Help with clipping issues and outfit studio

[lacie_]

I have been getting a lot of clipping issues in SSE, especially with mods that stack clothes on top of each other. I've been trying to figure out how to fix it myself in Outfit Studio but I am completely new to this and I'm having trouble with things that I didn't find to be explained clearly on the wiki or elsewhere.

 

My understanding is that when you want to edit something, you go New project --> [Template] (in my case 3B) --> then select the .nif in the "Outfit/mesh" field, and from there load in a reference body and adjust the outfit in whatever way is necessary. While I do get clipping with the reference body sometimes, most of my clipping is with other outfits. Would the best way to fix this clipping be, after you've loaded your outfit and reference, to then "Add project" with the outfit that clips, make any adjustments, check it all works with the preset I will be using, then Conform --> Copy bone weights --> Delete the ref and the project outfit you were comparing with --> Save?

 

Then from here I'm a little unclear what to do to actually get my changes into the game. I'm using MO2 so I can get the saved outputs from the overwrite folder, is it enough to just convert this into a mod and put it below the meshes I am trying to change in the load order? Or is it better practice to take the output .nifs and .osps and overwrite the originals manually? And for that matter, where would I even do this? Outfit studio can load projects from Skyrim SE in the steam folder, I'm assuming because I'm running it through MO2, but when I'm trying to access those files through a file explorer do I need to look them up within their respective mod folders?

 

Lastly, whenever I've made a project output, I haven't been able to apply any preset sliders to it. I have read both this and this, but I didn't really understand what a "master group" is and how this would enable an outfit to use particular sliders. After reading this I noticed that a lot of the outfits I'd downloaded from nexusmods/here also didn't list any presets when selected - is the basic idea to just assign all outfits to a group that has presets enabled for it, so that even if that outfit doesn't have any presets set up for it you can still apply presets through batch build or something like that? Is there a way to allow specific outfits to access your full list of presets?

 

edit: I was playing around with BodySlide and think I figured out my last question but if someone could confirm that'd be nice. I'm using CBBE 3BBB, so basically when I add new 3B outfits to my mod list I need to add them to the 3BBB subgroup of the CBBE 3BBB group and this will enable all my presets for 3BBB, and if they are CBBE (SE) outfits then I add them to the CBBE subgroup? And a follow up question, is this really necessary?

[VersuchDrei]

If you only want to fix clipping for your game you can simply use "Import -> from NIF" and "Export -> to NIF". You only need to go all that new project etc. routine if you want to create a slider set for other people to use.

 

If you do prefer to go through with it as a project you then need to build that project in BodySlide. (open BodySlide, select project under "Outfit/Body" and press the Build button.

[lacie_]

@Skitskurr Thanks for the reply. If I do it through Import/Export NIF, do I still need to apply bone weights and conform? Or I can just import, correct with brushes, then export and thats fine?

 

edit: I've also noticed that some of the items I get clipping with don't have bodyslides set up, and the clipping is because the game is applying the zeroed slider model to a body using different presets. Is this something common/should this be happening, and is the fix to just make the bodyslides for it myself?

 

 

edit2: Firstly just wanted to say thanks for your help, I seem to be able to fix clipping using import/export for .nif files when the outfit is set up for bodyslide (not applying bone weights or using conform all, not sure if this matters but doesn't seem to?). I can't get it to work when I do the same process to .nif files of outfits that don't appear in bodyslide, so for these do I need to do all the steps I listed in my first post? If so, then my question is back to once I save the project how do I get it to actually show up in game?

 

Also with the import/export method, none of the changes I made showed up in game until I re-ran bodyslide, so is running bodyslide a requirement after making any changes, regardless of how you do it? Your message made it sound like I only need to run bodyslide again if I was saving a new project, and not overwriting an existing .nif file with export.

[VersuchDrei]

14 hours ago, asdj1239 said:

@Skitskurr Thanks for the reply. If I do it through Import/Export NIF, do I still need to apply bone weights and conform? Or I can just import, correct with brushes, then export and thats fine?

If you import a nif you import it's bone weights with it, so unless you want to change anything about that (like for example turn it into HDT) you don't need to worry about that at all.

 

14 hours ago, asdj1239 said:

edit: I've also noticed that some of the items I get clipping with don't have bodyslides set up, and the clipping is because the game is applying the zeroed slider model to a body using different presets. Is this something common/should this be happening, and is the fix to just make the bodyslides for it myself?

You can do that, but you don't have to. You can also just edit the nifs of the items.

 

14 hours ago, asdj1239 said:

edit2: Firstly just wanted to say thanks for your help, I seem to be able to fix clipping using import/export for .nif files when the outfit is set up for bodyslide (not applying bone weights or using conform all, not sure if this matters but doesn't seem to?).

You only need to conform sliders if you want to turn that armor into a bodyslide project and only need to apply bone weights if it doesn't yet have any.

 

14 hours ago, asdj1239 said:

Also with the import/export method, none of the changes I made showed up in game until I re-ran bodyslide, so is running bodyslide a requirement after making any changes, regardless of how you do it?

This sounds like you have edited the ShapeData of the armor, not the mesh (which is confusing because both are nif files). So before more confusion pops up I'll just explain this in detail.
There's three things we have to differ here. The SliderSet, the ShapeData and the armor meshes.
Every BodySlide project consists of a SliderSet and a ShapeData.
The SliderSet is located at "Data\CalienteTools\BodySlide\SliderSets\<project>.osp".
The ShapeData is located at "Data\CalienteTools\BodySlide\ShapeData\<project>\<item>.nif".

This ShapeData is not your personal Slider setup, but the base shape of the armor and might look different from the one you see in the game.

With the SliderSet and the ShapeData BodySlide then builds a 0 weight and a 1 weight nif and and places them in the meshes folder.

All nifs loaded by the game are located in the meshes folder, for example the Ebony Armor is at "Data\Meshes\Armor\ebony\f\cuirass_0.nif" and "Data\Meshes\Armor\ebony\f\cuirass_1.nif".

 

The game does not load anything from the BodySlide folder, so if you edit the ShapeData you have to rebuild it in BodySlide for the changes to be build into the meshes folder. If you edit the nifs from the meshes folder changes will be in the game immediately, but keep in mind that those get overwritten everytime you build it in BodySlide again.

 

If you plan on rebuilding your armors in BodySlide or are worried you might overwrite them by accident you can use "File -> Load Project" and load the respective .osp. This project already has Bone Weights applied and Sliders conformed, so you only need to fix your clipping issues. Then save the project and build it again in BodySlide.

For those armors that do not have BodySlide projects you can either create those, which is a little bit more difficult, or import and export the nif of the armor from the meshes folder.

[lacie_]

@Skitskurr thanks so much for that reply, it's really helpful.

 

So in the interest of future proofing any changes I make in case I need to either rerun bodyslide, reinstall mods, or use a different bodyslide preset, I have to work on the .osp or I can still work on the .nif?

 

I've been having a play around with outfit studio and checking what happens in game, and it seems like most of the time the clipping happens because the outfit only fits on a body preset with zeroed sliders, but when these change it clips through - so to fix this should I be working on either the .osp or the shapedata .nif, or I can also edit the meshes .nif instead?

 

Maybe I can give a more specific example to make the problem I have a bit clearer. I have a lot of "outfits" that only have the .nif files, as in both the shapedata .nif and the meshes .nif, but no .osp. the xx_0.nif and xx_1.nif are the exact same, and they fit the zeroed slider reference body but they won't change shape when I load a preset into outfit studio. I am guessing to get these working correctly, I need to be using "Conform all" because after I use this, they display properly on other presets without clipping. What I don't know is how I should be saving these files - can I just export the .nif, or do I need to save it as a project? Then once I've saved them, I think the output file usually shows up in the MO2 overwrite folder (or otherwise I can track down where it saves) - should I be converting these folders/files into mods and placing them at the end of my load order so it shows up in game?

[VersuchDrei]

9 hours ago, asdj1239 said:

I have to work on the .osp or I can still work on the .nif?

You can work on the mesh, but this mesh gets overwritten every time you build that outfit in BodySlide again. So if you're lazy like me and just do "Batch Build" and build all again every time you get a decent amount of new projects it's safer to work on the .osp.

 

9 hours ago, asdj1239 said:

it seems like most of the time the clipping happens because the outfit only fits on a body preset with zeroed sliders, but when these change it clips through - so to fix this should I be working on either the .osp or the shapedata .nif, or I can also edit the meshes .nif instead?

Never work on the ShapeData .nif. The SliderSet only works on that exact nif, every small change can have unpredictable effects. If you work on the project it will update the ShapeData and SliderSet accordingly. So always work on the .osp when editing BodySlide projects.

The problem you described sounds like whoever made the project forgot to conform the sliders. For this you should edit the project and then build it again to get a properly build mesh out of it. Note that after conforming all sliders there still might be clipping for certain slider setups, those need to be fixed manually by clicking on the pencil icon next to the slider in OutfitStudio and fixing that sliders clipping issues. If you do not experience any clipping with your slider setup don't worry about this.

 

9 hours ago, asdj1239 said:

I have a lot of "outfits" that only have the .nif files, as in both the shapedata .nif and the meshes .nif, but no .osp. the xx_0.nif and xx_1.nif are the exact same, and they fit the zeroed slider reference body but they won't change shape when I load a preset into outfit studio. I am guessing to get these working correctly, I need to be using "Conform all" because after I use this, they display properly on other presets without clipping. What I don't know is how I should be saving these files

Some mod authors give a default mesh with their mod, these are called "plug and play" because you only need to install the mod and can start playing, but to fix any clipping or make it look like your preferred body you have to build it first. That's why there is ShapeData and a mesh, even though BodySlide is supposed to generate the mesh.

Now to the .osp. It is possible to save multiple SliderSets into a single .osp file. When loading that project you then get a list of outfits to choose from. There should always be at least one .osp in the mod.

If however the author forgot to upload it entirely you'll have to create your own project. That's a bit more complex, not because it's difficult but because it just requires a lot more steps. I'll not explain that in detail here because there already are so many tutorials out there.

Here is which one I personally used to learn how to use OutfitStudio (I don't know if it's good or bad, it was just the first result on google, but it worked for me):

Just when creating a new project try to find the template that was used for the ShapeData so you don't have to edit the sliders to make it fit the base shape and for Outfit/Mesh select the ShapeData .nif.

[lacie_]

@Skitskurr Thanks so much for all that info, I'll have a play around with things and follow that guide and can hopefully learn how to fix all my clipping issues

[lacie_]

@Skitskurr OK I finally got it all working the way I wanted it to Thanks so much again, I really appreciate it.

 

If you don't mind, I did just want to firstly run by the full process I'm using with you because I don't think there's any problems with it but you are way more knowledgeable than I am, and also to ask a follow up question.

 

1. What I'm doing is loading the xx_1.nif (or 0, doesn't really matter) as a new project in OS with whatever reference body the outfit isn't conforming to (so usually 3B), clicking conform all, fixing any clipping that happens, then saving as a project. I then convert the output to a mod so I can reuse it if I have to, open the outfit in BS and build. In OS, I'm not using the copy bone weights function because for some reason I lose some bone weights and end up with empty holes in the outfit. I am hoping this method future-proofs any changes I make in case I decide to use new body presets, so I can just run BS again and the outfit should properly conform (might have to re-fix clipping). Is that all correct?

 

2. I'm using the devious devices and cursed loot mods, and for some reason some of the DD outfit files are copied into DCL (they're the exact same outfit though). A lot of these files are the ones I get clipping on. At the moment, I just do the above process for the outfit in one mod, then copy the BS _0/1.nif outputs into the mesh folder for the other mod. But is there an easy way to make a new .osp file that will put a new outfit into the BS list that will output to the other mod (basically just so I can be lazy and batch build without manually editing files)?

 

edit regarding 2.: I was looking as the .osp file and think I just answered my own question - I think I can just create a copy of the .osp file, edit the output path (and probably the slider set name so I know which is which) in a text editor, then save that in the same location as the original .osp

 

[VersuchDrei]

15 minutes ago, asdj1239 said:

1. What I'm doing is loading the xx_1.nif (or 0, doesn't really matter) as a new project in OS with whatever reference body the outfit isn't conforming to (so usually 3B), clicking conform all, fixing any clipping that happens, then saving as a project.

This works if there are only minor clipping issues.

If the outfit looks like it's made for a different body shape you first try to make the body match it as close as possible by playing with the sliders (which are not yet conformed to the outfit). Then use "File -> Make Conversion Reference", (now there's only one slider" "Slider -> Conform All", push the slider to 100%, "Slider -> Set Base Shape", now it jumps back to 0% but the outfit doesn't change back. And then "File -> Load Reference" and re-load your reference. Now you got all the sliders back but the outfit is already matching the base shape as good as possible.

 

23 minutes ago, asdj1239 said:

I am hoping this method future-proofs any changes I make in case I decide to use new body presets, so I can just run BS again and the outfit should properly conform (might have to re-fix clipping). Is that all correct?

It should be future proof as long as you don't change from CBBE to UUNP or vice versa.

 

24 minutes ago, asdj1239 said:

edit regarding 2.: I was looking as the .osp file and think I just answered my own question - I think I can just create a copy of the .osp file, edit the output path (and probably the slider set name so I know which is which) in a text editor, then save that in the same location as the original .osp

Sounds correct. I probably had load the project in OutfitStudio and then used "File -> Save Project As..." as you can then set all those properties to your preferred settings and be sure that the generated .osp file is well formed. You should avoid editing anything in text editor as accidently deleting a single character can break the whole file.

[lacie_]

1 hour ago, Skitskurr said:

This works if there are only minor clipping issues.

If the outfit looks like it's made for a different body shape you first try to make the body match it as close as possible by playing with the sliders

Ah yep, I omitted this step because everything I was working on seemed to be made for the same body shape.

 

1 hour ago, Skitskurr said:

Sounds correct. I probably had load the project in OutfitStudio and then used "File -> Save Project As..." as you can then set all those properties to your preferred settings and be sure that the generated .osp file is well formed. You should avoid editing anything in text editor as accidently deleting a single character can break the whole file.

That sounds like a much better way to do it, I forgot you could define the filepath when saving. Thanks for that