Found a weird bug

[Nayu]

Hi ppl,

I found a weird bug with AAF and I'm not sure if that is in relation with another mod or just AAF itself.

Bug is as follows:

- Start a new game or load a save (I use survival mode)

- Open console

- Do something or nothing with it

- BUG: Enemies stop detecting the PC and don't attack anymore, BUT they still see and attack companions.

- If that bug is present and you save the game that state will also save with it, causing the game to be "corrupt".

- Removing AAF causes the bug to not happen and also removing it from the save that was "corrupted" with that bug.

 

AAF version 161.1B AND 166.0 Beta, I tested it with both versions.

 

I tested it with a simple method:

- Open save that I know still works

- Open console and spawn a ghoul

- Enemy in 80% of tries attacks the PC

- Kill enemy

- Open console again and spawn another ghoul

- Result: Enemy doesn't attack and doesn't see the PC anymore

 

How can I better debug this if it is in relation with another mod? Can I only remove mods one by one or is there a "better" method?

 

Please help/nudge me in the right direction.

If you need anything just tell me and I will give my best to post it here.

[EgoBallistic]

1 hour ago, Nayu said:

Hi ppl,

I found a weird bug with AAF and I'm not sure if that is in relation with another mod or just AAF itself.

Bug is as follows:

- Start a new game or load a save (I use survival mode)

- Open console

- Do something or nothing with it

- BUG: Enemies stop detecting the PC and don't attack anymore, BUT they still see and attack companions.

 

 I use the console all the time to spawn enemies for testing when I work on other mods.  I have never seen this problem.

 

Just to see, I made a save in Survival and installed Simple Survival Console Enabled.  I went to a clear location and consoled in a feral ghoul.  It attacked me and I killed it.  I then repeated that about a dozen times, sometimes spawning one ghoul sometimes five ghouls.  In every case they attacked me as soon as they noticed me.

 

In any event, I don't know how AAF could possibly cause the problem you are having.  The only thing AAF does with the console is it stops listening for keystrokes while the console is open, so that you don't accidentally start an AAF scene while typing in the console.

 

If this were happening to me, some things I would check are

• What factions is the player in?  (install Better Console, select the player, then hit ctrl and look at Factions)
• What spell effects are on the player (hit ctrl and look at Effects)
• What quest aliases is the player in?  (open the console and run the "sv" command)

[Nayu]

33 minutes ago, EgoBallistic said:

I use the console all the time to spawn enemies for testing when I work on other mods.

Same here at one point in the game I noticed that my problem happens and I was thinking I was going crazy until I started removing mods randomly that I thought was causing it, like "Unlimited Survival Mode", companion mods and enemy mods like Pack Attack NPC Edition.

 

33 minutes ago, EgoBallistic said:

ust to see, I made a save in Survival and installed Simple Survival Console Enabled.  I went to a clear location and consoled in a feral ghoul.  It attacked me and I killed it.  I then repeated that about a dozen times, sometimes spawning one ghoul sometimes five ghouls.  In every case they attacked me as soon as they noticed me.

 

In any event, I don't know how AAF could possibly cause the problem you are having.  The only thing AAF does with the console is it stops listening for keystrokes while the console is open, so that you don't accidentally start an AAF scene while typing in the console.

Thank you for trying and basically confirming that it's not AAF but probably a combination of mods with AAF, however that figures :D.

 

33 minutes ago, EgoBallistic said:

What factions is the player in?  (install Better Console, select the player, then hit ctrl and look at Factions)

BoS100 Fight Faction Rank -1

Brotherhood of Steel Rank 0

Player Faction Rank 0

And 7 "null" factions (Which I assume are factions that get filled later?)

 

33 minutes ago, EgoBallistic said:

What spell effects are on the player (hit ctrl and look at Effects)

Ehh that's quite a bunch, about 304, also a few "null" of them.

 

33 minutes ago, EgoBallistic said:

What quest aliases is the player in?  (open the console and run the "sv" command)

I'm sorry I don't know what to look for there is there a way to paste that into a file on disk? It seems to be a long list.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Nayu

[Nayu]

I found the culprit combination:

More Enemies + AAF

Having just one active is fine, but having both active at the same time causes my problem.

 

I have no idea how this can be, it has to be script related as there are no overlapping entires I could find in F4Edit.

 

What do I mean with active: I mean just having the plugin file activated and loading, it's not a problem having both installed with MO2 and only having one active.

[EgoBallistic]

2 hours ago, Nayu said:

What do I mean with active: I mean just having the plugin file activated and loading, it's not a problem having both installed with MO2 and only having one active.

 

Something else is going on in your game and AAF + that mod is just a coincidence.  I installed More Enemies and tested and got the exact same results as before.

 

Maybe you are over the BA2 limit or the plugin limit or something like that and disabling one mod lets things work normally.  Whatever it is, it's not a simple bug in AAF causing your issue there.

[Nayu]

That's weird and interesting, thank you for testing it.

 

I tested it too and could 100% reproduce it with my load order and a bunch of mods disabled, it was always the same result so I'm sure I'm not over some limit, which may mean there is a conflict between those two and one or multiple more mods.

Or maybe not a conflict at all but one mod may edit a setting which causes the problem only in that specific combination.

 

I will investigate further and report back.

[Nayu]

I investigate further and found a three way mod combination that causes it:

More Enemies + AAF + Fine Zoom

 

Having all three of those installed and active at the same time causes my problem.

I had almost all mods including most F4SE, except a few clothing mods, disabled and could 100% reproduce it.

 

So I can have either:

More Enemeis + AAF

More Enemies + Fine Zoom

Fine Zoom + AAF

active and it works but not all three.

 

That sucks because I love all three mods...

 

@EgoBallistic please don't tell me now that you can have all three active at the same time I wish to have found something this time

[EgoBallistic]

4 hours ago, Nayu said:

@EgoBallistic please don't tell me now that you can have all three active at the same time I wish to have found something this time

 

Sorry, I tested with all three installed and there are no issues, I can do whatever I want in console, and when I spawn enemies or encounter existing enemies (presumably supplemented by additional ones from More Enemies) everything works fine.

 

There is no reason to think it wouldn't, anyway.  AAF doesn't do anything to any vanilla forms, and it does absolutely nothing until you use the GUI or when a script calls animations.  Fine Zoom also doesn't modify any vanilla forms, and its quest only reacts when you move the mouse wheel with a scoped weapon equipped.

 

I could see More Enemies possibly having an interaction, but the only change it makes to the vanilla game is make Aliens allied to each other.  It seems to work as advertised, all the enemies it spawned were hostile to me.

 

So, again, I think something else is going on in your game, and it's just a coincidence that sometimes you deactivate these mods and things start working again.

 

If you like, PM me your save game (including the F4SE cosave) and I can take a look.

[Nayu]

It's not save specific as I can start a new game (Start game and immediately click New) and have the same problem (I tend to create saves via console), which then can be fixed by removing any of the above mentioned mods.

The Radroaches at the beginning don't attack me at all is where I notice it.

 

Thank you again for trying it out

 

I guess I will have to investigate further.

[Nayu]

Much testing later and basically disablying every mod except those three and I figured it out, though there is probably no solution.

 

It's MCM + AAF+ Fine Zoom + More Enemies.

 

Why though?

My MCM for some reason never really worked fully I don't know why I seem to be not the only one where it only works half-way.

The author of MCM never responded when I or others opened an issue on github.

This issue for some reason persists even when re-installing the game and starting from zero, no idea why, I tried so much stuff and I gave up.

 

As a result it seems that some scripts are stuck and don't activate properly and it seems they block something at one point.

In this case it seems when this happens More Enemies doesn't activate at all, I never noticed that it seems, and with a combination of those three/four mod blocks or crashes something silently.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Nayu