Random CTD ¿Something wrong with physics?

[furel]

Hello, I am experiencing random CTDs with no consistency. Every time I enter a cell, I may or may not have a CTD, even when loading a previous saved game and entering the same cell. Also, entering a cell which I didn't previously have a CTD can cause one. I have no clue what is happening.

The crash logs generated by NetScriptFramework indicate that tbbmalloc.dll is the cause of the crashes, and that the crashes are related to a skeleton node. I have read that tbbmalloc.dll is related to the memory used by the game, so maybe something is not configured correctly and it is causing a memory overflow?

I have attached the crash files. If someone could take a look at them and help me, I would really appreciate it. If not, the next step is to uninstall the game and forget about it..

 

 

Crash_2023_4_29_17-10-0.txt Crash_2023_4_29_17-33-38.txt Crash_2023_4_29_17-47-12.txt Crash_2023_4_29_18-38-41.txt Crash_2023_4_30_18-13-10.txt Crash_2023_5_3_23-19-7.txt Crash_2023_5_3_23-58-30.txt Crash_2023_5_4_0-17-36.txt Crash_2023_5_4_12-13-33.txt

[traison]

That's a mess. You have some external factor causing issues.

 

17-10-00 Probably an animation associated with some furniture.
17-33-38 BodyBuildersMorphEnchanting.psc somehow triggered a memory allocation error.
17-47-12 Unknown.
18-38-41 Most likely another memory allocation error while loading a nif.
18-13-10 Most likely another memory allocation error caused by animation functions.

...

 

First thing I would do is make sure tbbmalloc.dll is not a proxy library for some mod. Next I'd start simplifying the setup, start by getting rid of non-essential mods containing dlls.

 

You may also consider disabling crash logging in .net and getting this. It seems to produce easier to read logs (would (Edit: probably) save me time having disassemble tbbmalloc), and doesn't hide the native exception.

Edited May 4, 2023 by traison

[furel]

51 minutes ago, traison said:

First thing I would do is make sure tbbmalloc.dll is not a proxy library for some mod

Thanks for your response. How I know which one do that?

You say that are an external factor messing with the game, could be a windows security shit?

Also, I install Crash Logger and it made this (No changes in the mod list, yet):

crash-2023-05-04-11-40-10.log

Edited May 4, 2023 by furel

[traison]

1 hour ago, furel said:

Thanks for your response. How I know which one do that?

 

Engine Fixes' plugin preloader I would assume might be one of the most common, but there could be others.

 

1 hour ago, furel said:

You say that are an external factor messing with the game, could be a windows security shit?

 

You can't trust or depend on anything in Windows starting with Win10. It changes your settings, applications and drivers and updates whenever it wants. Win10 and onwards would qualify for trojan, spyware, keylogger and ransomware labels if it was up to me to grade it. However in this case, unless you installed the game in the Program Files directory I would say its not that likely.

[furel]

1 hour ago, traison said:

Engine Fixes' plugin preloader I would assume might be one of the most common, but there could be others.

Do you suggest getting rid of Engine Fixes? It doesn't seem to "fix" anyway.

[traison]

19 minutes ago, furel said:

Do you suggest getting rid of Engine Fixes?

 

Permanently? No.

[furel]

Well, I manage to reduce the CTD by disabling, updating and enable others dll that try to fix things . I still having some CTD here and there, but at least now is more playable.

 

I let here the last Crash logs generated in case of there is something it can point to a issue.

 

Now I'm going to reduce mods, any help in this direction cold be handy too. Because I can think that a mod shouldn't have a big impact on the performance or despite not being compatible with other mod it can cause problems. The list of the mods I have are in the crash logs, if any one wants to help with that and want a more detailed list or isolated, ask me and I would publish it.

crash-2023-05-05-11-31-05.log crash-2023-05-05-12-17-19.log crash-2023-05-05-12-47-47.log crash-2023-05-05-13-56-42.log crash-2023-05-05-15-10-32.log

[traison]

Send me the tbbmalloc.dll file in your skyrim directory. There's something weird going on here.

 

Eidt: or, compare the md5 checksum of your copy to mine and if it doesn't match, consider reinstalling the plugin preloader from engine fixes:

881abb86de4ec2d17b4985137a252038  .\tbbmalloc.dll

Edited May 5, 2023 by traison

[furel]

What? It should be the same. (Could a virus infect the file?) I don't know. I let you the file here just for knowing what is happening and I re-install the preloader any way.

 

tbbmalloc.dll

 

Edit: I download the plugin preloader from Nexus (here) and I checked the md5 whit Winmd5free and it doesn't match either with the md5 code you provide, I'm downloading from the wrong place?

 

Edit2: Searching through my files I found a tbbmalloc.dll from a Creation Kit Fixes (Link to Nexus) that is matching your checksum. Now I'm confused, whitch one I should use?

Edited May 5, 2023 by furel

[traison]

10 minutes ago, furel said:

Could a virus infect the file?

 

Yes, but a virus is not going to be interested in crashing your Skyrim. Any competent virus these days will either be ransomware or stay as hidden as possible to maximize monetary gain. Anyhow, this file you sent me is not the engine fixes plugin preloader, the checksum is different:

 

1dbbfb2832765208c40da9012a275a66  .\tbbmalloc.dll

 

The offsets from the crash logs do make sense now though so that's good. Anyhow I'm not going to look into this any further until you test with the proper engine fixes preloader, I have a feeling that's why its crashing.

[furel]

57 minutes ago, traison said:

The offsets from the crash logs do make sense now though so that's good. Anyhow I'm not going to look into this any further until you test with the proper engine fixes preloader, I have a feeling that's why its crashing.

It seems I edit my post and don't see your response, thats is what I found.

 

Downloaded the plugin preloader from Nexus (here) and I checked the md5 whit Winmd5free and it doesn't match either with the md5 code you provide. Searching through my files I found a tbbmalloc.dll from a Creation Kit Fixes (Link to Nexus) that is matching your checksum.
Now I'm confused, whitch one I should use?

 

Edit: Well I going to try the CK Fixes files, when I had results I tell you.

Edited May 5, 2023 by furel

[traison]

Ah my bad, forgot Creation Kit fixes used that file as well. It could be worth a try, I mean the crashes do occur in that file afterall. Otherwise its back to the drawing board.

[coolfreaky]

just my 2 cents may be nothing and might be worth to check as your crash log is pointing on the skeleton .

did you check that xpmse is the right version for your game version ? ( may be reinstall it )

does any mod is adding a skeleton that is overwriting the xpmse one ? ( verify with your mod manager )

 

sorry for the nuisance if it is already done .

[traison]

12 hours ago, coolfreaky said:

sorry for the nuisance if it is already done .

 

Ideas always welcome if you ask me. The reason why I didn't suggest to pursue any of the script, animation, mesh, skeleton etc. issues was that the logs were too random. Usually when random logs like these appear there's some external factor messing with the game. Be it some fps/temp/chat overlay, Windows Defender or some other security suite. The only thing that really caught my attention here is that most crashes blamed the same file: tbbmalloc.dll. Even though the callstack leading up to the memoryspace of tbbmalloc was somewhat random, that was not random enough to fit the description of a random crash as it were, a weird mix of concepts there. Still I'm blaming an external factor, or some incompatible or badly made skse plugin. Any external app with sufficient permissions and any internal skse plugin have the capability to overwrite any byte anywhere within the game's memory, that's most likely what we're looking at here.

 

Edit: I mean the most obvious answer here is that furel's tbbmalloc.dll is incompatible, but there's a couple of issues with that: 1) if tbbmalloc handles all/most memory allocation, you wouldn't even see the first frame of the intro video before the game was dead. 2) if the engine/creationkit fixes plugin preloader was incompatible, it wouldn't be just furel having these crashing issues.

Edited May 6, 2023 by traison

[furel]

56 minutes ago, traison said:

Be it some fps/temp/chat overlay, Windows Defender or some other security suite.

?
If my tbbmalloc.dll is tecnically raight, (it comes from the main file of the fix). I starting to suspect that is in deed an external cause. 

I have my Skyrim.exe in the following root: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition
I use MO2 and the exe is located in: "D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\Mod Organizer 2\ModOrganizer.exe"

And the mods are installed in "D:\MO\Skyrim\mods"

 

I added an exception to Windows defender to the .exe of MO2 and the folder were is installed and at the .exe itself.

As for SKSE plugins now I have active in this order:
+JContainers SE

+Fuz Ro D-oh - Silent Voice

+Animation Motion Revolution

+skse scripts

+Address Library for SKSE Plugins

+powerofthree's Tweaks

+powerofthree's Papyrus Extender

+NPC AI Process Position Fix - NG

+PrivateProfileRedirector SE - Faster game start (INI file cacher)

+Skyrim Priority SE - skse plugin+SSE Engine Fixes (skse64 plugin)

+SSE Display Tweaks

+Papyrus Tweaks NG

+ConsoleUtilSSE

 

May be I have to put an exception in Windows Defender on the folder of the game and tbbmalloc.dll? It could be a some shit off administrator permissions?

 

[traison]

28 minutes ago, furel said:

May be I have to put an exception in Windows Defender on the folder of the game and tbbmalloc.dll? It could be a some shit off administrator permissions?

 

That wouldn't be the first time it solved a weird problem like this, however my understanding was that it only applies when the game is installed in the Program Files directory. Worth a try though, not going to cost you many seconds to test it. If it doesn't change the situation any, you can always remove the exception (which I would recommend you do).

 

Adding an exception for the game directory should be enough.

[furel]

@traison I made a few test, with tbbmalloc from EngineFixes I had two crashes on the same spot, after choosing the Thalmor Embassy start whit LAL, I spawn, the titles from the starter quests apper and crashes the game.
Whit tbbmalloc from CK Fix I have no issues on that spot, however on the scene of Rovvig execution on Solitude crashes, the two first logs happens on the same point, while the girl is complaining, the tirth one happened right after the head was choped. (I have to say I found that High Poly NPC wasn't updated and had a decapitated head fix). Fourth log was just entering the Inn in Solitude.

I return again to the EngineFixes files and the log no.3 crashes again on the same spot as the two first CK fix logs. The last log was at exiting from the embassy to Skyrim.
It seems to be more stable with the tbbmalloc from CK fix, but still unconsistent.

crash-tbbmalloc_CKFix-01.log crash-tbbmalloc_CKFix-02.log crash-tbbmalloc_CKFix-03.log crash-tbbmalloc_CKFix-04.log crash-tbbmalloc_EngineFix-01.log crash-tbbmalloc_EngineFix-02.log crash-tbbmalloc_EngineFix-03.log crash-tbbmalloc_EngineFix-04.log

[traison]

If I were you I would not waste time on tbbmalloc. This issue is too random.

 

Like I suggested in my first post, simplify your setup. You're not making this any easier on yourself by having cbp enabled for instance. I mean do you really need floppy dongs while debugging this issue? These would be the first to go, if it was up to me:

 

AnimationMotionRevolution.dll (What is this? Most likely not needed.)
cbp.dll (...)

CrosshairRefEventsFix.dll (Not needed here. Game works fine without.)

DeviousDevices.dll (Getting tied up is pointless when the game is going to crash anyways.)

DynamicCollisionAdjustment.dll v1.0.1 (Not needed here. Game works fine without.)

hdtSMP64.dll (Don't need moving funbags when trying to solve this.)

ImprovedCamera.dll (Not needed here. Game works fine without.)

MaxsuAIProcessFix.dll v1 (Not needed here. Game works fine without.)

PriorityMod.dll (CPU priority, or what? most likely not needed.)

RecursionFPSFix.dll v1.1 (What is this? A lot of things in this game is bound to the fps, it's generally not a good idea to mess with it.)

SexLabpp.dll v0.0.1 (Not seen anything positive about SL plus yet, besides you got no use for this when the game is crashing.)

SSEDisplayTweaks.dll v0.5.12 (Good idea on paper, potential to cause massive problems.)

zzEstrusUtil.dll (Don't need tentacles when debugging this.)

[furel]

On 5/8/2023 at 12:05 AM, traison said:

f I were you I would not waste time on tbbmalloc. This issue is too random.

Almost everything you mentioned is from Skyrim SE for Beginners, so I guessed that it wasn't harmful.

 

Crashes usually happen when there is a change of cell, mostly when an NPC spawns (or at least, that's what I assume). While I was testing, I frequently experienced micro stops, lasting less than a second but enough to scare me, until one of them eventually caused a crash.

 

So I'm thinking that the problem could be that my computer is not capable of handling all the things I have installed, and/or I have something misconfigured. Between mods, physics calculations from SMP, and other elements of the game itself, it seems that the game is unable to read memory or access the files in time, resulting in crashes.

Seen this, I removed all the things you point and all the things that add physics as far I know, and it got worse, I guess I removed something needed for a some mod.

 

So I dissabled everithing and I'm going to stick to this guide Mod Organizer 2 & Other tools - From zero to "Hey Sexlab is working!" and test. If anything goes wrong I will post it.

[traison]

1 hour ago, furel said:

Seen this, I removed all the things you point and all the things that add physics as far I know, and it got worse, I guess I removed something needed for a some mod.

 

That's likely yes if you didn't start a new game. Some dlls could have tie-ins with papyrus, papyrus scripts get baked into the save file. Some dlls do things to the game that cause crashes of their own when they're removed mid-playthrough.

 

The main focus would be to change any pattern there may have been in the crashing. It doesn't matter if removing the dlls turned your screen purple or made everyone naked if it fixed the crashing.