Thank You Dragonporn!!

[Absurdity]

My honest opinion? People getting harassed by fanboys or trolls? That's just an average day on the internet and there's not much you can do about it. Can't handle it? Sucks to be you...

[gwyllgi]

i feel lost, what is dragonporn?

[Jexsam]

My honest opinion? People getting harassed by fanboys or trolls? That's just an average day on the internet and there's not much you can do about it. Can't handle it? Sucks to be you...

This is the greatest thing I've read on TES modding in general ever.

[quin666]

i feel lost, what is dragonporn?

http://dragonporn.ldblog.jp/

You really need surf internet bro.

 

 

My honest opinion? People getting harassed by fanboys or trolls? That's just an average day on the internet and there's not much you can do about it. Can't handle it? Sucks to be you...

This is the greatest thing I've read on TES modding in general ever.

 

Why so damn funny! 

[VectorPlexus]

The reason of this thread is pretty much the same as blaming a butterfly flying in Paris, for causing a tornado in Toquio... I blame the OP for... hmmm how can I put this politely... lack of brain cells! (seriously...)

[quin666]

The reason of this thread is pretty much the same as blaming a butterfly flying in Paris, for causing a tornado in Toquio... I blame the OP for... hmmm how can I put this politely... lack of brain cells! (seriously...)

Mad have wait long time for new toys. If good modder you know

close shop just because can't take heat you get mad too.

[medic975]

No one has any idea what was said to make her close the blog to all but friends. I don't agree with all the can't take the heat comments. If you're spending the time needed to make something on the level of quality that we see from Grace's stuff and then a bunch of asshats come in and say who knows what. She's not obligated, by any stretch of the imagination, to be required to listen to it in order for us to get our shinies. 

 

The internet is a cesspool of thoughtless comments. all powered by the lack of consequences for anyone who makes them. I'll miss her stuff, I'll keep my eyes peeled for more of it to pop up, but I'll never blame her for declining to take abuse, if that's even what happend,  of any sort in order to provide a person she's never met with an shiny outfit, hair, or accessory.  

 

She doesn't owe me shit really. So, I'm thankful for the mods of hers I do have. Sorry some trash made us wait longer for more of them or not get them all together.

[Shaydow]

I kinda hope she comes and joins us at the fetish ball. Its kinda nice here. One thing I can say for LLab is it does, mostly, seem like a community of modders and mod users that are largely friendly and do the best they can to help each other and all that stuff. Though on the other hand.....if the issue is a problem with content being redistributed without permissions, we are kind of part of that culture of problems...as a community, ourselves cause we'll literally do anything we can to get our hands on the shinies and we have very few scruples about permissions unless there is a direct request to remove the content.

 

So if it is a permissions issue, we're kind of hypocrites ourselves at times....we'll rape every link we can find to get content that 3dm has posted that we're "not supposed to get from anywhere else". So I don't think we should really....uh...stand on the whole "yeah screw those people at Dragonporn and their community that reposts stuff without author permissions"...cause we're kind of part of that problem too....we're just lucky that we have a lot of modders here that share their stuff directly as well.

 

I dunno, I still think she should join us at the ball, just the same.

 

Thing with permissions, is it is almost always NEVER needed, only rude not to get / and or give credit when you can. See further below.

 

I really don't understand the 'don't repost without permission' thing.

 

I mean, I'll respect the mod author's wishes but releasing something on the internet and then getting irked about it being reposted elsewhere without permission? It's inevitable that it's going to get reposted, just by the nature of the internet. And if it's a mod that everyone likes, it's going to show up everywhere...

 

This ^

 

 

I really don't understand the 'don't repost without permission' thing.

 

I mean, I'll respect the mod author's wishes but releasing something on the internet and then getting irked about it being reposted elsewhere without permission? It's inevitable that it's going to get reposted, just by the nature of the internet. And if it's a mod that everyone likes, it's going to show up everywhere...

 

Reposting with credit is one thing. Reposting without is another.

 

Using resources in mash ups and distributing them without permissions or credit is a whole different thing.

 

I recently did a minor rework of the Gatti Jewel Bikini, I still haven't heard back from Gatti on whether I can share the work I did on it or not and as I don't have permissions, I haven't posted it...though I have posted images of it on my LL Blog.

 

Gatti may never get back to me...but far as I can see from the Nexus page for it...no implicit permission to modify and redistribute was ever given, so even if people wanted what I've done with the outfit, I personally wouldn't distribute it publicly.

 

 

I disagree. Using assets released by an independant modder that has no legal claim to the assets at all is not wrong IMO. They are not trademarked, they do not ask for royalties, they are not trying to sell them as private mods. It's kinda my problem with Nexus. These are people that made something and said " HERE! I worked hard on this and I hope you enjoy it, but you can ONLY DO EXACTLY WHAT I WANT YOU TO WITH THIS EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T HAVE TO ..... OR ELSE! " and it is insane. What I don't understand is why so many "freeware" modders STILL seem to have this mentality....

 

I still agree though using another modders assets and NOT giving credit for the FREE assets you used is RUDE, however, that's ALL it is.... rude.

 

It depends on how it is being used. you might not mind if a mod you made was just posted somewhere else (I know I wouldn't) but what if your mod is posted to a site designed so that the person posting it can make money off of it would you still be fine with it once you learned that?

 

I'd be furious if I found out a mod I made was making someone else money.

 

P.s. I'm not saying this is what happened it's only an example.

 

Edit: Another example.

 

Here is a pic of something I'm working on a re texturing of newermind43's Elven Archer Armor I have one in Green/Sepia and this one in Red/Grey even though I have these and they are to a point I could release them I wouldn't as I do not have newermind43's permission to do so.

 

 

 

 

And this is why the modding community still has a long way to go. You entered into no legal contract when you downloaded the mod, the person has no legal claim to the assets your changing / using, and yet you won't release it because you " don't have permission ". 

 

As for people "selling" mods or even " slightly changed " mods..... if the modding community was more open as a whole instead of " NO MINE MINE MINE! " you would see this wouldn't really be a big problem, as sites wouldn't feel the need to hide or disallow changes to others work, meaning you would have FREEly available to you what it was you were looking for.

 

Closing : I've released a rather goodly amount of things. Some are completely made by me, meshes / textures / everything. Some are retextures that almost entirely change the way the mesh looks. Some are simple retextures that change say blue to black. Some ( though I admit the least amount ) are just a simple mashup with NOTHING else done other then " hey this looks cool right? If you think so and like it, here ya go! ". You will see I never say " you need my permission for X " or " I used Y from this from Z person so ask them ".  I never say ANYTHING about it? Why? Because as soon as I say "here", it's out there, and not only do I already know people are going to do with it whatever they want regardless of what I say about it, I REALLY don't give a shit anyway! The whole point of DOING it was because I was the one that liked it. I SHARED it because I thought other people might like it to. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, and maybe they don't like that green I added and wanted black, or think what I did would look better if that bracelet just wasn't there. To judge would be ( and IS ) extremely egotistical and arrogant on my part, and the part of any other modder.

 

Just sayin.

[chukkyjr]

^i thought we already got over that problem since that might not be the problem for Grace?

 

 

Some CSI

The post that redirected the ppl to her blog. http://dragonporn.ldblog.jp/archives/7078380.html

Comment #17:

17. Grace Darkling 2013年05月05日 02:11
Greetings! There is an update on My Blog and SkyNex. I hope you Enjoy.

Machine Translate
挨拶！私のブログとSkyNexの更新があります。楽しんでもらえたら、嬉しいです

Cached version of GD blog, 5 days old ATM google cache

Comments:

Dragonporn
25/04/2013 at 01:57
great work !
I am writing a blog in Japan.
Is this okay to an article in my blog?
sorry my english

Grace Darkling
25/04/2013 at 02:00
Yes its fine, many thanks!

I don't see any fault of dragonporn. They did their job, maybe too well. I'm guessing spam or rude manners of dragonporn users.

 

 

 

Your right it's not the fault of the site itself just some of the people who go to it a lot I guess.

 

 

[lordofthedread]

 

I kinda hope she comes and joins us at the fetish ball. Its kinda nice here. One thing I can say for LLab is it does, mostly, seem like a community of modders and mod users that are largely friendly and do the best they can to help each other and all that stuff. Though on the other hand.....if the issue is a problem with content being redistributed without permissions, we are kind of part of that culture of problems...as a community, ourselves cause we'll literally do anything we can to get our hands on the shinies and we have very few scruples about permissions unless there is a direct request to remove the content.

 

So if it is a permissions issue, we're kind of hypocrites ourselves at times....we'll rape every link we can find to get content that 3dm has posted that we're "not supposed to get from anywhere else". So I don't think we should really....uh...stand on the whole "yeah screw those people at Dragonporn and their community that reposts stuff without author permissions"...cause we're kind of part of that problem too....we're just lucky that we have a lot of modders here that share their stuff directly as well.

 

I dunno, I still think she should join us at the ball, just the same.

 

Thing with permissions, is it is almost always NEVER needed, only rude not to get / and or give credit when you can. See further below.

 

I really don't understand the 'don't repost without permission' thing.

 

I mean, I'll respect the mod author's wishes but releasing something on the internet and then getting irked about it being reposted elsewhere without permission? It's inevitable that it's going to get reposted, just by the nature of the internet. And if it's a mod that everyone likes, it's going to show up everywhere...

 

This ^

 

 

I really don't understand the 'don't repost without permission' thing.

 

I mean, I'll respect the mod author's wishes but releasing something on the internet and then getting irked about it being reposted elsewhere without permission? It's inevitable that it's going to get reposted, just by the nature of the internet. And if it's a mod that everyone likes, it's going to show up everywhere...

 

Reposting with credit is one thing. Reposting without is another.

 

Using resources in mash ups and distributing them without permissions or credit is a whole different thing.

 

I recently did a minor rework of the Gatti Jewel Bikini, I still haven't heard back from Gatti on whether I can share the work I did on it or not and as I don't have permissions, I haven't posted it...though I have posted images of it on my LL Blog.

 

Gatti may never get back to me...but far as I can see from the Nexus page for it...no implicit permission to modify and redistribute was ever given, so even if people wanted what I've done with the outfit, I personally wouldn't distribute it publicly.

 

 

I disagree. Using assets released by an independant modder that has no legal claim to the assets at all is not wrong IMO. They are not trademarked, they do not ask for royalties, they are not trying to sell them as private mods. It's kinda my problem with Nexus. These are people that made something and said " HERE! I worked hard on this and I hope you enjoy it, but you can ONLY DO EXACTLY WHAT I WANT YOU TO WITH THIS EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T HAVE TO ..... OR ELSE! " and it is insane. What I don't understand is why so many "freeware" modders STILL seem to have this mentality....

 

I still agree though using another modders assets and NOT giving credit for the FREE assets you used is RUDE, however, that's ALL it is.... rude.

 

It depends on how it is being used. you might not mind if a mod you made was just posted somewhere else (I know I wouldn't) but what if your mod is posted to a site designed so that the person posting it can make money off of it would you still be fine with it once you learned that?

 

I'd be furious if I found out a mod I made was making someone else money.

 

P.s. I'm not saying this is what happened it's only an example.

 

Edit: Another example.

 

Here is a pic of something I'm working on a re texturing of newermind43's Elven Archer Armor I have one in Green/Sepia and this one in Red/Grey even though I have these and they are to a point I could release them I wouldn't as I do not have newermind43's permission to do so.

 

 

 

 

And this is why the modding community still has a long way to go. You entered into no legal contract when you downloaded the mod, the person has no legal claim to the assets your changing / using, and yet you won't release it because you " don't have permission ". 

 

As for people "selling" mods or even " slightly changed " mods..... if the modding community was more open as a whole instead of " NO MINE MINE MINE! " you would see this wouldn't really be a big problem, as sites wouldn't feel the need to hide or disallow changes to others work, meaning you would have FREEly available to you what it was you were looking for.

 

Closing : I've released a rather goodly amount of things. Some are completely made by me, meshes / textures / everything. Some are retextures that almost entirely change the way the mesh looks. Some are simple retextures that change say blue to black. Some ( though I admit the least amount ) are just a simple mashup with NOTHING else done other then " hey this looks cool right? If you think so and like it, here ya go! ". You will see I never say " you need my permission for X " or " I used Y from this from Z person so ask them ".  I never say ANYTHING about it? Why? Because as soon as I say "here", it's out there, and not only do I already know people are going to do with it whatever they want regardless of what I say about it, I REALLY don't give a shit anyway! The whole point of DOING it was because I was the one that liked it. I SHARED it because I thought other people might like it to. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, and maybe they don't like that green I added and wanted black, or think what I did would look better if that bracelet just wasn't there. To judge would be ( and IS ) extremely egotistical and arrogant on my part, and the part of any other modder.

 

Just sayin.

 

 

Thats one of the greatest things I read today.

 

One things modders should understand is that if they used Bethesda tool to make a content for a Bethesda game then Bethesda owns the said content, that is pretty much what they did with Heartfire while not specifically using modders work they did use the idea (maybe because they are nice guys who knows or maybe because they already had the content at hand..).

 

If tommorow bethesda wanted to include one of the mods out there for their next game they would have the right to unless it is from another game like Tera armors for example.

 

Either you release your mods as free in any free modding website and you can expect people to repost them or you keep them for yourself, I totally agree that credits should go to whoever made the hard work but I disagree that a free mod should be linked in one place only over the whole internet.

 

As modders you should realize that getting so personal with the content you created is hoilding the whole community back as each time you want to improve something you have to ask for stupid permissions.

 

I worked in GIT communities in the past and it was going fast because people were freely sharing their work.

 

By the way I am pretty sure that selling mods is against Bethesda policy.

 

And before I get flamed this is just my humble opinion and I dont hold any holy thruth in that matter, I just believe that we could go further and faster working as a group than each one working on its own.

[Jexsam]

I disagree. Using assets released by an independant modder that has no legal claim to the assets at all is not wrong IMO. They are not trademarked, they do not ask for royalties, they are not trying to sell them as private mods. It's kinda my problem with Nexus. These are people that made something and said " HERE! I worked hard on this and I hope you enjoy it, but you can ONLY DO EXACTLY WHAT I WANT YOU TO WITH THIS EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T HAVE TO ..... OR ELSE! " and it is insane. What I don't understand is why so many "freeware" modders STILL seem to have this mentality....

 

I still agree though using another modders assets and NOT giving credit for the FREE assets you used is RUDE, however, that's ALL it is.... rude.

It's about respect more than anything, primarily from modders to the community, but also from the community to the modders.

 

You're very right, there's nothing they can legally do if you distribute their work, but if they ask nicely in their terms of use for you not to distribute/modify and distribute it, doesn't that make you kind of a dick if you do it anyway? The is someone else's hard work and you're just riding the gravy train when you regurgitate it with a slight recolor. You should be thanking them for their work, and the best way to do that is to respect their wishes (kudos and thumbs-up are meaningless crap).

 

By the same token, I think it's disrespectful of modders to put too many restrictions on their works. "Don't distribute without credit" and "Don't modify and distribute without permission" I can understand. I'd want my work to have my name on it, too, and I can see why some people would be antsy about others messing with their stuff when the author felt it was fine as is. But it's one thing to care your work being attributed to you and meeting some standard quality, and another thing entirely to laugh in the collective face of the unwashed masses as you wave your mod in front of them but refuse them the blessing of being able to download it, let alone use its assets.

 

That's why the only mod I ever put out here, SexoutRocket, came with three stipulations; no rape, no kiddie porn, and put my name in the credits. I respect the community's right to mess with what I made, and in return I expect my simple wishes to be adhered to. I don't wave mods you'll never have in front of you (intentionally, anyway), I don't require permission be asked for every little thing. I just want my name on it, and I don't want anything in it I wouldn't put my name on.

[Adam Jensen]

I'm late to the party, but I would appreciate it if anyone can fill me in. What exactly did Dragonporn did to piss her off? I normally enjoy DP's hilarious pictures with the whiterun guard so it is a shame.

[Absurdity]

I'm late to the party, but I would appreciate it if anyone can fill me in. What exactly did Dragonporn did to piss her off? I normally enjoy DP's hilarious pictures with the whiterun guard so it is a shame.

 

DP didn't really do anything. Just your regular internet trolls that seem to have pissed off Grace Darkling.

[dobmc]

The guy(s) who run Dragonporn did nothing wrong. It's retarded to blame the Dragonporn blog for this. If I had to take a guess: It's just another case of delicate and sensitive feelings being hurt and causing someone to restrict or take down stuff. This is nothing new and this won't be the last case. The fact that there is no real explanation given other than a vague comment about someone doing something that one might possibly interpret as a negative thing makes me think that this is most likely the case. I mean, "thanks to guys who read the DP-blog and their culture", what kind of a statement is that.

 

 

Plus, any kind of "Punish everyone for the mistakes of a few" action is not something that should be defended, ever. Imo.

Just as what the wise person says: "You never know everything".

 

He, Internet.

[VictoriaG]

The blog is open again.

[lordofthedread]

I really think that if Medusa and Drakul armor was bugged with clipping or something, anyone fixing them should be welcome to use the meshes, I think you should not have to ask permission that may not be granted to do a basic recolor that many other people could enjoy using and I still think that credits should be given to the orignal author no matter what, this is just common sense.

 

I understand totally as an artist that you want your work to bear your name but each time you make a screenshot do you ask for permission for the mods you are using? Because if I follow your logic, a screenshot is a piece of art by itself (and I agree some are indeed) so to make this piece of art you used assets from other artists, coders and modders.

 

I am not an artist and I dont even mod because I dont have any free time to do so, when I did had time to code for myself I indeed signed it but I always released it for free because it could help others and if anyone was stupid enough to remove my name from the code to put their instead then I would just consider that as a loss of time on their part.

 

I think you are right, that is the difference between artists and others but there is also a difference between modding for a game and making art from scratch, especially when you release your work for free in a modding community.

[Thornez]

Hey Guys,

 

Some FAQ

 

Q) Why dont you use LL?

A) Because in the early days it was really nasty, i saw someone's signature with a cat tied to a rocket, made me feel physically sick.  LL has its place and is needed but i can't shake that memory of it.  I had to make an account when you added links to images.

 

Q) What did Dragonporn do?

A) Nothing, I chose my words carefully, If i had use the word Japanese i would have looked like a xenophobe.  

 

I thought everyone knew that Dragonporn does not host mods, its a  review site, with that knowledge it would be obvious that they did not steal my mods.

My mods are available on all sites, I always say yes when asked for permissions to host on other sites.

 

I do not allow minor edits to be re hosted on nexus by people who just want the glory without doing any work.

 

The recent problems arose when i hosted a mod my little sister made that was originally created by a japanese guy. He has been offline for several years, contact was attempted, there was no reply. So i hosted the mod anyway.

I have been told, and also experienced, that there is a culture of " westerners steal our mods" and vice versa, some japanese are very old fashioned in this and will move mountains to cause trouble for westerners who host eastern mods.

 

This person did not simply troll post.  I work in CSR, trolls are nothing to me, as evidenced on my front page by the way i handled capt morgan.

 

To give the actual details of what he did would be foolish and provide a way for more spiteful, mentally retarded people of all nationalities to hurt all modders. because he did indeed cause me some trouble and time.

 

I was in contact with the dragonporn blog owner both before and after this event, Wordpress Logs all IP addresses and i provided the trouble makers IP to Dragonporn to pass to the rest of his community.  Hopefully they can deal with this particular "person" in the way he deserves.

 

Q) Is your blog now open?

A) Semi, anything hosted on Nexus or non mod related is open to the public, anything else is password protected.  I know the password wont stay secret for very long and i am looking into better alternatives than blogging, If anyone has any affordable, Bulletproof,  Black Hat-esque private hosting solutions then please contact me.  I need a front door and a file server.  I cannot design webpages, im too busy, so ideally i need it to be user friendly.

 

Other notes

I know that forums and drama go hand in hand, but im very busy, i work, i game, i create and sleep and eat.  I am not a forumite.  So please dont rant at me for my opinions or actions because i wont have time to reply.  I dont have to share my work, in the old days i simply shared via pm to my closest friends only, Blogging was a way to open up my work to shy people and people who had no reason to contact me.

 

I didn't read the long posts about permissions etc here but i did read the concise posts and i think i have covered everything you asked.

[dobmc]

Cool, I learned today that people are always ignorant. And staying ignorant without bothering to understand both sides result in more confusion and chaos. Surprised that I'm still learning.

[FaithC]

I saw the original post on DragonPorn and can see in no way how DragonPorn could possibly be in the wrong on this.

 

DragonPorn is a review site and did what DragonPorn always does so well, took their own screenshots, reviewed the mod and posted links to the author's site, in this case Graces site. This just seems to be another one of those fragile ego (or sensibility)  things I'm afraid. If you publish work to a medium such as the internet then I am guessing that as an artist you want exposure for your work.  Setting boundaries on where you want your work to be reviewed is nonsensical. 

 

If Grace received an influx of negative comments from visitors perceived to originate from DP to her site, then either comments should have been moderated or switched off, or simply just left as an open record.  I can say one thing from experience though, that their are always plenty more fish in the sea, and limiting your audience is one of the fastest ways to kill a site. That audience will take a long time to grow back.

 

Sorry, but I think DragonPorn is blameless in this.