July 21, 2023 by DocClox

[Miauzi]

1 hour ago, DocClox said:

 

Das Problem, das ich bei Fallout 4 hatte, war, dass es eine Stimmung und einen emotionalen Ton erzeugte. Ich meine, das bin ich, als Nate, der bei meinem ersten Lauf an mir selbst herumbastelt.

 

„Diese Bastarde haben meine Frau getötet und meinen Sohn gestohlen. Ich werde sie aufspüren und dafür bezahlen lassen, aber im Moment weiß ich nicht, wem ich vertrauen kann, also werde ich schweigen und meine Karten so lange ausspielen, bis ich herausgefunden habe, wer wer ist.“

 

Dann spreche ich mit einem NPC und Nate öffnet seine große Klappe:

 

„Hallo! Mein Name ist Nate! Ich wurde in einem Tresorraum eingesperrt! Sie haben meinen Sohn entführt, aber ich bin immer noch fröhlich! Sag mal, brauchst du Betten bauen? Ich helfe immer gerne!“

 

Und plötzlich möchte ich meinen eigenen Charakter im Spiel als totalen Schwachkopf erdrosseln.

 

Is this primarily because of the voice or because Bugdesta simply can't produce a proper game?

Because in a proper game you might still have a few options for choosing how you want to conduct such a dialogue.

It must have been too expensive to produce ... they preferred to concentrate on other rubbish - which then didn't work either.

I would have done without all the settlement building crap - if you had had reasonable choices in a dialogue system as a player-char.

Well - I had put up with the Nora Nate crap 2-3 times in the end - then looked for a possibility - to be able to make another game start with another character - fortunately there is this.

Did the player-char's voice ultimately prevent me from using the game? ... Of course not - it sometimes takes a bit more mental strength to block out this rubbish.

It's like the loud construction machines in the settlement that are tearing up the streets - I can't change that, but I can ignore it.

[Resdayn]

3 hours ago, worik said:

The only setting where it worked for me was Geralt in the witcher games.

Fallout 4 was ... meh ... 

Maybe AI can help in future games, where the player can shape the voice during character setup like it's done today with skills and body shape?

I would definetely hope for that

 

Bioware games had Commander Shepard and Hawke, who both was quite pre defined characters, worked fine.

 

Sadly, I can't really think any more succesful customisable voiced protagonist, who ended up decently popular in rpg-s.

 

I can say two bad examples ?

 

Sole Survivor and Inquisitor from Dragon Age, they both were extremely bland, and hurted more than helped.

 

I'm not sure on AI yet, decent for modding from what I see and has uses, but legally we see how it goes, a not of people in the industry rightfully not thrilled to be replaced 

 

 

[DocClox]

50 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

Is this primarily because of the voice or because Bugdesta simply can't produce a proper game?

 

They could change the voice and the same problem would apply. You'd get someone who just wanted to play a pathologically cheerful eternal boy scout, only to have the VA growl all his lines like Geralt with a three day hangover, and you'd get the same dissonance.

 

50 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

Because in a proper game you might still have a few options for choosing how you want to conduct such a dialogue.

It must have been too expensive to produce ... they preferred to concentrate on other rubbish - which then didn't work either.

 

Well you can do that, certainly but it only works well for a mute protagonist. If you have VA, you need to give the actor some emotional lines to deliver. So, inevitably, you end up writing them a personality and, also inevitably, that's going to clash with some people's character conceptions.

 

I know Ser Jellyfish disagrees with me on this point, but for me Bethesda games work best when they have as neutral a player character as possible. Let the character be a blank canvas onto which we can all project the role we want to play.

 

VA is always going to interfere with that.

 

50 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

Did the player-char's voice ultimately prevent me from using the game? ... Of course not - it sometimes takes a bit more mental strength to block out this rubbish.

It's like the loud construction machines in the settlement that are tearing up the streets - I can't change that, but I can ignore it.

 

It didn't prevent me from playing either. What it did do was make playing a lot less fun. Accuse me of a lack of imagination if you must, but "a lot less fun" doesn't sound like a feature anyone would want in a computer game.

[DocClox]

On 7/3/2023 at 2:47 PM, bjornk said:

 

I hate Nazeem as much as the next guy, but I'd definitely be excited about a game where NPCs can invite me to an activity and I get to follow them for a change.

 

 

Well, the example I used was part of Judy's quest-line in Cyberpunk 2077, so if you haven't looked at it...

[Riggswolfe]

7 hours ago, DocClox said:

 

The trouble I had in Fallout 4 was that the set a mood and an emotional tone. M mean, this is me, as Nate, tinking to myself on my first run..

 

"Those bastards killed my wife and stole my son. I'm going to track them down and make them pay, But right now, I don't know who I can trust, so I'm going to keep quiet and play my cards close to my chest until I find out who is who."

 

Then I talk to an NPC and Nate opens his big mouth:

 

"Hi! My name is Nate! I was sealed in a Vault! They kidnapped my son but I'm still cheerful! Say, do you need any beds building? I'm always happy to help!"

 

And suddenly, I want to throttle my own character in the game for being a total tosspot.

 

I had a huge amount of dissonance with the main quest in Fallout 4. I found it somewhat less with Nora because I think she delivered her lines better than Nate but even so the storyline clashed with what I typically do in Bethesda games. In theory you're supposed to have all this urgency to find your son but I wanted to explore and do side content, tinker with settlements, etc. But my character was constantly worried about her son in dialogue, even if I was 30 hours into the game and hadn't even gone to Diamond City yet. 

 

I like that Starfield's main quest looks like it won't try for super personal and is instead "go find these artifacts!" I won't feel nearly as much disconnect from the story if I do my own thing for a long time.

 

5 hours ago, Resdayn said:

 

Bioware games had Commander Shepard and Hawke, who both was quite pre defined characters, worked fine.

 

Sadly, I can't really think any more succesful customisable voiced protagonist, who ended up decently popular in rpg-s.

 

I can say two bad examples ?

 

Sole Survivor and Inquisitor from Dragon Age, they both were extremely bland, and hurted more than helped.

 

I'm not sure on AI yet, decent for modding from what I see and has uses, but legally we see how it goes, a not of people in the industry rightfully not thrilled to be replaced 

 

 

 

I'd add V from Cyberpunk 2077 to this list, especially female V. She did an excellent job and I never felt like her dialogue responses were "off" for the scene like I sometimes felt in Fallout 4. I'm curious if you played Nate or Nora. In my experience female VAs are almost always better in RPGs. 

[Resdayn]

1 hour ago, Riggswolfe said:

I'd add V from Cyberpunk 2077 to this list, especially female V. She did an excellent job and I never felt like her dialogue responses were "off" for the scene like I sometimes felt in Fallout 4. I'm curious if you played Nate or Nora. In my experience female VAs are almost always better in RPGs. 

 

Right V, they were good too, but cyberpunk felt a bit less rpg to me 

[Gameplayer]

13 hours ago, Resdayn said:

 

Right V, they were good too, but cyberpunk felt a bit less rpg to me 

 

Its still qualifies as RPG, but you really dont have as much wiggle room as you do in Skyrim, Fallout 4.

Playing Witcher makes it even more confined, the whole personality of Garault is pretty well defined and as far as stat destribution you only have specific options for your builds and its not like you can make him go off to be a wizard rather than a Witcher (monster hunter).

 

CDPR's Witcher and Cyberpunk however have much stronger stories, loads of lore behind them, entire p and p games, and many sources that detail the world space besides the video games.  This results in stronger story for sure but you as a player are also far more confined when it comes to it because you are trapped into playing their story rather than building your own characters story.

 

Essentially, its like this

 

Voice Actor's limit your choice?

A lot of people have said yes to that.

So those same people, pick up a game like Cyberpunk, might not like the fact that its not your character, its an established character that has history in a particular series all predefined.

 

It is sort of like trying to sell a batman game as an RPG game and then trying to inflate that maybe with the idea that you have as much player agency as you do in a BGS game.  We would all know that was BS.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Gameplayer

[Resdayn]

2 hours ago, Gameplayer said:

 

Its still qualifies as RPG, but you really dont have as much wiggle room as you do in Skyrim, Fallout 4.

Playing Witcher makes it even more confined, the whole personality of Garault is pretty well defined and as far as stat destribution you only have specific options for your builds and its not like you can make him go off to be a wizard rather than a Witcher (monster hunter).

 

CDPR's Witcher and Cyberpunk however have much stronger stories, loads of lore behind them, entire p and p games, and many sources that detail the world space besides the video games.  This results in stronger story for sure but you as a player are also far more confined when it comes to it because you are trapped into playing their story rather than building your own characters story.

 

Essentially, its like this

 

Voice Actor's limit your choice?

A lot of people have said yes to that.

So those same people, pick up a game like Cyberpunk, might not like the fact that its not your character, its an established character that has history in a particular series all predefined.

 

It is sort of like trying to sell a batman game as an RPG game and then trying to inflate that maybe with the idea that you have as much player agency as you do in a BGS game.  We would all know that was BS.

 

I get people who like voice acting in rpg and find it immersive or cinematic, but really depends what kind of.

 

That immersion dies fast if.. the player character can be anything or anyone, if you get a defined character, it's less an issue.

 

but I get why baldur's gate 3 decided against it.

 

And well let's be real, it was probably a smarter decision after the last try from Bethesda, they can't write really well.

 

It does limit the choices, lines you can say etv, voice acting is very expensive, in certain rpg subgenres, I don't get the reason why they went full va.. one of them died from it literally

[unwashed biomass]

6 hours ago, Resdayn said:

And well let's be real, it was probably a smarter decision after the last try from Bethesda, they can't write really well.

It is not question of bad/good writing. Starfield would loose lots of it's potential even if writing was on CD Red or Obsidian level if it had voiced protagonist.

[Resdayn]

2 hours ago, unwashed biomass said:

It is not question of bad/good writing. Starfield would loose lots of it's potential even if writing was on CD Red or Obsidian level if it had voiced protagonist.

 

Modding wise definetly

[kaxat]

I just came across this topic and was delighted to see the overwhelming support for a voiceless protagonist. This is not an "in 2023" issue. Technical limitations are not a factor. It is just a design choice that all gameplay revolves around.

I wish games with voiced protagonists would not bill themselves as RPGs. Instead calling themselves story-driven or a similar but distinct term. Not that I dislike voiced protagonists. But they are a truly different genre of game. You are not role playing. You are watching a role that was pre written. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I loved watching Geralt and learning about his character and motivations as he talked about them. But that is not role playing. And when I am in the mood for an RPG I am certainly not in the mood for Geralt or Shepherd or any of the other role watching games. They are completely different than an RPG.

 

Fallout 4 is a great example of how muting the protagonist does not fix this issue. There are mods for that. But you still have NPCs react really strange to the written dialogue. If you enable the voice you see why. VA lines will be stated on the verge of tears whilst they had played out in your mind more stoic. The words are the same but the meaning changed. Same goes for sarcasm and intonation. 

 

Muting the protagonist unfortunately does not turn your game into an RPG. A voiced protagonist limits the number of dialogue options we get. It heavily influences the writing and settings the game puts you in. Whereas with an RPG the writers keep in mind the variety of intonations and motivations that players might concoct. The NPC responses and quest lines get written from the ground up to be accommodating of any protagonist. Rather than just the voice acted one. This is the essence of an RPG.

 

As much as I love some games with voiced protagonists they have very limited replayability for me. I tried repeatedly to replay Fallout 4. I can't get more 30 hours in. On the other hand I have lost count of how many times I replayed Skyrim. Each time with a completely different protagonist. Every time with new motivations and feelings and goals. Between that and a new load order it feels like a fresh game. I am excited that Starfield might be more of the same. There have been too few RPGs released in recent years. This is the first game I have looked forward to in as many years.

[Gameplayer]

For sake of completeness,

 

Player/Mod Author made voice packs for SkyrimSE,

 

Dragonborn Voice Over, https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/84329

 

Player Head Tracking and Voice, https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/11993

 

Now for both of those there are hundreds of files to add voice to the silent player character/protag.

Some examples of files you can get for these,

 

Here, https://www.loverslab.com/topic/207018-ciri-voice-pack-for-babo-dialogue-sexlab-approach-dragonborn-voice-over/

 

 

Also, mod authors have given voice to mod files that never had voice for NPC's.

 

Here, https://www.loverslab.com/topic/209431-xvasynth-voice-packs/, 

 

 

And, https://www.loverslab.com/topic/172662-voice-packs-now-available-se-le-a-list-for-your-convenience/

 

 

Quite a lot of player made stuff adding voice to the game and too mods that never had voice files.

 

And how much effort have players done to remove voice, well 1 file really.

In similar discussions players have already totaled the amount of unique downloads and found that the amount of people wanting to alter or add voice files was more than those that were annoyed enough to remove it.

 

Ultimately, how good role playing will be is up to BGS voiced or not, and in the long run I'm sure player voice mods will be quite popular maybe not as popular as naked body mods but it will be in the top 100 if not top 10.

 

Edit, 

I dont actually think I will mind mute protag, and if things play out like they have for Skyrim SE......with voice packs, we have more options.

Though likely Ciri will be the go too option or Serana, dont mind really they are both good VA's.

 

From a modding point of view, why have Fallout 4 modders not altered the player voice or added VA synth voices from popular actresses that they actually like?  Well it may be that, since the voice is already quite good for perhaps a majority of people that no one has gotten around to it.

Also I will point out that since synth is an option there really is no reason why quest modders can not make new voice lines for Nate and Nora in Fallout 4 so such arguments about limits are already false and have been for a number of years now, its just something that has been hammered over and over again until it was fact, but all of that has been surmounted by the modding community for quite some time.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Gameplayer

[kaxat]

1 hour ago, Gameplayer said:

In similar discussions players have already totaled the amount of unique downloads and found that the amount of people wanting to alter or add voice files was more than those that were annoyed enough to remove it.

This is an apples and oranges comparison.

 

The people downloading a mute protagonist mod are not downloading a "Convert FO4 to a pure RPG mod". A mute protagonist does not do this. Ergo why download the mod? It will only make your experience worse.

The people who download a voiced protagonist mod are getting exactly what they bargained for.

 

I do not wish to be argumentative. But one thing has become obvious. Most of you who prefer voiced protagonists truly do not understand what we enjoy about RPGs. It eludes you the degree to which we enjoy writing our own character and motivations. Those who enjoy RPGs get so absorbed in a world it feels like we are there. You are the person experiencing this world. You are ripped out of this illusion the instant a voiced protagonist does something your character would never do. Voices a response wrong or misconstrues the meaning of your dialogue. We are immediately yanked out of the role-playing part of the RPG. Suddenly we are watching the role and trying to under what "our" character meant by their role defying statement. When you are torn from this illusion you are not longer the protagonist. You are just watching the voice actor and trying to understand their motivation. What they say goes. This is an abysmal experience for an RPG. While it is perfect for a cinematic type story telling where you are a mere spectator. In that type of game the protagonist is the product of someone else imagination. Which can be very interesting. But it is not an RPG.

[Gameplayer]

39 minutes ago, kaxat said:

This is an apples and oranges comparison.

 

 

No I would say since it is hard numbers it is more factual based than opinion.

 

40 minutes ago, kaxat said:

The people downloading a mute protagonist mod are not downloading a "Convert FO4 to a pure RPG mod". A mute protagonist does not do this. Ergo why download the mod? It will only make your experience worse.

 

Correct, the whole games story is accounting for a voiced main character saying specific things and doing specific things in specific ways.

 

41 minutes ago, kaxat said:

The people who download a voiced protagonist mod are getting exactly what they bargained for.

 

 

But I want Micheal Dorn, so I can role play as an actual educated black man.

 

42 minutes ago, kaxat said:

I do not wish to be argumentative. But one thing has become obvious. Most of you who prefer voiced protagonists truly do not understand what we enjoy about RPGs. It eludes you the degree to which we enjoy writing our own character and motivations. Those who enjoy RPGs get so absorbed in a world it feels like we are there. You are the person experiencing this world. You are ripped out of this illusion the instant a voiced protagonist does something your character would never do. Voices a response wrong or misconstrues the meaning of your dialogue. We are immediately yanked out of the role-playing part of the RPG. Suddenly we are watching the role and trying to under what "our" character meant by their role defying statement. When you are torn from this illusion you are not longer the protagonist. You are just watching the voice actor and trying to understand their motivation. What they say goes. This is an abysmal experience for an RPG. While it is perfect for a cinematic type story telling where you are a mere spectator. In that type of game the protagonist is the product of someone else imagination. Which can be very interesting. But it is not an RPG.

 

If you were specifically addressing me well, 

This reads to me that there is a very talented sub group of gamers who are the only ones that can truely appreciate a silent protagonist, sort of like enjoying Charlie Chapmin films which were all silent btw!

Also, sure I get that you enjoy playing the game more like a chose your adventure novel but we have Trails in Tainted Space or Champions of Corruption 2.

Sorry its an adult website so decided to tip the hat to some dirty smut here.

 

"You are just watching the voice actor and trying to understand their motivation. What they say goes."

This out of that whole bit up there I can actually agree with, good job.  

Now just to be clear, in all likelyhood even with a mute protagonist in Starfield we will still be stuck in that exact situation its been like that for video gaming for as long as I can remember and well even in pen an paper there are limits to what player can accomplish realistically in most all actual role playing situations.

 

So what is it about video games that actually hits that role playing itch that usually only pen an paper actually scratches.

 

I think having mods for selection of the player voice will be helpful for a lot less skilled role players, including those of us that just can not be buggered, or long time video game players like myself that think wow this is a step backward because everything should have voice if it speaks.

 

Dont get me wrong, I appreciate that you like so many in the thread like to voice act your lines in your head, but in my head my voice does not represent the character I made all the time.

 

My whole comment you quoted was that, majority of gamers do in fact like voiced player character, the majority of mods so far have been about adding voice to the player character, that I believe the reason why Fallout 4 does not have much in alternate voiced lines for the protag is because it exists in the game already, and that because there is a lack of voiced lines for the player there will be a lot of mods addressing this MASSIVE OVERSIGHT.

Yes, oversight.

People are going to address it that way, and there will be mods to correct this.

Thankfully we will likely have all sorts of ethnically/regionally correct voice types to fufill many players wishes that the main character actually represents them or the character they wish to play as.....Well with the exception of kids stuff, that perks parents are forever stuck being white, unless some modder seeks to address this.

I think I want to play as a Hispanic hottie next.

Gotta find some voice lines on Pornhub, to dub for my main character.

[kaxat]

38 minutes ago, Gameplayer said:

 

No I would say since it is hard numbers it is more factual based than opinion.

 

1 apple is the same amount as 1 orange. That is science. Mathematics really. But is 1 apple better than 1 orange? Is 12 apples better than 10 oranges? This is the comparison you are making. And from this trying to claim "fact". The rest of your post is just combative and circuitous reasoning. You do not appear to desire to understand the opinion of those who love RPGs. Just say their opinion has no merit. So I apologize for engaging with you. Remain as confident in your as opinion as you like. I will no longer try to persuade you of the value in other view points.

Edited July 24, 2023 by kaxat

[Miauzi]

Vor 5 Stunden sagte kaxat:

Dies ist ein Vergleich zwischen Äpfeln und Birnen.

 

Die Leute, die einen Mute-Protagonisten-Mod herunterladen, laden keinen „FO4 in einen reinen RPG-Mod umwandeln“ herunter. Ein stummer Protagonist tut dies nicht. Ergo, warum den Mod herunterladen? Es wird Ihre Erfahrung nur verschlimmern.

Die Leute, die einen Mod mit stimmhaften Protagonisten herunterladen, bekommen genau das, was sie erwartet haben.

 

Ich möchte nicht argumentativ sein. Aber eines ist offensichtlich geworden. Die meisten von Ihnen, die gesprochene Protagonisten bevorzugen, verstehen wirklich nicht, was uns an Rollenspielen gefällt. Es entgeht Ihnen, wie sehr es uns Spaß macht, unseren eigenen Charakter und unsere Motivationen zu schreiben. Diejenigen, die Rollenspiele mögen, sind so in eine Welt versunken, dass es sich anfühlt, als wären wir selbst dort. Du bist die Person, die diese Welt erlebt. Sie werden aus dieser Illusion gerissen, sobald ein Protagonist mit Stimme etwas tut, was Ihr Charakter niemals tun würde. Äußert eine falsche Antwort oder interpretiert die Bedeutung Ihres Dialogs falsch. Wir werden sofort aus dem Rollenspielteil des Rollenspiels herausgerissen. Plötzlich beobachten wir die Rolle und versuchen zu verstehen, was „unsere“ Figur mit ihrer rollenfeindlichen Aussage meinte. Wenn Sie dieser Illusion entrissen werden, sind Sie nicht mehr der Protagonist. Sie beobachten lediglich den Synchronsprecher und versuchen, seine Motivation zu verstehen. Was sie sagen, gilt. Für ein Rollenspiel ist das eine miserable Erfahrung. Während es perfekt für eine filmische Geschichte ist, bei der man nur ein Zuschauer ist. In dieser Art von Spiel ist der Protagonist das Produkt der Fantasie eines anderen. Was sehr interessant sein kann. Aber es ist kein Rollenspiel.

 

I always find it funny when people tell me what they think an RPG is...

...and at the same time they tell me that it's only them - who understand how RPGs have to work.

 

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This is now full -> religion or religion substitute

If the voice of your character pulls you out of the "illusion" (out of the immersion) ... then you are a "soft egg" ... that is pure "mimimi".

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