Solution: Sims Extreme Leg Bending

[Isisj18]

I was looking at a topic I searched up myself through Google to here and I finally found a solution. The dreaded side effect to custom slider users. Sorry, I don't have any pics because while I'm concentrated on playing I don't think about taking pictures. I can imagine a lot of you know what I'm talking about since this problem occurs often. Whenever your sims play out any kind of animation that uses Kinky or Passion their legs bend towards their stomach. Animations just look terrible when this happens. 

 

Solution: It's not butt sliders. It's your leg sliders, but not all. Ex. OEM's (OneEuroMutt) leg sliders are in the clear - Thigh Distance, Thigh Size, Leg Width, Butt Mass, Hip Width. And a Leg Width slider that I sadly don't know the creator of. I have many sliders and some are many sliders made into one package file by the creator. I tried searching a couple of times. Delete any of your leg sliders that aren't from OEM. For the Leg Width slider you may have to go in and out the game to test which one it is for you.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Isisj18
Title Change

[-Player1-]

Sorry to say it, but that ain't the complete case, chief.

Sliders that alter your spine or your arms too much, affect this, too, for example.

Basically every slider that changes the rig-nodes to another position can cause this for different parts of the body.

Or mods that change rigs for that matter.

Edited July 2, 2022 by -Player1-

[TheLadysGhost]

10 hours ago, Isisj18 said:

Delete any of your leg sliders that aren't from OEM.

Or, apply the sliders in question to a Sim and test the slider before tossing it. I have found only one type of leg slider that caused "crazy legs", and that was a "knock knees/ bow legs" slider. There have been other discussions of this issue on various threads including a few animations threads and Passion... possibly KW thread too.

9 hours ago, -Player1- said:

Sorry to say it, but that ain't the complete case, chief.

Sliders that alter your spine or your arms too much, affect this, too, for example.

Basically every slider that changes the rig-nodes to another position can cause this for different parts of the body.

Or mods that change rigs for that matter.

Those generally do not cause the leg problem mentioned. Sliders (especially height) will cause animation alignment problems more than anything else. I have back arch slider (I made) that alters several spine and arm bones, and the only real problem is hand position during some animations, but no crazy distortions as with the legs folding backwards with knock knee slider. I may or may not return to that project to try to sort out hand position throughout slider range.

Spoiler

Feet and hand sliders have their own issues.

Edited July 2, 2022 by TheLadysGhost

[landess]

Just test the damn things in CAS. If any part of the body 'moves' position, that will affect how things line up.

 

If the Sims feet 'move/slide' forwards or backwards while moving a slider - that will affect the feet position while executing animations.

 

And the BUTT slider is a BIG offender. I have 3 different ones myself.

 

One trick is to make the sim 'fatter' and then use sliders to 'slim' the Sim. Nothing works perfectly when changing the 'rigs' default position. Some points along the 'skeleton' are just more sensitive to change than others.

 

Sadly, using a custom body is the superior way to have a unique look that generally doesn't have an issue with animations, but then each clothing piece is also a 'body' in it's own right and won't match up to any custom body unless outfits are made specifically for that shape. So changing the default body with sliders gives us more options, AND headaches.

 

 

Just wanted to add that my journey using sliders has been interesting. Whenever I see default Sims having sex and everything lines up perfectly, I have to take responsibility for my choices in customizing Sims. Some of the better 'shaped' Sims will be NPC's whom generally will never engage in Woohoo or other animations beyond their 'profession'. Occasionally when they do it isn't pretty.

Edited July 2, 2022 by landess

[TheLadysGhost]

1 hour ago, landess said:

And the BUTT slider is a BIG offender. I have 3 different ones myself.

During my brief stint into the wonderful world of sliders, I learned that (example) a butt slider moves at least the next bone on either side as an opposite, but not necesarily numerically equal amount, and does move bone position. I was honestly amazed at all that goes into sliders!

 

Bigger butt = pelvis bigger (I think on y axis) and moved back, and spine 0 (and maybe spine 1) above, then (I forget which) rt and left thigh twist and or thigh compression below the pelvis are also counter adjusted. The "ripple effect" may go further, not sure without opening a butt slider in the tool.

 

Been a while, and forget how many bones I move for that back arch slider... maybe 10 or 12, including both boobs and shoulders and hands.

 

Never did find why waist slider moves the arms in or out.

[landess]

1 hour ago, TheLadysGhost said:

Never did find why waist slider moves the arms in or out.

 

It's probably tied to the default weight morph so the arms don't collide with the body as weight is added. Luckily it (waist slider) never affects hand position during animations. I can't say the same for the shoulder width slider though - that one WILL mis-align the hands during animations including the basics like eating. Narrow shoulders will make the hands 'miss' the mouth to one side or the other. Fortunately the alignment isn't severe - not like the foot position/angle from the knees when messing with the butt slider.

 

Even little things like the posture slider will make sexual animations not line up correctly, and for male sims it takes some tweaking to get right: By moving the hip angle with posture and/or butt angle sliders, one now has to mess with the penis angle. So a male with 'bad' posture must angle the pecker down some for example.

 

It's all academic at this point. Use requires attention to the effect any slider creates and the player must decide what is acceptable for them.

[TheLadysGhost]

1 hour ago, landess said:

It's probably tied to the default weight morph so the arms don't collide with the body as weight is added.

Not sure how or if... One of the things I learned about arm position is that it appears to be information inside of the bonedeltas. I am not the most technical person, but I found that there are 5 bonedeltas for each outfit, top or bottom, which correspond to morphs. I exclude shoes, as it seems the ones used for those do not have anything to do with anything above the ankles, aside from adding 54, 55 and 56, which are to alter height.

 

Example being swimsuit versus mascot outfit, and relative arm positions. Another of the FemmeBot figure it out things... Although they have no morphs, I had an issue of the hands resting inside of the hips. I began substituting various bonedeltas from different outfits, and the arms moved to a good resting postion. Been so long that I forget which outfit. Deeper thought, that it may be more about outfits and bottoms! Face slap moment!!! Thanks!!!!!!!!!! My bot bodies are based from servobot TOP. A top requires a bottom for arm position, as various skirts may need arms out more than others. Hmmmmm.....

 

Although, it IS entirely possible that EA tied bonedeltas into the skeleton in a way that the waist is the key bone... spine 0. Hip and butt sliders mostly work on pelvis bone which is just below the spine 0. But, I am rambling now! Simply will have to look into it more when time allows.

 

As I wrote, I was very surprised by how many bones are changed when making some sliders, because of "ripple effect", and need to counter one bone moving the adjacent bone and then the next, and possibly the next. I won't share my back arch/ waist depth slider, as it does cause issues that I'm aware of, but have not figured out how to fix... and just do not feel like dealing with complaints from people that do not read the warning label with skull and cross bones!!!! ?

 

Besides, I went off on another tangent and am trying to make below the knee, open bottom formal dress for MedBod. ))) AND trying to figure out why I was not able to make the other outfit as top and bottom, because I had a horrifying waist seam visible when I tried as top and bottom. ((( Josh has been trying to help me find what I did wrong to cause that. We know it is on my end, as my base was his MedBod nude top and bottom, which work perfectly. OY! I can admit it was me... usually is! )))

[landess]

49 minutes ago, TheLadysGhost said:

But, I am rambling now!

 

Nah.

 

I've caught a couple things myself 'recently'. I mentioned an ankle seam with those tip-toe feet without shoes - it's tied to hip sliders along with things like body weight (lack of) and some leg sliders showing a slight increase to the hip effect.

 

Another is a couple anklets have nothing to do with ankle position and seem tied to the body height. I've experimented some with making legs shorter and that CC will drop into and through the foot (attached to some invisible location defined by body height) as I shorten the legs. I acquired a body length slider and was trying to keep some sims the same height while lengthening torsos and shortening legs.

 

I also refreshed some information about saved sims and their outfits creating possible waist seam issues if saved with certain outfits. Apparently importing those Sims can have a waistline gap when wearing anything else besides those clothes. It must change the default information the game has to work with when loading those Sims for game use.

[TheLadysGhost]

1 hour ago, landess said:

tip-toe feet without shoes

Ones I made? Don't remember if I sent those to you to test, and then never got around to uploading... as has been with a lot lately. In fact, I think that if I did, I have since remade them because of the seam issue... AND never got around to packaging them. (((

 

I find that around the ankles needs 2 bones... each leg. X amount of foot bone, and Y amount of calf bone. Should stay in place and move with the ankle, and not distort if painted solid with only 2 bones. Had to play with that on Wilma Flintstone bottom with giant pearls.

 

Most of my females, I use a lot of sliders... most by OEM, but also from a few others. Everything I do messes with animation alignment! Josh's, or my high heels... make her shorter with 3 or 4 different sliders, PLUS 2 body girth sliders, width and depth. You may have the same torso and leg sliders I use, plus arm length after shortening torso. Then Cmar's total height slider if I want even shorter. From there, it can be almost anything. Males, I generally just use Cmar slider to make taller, and girth sliders to make wider and thicker. Always adjust head size to fit a bigger or smaller body. )))

 

Saved Sims? Or downloaded? I do not recall you downloading many, and it seems weird that a saved Sim would do as you describe. I have MANY other things go sideways with my saved Sims, as I constantly delete and replace my older work, and sometimes new packages are made from new files as I may have lost the originals.

 

 

Making a longer dress for MedBod. ) Had fun with the Go-Go outfit!

[Isisj18]

16 hours ago, -Player1- said:

Sorry to say it, but that ain't the complete case, chief.

Sliders that alter your spine or your arms too much, affect this, too, for example.

Basically every slider that changes the rig-nodes to another position can cause this for different parts of the body.

Or mods that change rigs for that matter.

What you mentioned is sliders that adjusts the height, which I already know the consequences of. Not the problem I addressed. Height differences don't bother me.

[Isisj18]

9 hours ago, landess said:

Just test the damn things in CAS. If any part of the body 'moves' position, that will affect how things line up.

 

If the Sims feet 'move/slide' forwards or backwards while moving a slider - that will affect the feet position while executing animations.

 

And the BUTT slider is a BIG offender. I have 3 different ones myself.

 

One trick is to make the sim 'fatter' and then use sliders to 'slim' the Sim. Nothing works perfectly when changing the 'rigs' default position. Some points along the 'skeleton' are just more sensitive to change than others.

 

Sadly, using a custom body is the superior way to have a unique look that generally doesn't have an issue with animations, but then each clothing piece is also a 'body' in it's own right and won't match up to any custom body unless outfits are made specifically for that shape. So changing the default body with sliders gives us more options, AND headaches.

 

 

Just wanted to add that my journey using sliders has been interesting. Whenever I see default Sims having sex and everything lines up perfectly, I have to take responsibility for my choices in customizing Sims. Some of the better 'shaped' Sims will be NPC's whom generally will never engage in Woohoo or other animations beyond their 'profession'. Occasionally when they do it isn't pretty.

I never looked into the technical things I guess. Butt sliders wasn't the problem for me and I wanted an easy fix instead of constantly going in and out of game. I already do that enough in other situations. I just thought it might work for lazy simmers like me because it worked for me. Now my sims have sliders and their legs no longer bend. Everyone can do the method that works best for them. When a sim is taller or shorter than the other I notice a difference, but that's not the issue that bothers me.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Isisj18

[peanutbutterjam1]

If there's one thing I've noticed about our little Sims community - 

 

When trying to be helpful, you will often hear a lot of ill-toned pushback (however well-intentioned it may be)

 

I appreciate the info OP. Was just looking into the topic myself.