As there is boob physics and cape physics, why no hair?

[Guest Yarrmor]

I was wondering if it really is that hard to make some mod to add a hair style with physics? At least, that's what I read here and there.

[Spyder Arachnid]

I'm assuming you're talking about something like this?

 

http://blogs.amd.com/play/tressfx/ (TressFX Hair)

 

If so, Skyrim doesn't offer support for it...... yet. It's just one of those things that seems rather hard to do at the moment as the engine itself doesn't offer the compatibility for it. But if someone finds a way to get it working in Skyrim, I'm sure you'll see it soon enough.

 

I personally love TressFX. Can't play TR without it.

[Guest Yarrmor]

Well yeah, I started playing Alice: Madness Returns yesterday and I couldn't help but feel Skyrim needed that awesome hair physics...

[Thulas]

Those good ol' days with Alice. I personaly doubt that anyone will be able to create a stable system for it that doesn't cause massive fps-losses. Wouldn't be bad thou to see that I am wrong.

[canderes]

If anyone is willing to do this in nifskope, I have yet to do this, but I'm positive it would work well, you can go to either xp32 or dragonflys skeleton and make all of the hair bones (except the one stuck directly to the head) use a bslagbone\bslagbonecontroller. The downside is that it would apply the slow effect to all hair meshes using the bone, which could be good or bad. If you have used one of the early versions of chsbhc you'll understand what I mean. The bones move with a delay and if you make any fast movements or twists whatever is skinned to the bones animates almost like it were being affected by wind. The really good thing about it is that the hair will never animate the same way, it moves with delay according to what you are doing, and there are no pre-animated segments. The bad thing about it is that it can get really stretchy and cause some intense deformations, which is why you don't want to make the bones closest to the head and the head use the controller. After today (I work night shift) I have 3 days off from work. Once I get that unp butt bounce working for the tbbp thread I'll go and see if I can rig one of apachiis hair or one that I have to see if it is worth the time and effort. If everything works out, no animation for the hair will be needed; only rigging will be required to make use of the  bslagbones\bslagbonecontroller.

 

As for the cape problem people seem to have (it wrapping around your character) I don't think there's anything we can do about it. The bones from above could probably also make convincing capes. If Skyrim does indeed use Havok destruction then someone would need to buy a license to make things like fabric animate correctly. Even if someone had the money to do it I'm willing to bet Havok and Bethesda would immediately shoot down any request or suggestions to do so.

[LolGG]

The closest thing I thought in order to emulate it is if we add extra bones to the skeleton that control these functions.

[LaEspada]

I believe XP32 made one hair physics while moving. But he didn't release it as you can see.

 

His compatibility skeleton has hair bones for future modders to use, but no one has dared to do so yet. Well at least publicly.

[Croi]

Dont really know if this is what your looking for but this really old video shows that hair animations are atleast possible in skyrim. Its kind of basic but i would still really like to have this in my game Dont know if this was ever released.

 

 

Btw this was long before xp32's skeleton

[ultrakey]

Dont really know if this is what your looking for but this really old video shows that hair animations are atleast possible in skyrim. Its kind of basic but i would still really like to have this in my game Dont know if this was ever released.

 

 

Btw this was long before xp32's skeleton

Yeah.I found one in another forum.I just can`t remember where.And the one i found is already released. 

[canderes]

Not quite what I had imagined but its a start I guess. Some rotation noise could probably be added to the top most hair bones to make it look like its waving. None of it is animated I just changed the bones to use bslagbonecontroller. I had to rerig this hair to use the left right and back hair bone chains.

 

 

Fuck I wish we had access to the verlet plugin they use. I always liked the hair effects from dead or alive. Would be nice for clothing too, but I guess these lagbones are better than nothing

 

[Croi]

Found a download link to a hair physics test mod from this vid. adds a wig that replaces glass helm

 

 

d/l link:http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=4393&uk=4063101389

[Veta]

Those aren't physics they are animations , therefore will require specific skeletons and run animations which can break a shitload of mods .

[Croi]

Those aren't physics they are animations , therefore will require specific skeletons and run animations which can break a shitload of mods .

 

sorry thats what i meant. it includes anims and a skeleton and didnt cause much problems with my 200+ mod install. Dont think anyone would actually use it for anything other than testing anyway. i just thought people would be interested in trying it out. You can use NMM if you're worried about messing up your game.

[Veta]

Don't get me wrong ,it looks great but it breaks mods like bbp and wots which is not worth it ^{that's just my opinion though}  .

 

 

great pic by the way .

[Croi]

Don't get me wrong ,it looks great but it breaks mods like bbp and wots which is not worth it ^{that's just my opinion though}  .

 

 

great pic by the way .

 

You're right tested it ingame and does seem to break tbbp, but if u use normal bbb body or armour its fine. If anyone trys it just remember to keep your armour on!! And it definitely is not worth using ingame.

 

Tnx btw

[Mana Yakushima]

That's Dragonfly's video. I don't think anything ever came of it, besides that hair being posted? Someone should get Apachii to give this a try though, since literally everyone uses her hair mod :3.

[canderes]

The problem with that is no animations exist for that skeleton which use the hair. Most of the animations made even the most detailed ones only go far enough to animate the wings, boobs, ass, or camera in mid animation, but I have yet to see anyone create an animation for hair. You could rig the hair to use the bones, but for the bones to do anything they must first be driven by animation.

 

On another note I started to dig around for behavior stuff. It makes more sense now than it did when I had just started using havok. I am using what I am able to piece together from theru posts all over the nexus forums on how to setup a new behavior file. There are modifiers you can apply in the behavior tool which apply jiggle, rotations and things like that to bones using havok. I am not far in enough to see if this could be used to generate dynamic animations in the game but once I am able to build my own behavior I am going to try to see if that can be used for things like hair hanging bones (faking cloth animation) and whatever else I can piece together from the tool. It may be a while before I have anything good since it seems like something really difficult to pick up. From what I gathered around nexus the only people able to generate custom behaviors were theru, saiden, and someone from here; if you are reading this I am not going to pester you for information I want to figure it out on my own and try to write up some kind of guide if I get a thorough understanding of how this shit even works. Theru requested a ban on the nexus forum I'm sure she got annoyed about pms relating to that stuff.

[Arilia]

Breasts are usually one object apiece, while hair has thousands of strands. It'd probably need to be a core engine thing to do hair right like in Tomb Raider. Good hair is a complex and recent development in computer graphics, and Skyrim's engine is somewhat old.

 

 

[VectorPlexus]

Why dont you use the same design structure I'm using for SOS? a specific skeleton nif is required ofc (but many of you seem to use XPMS, so I dont think thats a problem), but you could use it to animate without breaking any other character animations. And btw Canderes, if you can successfully use the Jiggler Modifier, tell me how, because I tried it (well only 2 tries..) and failed to work. Not giving up yet, but have other important issues to solve. Also, you can even build the behaviour files using the same event names as the main character, because they will be inherited. For example, if you use the event SprintStart (I'm guessing the event name, not sure if its called that way) on the hair, the hair will play that event, whenever the character starts to sprint.

 

I did exchanged some PMs with Theru, but she was very helpful and I even thanked her for her help, and she even sent me her test project from HBT. So I dont think I was responsible for that =S at least I hope not... although I noticed she was banned, it never crossed my mind she was the one requesting it...

 

Not sure if you were talking about me Canderes, but I dont mind if you pester me with HBT questions, although my knowledge is pretty limited compared with Fore, Theru or SaidenStorm.

[canderes]

Na I'm sure it had nothing to do with you, but if you read the old topics everyone seemed to be asking the same general or vague questions over and over (that were already answered before, more than once usually). Likely that she was getting a million messages relating to the same thing "HEY WE CAN ADD ANIMATIONS RIGHT? HEY WE CAN ADD MONSTERS? HEY CAN WE ADD NEW WEAPONS? HEY WE CAN ADD X RIGHT?" with requests and whatnot. I never spoke with Saiden, but he seemed pretty closed in most of the things he posted aswell, I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened to him when he was making things for Oblivion. If nexus is anything like the other places around (cough, cough, facepunch) you get flamed for not uploading exactly what they want or not holding someones hand through every step in the process.

 

I'm going over the documentation a few times; I usually write down tons of notes over and over until I have what it memorized. In the off chance that havok decides to release the 2010 HBT, I am still hopeful they will, I want to know 80-90% of whats in the docs by memory so I can make videos without all the ridiculous terminology. If not then atleast I may discover something to make things easier. I'm still wondering the same thing about the jiggler modifier. I think the nif still holds more of the important information than any hkx except the one that indexes all the events\states. I swear that one rig I had built with hct had no rigid bodies and the game didn't seem to care, but still used the ones in the nif, so it could be that the game is only dependent on havok for the index and track to bone assignments and nothing more like Saiden mentioned. It would explain why those modifiers don't seem to work. I don't want to go and say the console porting caused it, but I am having second thoughts and believe that all that stuff was originally ready for the game, but it had to be removed because of resource limitations and deadlines. We may never know, but if havok intel or bethesda ever has a change of heart and we get a new hbt then we should have better documentation to make cooler shit.

[Brigade]

It would be pretty easy to pull off.... if Skyrim supported cloth physics for more than just one piece of buggy clothing.

[Mana Yakushima]

I think people are misunderstanding what BBP is and game physics. BBP and its other iterations are animations, so in theory applying animations to any mesh in skyrim should be possible. It's just that someone has to burn time solving the difficult problems.

[Cyndi]

Anyone looked into Apex Clothing?  (nvidia physx plug-in dooey for 3ds Max)

I tried to have a look today, but it kept breaking the import function, then crashing 3ds.

I figured I installed it wrong somehow, but after 2 or 3 tries, I'm kinda disinclined to be bothered messing with getting it running.  

It is supposed to support up to max 2012 64bit,  but <I have a potty mouth> 'ed if I could get it to run with my level of patience.

 

 

Edit: Older version 2.7.####etc.  seems to be working, Will post again if I make anything all physicsy and stuffs

 

[Gᴀʟᴠᴀɴɪᴢᴇ]

I figured this topic deserved a bump, especially since I am looking for something like this at the moment, I am sick and tired of my hair just randomly floating off my body.

[winny257]

I had the same question posed quite a long time ago and there is nothing come out.

 

Why is there still no hair with hairphysics !

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/17714-why-is-there-still-no-hair-with-hairphysics/