Saves become impossible to load past a certain point

[Elick320]

This is one of the strangest crashes I've ever had. Recently I got a new graphics card so I wanted to do another skyrim save, but after installing a bunch of new mods I started running into this unique crash.

 

After starting a new save, the game will load normally, but as the game is loading all the different mods and MCM's, eventually the save will reach a point of no return, once at this point, the save will be completely unloadable (but I can continue playing in it just fine), but I can start a new one just fine, then the process repeats. There doesn't seem to be a consistent marking for when this point of not return, but sometimes I believe it coincides with the following things:

 

• Two MCM menus being activated, long after other MCM's are already activated
• Creature Framework loading the JSON
• Installing Sexlab via the MCM
• Loading Bikinifier

 

These sources make me believe the crashes may be due to papyrus overloading, but even after uninstalling some sexlab mods the problems continue to persist.

 

My load order is here

 

This is a papyrus log from trying to start a save thats past the point of no return, here (Papyrus.0.log, Papyrus.1.log, Papyrus.2.log) are logs from loading a new save, until it reaches that point. I've tried a few things to fix this, none of which worked:

 

• Completely uninstalling anything creature related
• Uninstalling excess sexlab animations
• Installing some crash fix mods
• Upgrading to FNIS XXL
• Uninstalling certain mods that I though may have been causing it (so far just devious framework)
• Modifying my skyrim.ini to have papyrus use more resources

 

To be honest, I'm completely at a loss here, I really don't want to have to start over with a new skyrim install since that would take days.

 

I use Mod Organizer 2, FNIS version is latest, SKSE is version 1.7.3

[Seijin8]

28 minutes ago, Elick320 said:

• Completely uninstalling anything creature related -- and then running a script cleaner, right?
• Uninstalling excess sexlab animations -- only relevant if you were close to your animation limit, and you didn't post any FNIS logs, so we don't know that to be the case.
• Installing some crash fix mods -- which ones?  Did you configure them as well, or just install them?  Details matter.
• Upgrading to FNIS XXL
• Uninstalling certain mods that I though may have been causing it (so far just devious framework) -- and then ran a script cleaner, yes?
• Modifying my skyrim.ini to have papyrus use more resources -- don't.  Use BethINI, and do basically nothing else.  The vast majority of papyrus "improvements" bandied about as "fixes" are garbage that cause more problems.

In a lot of cases, if a mod is generating issues it is due to a bad interaction, and not because it is a bad mod.  The important piece of data here is that if you install a bunch of mods all at once, you can have no idea what is interacting badly.

 

When you uninstall a mod, you have to clean the scripts properly to get it back into a working state, and in many cases must remove/reset the objects that carried the scripts if they are still present.  A lot of what is in your papyrus logs indicates script instances that no longer fit the game conditions and cannot operate correctly in that state.

 

The mental image here is putting out a fire and expecting everything that was burning to return to pre-burnt condition.  Negative.  You will need to reset/restart most things, and doing that with a save that is already having disastrous issues behind the scenes is asking too much.  The logs show literal hundreds of objects in your save state that are no longer carrying valid script data and are failing.

 

 

[Fotogen]

There is a lot of "xpopBountyStuff" in your log file.

 

Skyrim LE only:

- max 32k strings in a save file. There is a fix to have more.

 

Skyrim LE and SE(yes, both):

- max 1M (mega, 2^20) of temporary references in a save file.

- theres a good description here: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/ag4wm7/psa_the_reference_handle_cap_or_diagnosing_one_of/

- short version: mods(.esp) that add(or change) new areas, land, caves, dungeons can very quickly burn that 1M budget. For example: in my case HammetsDungeons.esp used over 200K temp. references, near 1/4 of the budget on its own. Converting it to .esm solved the problem.

 

[Elick320]

3 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

and then running a script cleaner, right?

I assumed it wasn't needed when starting a new save.

 

3 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

only relevant if you were close to your animation limit, and you didn't post any FNIS logs, so we don't know that to be the case.

Was trying everything I could think of.

 

3 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

which ones?  Did you configure them as well, or just install them?  Details matter.

Crash fixes, Load Game CTD fix, Safety load, Animation limit crash fix, and SKSE plugin preloader. Configured crash fixes to work with the plugin preloader, didn't configure the others.

 

3 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

don't.  Use BethINI, and do basically nothing else.  The vast majority of papyrus "improvements" bandied about as "fixes" are garbage that cause more problems.

While this seems extremely useful and I thank you for showing me it, I tested some new cycles and it still crashes.

 

3 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

In a lot of cases, if a mod is generating issues it is due to a bad interaction, and not because it is a bad mod.  The important piece of data here is that if you install a bunch of mods all at once, you can have no idea what is interacting badly.

 

When you uninstall a mod, you have to clean the scripts properly to get it back into a working state, and in many cases must remove/reset the objects that carried the scripts if they are still present.  A lot of what is in your papyrus logs indicates script instances that no longer fit the game conditions and cannot operate correctly in that state.

 

The mental image here is putting out a fire and expecting everything that was burning to return to pre-burnt condition.  Negative.  You will need to reset/restart most things, and doing that with a save that is already having disastrous issues behind the scenes is asking too much.  The logs show literal hundreds of objects in your save state that are no longer carrying valid script data and are failing.

I know it's good conduct to always test your game as I'm installing mods, but I'm usually not ready for... this kind of crashing.

 

I'm well aware of how bad abandoned scripts can be in save games, as I've lost probably 10s of save games to uninstalling/installing mods and/or changing the load order. However I'm talking about freshly created games where this issue is occuring.

 

2 hours ago, Fotogen said:

There is a lot of "xpopBountyStuff" in your log file.

 

Skyrim LE only:

- max 32k strings in a save file. There is a fix to have more.

 

Skyrim LE and SE(yes, both):

- max 1M (mega, 2^20) of temporary references in a save file.

- theres a good description here: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/ag4wm7/psa_the_reference_handle_cap_or_diagnosing_one_of/

- short version: mods(.esp) that add(or change) new areas, land, caves, dungeons can very quickly burn that 1M budget. For example: in my case HammetsDungeons.esp used over 200K temp. references, near 1/4 of the budget on its own. Converting it to .esm solved the problem.

 

So I took that first part and tried uninstalling Missives and Notice Board mods and... I think it actually worked. It was limited testing because its really late but I'll figure it out more in the morning, but it looks like I'm able to load saves from way after all MCM's are done registering. I appreciate the help, and will probably come back if it ends up breaking again.

 

Although for curiosity's sake, what is the fix to have more strings in a save file for LE?

[Seijin8]

6 minutes ago, Elick320 said:

Crash fixes, Load Game CTD fix, Safety load, Animation limit crash fix, and SKSE plugin preloader. Configured crash fixes to work with the plugin preloader, didn't configure the others.

Are you using SKSE memory patch?  What about ENBoost?

6 minutes ago, Elick320 said:

However I'm talking about freshly created games where this issue is occuring.

Then you have the wrong scripts loaded for the game you are running (maybe leftovers or something loading through virtual that should be removed?)

[Elick320]

3 minutes ago, Seijin8 said:

Are you using SKSE memory patch?  What about ENBoost?

The other guy already suggested thing that fixed it, but for the sake of random people multiple months from now stumbling onto this thread with the exact same issue, I'll keep reponding. 

 

I'm running ENBoost, but I'm not sure I'm running the memory patch. I have however edited the SKSE memory settings to reflect my system.

 

Quote

Then you have the wrong scripts loaded for the game you are running (maybe leftovers or something loading through virtual that should be removed?)

I wasn't aware this kind of thing was possible, but considering skyrim is skyrim, I wouldn't doubt it. Would deleting all other saves fix this, or is there a different method?

[Seijin8]

32 minutes ago, Elick320 said:

Would deleting all other saves fix this, or is there a different method?

Negative - this is coming from your install, not your saves.  In the case of MO2, this would be things on the left pane that are activated while their corresponding esps in the right pane are not.  Either that or a patch of some type being activated in left pane while the mod it is meant to patch is no longer present.