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Skyrim low FPS (LE, Oldrim) with good rig and no mods


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I just did a fresh install of Skyrim. I want to mod but haven't begun doing it yet.

 

My rig is:

AMD FX-8350

16 GB DDR3 RAM

NVIDIA 1060 6 GB

1080p

Skyrim is on an SSD.

 

 

I just decided to give it a whirl.

 

In the cart being carried to my execution, I am getting 40 FPS.

In Whiterun I am getting 30 FPS.

 

Reducing object fade distance to 1 helps sometimes to achieve 60 FPS, but in Whiterun, it's still at 30 FPS.

 

https://imgur.com/a/7lujUtG

 

 

Why is this happening? My GPU and CPU are barely getting used. I even tried with a fresh save game. The results were the same in Whiterun.

 

Is this some kind of an Oldrim limit? I see most heavily modded Korean streamers getting 60 FPS all the time, everywhere on Oldrim, what configuration are they using?

 

Any solution?

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On 4/9/2020 at 4:05 AM, lambient1988 said:

Is this some kind of an Oldrim limit?

Not even kind of.  With a flagship ryzen and Titan you can do 8K@50fps, with hipoly 40-64K nif models, 4K normals and 16K diffuse for pc and 4K/4K for npcs.

 

That said, your rig is going to get 40-60 at 1080, period, and thats by threading the shit out of it and front loading as much as possible. You're also going to be unable to use IBL or AO at all and 4K anything is a literal waste as the only time you aren't going to get shimmering from resizing is in screenshots.

 

Whiterun has literal holes in the geometry in addition to unnecessarily repeated textures and has absolutely junk occlusion and LOD handling, never mind incorrectly formatted and attributed nifs. Whiterun was the first city made in Skyrim and unlike competent devs, beth never went back and what they did after they got a working pipeline in place, so you shouldn't be using it as a benchmark for anything other than crash handling and the ability to spawn race conditions in scripts.

 

You should start modding with fixes and patches, not asses and blown the fuck out enbs, cause your fetish won't save you a stack dump.

 

It's real simple. An FX and low tier, not even mid tier card is not going to even kind of give you korean booby streamer results with an i9 and a 2080ti being offloaded onto a delgado 4K streaming card results in any universe ever, period, nor would you ever expect it to.

 

You need your game to work correctly before you stick a single naked ass anywhere in your worldspace, and there's a very concrete checklist for that in several places, starting with donttouchmethere's blog

 

 

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40 minutes ago, 27X said:

Not even kind of.  With a flagship ryzen and Titan you can do 8K@50fps, with hipoly 40-64K nif models, 4K normals and 16K diffuse for pc and 4K/4K for npcs.

 

That said, your rig is going to get 40-60 at 1080, period, and thats by threading the shit out of it and front loading as much as possible. You're also going to be unable to use IBL or AO at all and 4K anything is a literal waste as the only time you aren't going to get shimmering from resizing is in screenshots.

 

Whiterun has literal holes in the geometry in addition to unnecessarily repeated textures and has absolutely junk occlusion and LOD handling, never mind incorrectly formatted and attributed nifs. Whiterun was the first city made in Skyrim and unlike competent devs, beth never went back and what they did after they got a working pipeline in place, so you shouldn't be using it as a benchmark for anything other than crash handling and the ability to spawn race conditions in scripts.

 

You should start modding with fixes and patches, not asses and blown the fuck out enbs, cause your fetish won't save you a stack dump.

 

It's real simple. An FX and low tier, not even mid tier card is not going even kind of give you korean booby streamer results with an i9 and a 2080ti being offloaded onto a delgado 4K streaming card results in any universe ever, period, nor would you ever expect it to.

 

You need your game to work correctly before you stick a single naked ass anywhere in your worldspace, and there's a very concrete checklist for that in several places, starting with donttouchmethere's blog

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Kokan said:

FX 8350 is not for games

 

 

 

okay.png

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1 hour ago, Mez558 said:

Care to elaborate on what it's for then?

 

Frying eggs maybe?

 

how it is heated to fry eggs is good

slow and shared cores...the whole processor is a scam with its so-called 8 cores

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23 minutes ago, lambient1988 said:

 

What @Kokan said is true. It's a pile of crap.

Opening a heavy page on the browser makes my PC lag thanks to 100% CPU usage.

 

They even got sued over it and had to pay 12.1 Million US Dollars.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14804/amd-settlement

 

Wow, didn't know that. I bought one a friend, couple of years back now, as an upgrade to his FX4100 but then they do still out perform the FX4000 range and at that time it was a reasonable price. Nowadays people are asking over £100 for used ones, which is ridiculous money considering a used i5 4690k goes between £60 and £80.

 

My point wasn't about them being a scam but that people can and do still use them for gaming. Back then AMD were well behind the curve compared to Intel but the pricing made them competitive on a budget (saying that, I seem to recall that, on release, the FX 8000 range prices were pretty close to the i5's of their time and they never really got close to performance but the 4 core FX4000's were pretty good value.

 

Bit surprised to hear yours struggle with simple tasks but then that begs the question, why are you surprised it would appear to struggle with a game like Skyrim?

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1 hour ago, Mez558 said:

 

Wow, didn't know that. I bought one a friend, couple of years back now, as an upgrade to his FX4100 but then they do still out perform the FX4000 range and at that time it was a reasonable price. Nowadays people are asking over £100 for used ones, which is ridiculous money considering a used i5 4690k goes between £60 and £80.

 

My point wasn't about them being a scam but that people can and do still use them for gaming. Back then AMD were well behind the curve compared to Intel but the pricing made them competitive on a budget (saying that, I seem to recall that, on release, the FX 8000 range prices were pretty close to the i5's of their time and they never really got close to performance but the 4 core FX4000's were pretty good value.

 

Bit surprised to hear yours struggle with simple tasks but then that begs the question, why are you surprised it would appear to struggle with a game like Skyrim?

 

Well in other tasks, the CPU usage hits 100% and the computer starts lagging.


In case of Skyrim, the CPU (and GPU) only hits 30% and the game starts lagging in certain areas, especially Whiterun.

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When you uninstall skryim only the original files installed are removed, anything like mods or ini files or anything else you added or edited will be left over and must be manually deleted before you reinstall unless you re-installed it to a new drive location this can cause problems if you have left over ini files especially.

 

If you are seeing pc slow down on other applications then you have another problem and that's likely causing the game to run poorly because there is no reason that cpu/gpu would have any problem to run the base game.

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oh boy.How to start. only partially agree with the naysayers. You can get your pc to play oldrim just fine if you turn get rid of any bloatware on your pc and make sure unncessary processes are turned off when the game is playing. Use mods like vanilla textures and all the other mods that help the game run on your pc. There are lists of those all over the place. They are well known. Just start with a few mods on your build that don't have alot of scripts and go from there.

I have an 8320 with 8 cores. YOu don't say how many cores your pc has.

I use fxaa .Use fxaa or smaa and not an emb.

Anyway I play the game without the sort of problems you have.

And I don't fry eggs on my pc.Good luck.

 

Oh and I forgot but there is a 100 percent CPU usage bug from microsoft windows 10  that affects some pcs .

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Enh3gPc3HVs

 

Good luck.

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9 hours ago, RW311 said:

When you uninstall skryim only the original files installed are removed, anything like mods or ini files or anything else you added or edited will be left over and must be manually deleted before you reinstall unless you re-installed it to a new drive location this can cause problems if you have left over ini files especially.

 

If you are seeing pc slow down on other applications then you have another problem and that's likely causing the game to run poorly because there is no reason that cpu/gpu would have any problem to run the base game.

 

It was a clean install because I deleted the old game 1 or 2 years ago. Plus I use Mod Organizer (which too was a fresh download) so the question of leftover mods or INI files does not arise.

 

9 hours ago, ANGRYWOLVERINE said:

oh boy.How to start. only partially agree with the naysayers. You can get your pc to play oldrim just fine if you turn get rid of any bloatware on your pc and make sure unncessary processes are turned off when the game is playing. Use mods like vanilla textures and all the other mods that help the game run on your pc. There are lists of those all over the place. They are well known. Just start with a few mods on your build that don't have alot of scripts and go from there.

I have an 8320 with 8 cores. YOu don't say how many cores your pc has.

I use fxaa .Use fxaa or smaa and not an emb.

Anyway I play the game without the sort of problems you have.

And I don't fry eggs on my pc.Good luck.

 

Oh and I forgot but there is a 100 percent CPU usage bug from microsoft windows 10  that affects some pcs .

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Enh3gPc3HVs

 

Good luck.

 

Don't want to insult you guys but I am not a pleb. I am a Windows power user, in fact, I am a system admin in a company. My PC is clean, with 0 bloat and the latest drivers.

 

And I did mention FX-8350, you could just Google it and know how many cores it has. ?

 

 

I see that you are using FX-8320 and Skyrim with 0 mods I think. I would like to know how much FPS you are getting in the Whiterun entrance (like my screenshot) on max graphics (including the highest Object Fade Distance).

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On 4/9/2020 at 12:05 PM, lambient1988 said:

Why is this happening? My GPU and CPU are barely getting used. I even tried with a fresh save game. The results were the same in Whiterun.

 

Is this some kind of an Oldrim limit? I see most heavily modded Korean streamers getting 60 FPS all the time, everywhere on Oldrim, what configuration are they using?

 

Any solution?

 

5 hours ago, lambient1988 said:

Don't want to insult you guys but I am not a pleb. I am a Windows power user, in fact, I am a system admin in a company. My PC is clean, with 0 bloat and the latest drivers.

 

And I did mention FX-8350, you could just Google it and know how many cores it has. ?

 

 

I see that you are using FX-8320 and Skyrim with 0 mods I think. I would like to know how much FPS you are getting in the Whiterun entrance (like my screenshot) on max graphics (including the highest Object Fade Distance).

Your FX-8350 have practically the same performance than my i5-4460 and i have yours same problems.

 

This is the eternal problem of the mono-thread DirectX 9 games.

Skyrim Legendary is a DirectX 9 game and the only solution is more computer power.

The problem is caused because ONE single core get 100% usage and cause the frame drop.

DirectX 9 is mono-thread and only ONE core must make all the Draw Calls.

When that core get 100% we have the frame drop.

 

 

I recorded two videos, one in a practically pure vanilla game and the other in my normal game, with 250 plugins and 300 mods, and you can see how, every time i get lower frame rate is because one of my 4 cores get 100% usage.

 

 

Look the videos some times and each time look specifically one of the parameters.

Look how the frame rate and frame time drop when ONE core get 100% usage. Look how the number of triangles and the number of Draw Call change depending on what i have in the screen.

In the pure vanilla video the triangle count up to 1.5 millions and the Draw Calls up to 37k giving 50-60 FPS.

But with all my mods i have 3-4 millions of triangles and 50-60k Draw Calls giving me near 30 FPS.

 

My 6 years old machine, i5-4460 + GTX 660 2GB, can not give me a constant frame rate of 60 but allow me play with average 50 FPS because i expend low time in the cities and i perfectly know that, depending of what i have in the screen, i get more o less frames. Simply moving the camera my game change from 30 to 60 and i continue playing.

 

 

As you are a power user enable the individual core monitor in AfterBurner and put the update to 100 ms or less to verify that the problem is caused by one and only one of your 8 cores.

Spoiler

image.png

 

The only way of have more frames in a DirectX 9 game is put more computer power.

As more fast is the CPU less time need to make each Draw Call and as more power full is the video card less time need to process each Draw Call.

 

Resuming, only a i7-9xxx or i9-7xxx or a Ryzen 5 or 7 with a RTX video card can give you a perfect and constant frame rate in a mono-thread DirectX 9 game. All is based in pure combined computer power.

 

For that we have DirectX 11, that is multi-thread, and we go to have DirectX 12, that can make much more Draw Calls per mili second.

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48 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

For that we have DirectX 11, that is multi-thread, and we go to have DirectX 12, that can make much more Draw Calls per mili second.

 

Oh man, such an in-depth explanation.

 

It never crossed by mind that Skyrim runs on DirectX 9 which is single threaded. I have a CPU monitoring widget on my second screen but I never bothered to look at the individual cores. I only looked at the entire CPU's usage.

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

 

I was literally thinking today whether I should get a new PC cause the FX-8350 has been really causing a lot of issues day by day.

 

Now comes the decision whether to buy AMD or Intel. While AMD has eaten Intel alive last year, Intel does provide better single core performance.

Should I buy Intel just for Skyrim? ?

Probably not. ?

 

 

Thank you, @GenioMaestro.

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1 hour ago, lambient1988 said:

Oh man, such an in-depth explanation.

 

It never crossed by mind that Skyrim runs on DirectX 9 which is single threaded. I have a CPU monitoring widget on my second screen but I never bothered to look at the individual cores. I only looked at the entire CPU's usage.

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

The main cause of low frame rate in Skyrim is Single Core performance because is a DirectX 9 game.

Watch my videos again and notice that in the vanilla game, I have more frame rate but the average GPU usage is close to 50%, the same as I have when I run my modified game.

 

My frames drop from 60 to 30 because the game must make double of the Draw Calls and my CPU waste a lot of time doing it. My simple GTX 660 2gb uses only 50% in both configurations because ONE Single Core of my CPU can't execute ALL of those Draw Calls fast enough.

 

1 hour ago, lambient1988 said:

I was literally thinking today whether I should get a new PC cause the FX-8350 has been really causing a lot of issues day by day.

 

Now comes the decision whether to buy AMD or Intel. While AMD has eaten Intel alive last year, Intel does provide better single core performance.

Should I buy Intel just for Skyrim? ?

Probably not. ?

 

I thinking on buy a new computer but i go to wait, at least, until Cyberpunk 2077 or another big game like it is published.

For now, I have enough computer to play Skyrim at 1920x1080 with average 50 FPS and 250 plugins with 300 mods without any big downside, simply low frame rate some times. I not like fantastic graphics because i perfectly know that need computer power and i not have it. Is stupid request have a perfect, stable and beautiful game with my hardware. But at least, i get the best as i can have.

 

 

The main difference from Intel to AMD is always price/performance and the difference from Nvidia to AMD is, in the same way,  price/performance. Buy one of the other is more a personal preference than a technical decision.

The two products give, in practice, the same average performance by the same price. Always one product give more performance under specific test but we not go to run a specific game or program. We go to run a lot of programs and games and looking the average performance is indifferent one of the other.

Buy the product that you like and not worry about the specific performance of one of the components.

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22 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

The main cause of low frame rate in Skyrim is Single Core performance because is a DirectX 9 game.

Watch my videos again and notice that in the vanilla game, I have more frame rate but the average GPU usage is close to 50%, the same as I have when I run my modified game.

 

My frames drop from 60 to 30 because the game must make double of the Draw Calls and my CPU waste a lot of time doing it. My simple GTX 660 2gb uses only 50% in both configurations because ONE Single Core of my CPU can't execute ALL of those Draw Calls fast enough.

 

 

I thinking on buy a new computer but i go to wait, at least, until Cyberpunk 2077 or another big game like it is published.

For now, I have enough computer to play Skyrim at 1920x1080 with average 50 FPS and 250 plugins with 300 mods without any big downside, simply low frame rate some times. I not like fantastic graphics because i perfectly know that need computer power and i not have it. Is stupid request have a perfect, stable and beautiful game with my hardware. But at least, i get the best as i can have.

 

 

The main difference from Intel to AMD is always price/performance and the difference from Nvidia to AMD is, in the same way,  price/performance. Buy one of the other is more a personal preference than a technical decision.

The two products give, in practice, the same average performance by the same price. Always one product give more performance under specific test but we not go to run a specific game or program. We go to run a lot of programs and games and looking the average performance is indifferent one of the other.

Buy the product that you like and not worry about the specific performance of one of the components.

 

 

I decided to test your theory.

I installed Skyrim Special Edition which is DirectX 11 and yes my frame rate inside Whiterun increased from 40 to 50.

 

But it still doesn't hit 60 because the FX-8350 is trash.

 

 

I will buy a new PC when AMD Zen 3 architecture releases. 

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2 minutes ago, lambient1988 said:

I decided to test your theory.

I installed Skyrim Special Edition which is DirectX 11 and yes my frame rate inside Whiterun increased from 40 to 50.

 

But it still doesn't hit 60 because the FX-8350 is trash.

I will buy a new PC when AMD Zen 3 architecture releases. 

Not make test with a pure vanilla game. A lot of things are BAD predefined in the vanilla game.

The tools and the patch's correct it and for that we have it.

 

Download and run BethIni in Legendary and Special and repeat the test. You can have a BIG difference.

Install USLEEP (Legendary) and USSEEP (Special) and repeat the test. You can have a BIG difference.

Install SKSE with Memory Patch in Legendary and repeat the test. You can have a BIG difference.

Install Crash Fixes 12 in Legendary and repeat the test. You can have a BIG difference.

Install Engine Fixes in Special and repeat the test. You can have a BIG difference.

 

The tools are here because some some persons waste weeks or months making it and we need it.

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Seems the topic creator was a  hurt a bit by the comments. 

I am sorry he felt that way.

I had no idea what computer experience he had. How would I ?

I have around 250 mods on my SE  game and about 190 on my LE game. So I do use mods.

Anyway I think I through with my comments on this. Good luck to him.

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8 hours ago, ANGRYWOLVERINE said:

Seems the topic creator was a  hurt a bit by the comments. 

I am sorry he felt that way.

I had no idea what computer experience he had. How would I ?

I have around 250 mods on my SE  game and about 190 on my LE game. So I do use mods.

Anyway I think I through with my comments on this. Good luck to him.

 

Na man, I am not hurt. Any input is appreciated because even pros can miss out stuff sometimes.

 

14 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Not make test with a pure vanilla game. A lot of things are BAD predefined in the vanilla game.

The tools and the patch's correct it and for that we have it.

 

Download and run BethIni in Legendary and Special and repeat the test. You can have a BIG difference.

Install USLEEP (Legendary) and USSEEP (Special) and repeat the test. You can have a BIG difference.

Install SKSE with Memory Patch in Legendary and repeat the test. You can have a BIG difference.

Install Crash Fixes 12 in Legendary and repeat the test. You can have a BIG difference.

Install Engine Fixes in Special and repeat the test. You can have a BIG difference.

 

The tools are here because some some persons waste weeks or months making it and we need it.

 

Oh man, thank you for these list of patches. I was unaware about BethINI and Crash Fixes 12. I will give them a shot and report back. Thank you so much. :)

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On 4/9/2020 at 4:07 PM, 27X said:

With a flagship ryzen and Titan you can do 8K@50fps, with hipoly 40-64K nif models, 4K normals and 16K diffuse for pc and 4K/4K for npcs.

 

Hey, 27X, I was thinking about buying a new PC after the lock down / quarantine.

 

I am stuck whether I should get Intel or AMD.

Of course, Intel is completely down the drain right now and AMD is killing it with the multi-core performance but it still does have better single core performance which is great for Skyirm.

The obvious answer would be to buy Ryzen because it's killing it in the multi-core line up and all new games are multi-core but god damn my love for Skyrim (LE) is way too much.

 

You mention Ryzen, 8K at 50 FPS. Obviously I won't be playing on 8K. 4K at max. But I would like to know if Ryzen will be able to run LE on 4K 60 FPS with mods.

 

Unfortunately, I did not find any results for that. Do you have a Ryzen and run Skyrim on 4K?

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I'm the guy running it at 8K 50 so yes it runs at 4K as well, I'm not going to be found saying something that isn't factual when it comes to raw mechanics.

 

Caveats:

1. Skyrim can be threaded with a simple ini tweak

2. Don't take my word for it:

 

You'll note this is TWO of each respective card, and also framerate being cut by 40% by recording.

 

As for people running 4K, there's an asston of videos on youtube of people running on intel and amd with both versions of the game, so the actual ceiling is price, not hardware, and both companies will be updating bleeding edge hardware around august to november this year, and Intel literally has no answer for ryzen 4xxx other than absurdly over clocked ice/tiger lake one offs that you WILL have to delid and download a custom bios for.

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10 hours ago, 27X said:

I'm the guy running it at 8K 50 so yes it runs at 4K as well, I'm not going to be found saying something that isn't factual when it comes to raw mechanics.

 

Caveats:

1. Skyrim can be threaded with a simple ini tweak

2. Don't take my word for it:

 

You'll note this is TWO of each respective card, and also framerate being cut by 40% by recording.

 

As for people running 4K, there's an asston of videos on youtube of people running on intel and amd with both versions of the game, so the actual ceiling is price, not hardware, and both companies will be updating bleeding edge hardware around august to november this year, and Intel literally has no answer for ryzen 4xxx other than absurdly over clocked ice/tiger lake one offs that you WILL have to delid and download a custom bios for.

 

 

Thank you for this.

However, I really want to see AMD's side of benchmarks for this. Unfortunately, there are no videos of people running this game (modded obviously) on a Ryzen 3000 series.

Best I could find was a guy running it on the Ryzen 2600, which is not as good as the 7700K, but at least it's way better than my FX-8350

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTQXv_BR7JA

 

He even has a better graphics card than me (NVIDIA 1070), however, the FPS in Whiterun is still around 30. Not sure if it's because of the mods, but heck, even I get more than 30 FPS on my heavily modded Skyrim with a whoop-ass RealVision ENB on my FX-8350.

 

 

I know I sound a bit skeptical, but I know there is something missing in the equation. I don't know the word I am looking for, my English ain't so great being from a third world country.

But even with AMD's 7nm technology, Intel does handle games a little bit better on their top end processors. Even better than the 3950X, the i9-9900K for instance

 

To be honest, I wanted to see with my own eyes, how Ryzen 3xxx series would run Skyrim before I make the wrong decision and get stuck with AMD on the same performance I would get on my FX-8350. Because according to @TheRiaya 's video, the Ryzen 2600 is giving the same performance in Skyrim, as my FX-8350 would, literally no difference. My FX-8350 and NVIDIA 1060 performs better than his Ryzen 2600 and NVIDIA 1070.

 

 

Wish if there was a way to test Skyrim on a Ryzen 39xx before making a purchase.

I would wait for the Ryzen 4xxx series though.

 

 

Here is another video from the same guy, where Ryzen 1700X drops to 15 FPS while the Intel 3770K gives at least 35 FPS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkHl0CoDv-k


Wish if there was a way to test Skyrim on a Ryzen 39xx before making a purchase.

I would wait for the Ryzen 4xxx series though.

 

 

Quote

1. Skyrim can be threaded with a simple ini tweak

Can I get more info on this?

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Bloody hellfire. Even the 3900X dips down to 30.

 

I guess it's final now, AMD simply doesn't handle Skyrim well. Must be how the processors handle games under the hood.

 

I gotta say, the AMD hype is good and the competition is excellent for the customer.

 

But Intel still bags the spot for better performance even though their prices are crazy and are running around with security flaws.

I mean, even though they are on the 14nm technology, they can still match with AMD on the 7nm technology.

Imagine what Intel can do if they went 7nm.

 

Screenshot_20200413-133038_YouTube~01.png

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3 hours ago, lambient1988 said:

Can I get more info on this?

iNumHWThreads=5
iHWThread6=5
iHWThread5=5
iHWThread4=5
iHWThread3=4
iHWThread2=4
iHWThread1=4
iAIThread2HWThread=3
iAIThread1HWThread=3
iRenderingThread2HWThread=1
iRenderingThread1HWThread=0

 

Skyrim can use up to five threaded cores, though output frames are still dependent on two. Contrary to popular belief this does not get you a bazillion more frames, it simply raises your minimum framerate by however fast your cores are, and produces more consistent output thereof with less stutter and hitching. Under dx9 this still has to be unified on output, so render finalization depends on TWO cores waiting for info from your card.

 

Said guy with scripting issues is dead wrong. The issue isn't scripting, else SSE would run a kerbillion times faster out of the box, and it doesn't. The issue is draw calls and just like that certain city in fallout 4, Whiterun generates a metric fuckton of them, way more than is needed, because every building in whiterun is made up of sectional parts, both internally and externally, in addition to the other issues I mentioned. This is why you do not use whiterun for benchmarking anything, and there are other cities in Skyrim you can use to establish load and tolerance levels.

 

You assuming I have a dog in whatever parts you buy isn't germane; you're gonna be stuck with whatever you buy, not me.

 

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