Why is Fallout 4 a Masterpiece?

[LT12Gauge]

I must think it a masterpiece, otherwise why have I played it for thousands of hours compared to all other games since its release, combined at maybe 50 hours? While FO4 borrows heavily from other examples of its genre (most notably it owes a huge debt to Blade Runner in style and themes -- film noir injected into a post modern world) I think FO4 unique enough that it holds up on its own merit.

There is a level of detail that takes numerous playthroughs to fully realize, very good storytelling for a video game (if at times poorly paced and frankly illogical) and incorporates that into a player experience that far surpasses most of what video gaming has to offer, in my opinion. 

[alex77r4]

And what is your opinion about Skyrim? Because I hate Fallout 4 and 3 and New Vegas... but I love Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind...

[ebbluminous]

My opinion is... Masterpiece is a bit of a stretch lol

[t.ara]

I would stick to have the term "masterpiece" used literary or as a term sticking and suiting to music and art.

And even the really nice composed soundtrack of SKYRIM is no masterpiece, I´m sorry!

 

You can maybe change to:

"Why do I like FO4 so much?"....

In that case you will catch the attraction of some other fans of that game:-)

 

 

 

 

 

[t.ara]

6 minutes ago, ebbluminous said:

My opinion is... Masterpiece is a bit of a stretch lol

This is correct!

[Miauzi]

A masterpiece?

So the "sunflowers" by the guy with the cut off ear - that's a masterpiece...
..this David made of marble, which is several meters high and stands in Florence.

for me the question is:
Why am I playing a completely crappy computer game for so long?

And I can't really answer that question.

Just all these "weird" things that I or other players have written about in a neighboring thread...
..should prevent a rationally thinking person from even intending to turn on the computer!

Maybe it's because in the games of "Bug-destha" you got used to it long before "Fallout 4" - to completely switch off any rationality in thinking...
..and in this crude illogicality his own reflections on "God and the World" have a perfect level of representation.

So the longer I use this actually completely stupid game - the more I transport things of myself into it and these fill more and more space.
In the meantime, all the mods that fit perfectly into it also help - the description of their content alone always gives rise to new ideas in my head.

How else would I come up with the following:
- my char is a synth reincarnated Chinese agent who worked as a dominatrix in Boston during the vo-bomb era
- after her escape from the Institute, she returns to Sanctuary - in which she lived in the house next to Nora and Nate before her arrest 3 months before Day X
- In Vault 11, she finds a dead Nora outside the cryopod and discovers that sexual experiments were being conducted on the female inmates in the vault
- between Vault and Sanctuary, in a small basement hideout, she finds a female cyborg - built by a mad scientist who escaped from the institute and left there...??
- this "Pleaser Bot" is on her way - you build a shelter in Sanctuary - explore the area and come across prisoners at Raider - who join the two after their liberation
- Too much radioactivity causes an initially permanent change in the body of my character - breasts and buttocks swell
- looking for help you come to "BunkerHill" - where you can also help
- meanwhile, those left behind in Sanctuary have discovered a secret previously inaccessible area in the Vault - an unfinished expansion
- in addition to a medical station, there is also a kind of "sexual torture chamber" - in which it was planned to sexually condition the female "vault inmates".
- in order to expand the vault as a secret accommodation - which protects the group from raiders - you need the help of construction robots
- on a scouting tour to find the merchant caravan that trades in this technology - you can only find its remains (the robot Ada).
- an expedition to salvage a robotic brain leads to the underground of Fort Hagen - the confrontation with the "Rust Devil" finally leads to the taking prisoner of their queen named "Ivey"
- the former Queen of the "Rust Devil" is subjected to a (successful) sexual conditioning by the player character rather unintentionally
- the idea is born to catch the other female gang leaders as well and subject them to a (sexual) "brain-washing" in order to use them usefully as workers in the vault
- finding several skill magazines unlocks the building options - equipping NPCs with devices or imprisoning them in such devices - with the help of which they produce canned blood or mother's milk
- you decide to condition and use the captured raider bosses exactly for this
--
and that's not even 1/3 of the plot conceived so far...
..on which you only come if the "masterpiece" has so many gaps - that you either throw it away in the trash or try to close them with your own (perverted) imagination.

--
and without this platform with its many mods - for which I would like to sincerely thank the many unnamed authors - this would not be possible

 

 

Spoiler

Ein Meisterwerk?

Also die "Sonnenblumen" von dem Typen mit dem abgeschnittenen Ohr - das ist ein Meisterwerk...
..die dieser mehrere Meter grosse David aus Marmor der in Florenz steht.

für mich stellt sich eher die Frage:
Warum spiele ich solange ein komplett schrottiges Computerspiel?

Und diese Frage kann ich nicht wirklich beantworten.

Alleine all diese "komischen" Dinge über die ich oder andere Spieler sich in einem benachbarten tread ausgelassen haben...
..sollten doch einen rational denkenden Menschen davon abhalten auch nur die Absicht zu hegen den Computer einzuschalten!

Vielleicht liegt es daran das man sich bei den Spielen von "Bug-destha" es sich schon lange vor "Fallout 4" angewöhnt hat - jegliche Rationalität im Denken komplett auszuschalten...
..und in dieser kruden Unlogik seine eigenen Reflexionen über "Gott und die Welt" eine perfekte Darstellungsebene haben.

je länger ich also dieses eigentlich komplett blödsinniges Spiel nutze - deto mehr transportiere ich Dinge von mir hinein und diese füllen immer mehr Raum.
Dabei helfen inzwischen auch all die perfekt hinein passenden Mods - allein deren inhaltliche Beschreibug bei mir immer neue Ideen im Kopf entstehen lassen.

Wie sonst käme ich darauf mit folgendes auszudenken:
- mein Char ist eine als synth wiedergeborene chinesische Agentin die in Boston der Vo-Bomben-Zeit als Domina gearbeitet hat
- nach ihrer Flucht aus dem Institut kehrt sie nach Sanctuary zurück - in das sie vor ihrer Verhaftung 3 Monate vor dem Tag X im Haus neben Nora und Nate lebte
- im Vault 11 findet sie eine tote Nora ausserhalb der Kryo-Kapsel und entdeckt das im Vault sexuelle Experimente an den weiblichen Insassen durchgeführt worden waren
- zwischen Vault und Sanctuary findet sie in einem kleinen Keller-Versteckt einen weiblichen Cyborg - den ein verrückter aus dem Institut geflohener Wissenschaftler gebaut und dort ... zurück gelassen hat??
- die diesem "Pleaser Bot" macht sie sich auf dem Weg - man baut sich in Sanctuary eine Unterkunft - erkundet die Gegend und stößt bei Raider auf Gefangene - die sich nach deren Befreiung den beiden Anschliessen
- ein zuviel an Radiaktivität bewirkt bei meinem Char eine zunächst dauerhafte Veränderung des Körpers - Busen und Po schwellen an
- auf der Suche nach Hilfe kommt man nach "BunkerHill" - wo man auch helfen kann
- in der Zwischenzeit haben die in Sanctuary zurück Gebliebenen im Vault einen geheimen bisher nicht zugänglichen Bereich entdeckt - einen unfertige Erweiterung
- in dieser findet man neben einer medizinischen Station auch eine Art "sexuelle Folterkammer" - in der es geplant war die weiblichen "Vault-Insassen" sexuell zu konditionieren
- um den Vault als geheime Unterkunft - die die Gruppe vor Raider-Überfällen schützt - auszubauen benötigt man jedoch die Hilfe von Bau-Robotern
- auf einer Erkundungstour um die Händler-Karawane zu finden die mit dieser Technologie handelt - können sie diese nur deren Überreste (den Roboter Ada) finden
- eine Expedition zur Bergung eines Roboter-Hirns führt in den Untergrund von Fort Hagen - die Konfrontation mit den "Rust Devil" fürhrt schliesslich zur Gefangenen-Nahme ihrer Queen namens "Ivey"
- die ehemalige Queen der "Rust Devil" wird durch eher unbeabsichtigt einer (erfolgreichen) sexuellen Konditionierung durch den Spieler-Char unterworfen
- es wird die Idee geboren auch die anderen weiblichen Banden-Anführer zu fangen und einer (sexuellen) "Gehirn-Wäsche" zu unterziehen um sie dann im Vault als Arbeitskärfte nutzbringend einzusetzen
- der Fund mehrerer Fertigkeits-Magazine schaltet die Baumöglichkeiten frei - NPC mit Geräten auszustatten oder diese in solche einzusperren - mit deren Hilfe diese Blut-Konserven oder Mutter-Milch produzieren
- man beschliesst die gefangenen Raider-Bosses genau dafür zu konditionieren und einzusetzen
--
und das ist noch nicht mal 1/3 des bisher konzipierten Plotes...
..auf dem man nur kommt wenn das "Meisterwerk" derart viele Lücken hat - das man es entweder in den Müll entsorgt oder versucht diese mittels eigenen (perverser) Fantasie zu schliessen.

--
und ohne diese Platform mit ihren viele Mod - für die ich mich bei vielen ungenannt gebliebenen Autoren herzlichst bedanke - wäre das gar nicht möglich

 

[South8028]

Masterpiece - Nier Automata. The plot, the atmosphere, the characters. But I had enough strength to replay the game a maximum of 2 times in 4 years. Fo4 is the kind of game where I don't need to know the plot to spend years. ) This is a sandbox and renderer. In principle, probably, if there were no fo4, I spent time in a more useful way on mastering ue4, ue5. fo4 is a harmful but addictive medium. )

[t.ara]

Fallout has been the "last option" of bethesda "to keep the business working" - a very last option helping idea as the concern was on the best way, straight to die.

As bethi learned quite a lot in technical aspects, FO became technically a best bethesda game...but not a best game on the market.

Bethesda is maybe well known because of Morrowind in U.S.A., all the different other games from what I can say have been still unknown-same is for their name.

In the game-industry much more other names have been much more famous. One of the best of them has been "Illusion Softworks", which created very serious stuff with very future-way-based technique/technology of their time. I´d call those teams the "makers" of modern video-art. TAKE2/2KCzech and so on. Aside came EA games with their sport-game stuff, "Medal Of Honor" and with SIMS. EIDOS with their idea of "lara croft" as tomb-raider. This mentioned stuff all together with others, like Activision (Call Of Duty)...and many, many, many, many more simply letting Bethesda put onto a very, very, very, very small place aside. And let´s mention the gamebryo-engine as a platform for endless videogames at all. Gamebryo is a masterpiece.

This is my personal point of view, of course.

[LT12Gauge]

19 hours ago, alex77r4 said:

And what is your opinion about Skyrim? Because I hate Fallout 4 and 3 and New Vegas... but I love Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind...

Want to like it, tried hard to like it. Only played it on Xbox One and a few mods available there. I dunno, just can't get into it. I never was one for the Dungeons and Dragons aesthetic. I was more a Gamma World/Rifts TTRPG guy as a kid. Something about wizardry just isn't for me. 

I do like the skill progression (and expanded mod one) in Skyrim better than Fallout 4 though. If I'm remembering correctly it was like a web and I like that skills are improved based on what your character did as opposed to the perks method of leveling up and simply picking something.

It's tough to compare though, since I have only spent time on FO4 in heavily modded iterations on PC except for the first playthrough on Xbox One. Both have the great aspect that has allowed mod authors to do the stupendous work they have done. 

I'm with you on NV. I so wanted to like that one, too. It was supposed to be the best Fallout game according to popular opinion but I couldn't get into it, either.

[LT12Gauge]

18 hours ago, ebbluminous said:

My opinion is... Masterpiece is a bit of a stretch lol

Well...it's the level of customization that modders have been able to take advantage of and the little details that the original devs inserted that I'm still discovering thousands of hours I guess. Can other games be modded (besides Bethesda ones) to that extent? I don't actually know. It mods like Ivy 6.0 that have shown what a masterpiece FO4 can be, if that makes sense.

[LT12Gauge]

13 hours ago, South8028 said:

Masterpiece - Nier Automata. The plot, the atmosphere, the characters. But I had enough strength to replay the game a maximum of 2 times in 4 years. Fo4 is the kind of game where I don't need to know the plot to spend years. ) This is a sandbox and renderer. In principle, probably, if there were no fo4, I spent time in a more useful way on mastering ue4, ue5. fo4 is a harmful but addictive medium. )

Is it all swords and stuff or is the action centered around gunplay? I don't mind melee weapons in games as long as they aren't ALL melee weapons, or if it is that way, I can use ANYTHING as a melee weapon. I hate questing after magical swords and shit like that; I'll take smithing guns and bullets/modern weapons/modern or future tech based violence any day (even though I will add that the vanilla weapons in FO4, esp the laser stuff and gamma weapons really did suck in their execution)

Going to Steam to check out Nier Automata now. Is the gameplay fairly easy? I'm pretty shit at games and hate doing missions more than once. Twice, max is my threshold for patience before I lose interest. I like deep puzzles and stuff, but cheap ass gameplay that lends itself to cheap deaths or anything with a timer on it and I'm out (unless it's a racing game but even then time trials drive me bonkers).

To me, a great game should have a decent challenge level to it where the normal difficulty allows most players to accomplish most levels on the first try, maybe beaten to within an inch of death but still, nothing breaks immersion for me like having to replay shit 3 or 10 times like boxing Mike Tyson on NES. I never did beat him...

[LT12Gauge]

17 hours ago, Miauzi said:

A masterpiece?

So the "sunflowers" by the guy with the cut off ear - that's a masterpiece...
..this David made of marble, which is several meters high and stands in Florence.

for me the question is:
Why am I playing a completely crappy computer game for so long?

And I can't really answer that question.

Just all these "weird" things that I or other players have written about in a neighboring thread...
..should prevent a rationally thinking person from even intending to turn on the computer!

Maybe it's because in the games of "Bug-destha" you got used to it long before "Fallout 4" - to completely switch off any rationality in thinking...
..and in this crude illogicality his own reflections on "God and the World" have a perfect level of representation.

So the longer I use this actually completely stupid game - the more I transport things of myself into it and these fill more and more space.
In the meantime, all the mods that fit perfectly into it also help - the description of their content alone always gives rise to new ideas in my head.

How else would I come up with the following:
- my char is a synth reincarnated Chinese agent who worked as a dominatrix in Boston during the vo-bomb era
- after her escape from the Institute, she returns to Sanctuary - in which she lived in the house next to Nora and Nate before her arrest 3 months before Day X
- In Vault 11, she finds a dead Nora outside the cryopod and discovers that sexual experiments were being conducted on the female inmates in the vault
- between Vault and Sanctuary, in a small basement hideout, she finds a female cyborg - built by a mad scientist who escaped from the institute and left there...??
- this "Pleaser Bot" is on her way - you build a shelter in Sanctuary - explore the area and come across prisoners at Raider - who join the two after their liberation
- Too much radioactivity causes an initially permanent change in the body of my character - breasts and buttocks swell
- looking for help you come to "BunkerHill" - where you can also help
- meanwhile, those left behind in Sanctuary have discovered a secret previously inaccessible area in the Vault - an unfinished expansion
- in addition to a medical station, there is also a kind of "sexual torture chamber" - in which it was planned to sexually condition the female "vault inmates".
- in order to expand the vault as a secret accommodation - which protects the group from raiders - you need the help of construction robots
- on a scouting tour to find the merchant caravan that trades in this technology - you can only find its remains (the robot Ada).
- an expedition to salvage a robotic brain leads to the underground of Fort Hagen - the confrontation with the "Rust Devil" finally leads to the taking prisoner of their queen named "Ivey"
- the former Queen of the "Rust Devil" is subjected to a (successful) sexual conditioning by the player character rather unintentionally
- the idea is born to catch the other female gang leaders as well and subject them to a (sexual) "brain-washing" in order to use them usefully as workers in the vault
- finding several skill magazines unlocks the building options - equipping NPCs with devices or imprisoning them in such devices - with the help of which they produce canned blood or mother's milk
- you decide to condition and use the captured raider bosses exactly for this
--
and that's not even 1/3 of the plot conceived so far...
..on which you only come if the "masterpiece" has so many gaps - that you either throw it away in the trash or try to close them with your own (perverted) imagination.

--
and without this platform with its many mods - for which I would like to sincerely thank the many unnamed authors - this would not be possible

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ein Meisterwerk?

Also die "Sonnenblumen" von dem Typen mit dem abgeschnittenen Ohr - das ist ein Meisterwerk...
..die dieser mehrere Meter grosse David aus Marmor der in Florenz steht.

für mich stellt sich eher die Frage:
Warum spiele ich solange ein komplett schrottiges Computerspiel?

Und diese Frage kann ich nicht wirklich beantworten.

Alleine all diese "komischen" Dinge über die ich oder andere Spieler sich in einem benachbarten tread ausgelassen haben...
..sollten doch einen rational denkenden Menschen davon abhalten auch nur die Absicht zu hegen den Computer einzuschalten!

Vielleicht liegt es daran das man sich bei den Spielen von "Bug-destha" es sich schon lange vor "Fallout 4" angewöhnt hat - jegliche Rationalität im Denken komplett auszuschalten...
..und in dieser kruden Unlogik seine eigenen Reflexionen über "Gott und die Welt" eine perfekte Darstellungsebene haben.

je länger ich also dieses eigentlich komplett blödsinniges Spiel nutze - deto mehr transportiere ich Dinge von mir hinein und diese füllen immer mehr Raum.
Dabei helfen inzwischen auch all die perfekt hinein passenden Mods - allein deren inhaltliche Beschreibug bei mir immer neue Ideen im Kopf entstehen lassen.

Wie sonst käme ich darauf mit folgendes auszudenken:
- mein Char ist eine als synth wiedergeborene chinesische Agentin die in Boston der Vo-Bomben-Zeit als Domina gearbeitet hat
- nach ihrer Flucht aus dem Institut kehrt sie nach Sanctuary zurück - in das sie vor ihrer Verhaftung 3 Monate vor dem Tag X im Haus neben Nora und Nate lebte
- im Vault 11 findet sie eine tote Nora ausserhalb der Kryo-Kapsel und entdeckt das im Vault sexuelle Experimente an den weiblichen Insassen durchgeführt worden waren
- zwischen Vault und Sanctuary findet sie in einem kleinen Keller-Versteckt einen weiblichen Cyborg - den ein verrückter aus dem Institut geflohener Wissenschaftler gebaut und dort ... zurück gelassen hat??
- die diesem "Pleaser Bot" macht sie sich auf dem Weg - man baut sich in Sanctuary eine Unterkunft - erkundet die Gegend und stößt bei Raider auf Gefangene - die sich nach deren Befreiung den beiden Anschliessen
- ein zuviel an Radiaktivität bewirkt bei meinem Char eine zunächst dauerhafte Veränderung des Körpers - Busen und Po schwellen an
- auf der Suche nach Hilfe kommt man nach "BunkerHill" - wo man auch helfen kann
- in der Zwischenzeit haben die in Sanctuary zurück Gebliebenen im Vault einen geheimen bisher nicht zugänglichen Bereich entdeckt - einen unfertige Erweiterung
- in dieser findet man neben einer medizinischen Station auch eine Art "sexuelle Folterkammer" - in der es geplant war die weiblichen "Vault-Insassen" sexuell zu konditionieren
- um den Vault als geheime Unterkunft - die die Gruppe vor Raider-Überfällen schützt - auszubauen benötigt man jedoch die Hilfe von Bau-Robotern
- auf einer Erkundungstour um die Händler-Karawane zu finden die mit dieser Technologie handelt - können sie diese nur deren Überreste (den Roboter Ada) finden
- eine Expedition zur Bergung eines Roboter-Hirns führt in den Untergrund von Fort Hagen - die Konfrontation mit den "Rust Devil" fürhrt schliesslich zur Gefangenen-Nahme ihrer Queen namens "Ivey"
- die ehemalige Queen der "Rust Devil" wird durch eher unbeabsichtigt einer (erfolgreichen) sexuellen Konditionierung durch den Spieler-Char unterworfen
- es wird die Idee geboren auch die anderen weiblichen Banden-Anführer zu fangen und einer (sexuellen) "Gehirn-Wäsche" zu unterziehen um sie dann im Vault als Arbeitskärfte nutzbringend einzusetzen
- der Fund mehrerer Fertigkeits-Magazine schaltet die Baumöglichkeiten frei - NPC mit Geräten auszustatten oder diese in solche einzusperren - mit deren Hilfe diese Blut-Konserven oder Mutter-Milch produzieren
- man beschliesst die gefangenen Raider-Bosses genau dafür zu konditionieren und einzusetzen
--
und das ist noch nicht mal 1/3 des bisher konzipierten Plotes...
..auf dem man nur kommt wenn das "Meisterwerk" derart viele Lücken hat - das man es entweder in den Müll entsorgt oder versucht diese mittels eigenen (perverser) Fantasie zu schliessen.

--
und ohne diese Platform mit ihren viele Mod - für die ich mich bei vielen ungenannt gebliebenen Autoren herzlichst bedanke - wäre das gar nicht möglich

 

Exactly! A masterpiece maybe not in how it was originally released, but for what it can become. The collective efforts of so so many amazing mod authors (Companion Ivy easily among the very best of them, as you mentioned it) and the voice actors featured in so many of the great quest mods, is what makes this game a masterpiece. 

I don't claim to know a lot about modding (I'm an end-user, but have got a couple of rock solid load orders after lots of failures) or modern gaming (I'm a busy person, casual gamer at best but I did write and produce a couple of my own video games so I know how laborious it is to conceive of, write and debug one) but I do see the open source part of the Fallout 4 release via Creation Kit and even that little Pip Boy phone app as a couple things that the Bethesda effort brought to bear. 

The masterpiece, in summary is the reaching out from a virtual game world and touching the real world in novel (pip boy app) and ingenious ways (leveraging the fandom talent pool to polish a diamond in the rough).

[Miauzi]

Vor 48 Minuten sagte LT12Gauge:

Exakt! Ein Meisterwerk vielleicht nicht so, wie es ursprünglich veröffentlicht wurde, aber was es werden kann. Die kollektiven Bemühungen so vieler erstaunlicher Mod-Autoren (Companion Ivy gehört mit Sicherheit zu den allerbesten, wie Sie es erwähnt haben) und der Synchronsprecher, die in so vielen der großartigen Quest-Mods zu sehen sind, machen dieses Spiel zu einem Meisterwerk. 

Ich behaupte nicht, viel über Modding (ich bin ein Endbenutzer, habe aber nach vielen Fehlern ein paar felsenfeste Ladebefehle) oder modernes Spielen (ich bin eine vielbeschäftigte Person, bestenfalls Gelegenheitsspieler) zu wissen aber ich habe ein paar meiner eigenen Videospiele geschrieben und produziert, daher weiß ich, wie mühsam es ist, eines zu konzipieren, zu schreiben und zu debuggen), aber ich sehe den Open-Source-Teil der Fallout 4-Veröffentlichung über Creation Kit und sogar diesen kleinen Pip Boy Phone App als ein paar Dinge, die die Bethesda-Bemühungen zum Tragen brachten. 

Zusammenfassend ist das Meisterwerk das Erreichen einer virtuellen Spielwelt und das Berühren der realen Welt auf neuartige (Pip Boy-App) und geniale Weise (unter Nutzung des Fandom-Talentpools, um einen Rohdiamanten zu polieren).

You started the thread completely wrong with the title!

It should have read: "Can you make a masterpiece out of Fallout 4 (with the help of mods)?"

because if the base game weren't such unbearable crap, the mods wouldn't have this effect in improving the game.
In fact, there is no mod that could make the game worse - even the worst mod makes "Fallout 4" better.

And only thanks to these mods I have more than 2000 hours on my "music box" - something as "simple" (in terms of the idea approach) as the -> alternative start

Such a screwed up game which actually only exists thanks to the mod community is definitely not a credit to a game developer...
...so he can't write anything on any banner whatsoever.
Even the error correction was completely left to the player himself - yes - very clever business model
*sarcasm*

[Guest]

I could not bear to play F4 without mods, Bethesda makes you suck Preston's ass, or do the three other factions that are just as toxic to the player's mind.

Why are we not allowed to join the Raiders or Gunners sans going the Nuka World route and having the same boring Settlement Build, oh here we are helpless build all this shit that we won't take care of, so you get to come back and hold our hands and wipe our asses.

Without Mods I would shoot my computer!        ?

[LT12Gauge]

20 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

You started the thread completely wrong with the title!

It should have read: "Can you make a masterpiece out of Fallout 4 (with the help of mods)?"

because if the base game weren't such unbearable crap, the mods wouldn't have this effect in improving the game.
In fact, there is no mod that could make the game worse - even the worst mod makes "Fallout 4" better.

And only thanks to these mods I have more than 2000 hours on my "music box" - something as "simple" (in terms of the idea approach) as the -> alternative start

Such a screwed up game which actually only exists thanks to the mod community is definitely not a credit to a game developer...
...so he can't write anything on any banner whatsoever.
Even the error correction was completely left to the player himself - yes - very clever business model
*sarcasm*

Fair enough perspective

[LT12Gauge]

14 minutes ago, caveman74 said:

I could not bear to play F4 without mods, Bethesda makes you suck Preston's ass, or do the three other factions that are just as toxic to the player's mind.

Why are we not allowed to join the Raiders or Gunners sans going the Nuka World route and having the same boring Settlement Build, oh here we are helpless build all this shit that we won't take care of, so you get to come back and hold our hands and wipe our asses.

Without Mods I would shoot my computer!        ?

It would have been nice to exit Vault 111 and start building a character class (OCC from Rifts TTRPG type thing) and maybe work as a DC guard or join the Atom Cats or Raiders as you say. I have played the game quite a ways in simply ignoring the main quests and wandering around murdering people in fun and interesting ways. That's probably possible because of mods as well I don't really know anymore since I haven't played mod-free in years. 

You could always simply attract settlers to your settlements only to bait and murder them in fun and interesting ways...

EDIT: I do wish it was easy to murder everyone in the game. It really sucks that you can't simply kill everyone in the Museum of Freedom and use their bodies as decorations. Why should Pickman get to have all the fun?

Edited December 2, 2022 by LT12Gauge

[Miauzi]

Vor 22 Minuten sagte caveman74:

Ich könnte es nicht ertragen, F4 ohne Mods zu spielen, Bethesda lässt dich Prestons Arsch lutschen, oder die drei anderen Fraktionen, die für den Verstand des Spielers genauso giftig sind.

Warum dürfen wir uns nicht den Raiders oder Gunners anschließen, ohne die Route von Nuka World zu gehen und denselben langweiligen Siedlungsbau zu haben, oh, hier sind wir hilflos, all diesen Scheiß zu bauen, um den wir uns nicht kümmern werden, also kommst du zurück und halte unsere Hände und wische uns den Arsch ab.

Ohne Mods würde ich meinen Computer zerschießen! ?

 

You already have the choice between racist steel Nazis aka "Brotherhood" and completely crazy science racists aka "Institute".
And of course you can join raiders -> Nuka World
You can even take over almost all settlements in the Commonwealth...
..but is only in name the "Over-Boss" and actually the working slave of these bandits.

 

And what do you want as a genetically inferior to the "Gunner"?
Read the terminals in Vault 75 - hardly believe that as an "outsider" you can really be more than a simple soldier (shooter-ass-in-the-last-rank).

But of course I'm starting from my point of view - so please don't assume I wanted to offend someone because they would like to be a raider boss.

?

 

I, for example, would have liked to become a caravan leader - I was able to do that in "Fallout-2" for example

?

[Miauzi]

Vor 20 Minuten sagte LT12Gauge:

Es wäre schön gewesen, Vault 111 zu verlassen und mit dem Aufbau einer Charakterklasse (OCC von Rifts TTRPG-Typ) zu beginnen und vielleicht als DC-Wache zu arbeiten oder sich den Atom Cats oder Raiders anzuschließen, wie Sie sagen. Ich habe das Spiel ziemlich oft gespielt, indem ich die Hauptquests einfach ignorierte und herumwanderte und auf lustige und interessante Weise Menschen ermordete. Das ist wahrscheinlich auch wegen Mods möglich. Ich weiß es nicht mehr genau, da ich seit Jahren nicht mehr modfrei gespielt habe. 

Sie könnten Siedler immer einfach in Ihre Siedlungen locken, nur um sie auf lustige und interessante Weise zu ködern und zu ermorden ...

At least you can become a member of the Atom-Cats in the basic game (you even get a leather robe from them) - but until you get to their workshop yard safely at the beginning level...
..I only succeeded once without cheats - because I met one of them in power armor north of Fort Hagen and I accompanied him to his "home".

Every shithole can be turned into a "settlement" - but not the compound of the "Atoms Cats".
Why not?
At least that's what mod authors fixed.

[ebbluminous]

36 minutes ago, caveman74 said:

I could not bear to play F4 without mods, Bethesda makes you suck Preston's ass, or do the three other factions that are just as toxic to the player's mind.

Why are we not allowed to join the Raiders or Gunners sans going the Nuka World route and having the same boring Settlement Build, oh here we are helpless build all this shit that we won't take care of, so you get to come back and hold our hands and wipe our asses.

Without Mods I would shoot my computer!        ?

Leave your poor computer alone, it is not at fault. Toddy Howard... different story

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

You already have the choice between racist steel Nazis aka "Brotherhood" and completely crazy science racists aka "Institute".
And of course you can join raiders -> Nuka World
You can even take over almost all settlements in the Commonwealth...
..but is only in name the "Over-Boss" and actually the working slave of these bandits.

 

And what do you want as a genetically inferior to the "Gunner"?
Read the terminals in Vault 75 - hardly believe that as an "outsider" you can really be more than a simple soldier (shooter-ass-in-the-last-rank).

But of course I'm starting from my point of view - so please don't assume I wanted to offend someone because they would like to be a raider boss.

?

 

I, for example, would have liked to become a caravan leader - I was able to do that in "Fallout-2" for example

What I mean by that is I am sick of the constant build this here in this tiny little space, go set that up, basically be a Puppet! The game should be about choices, my choices not Todd Howards choices made for me. If they want to label this an "Open World" game I should be able to make the choices I want.

Doing the Vanilla style playthrough was fine the first 2 games, after that....................

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, ebbluminous said:

Leave your poor computer alone, it is not at fault.

Well, it is an Alienware Desktop. Yeah, don't get me started I knew nothing when I purchased it.  ?

[LT12Gauge]

12 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

At least you can become a member of the Atom-Cats in the basic game (you even get a leather robe from them) - but until you get to their workshop yard safely at the beginning level...
..I only succeeded once without cheats - because I met one of them in power armor north of Fort Hagen and I accompanied him to his "home".

Every shithole can be turned into a "settlement" - but not the compound of the "Atoms Cats".
Why not?
At least that's what mod authors fixed.

Never wanted to be one of them. They piss me off. Reminds me of so much "pay-to-belong" nonsense parasitic to our own real world culture these days. Ivy is right about them (but I'll say no more spoiler alert and all that).

@Miauzi I have to ask: is it you who is translating everything to German or someone else? Is someone feeding it into a translate program or actually translating it all one word at a time, in German? 

EDIT: The Bleachers mod made at least one cool cat: Lily. Lily is freakin' sweet, she's my kind of person.

Edited December 2, 2022 by LT12Gauge

[LT12Gauge]

7 minutes ago, ebbluminous said:

Leave your poor computer alone, it is not at fault. Toddy Howard... different story

Why does everyone here seem to rip on Todd Howard? Is he a total dick to work for or something?

[LT12Gauge]

1 minute ago, caveman74 said:

Well, it is an Alienware Desktop. Yeah, don't get me started I knew nothing when I purchased it.  ?

So...you don't recommend Alienware? My kid is super into computers (he's 14 and just starting to learn). We have built a couple together (including my FO4 rig) and sort of just Googled "best PC build under (our budget)" and took the parts that seemed to recur over and over again and had, well, good results I think for the price? Alienware are all pre-builds by Dell, aren't they? 

What do you like or dislike about them?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, LT12Gauge said:

Why does everyone here seem to rip on Todd Howard? Is he a total dick to work for or something?

The higher you climb the further you fall!

He self admittedly guides the production of the fallout series since Beth purchased the game rights and he is even steering Amazon's Fallout TV series away from any Gameplay, "It will be in the same world space, that's about all" so he is solely to blame for the issues of the gameplay workings. At least in my mind!