[Question] Some newbie questions on the CK.

[Lyman the Lunatic]

20 minutes ago, neghthraw said:

I have literally no idea why it does not work on neutral/passive NPCs. 

 

Is it possible because of the keyword? Is there a way to edit the keyword itself? How do I do that?

[Lyman the Lunatic]

40 minutes ago, T-lam said:

Guard

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Use draw stamina, no duratation recover

Block stamina regeneration recover, little less than slow.

All my magic effects are constant

Recover is important, otherwhise the effects on AV will be permanent.

I think I am confused by what you meant. Is this the proper setup you're talking about?
 

Spoiler

 

 

[Tlam99]

downloaded your file. You had some severe breaking stuff in there, overwriting original bows.

I deleted those and copied the MGEF, OBJEFFECTS and other stuff into it.

Explosion not bound to all effects. Check it out, all resources should be there now.

 

Spoiler

Tauriel.7z

 If you want Keywords, make a duplicate and rename in your file. It's then exclusive for your effects. (If not adding to other mods)

[Lyman the Lunatic]

8 minutes ago, T-lam said:

downloaded your file. You had some severe breaking stuff in there, overwriting original bows.

 

Explosion not bound to all effects. Check it out, all resources should be there now.

 If you want Keywords, make a duplicate and rename in your file. It's then exclusive for your effects. (If not adding to other mods)

 

Really? How do you check that? I just tweak magic effects & enchantments & didn't touch explosions or projectiles at all. Is this some sort of CK bug or something? The keyword was a suggestion from the other user to prevent slow spells from cancelling itself. So I must delete & redo everything whenever I change enchantments to prevent this from happening, then?

[Tlam99]

you need to make always a copy, do never edit original stuff.

Keyword is for the dispell option to add it new on recast (rehit)

Xedit to check, shows the overwrites, also easy for copying stuff as new record, is more clear to see the things.

For easy stuff like this, Xedit is the way to go. CK for more complicated, bind scripts etc.

[Lyman the Lunatic]

7 minutes ago, T-lam said:

you need to make always a copy, do never edit original stuff.

Keyword is for the dispell option to add it new on recast (rehit)

Xedit to check, shows the overwrites, also easy for copying stuff as new record, is more clear to see the things.

For easy stuff like this, Xedit is the way to go. CK for more complicated, bind scripts etc.

Sounds like I need to learn how to use xedit, then.
But I'm confused a little, I did copied the magic effects, enchantments, projectiles & explosions. Xedit said I didn't? Or do you mean if I want to edit the effects I already made, I have to copy it & delete the old one? (as in. I create a magic (slow) effect, saved it, when I want to edit it (slow), I have to copy it (slowDUP001) & delete the old effect (slow)?).

[Lyman the Lunatic]

45 minutes ago, T-lam said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Tauriel.7z 1.63 MB · 1 download

 

 

Maybe something is broken on my end? I tested your bow & no slows applied.

 

Spoiler

  

 

 

I tried the bow on a horse & a sabre cat, no slows applied.

 

Spoiler

 

Tried it on NPCs. Nothing happened.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Tlam99]

I copied all in. I don't use special arrows with explosion.

Then I left your stuff, so there might be wrong references.

 

OK, I just post my whole mod, it's FE flagged, so no problem with LO.

This works for me, as shown in vid.

 

Spoiler

SLOWBOW.7z

 

It's a complete mod.

[neghthraw]

52 minutes ago, T-lam said:

downloaded your file. You had some severe breaking stuff in there, overwriting original bows.

I deleted those and copied the MGEF, OBJEFFECTS and other stuff into it.

Explosion not bound to all effects. Check it out, all resources should be there now.

 

  Hide contents

Tauriel.7z 1.63 MB · 1 download

 If you want Keywords, make a duplicate and rename in your file. It's then exclusive for your effects. (If not adding to other mods)

Is there a specific reason why your bow enchantment applies the "AlterationMaster100 "Master Alteration" [PERK:000C44BA]" Perk? And why did you change the enchantment on one of the explosions? One applied a constant effect, the other fire&forget, for testing if the different types influence the outcome. Now both use the same fire&forget effect and only have a different name.

When I try your bow from the esp, no effects get applied to passive/neutral/friendly/enemy characters. The stamina absorption and slow do not work for me, but I don't know why. I see no obvious reason why it should not work.

[neghthraw]

8 minutes ago, neghthraw said:

I see no obvious reason why it should not work.

Found the error, your records are Form Version 44 (Skyrim SE), the rest of the mod is Form Version 43 (Skyrim LE).

SE Mods don't work in LE.

[Tlam99]

Reason for perk, overcome some resist issues.

I changed one explosion to show how it's done, you need to attach the proper effects, never tested, it's an example.

Do not use your mod and my mod together.

If it's not working, you might have a messed up save with your overwrites. 

I copied everything into your mod without attaching it, as I assumed you want to learn and create it. It's not a finished mod.

The complete one, this is finished and tested, works well for me.

[Lyman the Lunatic]

58 minutes ago, neghthraw said:

 One applied a constant effect, the other fire&forget, for testing if the different types influence the outcome. Now both use the same fire&forget effect and only have a different name.

 

 Umm... I made that. T-lam suggested a Constant Effect so I tried. I don't see the difference when tested, actually. And my game is still in LE so I don't know where the SE is from.

[neghthraw]

15 minutes ago, Lyman the Lunatic said:

Umm... I made that. T-lam suggested a Constant Effect so I tried. I don't see the difference when tested, actually. And my game is still in LE so I don't know where the SE is from.

Form 43 and 44 are the data formats used by Skyrim esps. Form 43 is used by Skyrim LE Mods esp, your esp uses this. The records T-lam copied into your esp (his version of the magic effects and enchantment) have a different data format, Form 44, which is newer and used by Skyrim SE. Skyrim LE does not know this format and can't use it, this is why his enchantment does not work in Skyrim LE. 

[Lyman the Lunatic]

1 hour ago, T-lam said:

I copied all in. I don't use special arrows with explosion.

Then I left your stuff, so there might be wrong references.

 

I see...
I just tried the bow you send & it worked. Although this seems to mean that if I want to enchant a weapon with slow effect, I have to manually do it with the CK which was the reason why I wanted to put on arrows, but I guess this is a way to practice in the long run?

I also found some blank effects & I don't know should I be worried but it seems to work, so now I'm confused as to how do I do it. Or is this something you do with xEdit?

I guess what I just want to know so I can do it on my own next time.
 

Spoiler

 

 

[Lyman the Lunatic]

16 minutes ago, neghthraw said:

Form 43 and 44 are the data formats used by Skyrim esps. Form 43 is used by Skyrim LE Mods esp, your esp uses this. The records T-lam copied into your esp (his version of the magic effects and enchantment) have a different data format, Form 44, which is newer and used by Skyrim SE. Skyrim LE does not know this format and can't use it, this is why his enchantment does not work in Skyrim LE. 

Oh...
So that means I have to re trace the Magic Effects & add everything again on my end, right?
EDIT.
How do I tell if something is Form 43 & 44? Is this a part where I have to know how to backport stuff into LE?

[neghthraw]

59 minutes ago, Lyman the Lunatic said:

Oh...
So that means I have to re trace the Magic Effects & add everything again on my end, right?
EDIT.
How do I tell if something is Form 43 & 44? Is this a part where I have to know how to backport stuff into LE?

You can see it in xEdit, I don't think you can see it in the CK.

Edit: There is no safe way of backporting from SE to LE I know of, and I don't know how much the LE CK actually shows from Form 44.

[Tlam99]

1 hour ago, Lyman the Lunatic said:

also found some blank effects & I

You can fill in the same effect or another one. 

Like effect A will now be effect A. Or effect A will now be effect B.

If you fill another one in, then the effect changes to this.

At the end, leave it blank.

[Lyman the Lunatic]

1 hour ago, neghthraw said:

You can see it in xEdit, I don't think you can see it in the CK.

Edit: There is no safe way of backporting from SE to LE I know of, and I don't know how much the LE CK actually shows from Form 44.

I've just discovered that xEdit is TES5Edit. I feel like a massive idiot right now...
I actually have no idea how to use it besides basic cleaning. But even that, 1 of my save game has been completely broken because a mod creator insisted the TES5Edit will fix the issue of the mod made by said creator I was having at the time.

But I've discovered something about as to why the slow effects on the arrows stopped working on passive & neutral NPCs. I removed the MagicSlow keyword & now it works. Guess I have to make the slow effect stacks instead. (EDIT: Still doesn't work on horses)

Based on yesterday's comment made by you. I don't understand "...edit the condition on the magic effect to be at least greater than 10, depending on what % of speed you want the enemy to have as a minimum." as to where is this condition you're talking about.
Yeah I'm sorry I'm a bit thick when it comes to these stuff...

Spoiler

 

[neghthraw]

1 hour ago, Lyman the Lunatic said:

But I've discovered something about as to why the slow effects on the arrows stopped working on passive & neutral NPCs. I removed the MagicSlow keyword & now it works. Guess I have to make the slow effect stacks instead. (EDIT: Still doesn't work on horses)

https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Enchantment

You can also set the "Extend duration on recast" checkbox on the enchantment, that should have the same effect as the keyword.

 

1 hour ago, Lyman the Lunatic said:

But I've discovered something about as to why the slow effects on the arrows stopped working on passive & neutral NPCs. I removed the MagicSlow keyword & now it works. Guess I have to make the slow effect stacks instead. (EDIT: Still doesn't work on horses)

Yes, that is the condition on the screenshot.

[Lyman the Lunatic]

42 minutes ago, neghthraw said:

https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Enchantment

You can also set the "Extend duration on recast" checkbox on the enchantment, that should have the same effect as the keyword.

 

 

Yes, that is the condition on the screenshot.

Do you think this is a good value? I have a feeling turning the condition too high will break it. But at the same time, I want to be able to see clearly that it actually works.
 

Spoiler

 

 

[Tlam99]

If you include effects from potions, which are constant effects, all castings types must be constant.

 

https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Magic_Effect

 

 

• All of the effects on a Spell or Enchantment must have the same casting type.

[neghthraw]

15 hours ago, Lyman the Lunatic said:

Do you think this is a good value? I have a feeling turning the condition too high will break it. But at the same time, I want to be able to see clearly that it actually works.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

The condition is required to avoid reducing speedmult to or below zero, so it should always be greater than the slow itself. So yes, anything greater than 20 for the condition in this case works.

The exact value of the condition depends on what you want the target to have as remainining minimum possible speedmult after your slow. For example, if you want your target to have AT LEAST 20 speedmult after your slow, you would have to set the condition to >= 40 (or > 39). This would cause the target to always have 20 to 39 speedmult left* (20 if the target was at 40 or more before the slow, otherwise whatever the target had smaller than 39 because then the slow would not get applied) (*unless some other slow without proper condition gets applied afterwards).

[Lyman the Lunatic]

55 minutes ago, neghthraw said:

The condition is required to avoid reducing speedmult to or below zero, so it should always be greater than the slow itself. So yes, anything greater than 20 for the condition in this case works.

The exact value of the condition depends on what you want the target to have as remainining minimum possible speedmult after your slow. For example, if you want your target to have AT LEAST 20 speedmult after your slow, you would have to set the condition to >= 40 (or > 39). This would cause the target to always have 20 to 39 speedmult left* (20 if the target was at 40 or more before the slow, otherwise whatever the target had smaller than 39 because then the slow would not get applied) (*unless some other slow without proper condition gets applied afterwards).

I see...
I've been confusing what the !=, => actually works. But I've been reading about it on the CK wiki. Now I'm mostly trying to find the right parameters at this moment. Magnitude 20 with Condition 25 doesn't seem to slow enough.