SkyUI depending on SexLab

[MiyuHogosha]

Well, subj.

 

LOOT and mod organizers using it consider that SkyUi should be loaded the last, pretty much after all mods using SL framework.

 

As well as they force XMPSSE to the first lines.

 

While the latter can be fixed by setting dependencies, the former cannot. Mod organizers simply decline reordering, claiming that SkyUI and SexLab are in cyclic dependency. Setting indices manually only locks up further sorting. Did devs accidently considered as SexLAb may install  Papyrus Utils. then SL should go first or something?

 

Vague optimized order:

 

- USSEP

- (any other patches changing base game, like Weightless).

- FNIS

- SkyUI

- UIExtensions

- Race menu

- (Race menu plugins)

- (body mods)

- (skin mods

- (follower mods)

- SexLab

- (Animation mods, HOC, MNC )

- SL Tools

- SL Aroused Mods

- SL Aroused Creatures

- SL Creature Framework

- SL Animation Loader

- ZAZ

- SL Defeat

- SOS Lite

- XMPSE   (Must be after SOS, or SOS will not work)

- (fluff)

 

Vortex 1.7.8 practically reverses it, with SkyUI, CBBE, FNIS on bottom and XMPSE, SL Defeat and SexLab on top

Edited March 19, 2023 by MiyuHogosha

[Just Don't]

The only way to force a specific order for plugins is by making a mod the master file to another, this is done when your mod requires records from another mod. SkyUI and Sexlab aren't master files of each other. SL requires SkyUI functionality, but it doesn't force any specific order between the 2 mods. The other way to force a particular loadorder is with sorting rules, the sorting LOOT does doesn't force any specific order between SkyUI and SL. There are also custom rules which are added by the user so be careful you aren't trying to bruteforce your way into a "solution" here by creating new sorting rules.

 

Because the truth is Sexlab is an esm file, the game needs to load these mods first. SkyUI is an esp file which must be placed after all the esm and esm-flagged files in your loadorder. You can't do anything about this, it's how the game works and it's what's supposed to happen.

 

Also, since you mention XPMSSE, the thing that shouldn't be overwriten is the skeleton.nif file inside your meshes folder, not the XPMSE.esp in your loadorder. That's how you ensure your game is using the XPMSSE skeleton, not by forcing XPMSE.esp later in your loadorder.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Just Don't

[MiyuHogosha]

22 hours ago, Just Don't said:

Because the truth is Sexlab is an esm file, the game needs to load these mods first. 

 

 SL requires SkyUI functionality, but it doesn't force any specific order between the 2 mods.

 

As far as game progresses, there is no strict order between unrelated .esm, esl and esp files is required. CK's load order shows that actually. It could be in times of Oblivion or vanilla Skyrim with limited resources. Difference is in content of modules and order of activation. _related_ .esp should go after .esm, that's true, in order to reference content of .esm. The _basic_ content which doesn't have pre existing dependencies can go into .esm.

Technically to be fully AE-compatible, SexLab should fall apart into an .esm and .esp. But we still have vanilla .esm file created by tools for Skyrim  LE, which is worst-case scenario for AE game.

 

 There is no strict requirement usually to have an MCM enabled mod be dependant on SkyUI, but that only if that settings part. SexLab mods do _everything_ through MCM,  e.g. work with JContainer, exchange settings between themselves, register each other , etc. 

 

From SkyUI guys: "any mod of plugin using SkyUI 5.2 should be loaded after".

 

If SkyUI loaded after it looks like that, judging by debug logs:

 

1) every mods loads and fails to initialize. Especially Animation Loader, and Aroused Creatures, which results in huge slow down. The order between them is also essential, even though they aren't masters to each other.

 

2) SkyUI loads

 

3) Every mods gets notified and begins doing what it does again.

 

4) Somewhere in-between XPMSE fails completely to initialize.

 

4) 1-2 minutes later MCM menu is finally populated and visible, with some stuff broken if Animation mods were out of order, and XPMSE missing.

 

Worse if game was reloaded (e.g. after death): all  animation registration become utterly broken or missing. Yes, they were saved and it's a correct save game. They stayed loaded. Mods try load them again, see them already loaded and do nothing. Then clean-up happens.

 

I suppose there might be some differences between LE and SE. Most of these mods were designed with LE in mind. Most still use  LE version of ESP, which is already a red flag. SE changed more than just tweaked the game. Load order and guarantees apparently changed to make stuff uniform and reduce load times. Nte that we even MUST use a different version of SkyUI for SE\AE version, one that works with LE is not compatible.

 

On other hand, reordering everything manually had effect that mods started to work almost as intended. There are still  issues that creature animation  have to be re-registered after every game load.

 

Vague optimized order:

 

- USSEP

- (any other patches changing base game, like Weightless).

- FNIS

- SkyUI

- UIExtensions

- Race menu

- (Race menu plugins)

- (body mods)

- (skin mods

- (follower mods)

- SexLab

- (Animation mods, HOC, MNC )

- SL Tools

- SL Aroused Mods

- SL Aroused Creatures

- SL Creature Framework

- SL Animation Loader

- ZAZ (edition appropriated for body mod)

- SL Defeat

- SOS Lite

- XMPSE   (Must be after SOS, or SOS will not work)

- (fluff)

 

Please, advise if something is wrong here. Out of box Vortex 1.7.8 or LOOT almost completely reverses it, even USSEP isn't on top. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by MiyuHogosha

[Just Don't]

I can tell you from years of playing with SL in both LE and SE that loading Sexlab in place with any other ESM file doesn't have any negative impact on its functionality. I've never forced any specific order for SL, SkyUI or any of the mods you mention.

 

4 hours ago, MiyuHogosha said:

From SkyUI guys: "any mod of plugin using SkyUI 5.2 should be loaded after".

Where are you getting this from? It's nowhere in the description, FAQ or troubleshooting threads. In fact by checking the FAQ over github you can read:

 

I can see how a mod directly referencing the SkyUI plugin must be loaded after SkyUI itself, this means the mod in question has SkyUI as a master and thus certain loadorder rules apply (just like I said at the start of my first message here). But SL doesn't have SkyUI as a master, because it doesn't reference SkyUI records. It merely uses SkyUI's MCM feature. And I surely hope you understand by now said component isn't loadorder specific.

 

4 hours ago, MiyuHogosha said:

- XMPSE   (Must be after SOS, or SOS will not work)

I hate to repeat myself, but the critical part about XPMSSE is using the skeleton.nif from it. Loadorder has little to do. There are versions of XPMSSE that don't even use plugin files because the plugin has nothing to do with setting the skeleton for the actors, the plugin has always been used to manage other XPMSSE features.

 

4 hours ago, MiyuHogosha said:

Please, advise if something is wrong here. Out of box Vortex 1.7.8 or LOOT almost completely reverses it, even USSEP isn't on top. 

USSEP is the first plugin after all the base game esm and esl files from DLC and CC. If you see something else it must be either something really weird that must load before USSEP or if you've been adding custom rules maybe you fuck it up trying to solve non-existing problems. All the problems you mention sound more like the results of a poorly modded game instead of wide and known issues.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Just Don't

[MiyuHogosha]

On 3/19/2023 at 4:45 PM, Just Don't said:

USSEP is the first plugin after all the base game esm and esl files from DLC and CC. If you see something else it must be either something really weird that must load before USSEP or if you've been adding custom rules maybe you fuck it up trying to solve non-existing problems. All the problems you mention sound more like the results of a poorly modded game instead of wide and known issues.

 

Yeah, that what hinted me at problem. It was putting USSEP too low in load order. and it was overriding some changes made by other mods. I think Vortex was explicitly forcing .esm files (and that would be body and SexLAb) first.

 

I had to ditch USSEP and Weightless at all because of others reasons. Examining it changes and how it interacts with master files.. Many conflicts with CC .esl files. About 1/3 of them are either wrong or outright break game by removing leafs that were added by SE. Funny, removing those two fixed animation loading (I suppose it was USSEP only).

 

  Mainly USSEP was loved for scripts that fixed some issues with spells (like USSEP book) or main game scripts. About half of those issues were fixed  anyway. Made my own lightweight version of Patch as well as my version of Weightless mod that doesn't depend on USSEP.