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Wyre Bash vs Mator Smash vs SSEEdit vs ZEdit


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Hello, this question was asked multiple times but i didn't find a satisfying answer.

So far i always used zEdit to merge my plugins to get below the 254(253) esp Limit. Then i created a merged patch with SSEEdit and resolved remaining (yellow-red) conflicting records by hand until everything is happily Green.

It worked good to me so far but a lot of guides are mentioning a wyre Bash Patch and dont talk about SSEEdit.

I am missing something?
And whats up with mator smash? Out of it`s own description it is way superior to Wyre Bash but no guide is using it.

 

Thanks for your help ?

 

Links:

SSEEdit (xEdit) : https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/164?tab=description

Mator Smash: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/39378

Wyre Bash: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/6837

zEdit: https://github.com/z-edit/zedit/releases

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  • 2 months later...

Sorry for the late answers here:

 

  • Wrye Bash v309 is the latest version.  Several folks that work on Bash also work on xEdit. 
  • Mator originally intended for Smash to be a stop-gap until the massive overhaul of Wrye Bash was completed.
  • MatorSmash and zEdit are unfortunately pretty much Abandonware at this point. I think Mator said he got a job at a software development company and no longer has time to work on gaming stuff.
  • As of Wrye Bash v308 it is no longer necessary to create a SSEEdit merged patch.   Version 308 also introduced a lot of functionality and record handling that made MatorSmash obsolete.
  • Also make note that "all green" is not necessarily good. Some mods work by completely overwriting the records in other masters or mods and correctly display as red in xEdit.
Edited by Mertz
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On 6/6/2021 at 10:15 AM, Mertz said:

Sorry for the late answers here:

 

  • Wrye Bash v309 is the latest version.  Several folks that work on Bash also work on xEdit. 
  • MatorSmash and zEdit are pretty much Abandonware at this point. I think Mator said he got a job at a software development company and no longer has time to work on gaming stuff.
  • As of Wrye Bash v308 it is no longer necessary to create a SSEEdit merged patch.   Version 308 also introduced a lot of functionality and record handling that made MatorSmash obsolete.
  • Also make note that "all green" is not necessarily good. Some mods work by completely overwriting the records in other masters or mods and correctly display as red in xEdit.

So I have a rather technical question for you  . . .

I like Wrye Bash, and have used it for a long time.

However, if you go to the link in my signature that is for SOS Revealing armors, there is a detailed explanation of the issue.

 

Boils down to, why do the patchers (not just Wrye) fairly regularly not forward the KYWD data?

 

I have a solution for it detailed there, but it's more of a cludge . I would like to have a way to get all the data into the patch, not manually editing it, or playing with LOOT's metadata.

 

Thanks for your time.

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On 6/8/2021 at 1:24 AM, judge007 said:

Boils down to, why do the patchers (not just Wrye) fairly regularly not forward the KYWD data?

 

There are a lot of factors that could affect this, like some other plugin somewhere else in your load order a "Keywords" tag that makes its KYWD records clobber the BD plugin.

 

I took a look at the BDSkimpyClothes.esp plugin and it didn't have any Bash Tags at all. I ran a quick query and the plugin probably needs these tags, and definitely the "Keywords" tag:

 

Graphics,Keywords,Names,Stats

 

5 hours ago, N.Gamma said:

Does this mean that Wyre Bash has now integrated the Merged patch, or how do I understand this?

 

The short answer is Bash now has had that functionality built-in and is automated.

 

The long answer is that the Merged Patch was, like Mator Smash, a work-around while the huge array of patchers (there are over 30) in Bash was ported and updated for Skyrim LE/SSE. That has been completed and then some.

 

You can still build a manual Merged Patch if you want but it isn't absolutely necessary.

 

Edited by Mertz
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38 minutes ago, Mertz said:

 

There are a lot of factors that could affect this, like some other plugin somewhere else in your load order a "Keywords" tag that makes its KYWD records clobber the BD plugin.

 

I took a look at the BDSkimpyClothes.esp plugin and it didn't have any Bash Tags at all. I ran a quick query and the plugin probably needs these tags, and definitely the "Keywords" tag:

 


Graphics,Keywords,Names,Stats

 

 

The short answer is Bash now has had that functionality built-in and is automated.

 

The long answer is that the Merged Patch was, like Mator Smash, a work-around while the huge array of patchers (there are over 30) in Bash was ported and updated for Skyrim LE/SSE. That has been completed and then some.

 

You can still build a manual Merged Patch if you want but it isn't absolutely necessary.

 

Thanks for responding.

 

I used Loot to add the tags you suggested, and it worked.

Where in xEdit can I see the actual Tags?

Is there a script for xEdit to apply Bash Tags?

And {final annoying question, I promise!}, is there a place to go to read up more on the process?
 

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5 hours ago, judge007 said:

Where in xEdit can I see the actual Tags?

 

Look at the File Header of the plugin. The Bash tags are usually put in the Description field.  Some mods like the Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch have enough bash tags to overflow the header field so they include the tags in an external BashTags file that goes into the Data folder.

 

5 hours ago, judge007 said:

Is there a script for xEdit to apply Bash Tags?

Yes I think a tagging script ships with xEdit called "Generate Tags for Wrye Bash." You can search for "Bash" in the script list and it will be one of the options.   It should print out a list of the records it found and the reasons it suggested them. Use your own discretion as to which tags you choose to include with the plugin.

 

5 hours ago, judge007 said:

And {final annoying question, I promise!}, is there a place to go to read up more on the process?

 

 

The authoritative source of info on Bash Tags is the Bash Advanced Readme. It goes into the reasoning and logic behind the tagging system and explains a few ways to tag mods,  I prefer tag files because they survive plugin updates, so if the author forgets to tag their update you still have the tags. LOOT also keeps a decent database of tags but like tags in the headers, those are locked to that particular version of the plugin.

 

https://wrye-bash.github.io/docs/Wrye%20Bash%20Advanced%20Readme.html

 

Purely for reading up on Wrye's reasoning and idea behind the Tag system you can read his write up on the topic on the original (and fairly out of sync with current Wrye Bash) Wrye Musings page: http://wryemusings.com/Wrye%20Bash.html#BashTags

 

The TLDR of Tagging is:  tag what  record types you want to be considered as important by the patcher when it comes to decision time.  Adjustments to load order and even excluding mods during the patching process (just uncheck the box while the patch is building) can also help achieve the results you want in the Bashed Patch.

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Thanks for the info, I was still using ssemerged adn wyre!

 

11 hours ago, Mertz said:

Yes I think a tagging script ships with xEdit called "Generate Tags for Wrye Bash." You can search for "Bash" in the script list and it will be one of the options.   It should print out a list of the records it found and the reasons it suggested them. Use your own discretion as to which tags you choose to include with the plugin.

 

I couldn't find the "generate tags for wrye bash" but I did find this (updated recently too 16months compared to 2015 etc). Not tried it yet but thought I'd share.

 

https://github.com/fireundubh/xedit-scripts/tree/master/all

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3 hours ago, pinkfluf said:

Thanks for the info, I was still using ssemerged adn wyre!

 

 

I couldn't find the "generate tags for wrye bash" but I did find this (updated recently too 16months compared to 2015 etc). Not tried it yet but thought I'd share.

 

https://github.com/fireundubh/xedit-scripts/tree/master/all

 

Yep that is v1.6.3 and that is the one I use.

 

Thank you kindly for linking it into the thread so folks can find it. I was wrong about it being included in xEdit by default.  My xEdit is a Frankenstein monster built off of one of Sharlikran's builds and apparently he had kindly included the older version.  I keep both around just in case.

 

bash-scripts.png.8b8ab2745d8870d590a0a3ab63e09269.png

 

v1.6.3 has all of the new Skyrim-specific Bash Tags in it so it is much better.

 

Edited by Mertz
Glitchy images and typos got me
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  • 1 month later...
On 6/12/2021 at 8:59 AM, Mertz said:

 

v1.6.3 has all of the new Skyrim-specific Bash Tags in it so it is much better.

 

 

Can you please explain, briefly, the key patching required with the tools today on a new skyrim modlist? People still talk about cleaning masters, which AFAIK isn't really helpful. Is it still worth using Mator Smash? Is there a guide somewhere out there?

 

Thanks!

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3 hours ago, 7osisg4d said:

 

Can you please explain, briefly, the key patching required with the tools today on a new skyrim modlist? People still talk about cleaning masters, which AFAIK isn't really helpful. Is it still worth using Mator Smash? Is there a guide somewhere out there?

 

Thanks!

 

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zEdit and Mator Smash are falling behind rapidly.

MatortheEternal has left the modding world, and zEdit hasn't seen updates in a while.

 

xEdit on the other hand is SSEEdit, FO3Edit, OBEdit, FNVEdit, TESVEdit, EnderalEdit, EnderalSEEdit & FO4Edit.

It receives updates and is maintained on a regular basis.

Google "Tome of xEdit" for more info

 

Wrye Bash also is maintained and updated regularly.

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  • 11 months later...
On 6/6/2021 at 12:15 PM, Mertz said:

Sorry for the late answers here:

 

  • Wrye Bash v309 is the latest version.  Several folks that work on Bash also work on xEdit. 
  • Mator originally intended for Smash to be a stop-gap until the massive overhaul of Wrye Bash was completed.
  • MatorSmash and zEdit are unfortunately pretty much Abandonware at this point. I think Mator said he got a job at a software development company and no longer has time to work on gaming stuff.
  • As of Wrye Bash v308 it is no longer necessary to create a SSEEdit merged patch.   Version 308 also introduced a lot of functionality and record handling that made MatorSmash obsolete.
  • Also make note that "all green" is not necessarily good. Some mods work by completely overwriting the records in other masters or mods and correctly display as red in xEdit.

Hi @Mertz, given that as of v308, and now v310 is out, Martor Smash is obsolete and we no longer need to create an SSEEdit Merged patch either (which is great since it isn't loading my whole mod list since it is counting ESPFEs/ESLs), what are the new recommendations for what to check in Wrye Bash as of v310?  The guides I've read till now mainly recommend uncheck everything except for "Import Names, Import Stats and Leveled Lists" in Wrye Bash (except for @judge007's that pretty much checks everything - perhaps that's because that guide was created for v308?).   Thanks!

Edited by MalicoVuckovic
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/30/2022 at 10:26 PM, MalicoVuckovic said:

What are the new recommendations for what to check in Wrye Bash as of v310?  The guides I've read till now mainly recommend uncheck everything except for "Import Names, Import Stats and Leveled Lists" in Wrye Bash (except for @judge007's that pretty much checks everything - perhaps that's because that guide was created for v308?).   Thanks!

 

Sorry for the late reply.

 

Normally you should leave everything checked because Bash will read all of your mod plugins and let you know what it thinks it should do.  Conversely, don't check any boxes that aren't already checked.

 

If you built your original Bashed Patch with a bunch of things unchecked, I'd suggest you delete your existing bashed patch and just create a new one with v310.   That way you get all the new goodness from v310

 

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