Gossip | A fame framework

[SkyLover37]

20 hours ago, Barka said:

@SkyLover37 Do i need to install SexualFame mod to use your script? Can you explain how to properly use it?

Extract the SLSFtoGossip zip to {xEdit install Location}\edit scripts

 

Download and install SLSFComments and its dependencies

 

Run xEdit and select Gossip, State of Dress, and SLSFComments. The dependencies will automatically load.

 

Run the SLSFtoGossip from anywhere, it's hardcoded for SLSFComments ATM.

 

After it's run, SLSFComments should not longer have dependencies to SLSF and SLSF can now be disabled.

 

The script changes conditions in SLSFComments, instead of making a new ESP.

Edited March 31, 2023 by SkyLover37
Added more detail to potential confusion

[gimmepopcorn]

I've run the script and somehow it still has the SLSF as master. Also I had to copy the files from lib folder to the edit script folder to make the script run despite having ticked the box to include scripts from subdirectories. I'm a little bit at a loss what I could have done wrong here...

Edited March 30, 2023 by gimmepopcorn

[SkyLover37]

25 minutes ago, gimmepopcorn said:

I've run the script and somehow it still has the SLSF as master. Also I had to copy the files from lib folder to the edid script folder to make the script run despite having ticked the box to include scripts from subdirectories. I'm a little bit at a loss what I could have done wrong here...

I looked into it, I tested with an older version of SLSFComments. I will update xEdit script with needed logic.

[gimmepopcorn]

32 minutes ago, SkyLover37 said:

I looked into it, I tested with an older version of SLSFComments. I will update xEdit script with needed logic.

Thank you for your work!

[SkyLover37]

I do not know how long it will take, hopefully end of day. In the mean time, the version I made the script on is 2.1. Which appears to still be on the comments download section.

[gimmepopcorn]

no worries, I can be patient

[SkyLover37]

Uploaded new version of the edit script. Comments uses stuff from ZaZ other than bondage KW, so that won't be removed as a dependency.

[revelatian]

ok so odd question, after installing the mod and running the script, are we removing the SLSFComments esp and mod?

[SkyLover37]

1 minute ago, revelatian said:

ok so odd question, after installing the mod and running the script, are we removing the SLSFComments esp and mod?

SLSFComments stays, SLSF can be disabled.

[Barka]

@SkyLover37 Thanks for explanation. 

But gossips doesn't works: i walking naked, NPC make a default naked comments, comments from Baka's mods but fame about exhibitionism doesn't change.

[SkyLover37]

10 hours ago, Barka said:

@SkyLover37 Thanks for explanation. 

But gossips doesn't works: i walking naked, NPC make a default naked comments, comments from Baka's mods but fame about exhibitionism doesn't change.

Do you have gossip events.esp?

 

[libertyordeath]

I've skimmed every single page, so lemme see if i get this right. The differences between this and SLFF are:

 

1. This one is actively developed and doesn't have restrictive licensing terms

2. This one is still buggy and unstable, while SLFF is more stable

3. This one has no supporting content yet, meaning it does nothing ATM. 

 

I would be willing to say: "Sure, everyone gotta start somewhere. I'll keep an eye on how this develops, although one year without any content is not a good omen in terms of pacing."

 

Except i never used SLFF much either, since its design was critically flawed. The fame categories had no individual scaling, meaning some categories would always outscore the others. Take being naked for example: Any fame category that gets points for being naked will outpace the others, since people are usually naked when having sex. Hence ANY sexual act would make the framework think the player is an exhibitionist. It's similiar for sluttiness, since that one basically counts any human-human sex that is not prositution. Same problem also for visible cum on body.

 

Now here's the real question: When i discussed this design flaw with others years ago, the answer was nothing can be done about it, since the mod was abandonned and stuck in license hell. According to you, active development and liberal licensing is the whole point of this new mod. So are those design flaws going to be adressed? Or will you just copy SLFFs homework verbatim?

 

Here's another problem: From a gamplay and immersion POV, fame comments do not happen out of nowhere. Realistically it shouldn't be like the player does something 20 times before getting the first feedback. At the same time, it's not plausible either for every NPC suddenly commenting for something the player did 2 or 3 times. So what would be expected? How could it work immersively?

 

IMO the answer is there are two seperate types of comments: Immediate comments from people witnessing an act, and longterm "reputation/fame". In other words: Longterm fame builds from repeated immediate reactions of witnesses.

 

Conceptually that's simple enough. But it does mean technically a mod like this should handle BOTH types of comments - immediate reaction and longterm fame - but for this it basically would also need to handle "spectators", which in terms of code vastly increases the scope and complexity?

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by libertyordeath
Spelling

[SkyLover37]

54 minutes ago, libertyordeath said:

 

2. This one is still buggy and unstable, while SLFF is more stable

 

Unless anyone reports they are having issues, I wouldn't call it buggy or unstable. Values are recieved and stored, and the current region globals get filled when entering a region.

 

54 minutes ago, libertyordeath said:

Now here's the real question: When i discussed this design flaw with others years ago, the answer was nothing can be done about it, since the mod was abandonned and stuck in license hell. According to you, active development and liberal licensing is the whole point of this new mod. So are those design flaws going to be adressed? Or will you just copy SLFFs homework verbatim?

I disagree with the premise it is a design flaw. Just because your doing 1 thing more than the others doesn't mean the more actively gained fame should be reduced. If your walking around constantly naked, the towns gonna think your an exhibitionist. If you fucked an animal in town as much as your seen naked they would think your super into beastiality. If your ONLY naked, you get 1 exhib per person who sees you. I dunno how many npcs there are in every town, but I believe youd have to purposely be seen by every npc just to break 30 exhib. 

Edit:

I feel exhibitionist gain is fine, but other types of fame probably need to be raised to parity with exhibs gain. Like, just having sex with an animal once should be enough to raise beastiality fame by a minimum of 10, and that lowballing IMO.

 

54 minutes ago, libertyordeath said:

Here's another problem: From a gamplay and immersion POV, fame comments do not happen out of nowhere. Realistically it shouldn't be like the player does something 20 times before getting the first feedback. At the same time, it's not plausible either for every NPC suddenly commenting for something the player did 2 or 3 times. So what would be expected? How could it work immersively?

 

IMO the answer is there are two seperate types of comments: Immediate comments from people witnessing an act, and longterm "reputation/fame". In other words: Longterm fame builds from repeated immediate reactions of witnesses.

 

Conceptually that's simple enough. But it does mean technically a mod like this should handle BOTH types of comments - immediate reaction and longterm fame - but for this it basically would also need to handle "spectators", which in terms of code vastly increases the scope and complexity?

Immediate comments have nothing to do with this mod. There are plenty of variables that mods already use to have NPCs comment on their current predicament.

 

Edit:

Not saying your wrong, just saying your ideas are don't seem to be relevent to Gossips mod development itself. And more about how other mods should integrate with the framework. Which is cool to have the discussion, as it can lay ideas for people to use if they wish to. The whole reason I separated the internal gains into a separate plugin was so others who don't like my interpretation of fame gain can make their own.

 

Edit 2:

Best blanket solution would probably be to just have an extensive MCM for gossip events... I hate making mcms...

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by SkyLover37

[libertyordeath]

Thanks for the quick answer.

 

Not interested then. Good luck.

[libertyordeath]

3 hours ago, SkyLover37 said:

Edit 2:

Best blanket solution would probably be to just have an extensive MCM for gossip events... I hate making mcms...

 

 

 

LOL, that was also the conclusion years ago:

 

Me: "Just make the scaling of categories, decay over time, and thresholds for comments, configurable. Then anyone can tailor it to his taste."

Someone else: "Ugh, even if this thing wasn't stuck in license hell, that would mean having to code an MCM. I hate doing those."

 

Quote

Not saying your wrong, just saying your ideas are don't seem to be relevent to Gossips mod development itself. And more about how other mods should integrate with the framework. 

Oh yeah, the usual LLabs patchwork approach. Excuse me while i run for the hills. Nothing personal. I just have watched this community and the software it creates long enough from a distance, to have developed robust sense of sarcasm. Seriously, you could write a sitcom parody about this community repeating the same memes over and over, while expecting a different outcome.

Edited April 4, 2023 by libertyordeath

[Barka]

On 3/31/2023 at 7:30 PM, SkyLover37 said:

Do you have gossip events.esp?

 

Yup

@SkyLover37 Console show me that's my fame change after sex, but in Show fame - all stats are at 0

Edited April 5, 2023 by Barka
update

[SkyLover37]

11 hours ago, Barka said:

Yup

@SkyLover37 Console show me that's my fame change after sex, but in Show fame - all stats are at 0

Can you post your log?

 

Edit: 

Nvm, found the issue.

Edited April 5, 2023 by SkyLover37

[Saint_Olaf]

Yes I started multiple times with a clean new character. 

I have an issue with Gossip where after a little while to corrupts my saves. Particularly the last save. I can sometime load the previous save, let the game load, then load the save I wanted to load. Other times I can only load my original clean new save, let it load up, then load the save I want, other times it just corrupts the game all together and it wont run until I start a new game again. Then it repeats. Confirmed by testing several times. Uninstall and sometimes I can use the saves, sometimes they just crash. 

 

If I remove gossip, everything seems to run fine. I am certain I am getting some kind of conflict. I have like 400 mods so its not surprising. I will give gossip a try again next time. 

 

When I checked the saves with resaver it points to gossip as the issue. 

[SkyLover37]

15 minutes ago, Saint_Olaf said:

Yes I started multiple times with a clean new character. 

I have an issue with Gossip where after a little while to corrupts my saves. Particularly the last save. I can sometime load the previous save, let the game load, then load the save I wanted to load. Other times I can only load my original clean new save, let it load up, then load the save I want, other times it just corrupts the game all together and it wont run until I start a new game again. Then it repeats. Confirmed by testing several times. Uninstall and sometimes I can use the saves, sometimes they just crash. 

 

If I remove gossip, everything seems to run fine. I am certain I am getting some kind of conflict. I have like 400 mods so its not surprising. I will give gossip a try again next time. 

 

When I checked the saves with resaver it points to gossip as the issue. 

can you upload the save so I can look at it?

 

And is it gossip or the events esp

Edited April 5, 2023 by SkyLover37

[Saint_Olaf]

2 hours ago, SkyLover37 said:

can you upload the save so I can look at it?

 

And is it gossip or the events esp

I am sorry I dont really remember. It did have 2 related to gossip. I am certain its clashing with another mod causing it. There are alot of WIP mods right now. 

I deleted all of the saves already and started a fresh game. I will come back and update when I start a new play through. 

[Saint_Olaf]

2 hours ago, SkyLover37 said:

can you upload the save so I can look at it?

 

And is it gossip or the events esp

Actually, just went back and looked through my installed list. 

The ones I had to disable to get it working were Gossip, Gossip Events and also Fame framework and fame comments. I think they were not playing nice. 

 

Just looked at resaver again and just looked at what else on the list is causing issues - Six of them are from Fame... SLSF, SLSF Function access, and SLSF Utility, a few others.... Its disabled... Crud.. I bet there is no issue with gossip and its all Fame... Likely. Its just fame messing up gossip, they probably do similar things and I was a dummy for putting both of them. You get to messing through 400+ mods its hard to keep track of what you have done. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Saint_Olaf

[SkyLover37]

22 minutes ago, Saint_Olaf said:

Actually, just went back and looked through my installed list. 

The ones I had to disable to get it working were Gossip, Gossip Events and also Fame framework and fame comments. I think they were not playing nice. 

 

Just looked at resaver again and just looked at what else on the list is causing issues - Six of them are from Fame... SLSF, SLSF Function access, and SLSF Utility, a few others.... Its disabled... Crud.. I bet there is no issue with gossip and its all Fame... Likely. Its just fame messing up gossip, they probably do similar things and I was a dummy for putting both of them. You get to messing through 400+ mods its hard to keep track of what you have done. 

Gossip Events distributes a spell to all NPC's for LOS tracking, I personally noticed no issues with this. But maybe this is causing issues? You can try removing gossip events and see if the saves can load again.. 

 

There wont be any conflict from using SLSF and gossip at the same time, they may do similar things, but they are entirely independent.

[igor09999]

Gossip_DISTR.ini сauses a crash to the desktop when loading to the menu(before the display of the inscriptions new game). Maybe it's a conflict with other mods, but without this file everything works fine. Unfortunately, I could not understand how to work xedit. Therefore I did not turn off SLSF. Mb conflict with it. But, if the problem can be in the file, I will be grateful if I can fix it. The mod looks very interesting.

I apologize in advance, English is not my first language.

[Saint_Olaf]

2 hours ago, SkyLover37 said:

Gossip Events distributes a spell to all NPC's for LOS tracking, I personally noticed no issues with this. But maybe this is causing issues? You can try removing gossip events and see if the saves can load again.. 

 

There wont be any conflict from using SLSF and gossip at the same time, they may do similar things, but they are entirely independent.

Im guessing that whatever went wrong with fame is probably causing all of the issues. I will have to check for its incompatibilities. Could be a chaining cascade effect lol. 

 

The odd thing is fame is disabled and still causing issues and still throwing errors. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Saint_Olaf

[Talesien]

So, if I've Gossip 1.0.1 installed, can I upgrade or is a new game required regardless?