Sexlab Submit 01SEP14 1133

[dkatryl]

So tomorrow looks like when I get to restart my skyrim adventures. Since finally decided on all the mods, turns out if you install and uninstall a ton of mods it makes the game unstable.

 

But now I have all the ones I want to use and decided a fresh install of everything was in order. Have just been waiting to start till submit was updated.

 

I ended up opting out of using frostfall, while it is a cool mod. It does cause some issues with many of the sex mods here. Namely you freeze to death with no clothes on.

Just keep in mind, this many changes, there will be a bug or two.  I figured I'll push it out tonight or tomorrow, let people play test it along with me for a bit, see what pops out that I missed, fix it by next weekend, which should roughly coincide with about the time Ashal is released 1.3 Framework, and then I just have to glance at that and see if I need/want to incorporate any new Framework features.

 

After that, other than bug fixes, stick a fork in the mod, cause it will basically be done.

[nutluck]

 

So tomorrow looks like when I get to restart my skyrim adventures. Since finally decided on all the mods, turns out if you install and uninstall a ton of mods it makes the game unstable.

 

But now I have all the ones I want to use and decided a fresh install of everything was in order. Have just been waiting to start till submit was updated.

 

I ended up opting out of using frostfall, while it is a cool mod. It does cause some issues with many of the sex mods here. Namely you freeze to death with no clothes on.

Just keep in mind, this many changes, there will be a bug or two.  I figured I'll push it out tonight or tomorrow, let people play test it along with me for a bit, see what pops out that I missed, fix it by next weekend, which should roughly coincide with about the time Ashal is released 1.3 Framework, and then I just have to glance at that and see if I need/want to incorporate any new Framework features.

 

After that, other than bug fixes, stick a fork in the mod, cause it will basically be done.

 

 

Oh yes I expect there to be a bug or two found after. That is the nature of things, so not a problem there.

 

Done? Well will see I might have a idea or two left after I test this that I still might suggest. Ones I think would make it better, I wouldn't think it would be to hard to do because it already works with NPC's but might be trickier than I would expect for doing it to a PC.

 

Ah didn't know the next framework was close to being done, I will have to see if I can find a least of new features being added to it.

 

I would also like to say, good work and I deeply appreciate the work you do. Only reason I keep suggesting stuff is honestly cause you make it look easy and your work is inspiring.

 

 

[dkatryl]

 

Ah didn't know the next framework was close to being done, I will have to see if I can find a least of new features being added to it.

Last I looked Ashal's target date was ~15DEC13, but I haven't looked too closely lately because I've been busy with my own work last week or so, it may have changed since.

[nutluck]

Ah cool.

 

As for my idea's I am going to wait and use the new submit first since they might be redundant after I try the update. Since obviously I don't know all the details of the changes you have made.

 

I am personally looking at learning how to mod myself. I got so far along as to get the creation kit installed and able to make a esp file and then my eyes crossed and my brains melted. But I am going to keep working on it, I figure it is only fair I at least TRY and learn how to mod and do it myself instead of just keep asking others.

[dkatryl]

For the most part, learning to mod any specific game just uses a more general mental toolset: "Reverse Engineering".  Looking at examples, learning what makes that example work, extrapolating that knowledge to make something new using the fundamental concept that you learned.  Rinse/Repeat until you have what you want.

 

That, and don't be afraid to just take baby steps, if need be.  We all learn at our own rate, so long as you scratch a little at the over all problem each time, then you're still making progress.

 

The more experience you have in doing this in general, the easier it will be to pick up on the specifics for whatever new game or whatever you're into, because you've practiced the mental habits needed to learn HOW to do things.  I started modding games back in the late 90's and earlier 00's with the Baldur's Gate and Diablo 2 series, using 100% 3rd party, fan made modding tools that were fully created by someone with far more knowledge than me reverse engineering things enough to cobble together those tools.

 

We're almost spoiled with official toolkits and such!

 

That said, http://www.creationkit.com/ is the single most useful tool for getting started with Skyrim modding, in particular scripting.  I personally used that, in combination with the handful of mods I studied to reverse engineer certain parts of them (All of them listed on the main page under Credits) to make Submit.

 

 

[nutluck]

For the most part, learning to mod any specific game just uses a more general mental toolset: "Reverse Engineering".  Looking at examples, learning what makes that example work, extrapolating that knowledge to make something new using the fundamental concept that you learned.  Rinse/Repeat until you have what you want.

 

That, and don't be afraid to just take baby steps, if need be.  We all learn at our own rate, so long as you scratch a little at the over all problem each time, then you're still making progress.

 

The more experience you have in doing this in general, the easier it will be to pick up on the specifics for whatever new game or whatever you're into, because you've practiced the mental habits needed to learn HOW to do things.  I started modding games back in the late 90's and earlier 00's with the Baldur's Gate and Diablo 2 series, using 100% 3rd party, fan made modding tools that were fully created by someone with far more knowledge than me reverse engineering things enough to cobble together those tools.

 

We're almost spoiled with official toolkits and such!

 

That said, http://www.creationkit.com/ is the single most useful tool for getting started with Skyrim modding, in particular scripting.  I personally used that, in combination with the handful of mods I studied to reverse engineer certain parts of them (All of them listed on the main page under Credits) to make Submit.

 

Yeah I figured, I got the creation kit you linked installed. I was able to get as far as making a esp file that required skyrim and sexlab master files and then for the moment hit a brick wall. I am going to keep trying to see if I can figure it out. I plan to start small or at least I hope my idea is small and won't be to hard to do and then expand on the idea as I get better at it.

 

I figure it will take me a long time, since I am completely new to modding. I mean the first time i ever even installed a mod on a game was when I bought Skyrim just over a week ago. Watching lets plays full of mods really made me want to play Skyrim and learn how to install mods so my game would look like theirs. Then while doing mod research I found this site and though hey more mods.

 

The first time I tried to mod skyrim I completely screwed it up and had to do a complete uninstall of skyrim and steam and fresh installs. the second time I got it all working but keep installing and trying mods, uninstalling and reinstalling the ones with options you choose during the install to tweak them and some just uninstalling. Naturally this eventually started causing stability issues which I knew it would, so i uninstalled all and skyrim and just reinstalled it with the mods I now know I want.

 

I am finally to the place I feel very comfortable installing mods others made. So i figured it was time to take the next step and try and learn how to make mods myself. Which I am still a long way from but hopefully making progress. I figured it was only fair I try and learn as I said, if I am going to ask others to tweak there mods, you know?

 

Though I might take your advice and open up submit the new one when you are done and take a look under the hood so to speak to at least give me a start point of understanding how a mod works. Hopefully that will help me learn. My goal is to have my first alpha mod done in a couple of months.

 

[nutluck]

Hey dkatryl, I have been reading over the notes of changes and what the mod currently does and I have a question. I have been using defeat as well as submit, defeat for the random chance and submit if at a low level. So I am not positive about this. When a submit is triggered it says it makes all NPC's in 500 units go non-hostile, do they all then take a turn or only the first two? I know on defeat they all will but I can't recall on submit now.

 

The main reason I am asking is after you make a random chance on the submit for the PC. I will likely use this for the PC and Defeat only for NPC vs NPC.

[dkatryl]

Only the first two (chosen at random, but typically the two closest) take a turn, the rest just go passive and are given the 'calm' effect.

 

If for whatever reason, you trigger their attention again (have the option turned on where you don't escape in time, fail on your escape attempt by a lot, the escape grace period expires, or you do something to prematurely end the grace period, etc), it once against selected 2 random ones.  It could be the same 2 from before, or could be 2 entirely different ones.

[nutluck]

Only the first two (chosen at random, but typically the two closest) take a turn, the rest just go passive and are given the 'calm' effect.

 

If for whatever reason, you trigger their attention again (have the option turned on where you don't escape in time, fail on your escape attempt by a lot, the escape grace period expires, or you do something to prematurely end the grace period, etc), it once against selected 2 random ones.  It could be the same 2 from before, or could be 2 entirely different ones.

 

Ah ok, then since you are doing some tweaks. Any chance you can add a sliding scale, starting at 2 and sliding up to 5 or 10 or what ever. So each time it is triggered, all those in the area would? I hate asking for more tweaks, but to me it would just be more immersive if each of the bandits in the area took a turn you know?

[dkatryl]

 

 

That said, http://www.creationkit.com/ is the single most useful tool for getting started with Skyrim modding, in particular scripting.  I personally used that, in combination with the handful of mods I studied to reverse engineer certain parts of them (All of them listed on the main page under Credits) to make Submit.

 

Yeah I figured, I got the creation kit you linked installed. <snipe)

Please understand, the physical creation kit, itself, that you install isn't what I was referring to.  It is pretty much assumed to be a part of Skyrim modding.  The single most useful tool for learning to mod Skyrim I was referring to isn't the creation kit, itself (Because, well, duh! ) but the actual site I linked.

 

It explains and has basic examples for almost every function/event/etc for Skyrim's papyrus system of scripting, even including SKSE content that appends the default Skyrim library.

 

Beyond that, yep, it's just tinkering with shit and discovering how it works.  Even if it's as simple and basic as making a little .ESP that modifies some armor or NPCs or whatever.  The strength of Bethesda games is how mod-friendly they are, which really extends their shelf life by so much.  I just couldn't play Skyrim on a console simply because I couldn't mod it the way I like it.

 

Of course, that's a double edged sword... if I'm not careful, I end up spending more time modding the stupid game than playing it...

 

Which is why I said after I push out this big update and handle whatever bugs pop up, I am planning to set the thing aside.  I haven't even *played* Skyrim beyond testing in weeks, if not months!

[dkatryl]

Ah ok, then since you are doing some tweaks. Any chance you can add a sliding scale, starting at 2 and sliding up to 5 or 10 or what ever. So each time it is triggered, all those in the area would? I hate asking for more tweaks, but to me it would just be more immersive if each of the bandits in the area took a turn you know?

No.  It's more than adding a sliding scale to a MCM configuration, it's adding Alias slots and such.  That's the limiting factor.  If you want X amount of NPC's to be able to do something, you need X amount of Alias slots, one for each of them.  If you try to assign a second NPC to an existing slot, the previous NPC gets pushed out of it.  First in, first out.

 

Without knowing how he actually does anything, I suspect that if Goubo has all of the bandits take their turn, then he likely has to create a crap load of Alias slots (Prolly 10-20 or so to handle large groups) and then when slot 1&2 finish, they queue up 3 & 4, then 5 & 6, etc.

 

To me, that's a whole lot of extra effort that, while arguably more realistic for the entire group to take their turn on a victim, eh, in the end, okay, there's Devil's tricycle.  There's Devil's Tricycle again.  Oh look, Devil's Tricycle *again*, ... okay, guys, can we get on with it? Maybe fast forward this a little?

[nutluck]

 

 

 

That said, http://www.creationkit.com/ is the single most useful tool for getting started with Skyrim modding, in particular scripting.  I personally used that, in combination with the handful of mods I studied to reverse engineer certain parts of them (All of them listed on the main page under Credits) to make Submit.

 

Yeah I figured, I got the creation kit you linked installed. <snipe)

Please understand, the physical creation kit, itself, that you install isn't what I was referring to.  It is pretty much assumed to be a part of Skyrim modding.  The single most useful tool for learning to mod Skyrim I was referring to isn't the creation kit, itself (Because, well, duh! ) but the actual site I linked.

 

It explains and has basic examples for almost every function/event/etc for Skyrim's papyrus system of scripting, even including SKSE content that appends the default Skyrim library.

 

Beyond that, yep, it's just tinkering with shit and discovering how it works.  Even if it's as simple and basic as making a little .ESP that modifies some armor or NPCs or whatever.  The strength of Bethesda games is how mod-friendly they are, which really extends their shelf life by so much.  I just couldn't play Skyrim on a console simply because I couldn't mod it the way I like it.

 

Of course, that's a double edged sword... if I'm not careful, I end up spending more time modding the stupid game than playing it...

 

Which is why I said after I push out this big update and handle whatever bugs pop up, I am planning to set the thing aside.  I haven't even *played* Skyrim beyond testing in weeks, if not months!

 

 

Ah yeah, I got that site bookmarked and another one I found about modding. I have read them but for the moment they are a little beyond me on understanding them. I kinda get it but not completely. So going to work on it more this weekend. my goal is still to have a very simple mod in alpha stage by 2 months, I think I can do it.

 

[nutluck]

 

Ah ok, then since you are doing some tweaks. Any chance you can add a sliding scale, starting at 2 and sliding up to 5 or 10 or what ever. So each time it is triggered, all those in the area would? I hate asking for more tweaks, but to me it would just be more immersive if each of the bandits in the area took a turn you know?

No.  It's more than adding a sliding scale to a MCM configuration, it's adding Alias slots and such.  That's the limiting factor.  If you want X amount of NPC's to be able to do something, you need X amount of Alias slots, one for each of them.  If you try to assign a second NPC to an existing slot, the previous NPC gets pushed out of it.  First in, first out.

 

 

Ok no problem, I don't completely understand what you just said. But I take your word for it. I will see if I can take defeat apart and see how he did it, since with defeat I know all of them in the area do.

 

Maybe this is something I can work on and try and figure out how to do myself. A add on mod(or tweak the existing mod) even if just for myself, that adds more Alias slots to submit.

[Ashra XIII]

Hehe I was going to ask about increasing the number beyond 2 as well, but if it's a technical limitation, I guess that's just how it goes.

 

I'm starting to think that the only reason left for me to keep Defeat will be for NPC vs NPC rape.

[dkatryl]

 

Ah yeah, I got that site bookmarked and another one I found about modding. I have read them but for the moment they are a little beyond me on understanding them. I kinda get it but not completely. So going to work on it more this weekend. my goal is still to have a very simple mod in alpha stage by 2 months, I think I can do it.

If it's your first .esp type thing, first try at modding, I'd say just come up with some tweaks to the game that would be to your liking.  Something that is basic and just mostly works in the CK, just to get familiar with its quirks.

 

Or, take an existing mod you like, and tweak something to it, and/or add something to it.  Then, as time goes, and you get more comfortable with stuff, you can always add and add and add.

 

That's how Submit originally started.  I was using SL Romance, and noticed it was missing nonconsensual options, because I wanted to be able to do naughty things to those naughty bandit ladies, while using Romance to do things with the nice city folk, and at the time, there were no other options (Submit preceded Defeat by about a month, iirc.)

 

So it was basically a "Well, if no one else is going to do it, I'll do it myself" situation.

[dkatryl]

 

 

Ah ok, then since you are doing some tweaks. Any chance you can add a sliding scale, starting at 2 and sliding up to 5 or 10 or what ever. So each time it is triggered, all those in the area would? I hate asking for more tweaks, but to me it would just be more immersive if each of the bandits in the area took a turn you know?

No.  It's more than adding a sliding scale to a MCM configuration, it's adding Alias slots and such.  That's the limiting factor.  If you want X amount of NPC's to be able to do something, you need X amount of Alias slots, one for each of them.  If you try to assign a second NPC to an existing slot, the previous NPC gets pushed out of it.  First in, first out.

 

 

Ok no problem, I don't completely understand what you just said. But I take your word for it. I will see if I can take defeat apart and see how he did it, since with defeat I know all of them in the area do.

 

Maybe this is something I can work on and try and figure out how to do myself. A add on mod(or tweak the existing mod) even if just for myself, that adds more Alias slots to submit.

 

I can tell you where Submit's Alias are held, and I can give an educated guess as to where Defeat's are held.  Submit's are easily found in the quest entry '_SLSubmit', under the Alias tab.

 

Defeat's will likely be under the custom quest entry for that mod, whatever the name Goubo gave it, under its Alias tab.

 

I make nothing I've done a secret, provide all of the source scripts, and am always willing to answer Submit-specific questions regarding how I might have accompished certain things if I have the time.  And I've assisted people making little tweaks to their own personal copy of Submit in the past.

[nutluck]

 

 

Ah yeah, I got that site bookmarked and another one I found about modding. I have read them but for the moment they are a little beyond me on understanding them. I kinda get it but not completely. So going to work on it more this weekend. my goal is still to have a very simple mod in alpha stage by 2 months, I think I can do it.

If it's your first .esp type thing, first try at modding, I'd say just come up with some tweaks to the game that would be to your liking.  Something that is basic and just mostly works in the CK, just to get familiar with its quirks.

 

Or, take an existing mod you like, and tweak something to it, and/or add something to it.  Then, as time goes, and you get more comfortable with stuff, you can always add and add and add.

 

That's how Submit originally started.  I was using SL Romance, and noticed it was missing nonconsensual options, because I wanted to be able to do naughty things to those naughty bandit ladies, while using Romance to do things with the nice city folk, and at the time, there were no other options (Submit preceded Defeat by about a month, iirc.)

 

So it was basically a "Well, if no one else is going to do it, I'll do it myself" situation.

 

 

Yeah I think that is what I am going to do, take your suggestion of starting with a existing mod and seeing if I can tweak it. This might be a bit ambitious of them since this might be really hard. But I am going to see if I can figure out how to increase the number of assailants up from two to five and see if I can get it to work. I figure if I can do that, then that will go a long way to having me learn how to mod and it is something I would love to see added to submit so why not at the very least see if I can try and do it.

 

[nutluck]

 

 

 

Ah ok, then since you are doing some tweaks. Any chance you can add a sliding scale, starting at 2 and sliding up to 5 or 10 or what ever. So each time it is triggered, all those in the area would? I hate asking for more tweaks, but to me it would just be more immersive if each of the bandits in the area took a turn you know?

No.  It's more than adding a sliding scale to a MCM configuration, it's adding Alias slots and such.  That's the limiting factor.  If you want X amount of NPC's to be able to do something, you need X amount of Alias slots, one for each of them.  If you try to assign a second NPC to an existing slot, the previous NPC gets pushed out of it.  First in, first out.

 

 

Ok no problem, I don't completely understand what you just said. But I take your word for it. I will see if I can take defeat apart and see how he did it, since with defeat I know all of them in the area do.

 

Maybe this is something I can work on and try and figure out how to do myself. A add on mod(or tweak the existing mod) even if just for myself, that adds more Alias slots to submit.

 

I can tell you where Submit's Alias are held, and I can give an educated guess as to where Defeat's are held.  Submit's are easily found in the quest entry '_SLSubmit', under the Alias tab.

 

Defeat's will likely be under the custom quest entry for that mod, whatever the name Goubo gave it, under its Alias tab.

 

I make nothing I've done a secret, provide all of the source scripts, and am always willing to answer Submit-specific questions regarding how I might have accompished certain things if I have the time.  And I've assisted people making little tweaks to their own personal copy of Submit in the past.

 

 

Yes after a couple of tries I manage to open and start exploring submit, I actually managed to find the ActorAssailant1 and 2 spots under the quest Alias tab of the _SLSubmit thingy. I think I even figured out what they trigger which is the AssailantPackage part of the mod. Now all I have to do is figure out how to make it more than 2.

 

[dkatryl]

 

Yes after a couple of tries I manage to open and start exploring submit, I actually managed to find the ActorAssailant1 and 2 spots under the quest Alias tab of the _SLSubmit thingy. I think I even figured out what they trigger which is the AssailantPackage part of the mod. Now all I have to do is figure out how to make it more than 2.

As I stated in the PM, creating the actual Alias slot is the easy part, and does nothing by itself.  It's like making a custom piece of Armor or Spell.  Just creating it does nothing unless you get it into the game to use.

 

Which leads me to the next part, and if this is your first time messing with modding, let me save you a bit of confusion.

 

For easy installing/uninstalling/updating purposes, I package all of my scripts/sources into a .BSA file, which is just a fancy .zip file.  This avoids you having to have them all individually cluttering up your /data folder.  However, you can't directly reference them while they are in the .BSA file, you have to manually extract them with a utility.  I forget what it's called, but a quick google search for "Skyrim .bsa extractor" should turn one up.

 

Once they are manually extracted, now the toolkit and such can reference them.  But, this is very important.

 

LOOSE FILES OVERRIDE .BSA's!!!

 

Meaning, if you extract the .BSA of the 21NOV13 Submit, and then I update this weekend, if you don't delete all of those loose scripts, they will override the new BSA when you start your game, and you will experience all kinds of really weird shit.

 

It's an easy to make rookie mistake, and I've even forgotten a temp backup script or two in the past and had all sorts of confusion until I realized what was happening.

[nutluck]

So to be clear when i am done playing around I need to go to skyrim/data folder and delete all these bsl files to make the bsa files work correctly yes?

 

[dkatryl]

So to be clear when i am done playing around I need to go to skyrim/data folder and delete all these bsl files to make the bsa files work correctly yes?

At the very least, the ones that are in the data/scripts folder.  I think they are .psx files?  (papyrus script uh, x for compiled?)  Those are the actual compiled scripts.

 

The ones in the data/scripts/source folder are just that.  They are just the source, and can be simply opened in your text editor of choice.  As they haven't been compiled into machine code, they do nothing, but allow you to easily read/edit/etc.

 

So you can technically leave the ones in the data/scripts/source folder alone, but the compiled ones definitely need to be deleted if you want the .BSA to be properly referenced.

 

I use the _SLSubmit prefix for all of my scripts, so that keeps them all together neatly in a group.

 

I also use _SLSubmit for pretty much all of my custom data within the .ESP, again for easy reference.

[nutluck]

Ok well i didn't actually save anything. Only thing I have done so far is open submit esp file and look inside of it. I check the data/scripts folder and there is a bunch of pex files but none of them are for submit, so don't think I have created any new ones yet.

[dkatryl]

Hitting a little snag on the Auto-Surrender to non-NPC types.  Apparently, the first argument for OnHit() events is an ObjectReference, which doesn't like when you try to use an Actor in its place, which I am trying to do with a custom function that checks all of the various valid races so it can only do the trigger for those particular races.

 

So, need to figure this out.  Depending on when I do will dictate later tonight or tomorrow for the update.

[nutluck]

Very cool, hopefully it won't give you to much trouble. Good luck with the final things.

[Ashra XIII]

MAKE THAT CODE SUBMIT.