(BETA) Practical Defeat

[fluffyvault]

Recently updated from v0.3.0 to v0.4.5 (I made sure to download the .ESP version of v0.4.5, Pyramid Utils v0.2.1 is also installed) and for some reason, naturally spawned bandits/NPC's are hostile as usual upon encounter, but then when me and my follower are defeated the bandits just wander around, then lose aggro, and return to what they were doing before noticing me. If I spawn bandits in via console it works perfectly fine, me and follower are defeated and the Practical Defeat events play out as expected.

 

Are there any debug function or Practical Defeat logs I can look at/post to figure out this issue? The only one I can find in documents\my games\SKSE is for Pyramid Utils.

[ponzipyramid]

3 hours ago, OthelFermayan said:

I have a perhaps kinda niche issue using this mod. I am playing on a 21:9 monitor. The problem is that the prompts for the struggle minigame appear all over the screen, and often very far away from each other so I often miss that a prompt has even appeared. It's probably not critical to the mod nor the wider audience, but could you possibly limit the width of the screen in which the prompts appear? I have a feeling the game itself shouldn't be that difficult, but I mess it up every time.

 

Acheron Extension Library has configuration options for this, check out its page. Should be under customization.

 

45 minutes ago, fluffyvault said:

Recently updated from v0.3.0 to v0.4.5 (I made sure to download the .ESP version of v0.4.5, Pyramid Utils v0.2.1 is also installed) and for some reason, naturally spawned bandits/NPC's are hostile as usual upon encounter, but then when me and my follower are defeated the bandits just wander around, then lose aggro, and return to what they were doing before noticing me. If I spawn bandits in via console it works perfectly fine, me and follower are defeated and the Practical Defeat events play out as expected.

 

Are there any debug function or Practical Defeat logs I can look at/post to figure out this issue? The only one I can find in documents\my games\SKSE is for Pyramid Utils.

 

Can you post an Acheron log from a time PD seems to have failed (should be in the same folder as the Pyramid Utils log)? There's a chance it was simply not started.

[fluffyvault]

21 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

Can you post an Acheron log from a time PD seems to have failed (should be in the same folder as the Pyramid Utils log)? There's a chance it was simply not started.

Here's a pastebin link of the Acheron log when it fails: https://pastebin.com/YvPust77

 

Seems like it's not PD failing to register anything, but just how I have PD and Yamete Kudasai setup together. Whats the proper way to set PD and YK up together so that PD is what handles humanoid defeat and YK handles creature defeats? Currently in Acheron, I just have the two set to a weight of 50/50, with all the human x human event options unticked, and only the creature related events checked in YK's MCM.

Is there a 'creatures only' tag I have to add to YK's Acheron config file or something?

 

EDIT:
For now I reinstalled YK, and it seems to be behaving properly now both on my own and with followers. I changed the weights to 100 for PD and 1 for YK, so PD will happen almost every defeat encounter with human NPC's, and rarely with YK, and YK should always happen with creatures only since PD is tagged as human only for Acheron.

 

If theres a better/more proper way to set the two up so that YK is told to handle exclusively creatures & humanoid creatures, it would be much appreciated to know what this way is. I can edit the Acheron config for YK, I just have no clue what the valid race-conditions it uses are.

Edited March 3 by fluffyvault

[nothing2lose]

just test it out, seems like some of the babo road encounter doesn't work with pd especially everything that related to pc getting defeated, is there a work around for both to be working together? or maybe a patch in the future? since babo dialogue currently the most well maintained SL mod and receive constant update

Edited March 4 by nothing2lose

[Kristus Kringle]

I want to say, "Well done!" I've tried every defeat style mod but kept going back to the original. Your mod just works from the get-go, level 1, first fight, it worked. Thank you. 

[MysticDaedra]

How do you disable crawling after completing a defeat scenario? I was rescued by a good Samaritan, but my character is still crawling everywhere.

[Vitol]

So I got robbed, killed the bandits, and they dont have my stuff? There is a marker in the middle of the room but nothing is there. It doesnt disappear or complete when I go near it.

 

Is there any way I can get my stuff back through console? If I abandon through MCM it says I lose everything.

 

Would be nice if there was an option for a dropped bag like Shadow Of Skyrim, or an MCM menu to grab items from for debugging purposes.

 

I dont have a log, but Ill turn on logging now and if it replicates Ill post it.

 

This is on SSE 1.5.97

Edited March 13 by Vitol

[Kanlaon]

Hello,

The chances for devious devices it seems cannot be changed

  

Example:

...

elseIf a_option == OID_TightenChance
        MakeChanceSlider(RestraintsManager.TightenChance, 100)
    elseIf a_option == OID_JamChance
        MakeChanceSlider(RestraintsManager.JamChance, 100)

...

 

MakechancesSlider expects a float in the range 0.0 to 1.0 as parameter (?), which then is multiplied by 100 ?

 

Regards

 

 

[sorrowsmith]

I've been using PD with the various events for a while now, and it generally works great.  Last night I encountered a funny issue... in a ranged battle with a mage, My last shot kill the mage at the same time as his last Ice spike put me in defeat state.... PD robbery started (although nothing was taken because robber was dead), and no bindings/hogtie happened because attacker was dead.  My character eventually regnerated enough health to get up, and on looting the mage the PD Robbery quest completed. However, after this, other mobs would no longer aggro on me.  I ran around for maybe 30 minutes encountering wolves, bandits, etc and nothing would aggro.  

[ponzipyramid]

On 3/11/2024 at 2:34 AM, MysticDaedra said:

How do you disable crawling after completing a defeat scenario? I was rescued by a good Samaritan, but my character is still crawling everywhere.

 

That should've happened automatically, I'll look into that.

 

On 3/13/2024 at 3:25 AM, Vitol said:

So I got robbed, killed the bandits, and they dont have my stuff? There is a marker in the middle of the room but nothing is there. It doesnt disappear or complete when I go near it.

 

Is there any way I can get my stuff back through console? If I abandon through MCM it says I lose everything.

 

Would be nice if there was an option for a dropped bag like Shadow Of Skyrim, or an MCM menu to grab items from for debugging purposes.

 

I dont have a log, but Ill turn on logging now and if it replicates Ill post it.

 

This is on SSE 1.5.97

 

Sounds like the bandit despawned. This is somewhat of a Skyrim bug. I'm working on an MCM option to recover stuff in emergency scenarios. I like the bag idea. Does Shadow have issues with clipping though i.e. the bag being inaccessible?

 

On 3/14/2024 at 10:49 AM, Kanlaon said:

Hello,

The chances for devious devices it seems cannot be changed

  

Example:

...

elseIf a_option == OID_TightenChance
        MakeChanceSlider(RestraintsManager.TightenChance, 100)
    elseIf a_option == OID_JamChance
        MakeChanceSlider(RestraintsManager.JamChance, 100)

...

 

MakechancesSlider expects a float in the range 0.0 to 1.0 as parameter (?), which then is multiplied by 100 ?

 

Regards

 

 

 

Thanks, will be fixed in the next update.

 

22 minutes ago, sorrowsmith said:

I've been using PD with the various events for a while now, and it generally works great.  Last night I encountered a funny issue... in a ranged battle with a mage, My last shot kill the mage at the same time as his last Ice spike put me in defeat state.... PD robbery started (although nothing was taken because robber was dead), and no bindings/hogtie happened because attacker was dead.  My character eventually regnerated enough health to get up, and on looting the mage the PD Robbery quest completed. However, after this, other mobs would no longer aggro on me.  I ran around for maybe 30 minutes encountering wolves, bandits, etc and nothing would aggro.  

 

Someone else reported something similar a couple pages back. I'm working on defeat cancelling.

Edited March 15 by ponzipyramid

[Kanlaon]

I forgot there was also a "problem" with the Goldstealamount, as it is implemented now either nothing or all is robbed because

MakeValue... was used in MCM.

 

Function RobGold(Actor akVictim, Actor akAggressor = none)
    if !ShouldRobGold
        return
    endIf

    int currGoldAmt = akVictim.GetItemCount(GoldBase)
    Util.LogInfo("Stealing gold " + (currGoldAmt * GoldStealAmount))

    akVictim.RemoveItem(GoldBase, (currGoldAmt * GoldStealAmount) as int, !ShowRobbedItem, akAggressor)
EndFunction

 

I will send you the changes I have made for private usage.

[Vitol]

On 3/15/2024 at 4:22 PM, ponzipyramid said:

 

Sounds like the bandit despawned. This is somewhat of a Skyrim bug. I'm working on an MCM option to recover stuff in emergency scenarios. I like the bag idea. Does Shadow have issues with clipping though i.e. the bag being inaccessible?

 

 

It does, they use one of the big leather backpack mod models and a torch for a better visual aid, but they do sometimes get a little underground. You can tcl to get em or sometimes Better Third Person Selection will grab them, but they have an MCM backup system as well so you can always grab stuff you feel was lost unfairly. But most of the time theyre just sitting there waiting for ya.

 

My understanding is they spawn the bag with your loot on your ragdolls position before teleport.

 

Edited March 19 by Vitol

[shrtjsrtj]

PD: 0.4.5

Acheron: 1.4.2.0

Skyrim version: GOG 1.6.659

Sexlab: 1.65 GOG

 

This could be an Acheron issue, I have no idea.

 

Surrendered to bandits multiple times and none of them have schlongs when using The New Gemtleman, they get them fine if I click on them and type "removeallitems" and other mods give schlongs when they start Sexlab scenes.

 

I get the freezing that locks out almost everything that others mentioned with later versions of Acheron, but it also happens. It's less often with 1.4.2.0, but with later versions it was almost every event. Others on the Nexus have posted with the same problem, so this is a pretty scuffed test.

 

What I did see looks great though, it's fast and some of the future plans sound pretty awesome.

[ponzipyramid]

2 hours ago, shrtjsrtj said:

PD: 0.4.5

Acheron: 1.4.2.0

Skyrim version: GOG 1.6.659

Sexlab: 1.65 GOG

 

This could be an Acheron issue, I have no idea.

 

Surrendered to bandits multiple times and none of them have schlongs when using The New Gemtleman, they get them fine if I click on them and type "removeallitems" and other mods give schlongs when they start Sexlab scenes.

 

I get the freezing that locks out almost everything that others mentioned with later versions of Acheron, but it also happens. It's less often with 1.4.2.0, but with later versions it was almost every event. Others on the Nexus have posted with the same problem, so this is a pretty scuffed test.

 

What I did see looks great though, it's fast and some of the future plans sound pretty awesome.

 

Lack of schlongs would be a TNG issue and yeah freezing is Acheron. Not much I can do from the PD side unfortunately.

 

Those other mods aren't actually equipping them, it's tng spawning them on strip. SOS has similar issues with random enemies.

 

Scrab is working on some fixes but you can try out andb's experimental fixes: https://github.com/AndbGame/Acheron/releases/tag/experimental_5

Edited March 19 by ponzipyramid

[shrtjsrtj]

On 3/20/2024 at 2:19 AM, ponzipyramid said:

Scrab is working on some fixes but you can try out andb's experimental fixes: https://github.com/AndbGame/Acheron/releases/tag/experimental_5

 

That fixed the camera freezing and control lockouts with GOG 659, thank you.

 

Everything seems to work now except for an occasional issue, where after the I start to crawl I don't move. Instead I can move around like a camera, can see my character frozen in a crawl animation, the bandits follow the camera as if were me and when rape or release happens it happens where the camera was last. I went through dozens of defeats, farming the same bandits over and over with the occasional reload and saw this maybe 3 times.

 

This is so fast and clean, love it.

[Argonauz]

I have a problem and am wondering did anyone had the same like me so it can help me ?

When the defeat starts, 1 bandits just put me on the ground and ties me forever, while i struggle and the rest of enemies just stand around watching, clapping and laughing, and it goes on forever.

[ponzipyramid]

4 hours ago, Argonauz said:

I have a problem and am wondering did anyone had the same like me so it can help me ?

When the defeat starts, 1 bandits just put me on the ground and ties me forever, while i struggle and the rest of enemies just stand around watching, clapping and laughing, and it goes on forever.

 

Stuck scenes/actors will be addressed in the next update.

[Silvain]

Good to hear, I have the same issue with almost every "robbed" event. They just circle clap around my bound character and are stuck in an endless loop. 

[no_way]

Finally decided to update to 1.6.1170 and everything seems to be working except PD....  It crashes on the main menu if I have it in my load order.  Both 0.4.5 and 0.4.2.  Any idea why?

[199 10 10 3]

few questions, what is the intended behavior of regular release/rescued/left for dead?

from what I can guess, regular release just lets out you right next and then you have to leave on your own, rescued spawns you in town and left for dead somehwere random in the wild? Also, what is quick defeat supposed to do? what is the remembrance threshold for? Also, it seems that some NPCs will just fast forward you into some random place nearby no matter what you do, but I can't tell if this is intended behavior or not. Seems to happen when you get downed by OldPeopleRace. 

[ponzipyramid]

28 minutes ago, no_way said:

Finally decided to update to 1.6.1170 and everything seems to be working except PD....  It crashes on the main menu if I have it in my load order.  Both 0.4.5 and 0.4.2.  Any idea why?

 

I'm guessing your Acheron isn't up to date.

 

9 minutes ago, 199 10 10 3 said:

from what I can guess, regular release just lets out you right next and then you have to leave on your own, rescued spawns you in town and left for dead somehwere random in the wild?

 

Yep.

 

9 minutes ago, 199 10 10 3 said:

Also, what is quick defeat supposed to do? what is the remembrance threshold for?

 

I keep forgetting to add hints (it's super tedious). Quick defeat initiates if you are defeated by the same group of enemies soon after the first time as determined by the remembrance threshold. It's primarily intended to prevent cases where you keep getting downed by the same group over and over again. It'll skip the events and usually start a remote release (rescued, left for dead, etc.) that moves you somewhere you won't be downed again. 

 

11 minutes ago, 199 10 10 3 said:

Also, it seems that some NPCs will just fast forward you into some random place nearby no matter what you do, but I can't tell if this is intended behavior or not. Seems to happen when you get downed by OldPeopleRace. 

 

Acheron (the mod PD is built on top of) can start up other outcomes if the conditions required to run PD aren't met. If you're being downed by non-hostile enemies (like OldPeopleRace) you're likely seeing a built in Acheron consequence.

[199 10 10 3]

Ah I see. Thank you very much. It seems that practical defeat is not an option for an outcome only for being downed by "Hostile" in the drop down menu for viewed events, is this intended? If this is the case, are there any intentions to expand this to Civilian and Guards? 

Edited April 1 by 199 10 10 3

[sorrowsmith]

Loving the mod! Any thoughts about adding falmer/draugr related outcomes in future? One idea might be having the player character left in a falmer nest or draugr infested ruin, as an alternative to regular release or left for dead.  After some amount of attention from the beasty boys, THEN leave the player outside the cave/ruin/nest , either with or without restraints, gear etc. 

[Dambldor22]

can someone explain the main differences between baka defeat, naked defeat and this? 
In short.
Baka defeat - light scripts for classic defeat
Naked defeat is bdsm-oriented.
Practical defeat - includes events other than sex (acheron ref) and does everything the same in terms of...well...defeat?
Did I miss something?

Edited April 8 by Dambldor22

[Nbd42]

Surrender hotkey CTD every time without fail. Failing the responses leads to getting tied up but nothing else happens. 

Any clues?