[WIP]Mermaids

[Suludi]

Oh damn, that sucks. I mean the internet crapping out, not your story (which only slightly derails at the end ). Nice idea for a beginning but I think we also need some underwater quests for the player as a Nereid (merman/maid sounds weird, actually, given the "elf" meaning of mer in the Elder Scrolls universe).

 

Btw, if anyone has a cool idea for an underwater area, let me know. So far, I have

 

- The Chasm - very rocky and dark cave filled with huge, very aggressive slaughterfish & treasure

- The Mirror - a pretty pool with mysterious lights

- The King's Seat - which will be the main dwelling for our underwater people

 

and I'm planning

 

- Underwater Forest - made of huge kelp and other immersive plants

- some coral structure

 

But we have lots of space for more cool stuff.

[mantaman]

kk, but most of the quests following up to the worldspace have very little to do with water, so they'll beshort, and most likely all completeable in under an hour.

 

you run across a mermaid under the dragonsreach bridge, she doesnt explain why she's there, she hands you a glass dagger and tells you to hand it to an argonian friend in riften as a trade for supplies

 

you hand it to said aregonian and he argonian has problems of his own, he lives in a large boat near the riften docks, and thieves are breaking into it at night and stealing stuff, he goes to the bee'n'barb and tells you to stay the night over at his house, you kill the guards, report back to him in the morning, he gives you supplies, and a necklace of waterbreathing

 

you go back to the mermaid, tell her you have the supplies, she tells you to set the supplies down on the opposite side of dragonsreach as the jail entrance, you do so (you lay a tent, bedroll, an unopenable chest and campfire down) and at midnight she crawls all the way there, dries off, gets legs, opens the chest, puts some clothes on and gets a an elven sword

 

she heads back to the boat with you, and asks the argonian if she can get a ride home, the argonian is a retired sailor and has no crew, and makes you recruit the crew, each crew member has a quest tied to them

 

(the argonian wants someone in the imperial army, who can give him free passage on he see, also some muscle) there's an orc in the imperial army, you ask him to join, and he asks you in turn to find his helmet first, its in an underwater cave and being held by a group of argonian bandits, you give him his helmet and he heads to the ship

 

(more muscle, native nord) next is a nord knight, you buy hom 10 bottles of black briar mead, he gets drunk, fist fights you, you knock him out, he gets up, and apologizes, shows you how to fight underwater, then heads for the boat

 

(small person on deck/deck hands) you help a short khajiit woman steal some diamonds from a well, the locals say if she can get them keep them, you swim down the well, get them, give them to her, and she joins

 

(required mage) next you help a REALLY old dark elf train his great great grandson (a breton. <:I) how to use offensive magic by fighting helping the grandson defeat the grandfather, after the fight the grandson heals the grand father, the grandfather then tells you how to harness magic underwater, and they go to the boat

 

(imperials are good with money, and the argonian needs someone to manage and raise his funds) an imperial merchant woman wants proof of your wealth, she demands you buy all 2000 worth of her merchandise

 

(repairman) you meet a redguard blacksmith who joins you for a hundred dollars, claims he has a powerful sword, but never fights

 

after you get the crew, the argonian instructs you to sach a bandit tower near by for supplies, you take the mer, orc, nord, breton restoration mage and khajiit, upon getting there you see an angry mob of villagers, they wanna destroy the bandit tower too, you bring them ten iron ingots and they build a catapult, fire it at the tower, and leave, you run up to the tower to find a female wood elf archer, she explains she was just a hunter that already cleared the tower out and took it for herself, you offer her compensation and she joins the crew. (amputate legs? since that was a hell of a blast, and hey, a quest to get her cool dwemer prosthetics, robot toes!)

 

once you get to the boat, you gather the crew and take off, you'r first ride will be interrupted by pirates attacking, on an island, defeat them, and loot there stuff, headback to the ship and carry on.

 

Lakerise has been discovered and can be fast traveled too

 

only quest i thought of by then was, "No cave for old men" where a group of mers ask you to clear a cave of pirates that got there 70 years ago, the pirates die upon detecting you

 

 

 

fixed from last crappy version

 

 

edit: and for underwater places, how bout an underwater city made of sunken boats? a city on the beach, a really shallow water plateau, part of the trench leads to an underwater cave, and he cave leads to blackreach, coral spriggans? some sunken ships used as bandit hideouts for mers, shark encounter zones aaaaaand a ruined house in the water with a dresser, the dresser has hundreds of boots and shoes and a letter that reads, "The water is getting closer by the day."

 

edit:edit: oh, idea, the mer follower grows a tail in, or near water, and in player homes, when asked why, she says its more comfortable

 

oh, that, and anyone have ideas for diff mer races?

[Suludi]

[quest stuff]

 

I like the idea about gathering the crew. Maybe they can give us some more quests when we arrive in Lakerise.

 

only quest i thought of by then was, "No cave for old men" where a group of mers ask you to clear a cave of pirates that got there 70 years ago, the pirates die upon detecting you

 

I like. Although I hope someone can find out how to enable fighting underwater or throwing spears while swimming at the surface.

 

  

edit: and for underwater places, how bout an underwater city made of sunken boats? a city on the beach, a really shallow water plateau, part of the trench leads to an underwater cave, and he cave leads to blackreach, coral spriggans? some sunken ships used as bandit hideouts for mers, shark encounter zones aaaaaand a ruined house in the water with a dresser, the dresser has hundreds of boots and shoes and a letter that reads, "The water is getting closer by the day."

 

 

This is awesome! I'm so making this! *fires up the creation kit* (not sure about the coral spriggans but it's a great idea, too)

[firepower02]

I don't get it either why they don't share something that can be worked on, just blend or videos.

 

So far I really like what you've done with the underwater world. By triton, do you mean mermans? I hope you can upload your files as something that we can test in game. And yes, please bind the swim animations with very fast.

[Suludi]

Oh, I'm an idiot. I meant trident, not triton, sorry.

 

Okay... I'll have to make the LOD files for the Chasm first, then pack the whole thing together. I have some bad problems with the water though, and I'm currently ploughing through the web in hope of finding answers.

[mantaman]

I don't get it either why they don't share something that can be worked on, just blend or videos.

 

So far I really like what you've done with the underwater world. By triton, do you mean mermans? I hope you can upload your files as something that we can test in game. And yes, please bind the swim animations with very fast.

 

well, i think that that one guy offended Xenos, aaaand EB was gonna wait for Xenos to update his work, if he didnt, EB was gonna release it later (somewhere on the 17th) or if the vast majority of people asked for the models to just be released, since, i guess he doesnt wanna work on it anymore

 

 

[quest stuff]

 

I like the idea about gathering the crew. Maybe they can give us some more quests when we arrive in Lakerise.

 

only quest i thought of by then was, "No cave for old men" where a group of mers ask you to clear a cave of pirates that got there 70 years ago, the pirates die upon detecting you

 

I like. Although I hope someone can find out how to enable fighting underwater or throwing spears while swimming at the surface.

 

  

edit: and for underwater places, how bout an underwater city made of sunken boats? a city on the beach, a really shallow water plateau, part of the trench leads to an underwater cave, and he cave leads to blackreach, coral spriggans? some sunken ships used as bandit hideouts for mers, shark encounter zones aaaaaand a ruined house in the water with a dresser, the dresser has hundreds of boots and shoes and a letter that reads, "The water is getting closer by the day."

 

 

This is awesome! I'm so making this! *fires up the creation kit* (not sure about the coral spriggans but it's a great idea, too)

 

 

oi, have you figured out that whole, slaughterfish attack thing?

 

Oh, I'm an idiot. I meant trident, not triton, sorry.

 

Okay... I'll have to make the LOD files for the Chasm first, then pack the whole thing together. I have some bad problems with the water though, and I'm currently ploughing through the web in hope of finding answers.

 

oh man, tossing tridents

 

but eh, if ya could, and EB either makes them or who ever, it would be great to get mermen in this project.

[Suludi]

well, i think that that one guy offended Xenos, aaaand EB was gonna wait for Xenos to update his work, if he didnt, EB was gonna release it later (somewhere on the 17th) or if the vast majority of people asked for the models to just be released, since, i guess he doesnt wanna work on it anymore

Hm, I really hope he hasn't abandoned it cause if I have to do all the animations, the worldspace AND the meshes, it will take ages to finish. I'm still working on those werewolf animations after all.

 

 

oi, have you figured out that whole, slaughterfish attack thing?

LOL. Please remember that I'm a noob! I have barely figured out how to make a basic, very bad swim animation, I haven't delved into more sophisticated stuff yet.

 

 

but eh, if ya could, and EB either makes them or who ever, it would be great to get mermen in this project.

Yes, it shouldn't be only females again.

 

I think that the meshes can be bound to the animations, just like the flaccid/erect penis meshes are bound to the sex animations. If it's possible to bind "mermaid mesh" to each swim animation, we wouldn't even need a spell, key, or item to change form.

 

We also need someone who knows how to add animations to FNIS.

[mantaman]

yaman, well, we'll know on the 17th, or if we message him for the meshes

 

and ohman, automatic changes? because i just thought for animations: we copy the entire animation list, modify the swim animations, paste it as a new animation set, and make all mers grow tails in water on their AI package

[Suludi]

Alright, here it is: Lakerise for testing. It includes:

 

- a mapmarker on an island northwest of solitude. I gave the island the creative name of, yes, "Lakerise Island". Which is a very subtle hint. *nod* There's a chest with a necklace of waterbreathing, just in case you didn't bring one along. The portal is in the entrance of a cave in the water at the northern part of the island.

 

- Worldspace of Lakerise. Bad LOD, almost no vegetation or buildings, horrible water, horrible worldmap. May screw up your Skyrim LOD but removing the esp and bsa after testing should (HOPEFULLY) fix it. NO Navmesh, so your followers won't be able to move at all. Tell them to wait for you or send them home before you swim through the portal cause they'll probably drown if they follow you (both portals are underwater).

 

- additional small worldspace cave Underwater Chasm Deep. Stupid name, I know. I'll probably change it later. It has one huge slaughterfish which can't attack you if you don't get too close. If you do: it's only level 1.

 

- the three swim animations I made

 

- green water fix and blur fix, so you don't need the one from AltheaR. If you want to keep that one, install Lakerise at the very bottom of your load order. Or, if you prefer Althea's settings, place her fix after Lakerise.esp.

 

- several dirty edits, sorry.

 

I really, really hope this thing doesn't screw up anything on your computers. Be SURE to make at least one backup save before you install it!

 

Installation:

 

Extract the 7z file and put Lakerise.esp and Lakerise.bsa into your Data folder, then enable Lakerise.esp in your Launcher or NMM.

 

 

Okay, after I typed all that, LL will probably refuse my zipped file which is for some reason BIGGER than both bsa and esp combined. I love zips.

 

 

... yeah, right. I can only upload 100 MB, and it's almost 400. Now what?

 

Try Dropbox:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/92545220/Lakerise.7z

[Suludi]

yaman, well, we'll know on the 17th, or if we message him for the meshes

 

and ohman, automatic changes? because i just thought for animations: we copy the entire animation list, modify the swim animations, paste it as a new animation set, and make all mers grow tails in water on their AI package

Or this. I really have no idea, lol.

[NotThatGuy]

If destruction magic had to be added, It'd have to be a completely new kind seeing as fire would do little to nothing in large quantities of water, lightning obviously would be too dangerous, and ice may have odd effects (such as you may end up getting the spell caught on yourself, freezing say an ice spike to your hand, maybe a perk to allow ice magic). Most likely though the ability to send compressed blasts towards others (like currents) would be the most viable.

I'd note that the viability of these magic types under water, and reasons why they may remain viable has previously been discussed:

 

 

 

 

Basically, at least back from my tabletop days, Spells, shouts, and other mystical attacks and defenses would become moot in battle. Fire would be quickly extinguished, Ice would freeze and generalized area starting at the caster, Water and Air would simply cause a current effect (possibly an effect like unrelenting force), and electricity would pretty much rampage both caster and any nearby target. Shouts, well little to no voice underwater would stop them.

 

That would leave melee and unarmed. Depending on how close to reality you would want, it would severely change as well. Spear type weapons would become the dominant types, and only via thrusting means. Slashing, bludgeon, or any swinging type of attack would become severely hindered with water retention. Resulting in slower attacks and minimal if any damage. Missile weapons would primarily become useless with exception to close range crossbow. Then it would at max (meaning point blank) become a thrusting damage scale. Unarmed would be another strong suit of fighting. Mainly grapple and bashing, though the punch and kicks would become slower and hit for less damage.

 

If you wanted a reason for a mermaid race, about the only true viable means would be for underwater breathing, body change in and out of water, and possible underwater villages, ruins, treasure hunting, or caverns to explore.

 

 

While not entirely relevant, I thought I'd note that your issues on what would be useful in water are not entirely accurate.  Fire for example while extinguished, would likely still be fairly dangerous as it would instead result in boiling water to be used.  While how effective it is would vary based on the actual normal effects of the spell and the shape of the area it targets, given the key part of a fire spell's damage is the heat, boiling water and steam can work just as well as fire.

 

As for ice, most ice spells in fiction tend to create some ice object and use it as a projectile.  These would likely be fairly unhindered by being in water, while those that simply make an area of cold would instead cause that area to freeze, possibly being more effective as a result (or having their functionality changed from harming enemies to encasing them).  That said, those that cause a cold enough projectile or area may run the risk of freezing the water around the caster, trapping him or her as well.

 

Water as noted would likely just result in currents, but given that when used out of water it is making water strike with enough force to cause harm (or drowning the target), the currents made will likely similarly strike with such force, making it akin to using air spells in the air.  Air spells in turn would most likely be similar, but with the difference of being air pockets, or just strong currents striking hard enough to cause harm.  While they might be slowed due to added resistance from the water, given the magical nature of the force propelling them, they may well still strike fairly unhindered.  Drowning spells in turn are likely to be entirely unaffected, working on those they would already work on and not those who are normally immune.

 

Electricity as noted would be rather dangerous provided the spell does not actively control the flow of the electricity.  If it does, it may well keep it from spreading freely through the water.

 

As for shouts, sound travels better through water than through air.  However, as you noted, the issue of performing the shout still comes up.  In that regard, if you can't breathe under water, then attempting a shout may well result in you drowning, which rather lessens their effectiveness in combat.  Given that spells in general seem to have verbal components in Skyrim, this would be a problem with most all of them.  That said, for someone like a mermaid who can freely breathe in water, or someone utilizing a spell to do so, they wouldn't have any issue there.

 

All said, magic would tend to work well enough while submerged.  As for physical means of killing people though, what you said is fairly accurate, aside from projectiles still having some effective range, even if it is rather reduced.

 

 

Given you replied to it at the time I expect you were aware of the post.  I'd also add in response to your reply about fire not being able to heat the water sufficiently in an Arctic climate, that if part of the magic keeps the heat contained in the designated area of the spell, rather than allowing it to disperse evenly throughout the water, then it could sill heat it well enough.  Similarly, given that lightening spells rarely are depicted as veering off course to hit nearby possible targets one could assume the magic does properly control the path of the lightening so it does not go off course, thus keeping it safe in the water.  At the very least, one would expect that a race of aquatic beings would make sure to apply proper countermeasures against such backlash for spells they use, which may explain why other races cannot use magic in the water as they have not learned the proper variation to make it safe for the caster.

[mantaman]

Alright, here it is: Lakerise for testing. It includes:

 

- a mapmarker on an island northwest of solitude. I gave the island the creative name of, yes, "Lakerise Island". Which is a very subtle hint. *nod* There's a chest with a necklace of waterbreathing, just in case you didn't bring one along. The portal is in the entrance of a cave in the water at the northern part of the island.

 

- Worldspace of Lakerise. Bad LOD, almost no vegetation or buildings, horrible water, horrible worldmap. May screw up your Skyrim LOD but removing the esp and bsa after testing should (HOPEFULLY) fix it. NO Navmesh, so your followers won't be able to move at all. Tell them to wait for you or send them home before you swim through the portal cause they'll probably drown if they follow you (both portals are underwater).

 

- additional small worldspace cave Underwater Chasm Deep. Stupid name, I know. I'll probably change it later. It has one huge slaughterfish which can't attack you if you don't get too close. If you do: it's only level 1.

 

- the three swim animations I made

 

- green water fix and blur fix, so you don't need the one from AltheaR. If you want to keep that one, install Lakerise at the very bottom of your load order. Or, if you prefer Althea's settings, place her fix after Lakerise.esp.

 

- several dirty edits, sorry.

 

I really, really hope this thing doesn't screw up anything on your computers. Be SURE to make at least one backup save before you install it!

 

Installation:

 

Extract the 7z file and put Lakerise.esp and Lakerise.bsa into your Data folder, then enable Lakerise.esp in your Launcher or NMM.

 

 

Okay, after I typed all that, LL will probably refuse my zipped file which is for some reason BIGGER than both bsa and esp combined. I love zips.

 

 

... yeah, right. I can only upload 100 MB, and it's almost 400. Now what?

 

Try Dropbox:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/92545220/Lakerise.7z

broken link

[Suludi]

I noticed... it takes TWO HOURS to upload.

 

 

 

edit: Fixed it. Working now.

[mantaman]

corrupt file. <:I

[Leeeeeroy]

took 3 hours to donwload aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's corrupted...

[firepower02]

I do hope you won't have fnis, or other skse needed to run your mods.

 

You said file is 400 mb, but it's only 373 mb. Maybe something went wrong while uploading.

[Shade115]

Suludi have you thought of adding ocean currents, underwater volcanoes, and sulfur deposits?

[Suludi]

took 3 hours to donwload aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's corrupted...

DAMN. I'm sorry.

 

I do hope you won't have fnis, or other skse needed to run your mods.

 

You said file is 400 mb, but it's only 373 mb. Maybe something went wrong while uploading.

I use both FNIS anmd SKSE but they shouldn't be necessary to simply swim through the worldspace. And the file size is correct, I only rounded up a bit.

 

 

Suludi have you thought of adding ocean currents, underwater volcanoes, and sulfur deposits?

No, not yet but I can add them to the list.

 

I'll be gone until tomorrow but then I'll try to pack the file again. I'm sorry it's corrupted.

[firepower02]

Don't worry, the file is NOT corrupt. I downloaded and tested just fine!

 

I went to Lakerise, and it's wonderful and really huge! I'm sure mermaids would really love to live there. It would be nice if you could add underwater shops and inns, or any sort of stuff on land, but tended by mermaids, argonians, or other sea humanoids. It would be nice to see seadragons kinda like the chinese dragons. The water is clear too, so there is no problem with vision. When I look up though, should you at least be able to see things above translucently, when I look up, it's just blue.

 

So far, no underwater combat, and the mermaid swim animations applies to everyone. When you swim upwards or downwards, can you position the body diagonally, rather than horizontal? There are a few slaughterfish, but I could not attack back. I could not find the caves too. Can you please add map markers? Anyone who loves mermaids should download and try it.

 

And I tried firing firebolt to the water, quickly swam down, and saw fire underwater. So those who keep saying fire spells won't work underwater are all wrong! Fire can exist underwater, although it really shouldn't.

[mantaman]

ah, so i guess its uncorrupted now? anyway, i played it and took some screenshots of stuff

 

Now this could really use more dwemer houses, like, a medium/large sized village

 

stairs here plz, along with houses

 

more housing

 

perfect place for a walled city/kings castle

 

??? could be used for somethin, put buildings on it

 

hmmmm, build a lighthouse on it?

 

bandit/pirate locations

 

the Mirror, the location of the legless orca merfolk that are being kept there by pirates

 

the fleet could use a few more boats, and one of them needs fixing, also the one that isnt sunk is invisible on the inside

 

now then, onto stuff at skyrim

 

the island could use a few abandoned cottages

 

a campfire

 

and a boat

i also found a few glitches in whiterun

 

 

 

oi, with this stuff cleared up, and new monsters or whatever, this'll be lookin even better

 

[aravis7]

Those screens looks great : ) I disagree with some suggestions above thought, try not to use too many dwemer or other vanilla assets, it looks really déjà vu and out of place, especially on a non nordic landmass. Try to find new ressources instead, it will make your mod much more unique and intersting : ) (for example, there are nice corals here, in tes3 format but not hard to convert: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=8378)

 

[Monsto Brukes]

as a preface, I'd like to just say I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do anything. I'm offering my thoughts. I won't be "butthurt" (gods I hate that word. Such connotation.) about a goddamb thing. I'm offering ideas in the hopes to feed the process. If something I add helps with inspiration in some way (even if it's "no way, that sucks, lets do this other thing") then my work here is done (=

 

So . . . That being said... 

 

 

First...

backstory idea post of mine. This could cleanly and easily explain why they use dwemer architecture.\

 

 

The swim animations:

love seeing your evolution in the anim. The first one was kinda stiff, the newest one flows well. Isn't it going to be on one of the mermaid bodies? if so, I really think you can pursue flow, and make it look really cool, but at the expense of slightly passing the limitation of traditional humanoid joints. For example, I think you can get away with hyper extending the knees another degree or 2 if it makes the flow look really good. Same with the spine. Only in mermaid form, tho, imo. In humanoid form, you almost have to stick with traditional extents or risk freaking out the player.

 

 

Settlements and towns:

I think that before you can truly settle on what their settlements are like, you should answer the question "what is their relationship with the Mer?" are they reclusive? are they secretive? Xenophobic? Unless they're actively friendly to Mer, their settlements will be nowhere near the beaches of tamriel.

 

TBPH, I hate skyrim "cities". Any other game would call Whiterun a village. I think they're greatly under-populated, under-built and are proof positive that everything in skyrim is built on morrowind mentality. Daggerfall in the game Daggerfall was HUGE. it had some 20 shops, a dozen taverns, and an after-dark crime rate that would seriously kick your ass if you were low level. I had a real sense that it was a city of many thousands. Solitude? 1 blacksmith and 1 tavern? what? 

 

Therefore, I encourage you to think bigger. If you're concerned about player access, use a map marker like wyrmstooth. At that point you could put it anywhere and not care. You could put the water surface at 10k feet, and build the city as vertical as you want . . . which would be a HUGE departure from skyrim.

 

for example something like this underwater: http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Australian-Pavilion-at-Venice-Biennale-2010-1.jpg

could be built with any number of the dwemer constructs. large spire near the center, smaller spires in close proximity, even smaller spires in the near vicinity.

 

If they're friendly, a series of wharfs like this just out in the middle of the ocean would support interaction with the mer. http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Australian-Pavilion-at-Venice-Biennale-2010-Aquatown.jpg

I think it'd be unique to any video game I've ever seen. "oh i'm just sailing along and look . . . here's several miles of spider-webbed piers out in the middle of the water."

 

And you know something. . . Wyrmstooth, Helgen Reborn, and a couple other mods, made quite a big deal out of "rebuilding" things. How about this: The whole interaction starts off with a tiny tiny tiny atoll . . . a gilligans island no bigger than a shoe store poking up out of the water. Over time, a civilization -- a network of surface wharfs, buildings on piers and subsurface Nereid/Mereid constructions built DOWNWARD into the water -- is built out from that little piece of sand over the course of the campaign.

 

 

Nereid/Mereid

Love that name. It seriously kicks all ass. Is it NEH-rey-id? neh-RIDE? neh-READ? Personally, I like NEH-rey-id. Just sayin.

 

How did you imagine it fitting in to the "Mer of Nirn" world lore? Every major race is considered "mer" . . . altmer, bosmer, orsimer, etc. What do you think of Neremer? What about subraces? if it's a subrace, then it could easily be competing with MANY other cousin races on the fambly tree... Naga, salamancer (not salad-mancer) etc. Any competition COULD make an appearance (with little more than retexturing of the Nereid body) but it's more about defining the universe to help make this corner of the world more easily clarfied.

 

For example . . . Is it decided if the Nereid/Mereid are fish scaled or dolphin skinned? Whichever is decided, both should appear. The 'other' could easily appear in the major settlement simply for diversity . . . and while you and I would look at em and go "they all look alike to me", they would look at each other as different as we would see nord vs khajiit. It's an easy way to play on diversity and assumptions base on just not knowing the difference.

 

That's scaling, vs leathery . . . then there's spotting & coloring. While dolphin and orca are very closely related on the mammalian tree, they couldn't be less friendly to each other. Nereid/Mereid (Neremer?) could be solid with flowing greens, blues greys. On the other hand, Oreid (ory-id) (Oremer?) have sharp(er) lines and  contrasting colors. A red, purple, dark blue, race with dramatically changing colors in spots and stripes is a pretty stereotypical color scheme for "bad guys". BUT . . . and this is key . . . they use the same body.

 

 

Done.

Ok so those are my thoughts. Got to say, I really like the progress. I've a design background (game, print, web) and have some texturing skills. I have putzed with buildings and dungeons, so i'm familiar with those tools, tho I will stop short here of offering to do something that will take a long-term commitment. I will however love to follow and offer my support and musings.

 

 

[mantaman]

Those screens looks great : ) I disagree with some suggestions above thought, try not to use too many dwemer or other vanilla assets, it looks really déjà vu and out of place, especially on a non nordic landmass. Try to find new ressources instead, it will make your mod much more unique and intersting : ) (for example, there are nice corals here, in tes3 format but not hard to convert: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=8378)

 

ahhh, these'll help out quite a bit with underwater detailing, thanks man!

 

as a preface, I'd like to just say I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do anything. I'm offering my thoughts. I won't be "butthurt" (gods I hate that word. Such connotation.) about a goddamb thing. I'm offering ideas in the hopes to feed the process. If something I add helps with inspiration in some way (even if it's "no way, that sucks, lets do this other thing") then my work here is done (=

 

So . . . That being said... 

 

 

First...

backstory idea post of mine. This could cleanly and easily explain why they use dwemer architecture.\

 

 

The swim animations:

love seeing your evolution in the anim. The first one was kinda stiff, the newest one flows well. Isn't it going to be on one of the mermaid bodies? if so, I really think you can pursue flow, and make it look really cool, but at the expense of slightly passing the limitation of traditional humanoid joints. For example, I think you can get away with hyper extending the knees another degree or 2 if it makes the flow look really good. Same with the spine. Only in mermaid form, tho, imo. In humanoid form, you almost have to stick with traditional extents or risk freaking out the player.

 

 

Settlements and towns:

I think that before you can truly settle on what their settlements are like, you should answer the question "what is their relationship with the Mer?" are they reclusive? are they secretive? Xenophobic? Unless they're actively friendly to Mer, their settlements will be nowhere near the beaches of tamriel.

 

TBPH, I hate skyrim "cities". Any other game would call Whiterun a village. I think they're greatly under-populated, under-built and are proof positive that everything in skyrim is built on morrowind mentality. Daggerfall in the game Daggerfall was HUGE. it had some 20 shops, a dozen taverns, and an after-dark crime rate that would seriously kick your ass if you were low level. I had a real sense that it was a city of many thousands. Solitude? 1 blacksmith and 1 tavern? what? 

 

Therefore, I encourage you to think bigger. If you're concerned about player access, use a map marker like wyrmstooth. At that point you could put it anywhere and not care. You could put the water surface at 10k feet, and build the city as vertical as you want . . . which would be a HUGE departure from skyrim.

 

for example something like this underwater: http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Australian-Pavilion-at-Venice-Biennale-2010-1.jpg

could be built with any number of the dwemer constructs. large spire near the center, smaller spires in close proximity, even smaller spires in the near vicinity.

 

If they're friendly, a series of wharfs like this just out in the middle of the ocean would support interaction with the mer. http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Australian-Pavilion-at-Venice-Biennale-2010-Aquatown.jpg

I think it'd be unique to any video game I've ever seen. "oh i'm just sailing along and look . . . here's several miles of spider-webbed piers out in the middle of the water."

 

And you know something. . . Wyrmstooth, Helgen Reborn, and a couple other mods, made quite a big deal out of "rebuilding" things. How about this: The whole interaction starts off with a tiny tiny tiny atoll . . . a gilligans island no bigger than a shoe store poking up out of the water. Over time, a civilization -- a network of surface wharfs, buildings on piers and subsurface Nereid/Mereid constructions built DOWNWARD into the water -- is built out from that little piece of sand over the course of the campaign.

 

 

Nereid/Mereid

Love that name. It seriously kicks all ass. Is it NEH-rey-id? neh-RIDE? neh-READ? Personally, I like NEH-rey-id. Just sayin.

 

How did you imagine it fitting in to the "Mer of Nirn" world lore? Every major race is considered "mer" . . . altmer, bosmer, orsimer, etc. What do you think of Neremer? What about subraces? if it's a subrace, then it could easily be competing with MANY other cousin races on the fambly tree... Naga, salamancer (not salad-mancer) etc. Any competition COULD make an appearance (with little more than retexturing of the Nereid body) but it's more about defining the universe to help make this corner of the world more easily clarfied.

 

For example . . . Is it decided if the Nereid/Mereid are fish scaled or dolphin skinned? Whichever is decided, both should appear. The 'other' could easily appear in the major settlement simply for diversity . . . and while you and I would look at em and go "they all look alike to me", they would look at each other as different as we would see nord vs khajiit. It's an easy way to play on diversity and assumptions base on just not knowing the difference.

 

That's scaling, vs leathery . . . then there's spotting & coloring. While dolphin and orca are very closely related on the mammalian tree, they couldn't be less friendly to each other. Nereid/Mereid (Neremer?) could be solid with flowing greens, blues greys. On the other hand, Oreid (ory-id) (Oremer?) have sharp(er) lines and  contrasting colors. A red, purple, dark blue, race with dramatically changing colors in spots and stripes is a pretty stereotypical color scheme for "bad guys". BUT . . . and this is key . . . they use the same body.

 

 

Done.

Ok so those are my thoughts. Got to say, I really like the progress. I've a design background (game, print, web) and have some texturing skills. I have putzed with buildings and dungeons, so i'm familiar with those tools, tho I will stop short here of offering to do something that will take a long-term commitment. I will however love to follow and offer my support and musings.

 

now your suggestion on the dwemer stuff, it makes sence for falmer to break away and evolve into aquatic elf people, hell, looking at their progress towards being falmer must show that elves evolve quickly

 

and as for cities, there is so much landmass here to use, i dont think we'll even consider settling on a tiny whiterun sized "city" maybe each city holding about the population of whiterun hold, but it'll be up to who ever decides to tweak the map up a bit and create homes

 

as for friendliness, i thought about this before, a kingdom in turmoil after pirate attacks become more frequent, and each race begins to be attacked by their weaknesses, which doesnt make them outright hostile to people from tamriel, just very cautious

 

race relations would most likely strengthen, now that pirates are attacking one race with one tactic, another race might be there to help them

 

now the map is pretty much done, landmass wise, but buildings that extend out the water seem very doable

 

now for that race name, that will indeed work, maybe for the sea-snow elves? and all other names are played off diff mermaid names

 

Mereid: Sea Elves

Nepsmer: Orcas

Posajji: dark skinned/redguard merpeople

Yjusulkas: light skinned/nord merpeople

Sereins: fish tailed argonians

and maybe somethin for sharks?

 

and i'd expect that they would look different enough to be instantly recognizeable, but i will indeed try to write as much of what you suggested as i can

 

now, as for work? i dunno, you'd have to ask Suludi what you can help out with, personally i would like to see you have a go at adding buildings and whatnot to the place

[firepower02]

There's a mod on the nexus called flying ring, when equipped, it will make the wearer fly, and return to normal walking when unequipped. I think maybe the same mechanism can be applied to mermaid tails, if they are wearing a tail, they would use the mermaid swim animations, if not, the normal swim. This would effectively make the swim animations exclusive to mermaids. There is still the problem of no underwater combat, and there's no coversation as well. It would be hard to make an underwater inn or shop if you can't speak to the owner.

[azmodan22]

There's a mod on the nexus called flying ring, when equipped, it will make the wearer fly, and return to normal walking when unequipped. I think maybe the same mechanism can be applied to mermaid tails, if they are wearing a tail, they would use the mermaid swim animations, if not, the normal swim. This would effectively make the swim animations exclusive to mermaids. There is still the problem of no underwater combat, and there's no coversation as well. It would be hard to make an underwater inn or shop if you can't speak to the owner.

 

You can place the in or the building underwater, but when entering the water can only be knee high.

But then again that does take away the point of being accessible by mermeids only :-S