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[Wip] Official Tnt Custom Race Thread - Or, What The Femboy Idea Turned Into


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So I've tinkered some more with the CK and managed to get the proper head mesh in. It's misaligned as hell but it works. Also it's some sort of nightmare fuel that is even worse than before because now even the eyes are misaligned and such xD. Upside is that SoS also now works, although that too is misaligned as hell. I'm currently in the process of trying to add in the female eyes and hair and get them to be added properly, but so far they won't show up despite the fact that I added them in the right formlist (another CK mistery that escapes me :\ ).

I was about to post with info on how to set up the heads, but you beat me to it, lol. That's good, I guess.

 

I still have something to say, though: ditch the CK. That mess of a crashfest is no good for most tasks, and should only be used for stuff that requires it, i.e. scripting, FaceGen exporting, and some other tasks. Use TES5 Edit instead for everything else, if you don't already.

 

As for the problem with eyes and hairs, try this: create duplicates of vanilla female eyes, change their flags to "Male", and assign them to a FormList called HeadParts[insert race name], with said FormList containing only your custom race (and the vampire version of it, when that's done).

 

 

Yeah I had to tweak it a bit to get it working well enough. As for the face parts that's what I did but for whatever reason some just won't show up. I added eyes and hair directly from the female vanilla assets to no avail. The drop down list to assign the uplicates of these to my race just won't show my custom race in it :\

 

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Yeah I had to tweak it a bit to get it working well enough. As for the face parts that's what I did but for whatever reason some just won't show up. I added eyes and hair directly from the female vanilla assets to no avail. The drop down list to assign the uplicates of these to my race just won't show my custom race in it :\

Huh, what do you mean "drop down list"? You can't add your custom race record to the head part straight away (which is what I guess you are trying to do, since that's the only drop down menu that could be involved).

 

As I said, you first have to create a new FormList record (you can name it how ever you want, though the convention is to name it HeadParts[race name]), add your race to the list, and then assign that list to your duplicate head parts. Try doing it this way and see if they work then.

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Yeah I had to tweak it a bit to get it working well enough. As for the face parts that's what I did but for whatever reason some just won't show up. I added eyes and hair directly from the female vanilla assets to no avail. The drop down list to assign the uplicates of these to my race just won't show my custom race in it :\

Huh, what do you mean "drop down list"? You can't add your custom race record to the head part straight away (which is what I guess you are trying to do, since that's the only drop down menu that could be involved).

 

As I said, you first have to create a new FormList record (you can name it how ever you want, though the convention is to name it HeadParts[race name]), add your race to the list, and then assign that list to your duplicate head parts. Try doing it this way and see if they work then.

 

So, if my understanding is correct, you create a formlist with all head parts, which then you use in the race formlist in the head data section, then the game engine reads the head data and that's how it decides what head parts/tri morphs it should use. There should also be a texture formlist for head parts from what I could see. Am I mistaken?

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So, if my understanding is correct, you create a formlist with all head parts, which then you use in the race formlist in the head data section, then the game engine reads the head data and that's how it decides what head parts/tri morphs it should use. There should also be a texture formlist for head parts from what I could see. Am I mistaken?

Well, yes, I think you are.

 

You first create the new head parts (head, eyes, mouth, hairs, etc.). Once you have them, you need to let the game know which race they are supposed to show up for. To do this, you need a FormList containing those races. For example, a head part for use with the Nord race will be assigned to a FormList called HeadPartsNordAndVampire. Said FormList only contains 2 entries: NordRace and NordRaceVampire.

 

In this case, let's say the custom race for this mod is called FemboyRace, and its vampire version is FemboyRaceVampire. Just an example name. You would create a new FormList called HeadPartsFemboyAndVampire, and add both race records to it. Now, you have duplicated the vanilla female head and named it MaleHeadFemboy (because it's meant for males, even though it points to female meshes). In order to let the game know that MaleHeadFemboy should be available for the FemboyRace (and FemboyRaceVampire), you open the head part entry, and in the "Valid Races" field, you select HeadPartsFemboyAndVampire. That's it. Same goes for all the other parts (mouth, eyes, brows, etc.).

 

Now, next thing you want to do is tell the game which are the default head parts for the race. Hair, brows and eyes can be changed using the corresponding vanilla sliders, so you only need to choose a default one for each, but head and mouth are unique and cannot be changed ingame, so you have to make sure those are set up the right way.

 

You go to the race data, and to the "Face Data" tab. The "Base Head Parts" menu has specific fields for each type of head part (Face/Head, Eyes, Hair, Facial Hair, and Eyebrows). Select each one, and go to the drop down menu below; it will show all the head parts the game has recognized to be assigned to the race. If everything went well, you should have the custom parts listed here (i.e. the MaleHeadFemboy in the Face field, the MaleMouthFemboy in the Mouth one, etc.). Go through all of those selecting the default/basic parts of each type. You will probably have to leave the "Facial Hair" field empty for obvious reasons, but that's fine.

 

Now, all that's left is setting up all the head parts that do not belong in the Base Head Parts menu. In the case of this race, that's only the mouth. You need to search for the mouth head part entry in the Object Window with the Race window still open, and then drag and drop it to the "Additional Head Parts" field in the Race window. That should be it.

 

Again, if everything went well, when you select the Femboy race in the race menu during character creation, the PC should get all the default head parts you set in the Race data, with the possibility of changing eyes/hair/brows into any other head part assigned to the proper list using the sliders.

 

Hope this is clear enough, though I'm not sure, lol  :s. It may be a good idea to check out this tutorial: Creating a Playable Race - Revised. It's not exactly focused on the same stuff, but there is some overlapping (like the creation of the HeadPartsX FormLists), and it's explained with pictures and such.

 

Oh, and the head textures (the ones that can be selected using the Complexion slider in the race menu) are not stored in a FormList but rather in a specific field in the bottom of the Face Data tab.

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So, if my understanding is correct, you create a formlist with all head parts, which then you use in the race formlist in the head data section, then the game engine reads the head data and that's how it decides what head parts/tri morphs it should use. There should also be a texture formlist for head parts from what I could see. Am I mistaken?

Well, yes, I think you are.

 

You first create the new head parts (head, eyes, mouth, hairs, etc.). Once you have them, you need to let the game know which race they are supposed to show up for. To do this, you need a FormList containing those races. For example, a head part for use with the Nord race will be assigned to a FormList called HeadPartsNordAndVampire. Said FormList only contains 2 entries: NordRace and NordRaceVampire.

 

In this case, let's say the custom race for this mod is called FemboyRace, and its vampire version is FemboyRaceVampire. Just an example name. You would create a new FormList called HeadPartsFemboyAndVampire, and add both race records to it. Now, you have duplicated the vanilla female head and named it MaleHeadFemboy (because it's meant for males, even though it points to female meshes). In order to let the game know that MaleHeadFemboy should be available for the FemboyRace (and FemboyRaceVampire), you open the head part entry, and in the "Valid Races" field, you select HeadPartsFemboyAndVampire. That's it. Same goes for all the other parts (mouth, eyes, brows, etc.).

 

Now, next thing you want to do is tell the game which are the default head parts for the race. Hair, brows and eyes can be changed using the corresponding vanilla sliders, so you only need to choose a default one for each, but head and mouth are unique and cannot be changed ingame, so you have to make sure those are set up the right way.

 

You go to the race data, and to the "Face Data" tab. The "Base Head Parts" menu has specific fields for each type of head part (Face/Head, Eyes, Hair, Facial Hair, and Eyebrows). Select each one, and go to the drop down menu below; it will show all the head parts the game has recognized to be assigned to the race. If everything went well, you should have the custom parts listed here (i.e. the MaleHeadFemboy in the Face field, the MaleMouthFemboy in the Mouth one, etc.). Go through all of those selecting the default/basic parts of each type. You will probably have to leave the "Facial Hair" field empty for obvious reasons, but that's fine.

 

Now, all that's left is setting up all the head parts that do not belong in the Base Head Parts menu. In the case of this race, that's only the mouth. You need to search for the mouth head part entry in the Object Window with the Race window still open, and then drag and drop it to the "Additional Head Parts" field in the Race window. That should be it.

 

Again, if everything went well, when you select the Femboy race in the race menu during character creation, the PC should get all the default head parts you set in the Race data, with the possibility of changing eyes/hair/brows into any other head part assigned to the proper list using the sliders.

 

Hope this is clear enough, though I'm not sure, lol  :s. It may be a good idea to check out this tutorial: Creating a Playable Race - Revised. It's not exactly focused on the same stuff, but there is some overlapping (like the creation of the HeadPartsX FormLists), and it's explained with pictures and such.

 

Oh, and the head textures (the ones that can be selected using the Complexion slider in the race menu) are not stored in a FormList but rather in a specific field in the bottom of the Face Data tab.

 

 

Yeah it's exactly what I'm trying to do but for whatever reason the headparts I added won't show up in the list so I can swap the vanilla ones out. I managed to do so with the head mesh but it won't seem to work with the eyes or the hair. :\

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Yeah it's exactly what I'm trying to do but for whatever reason the headparts I added won't show up in the list so I can swap the vanilla ones out. I managed to do so with the head mesh but it won't seem to work with the eyes or the hair. :\

Well, in that case, I have no idea.

 

If it worked with the head and you assigned the same FormList to all of the other parts, then they should show up too. Are you sure you changed all of the other head parts to Male instead of Female? I assume you have, but it's the only reason I can think of for it to not work.

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So, if my understanding is correct, you create a formlist with all head parts, which then you use in the race formlist in the head data section, then the game engine reads the head data and that's how it decides what head parts/tri morphs it should use. There should also be a texture formlist for head parts from what I could see. Am I mistaken?

Well, yes, I think you are.

 

You first create the new head parts (head, eyes, mouth, hairs, etc.). Once you have them, you need to let the game know which race they are supposed to show up for. To do this, you need a FormList containing those races. For example, a head part for use with the Nord race will be assigned to a FormList called HeadPartsNordAndVampire. Said FormList only contains 2 entries: NordRace and NordRaceVampire.

 

In this case, let's say the custom race for this mod is called FemboyRace, and its vampire version is FemboyRaceVampire. Just an example name. You would create a new FormList called HeadPartsFemboyAndVampire, and add both race records to it. Now, you have duplicated the vanilla female head and named it MaleHeadFemboy (because it's meant for males, even though it points to female meshes). In order to let the game know that MaleHeadFemboy should be available for the FemboyRace (and FemboyRaceVampire), you open the head part entry, and in the "Valid Races" field, you select HeadPartsFemboyAndVampire. That's it. Same goes for all the other parts (mouth, eyes, brows, etc.).

 

Now, next thing you want to do is tell the game which are the default head parts for the race. Hair, brows and eyes can be changed using the corresponding vanilla sliders, so you only need to choose a default one for each, but head and mouth are unique and cannot be changed ingame, so you have to make sure those are set up the right way.

 

You go to the race data, and to the "Face Data" tab. The "Base Head Parts" menu has specific fields for each type of head part (Face/Head, Eyes, Hair, Facial Hair, and Eyebrows). Select each one, and go to the drop down menu below; it will show all the head parts the game has recognized to be assigned to the race. If everything went well, you should have the custom parts listed here (i.e. the MaleHeadFemboy in the Face field, the MaleMouthFemboy in the Mouth one, etc.). Go through all of those selecting the default/basic parts of each type. You will probably have to leave the "Facial Hair" field empty for obvious reasons, but that's fine.

 

Now, all that's left is setting up all the head parts that do not belong in the Base Head Parts menu. In the case of this race, that's only the mouth. You need to search for the mouth head part entry in the Object Window with the Race window still open, and then drag and drop it to the "Additional Head Parts" field in the Race window. That should be it.

 

Again, if everything went well, when you select the Femboy race in the race menu during character creation, the PC should get all the default head parts you set in the Race data, with the possibility of changing eyes/hair/brows into any other head part assigned to the proper list using the sliders.

 

Hope this is clear enough, though I'm not sure, lol :s. It may be a good idea to check out this tutorial: Creating a Playable Race - Revised. It's not exactly focused on the same stuff, but there is some overlapping (like the creation of the HeadPartsX FormLists), and it's explained with pictures and such.

 

Oh, and the head textures (the ones that can be selected using the Complexion slider in the race menu) are not stored in a FormList but rather in a specific field in the bottom of the Face Data tab.

Actually I had got it right for the most part. The game doesn't read directly from headparts formalist but from the head data tab in the race, which is why I was seeing female head meshes/Tris in-game while the headparts pointed towards the regular male meshes. That's what confused me at first.

Thank you for the thorough explanation.

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Well I found a solution for the non-apllicable parts on the femboy race. Somewho, the way to solve it is by setting the Valid Race droplist to "NONE" instead of selecting a race. This makes it selectable in the CK somehow. I however don't know if this means that it'll be selectable ingame (I have yet to test that).

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So I've tinkered some more with it textures-wise, and I've found an issue that I can't figure out the origin of. I've successfully swapped all the textures in the CK in favor of the female ones that come with CBBE and this is what the CK previews to me:

 

1500139684-how-it-should-be.png



However in the game instead of getting that face, I'm getting this nightmare fuel version:

 

 

1500139806-20170715192348-1.jpg



(I warned ya, lol)
As you can probably see from the first screenshot, the only thing I haven't swapped yet is the mouth and even that doesn't explain why I'm getting such a dramatic difference between the preview in the CK and the actual game. It looks like the game loads by default the "granny" texture, despite the fact that it's not even remotely mentioned in the default preset (and it is leaving me with my head scratching honestly).

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[...]

Not only is it loading one of the Old/Wrinkled face complexions (textures), but it's also loading a male one at that. Huh.

 

I assume your custom race started as a duplicate of one of the vanilla ones (Nord maybe?); if so, did you remove the vanilla male presets from the race data? If there is at least one NPC preset in the list, that appearance is loaded instead of the default racial one, and this applies for both genders. That could be your problem here: whatever preset loads by default points to one of the special (male) complexions, and thus the game loads that texture instead of the default female one. Alternatively, if you have set up the face texture options already, try moving the Complexion slider once that happens and see if the textures change to the proper female ones.

 

Also I really don't like the look of that neck seam. It's not only textures that don't match but there's also an actual physical gap between body and head, and that's not good. Are you sure you properly set up the head parts and the body meshes? And do you get a similar seam on vanilla females?

 

Last, but not least: for the love of Talos, get RaceMenu! Seeing the vanilla character creation UI was waay more of a nightmare than your bug, lol  :s.

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[...]

Not only is it loading one of the Old/Wrinkled face complexions (textures), but it's also loading a male one at that. Huh.

 

I assume your custom race started as a duplicate of one of the vanilla ones (Nord maybe?); if so, did you remove the vanilla male presets from the race data? If there is at least one NPC preset in the list, that appearance is loaded instead of the default racial one, and this applies for both genders. That could be your problem here: whatever preset loads by default points to one of the special (male) complexions, and thus the game loads that texture instead of the default female one. Alternatively, if you have set up the face texture options already, try moving the Complexion slider once that happens and see if the textures change to the proper female ones.

 

Also I really don't like the look of that neck seam. It's not only textures that don't match but there's also an actual physical gap between body and head, and that's not good. Are you sure you properly set up the head parts and the body meshes? And do you get a similar seam on vanilla females?

 

Last, but not least: for the love of Talos, get RaceMenu! Seeing the vanilla character creation UI was waay more of a nightmare than your bug, lol  :s.

 

 

You're correct, it started as a duplicate. It's a dupe of the Breton race so you weren't that far off ^^

All right ! I'll proceed to wipe these from the list of the femboy race and see if that fixes that (since I'm gonna go for the female look, these have to go anyways). I already tried moving the complexion slider and it doesn't change the nightmare fuel ^^

 

Vanilla females don't have that seam and it's an issue that has been there for a loooooong time (look at the post where I finally got the race working ingame and you'll see that same problem). I haven't been able to find a solution on how to resolve it sadly (as surprising as it may look I started this project with zero previous knowledge of 3d modelling and such).

 

And lol ! I've never used RaceMenu but I guess I should give it a shot someday ^^

 

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So I just tried to wipe out the presets and it did help a bit. I'm still havin an elderly face but it's not as much a nightmare fuel as it was before.I guess I should wipe out everything for good measure and then gradually rplae the male assets I'll have removed with the female ones.

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Well some late night tinkering proved successful as you can see below

 

 

1500160733-20170716011231-1.jpg

 

1500160736-20170716011406-1.jpg

 



What I had to do was wiping all the preexisting presets. I suppose that the reason why I was getting the nightmare fuel is because the game was (for whatever reason) applying all the presets at once. Wiping them off was obviously a solution.
Now there's still that seam problem but I have no idea on how to fix it so if you're interested in looking at it and seeif you can tackle the issue, I can send you the nif file :)

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Well some late night tinkering proved successful as you can see below

 

 

1500160733-20170716011231-1.jpg

 

1500160736-20170716011406-1.jpg

 

 

 

What I had to do was wiping all the preexisting presets. I suppose that the reason why I was getting the nightmare fuel is because the game was (for whatever reason) applying all the presets at once. Wiping them off was obviously a solution.

Now there's still that seam problem but I have no idea on how to fix it so if you're interested in looking at it and seeif you can tackle the issue, I can send you the nif file :)

Glad you figured everything out on the esp side, honestly for me that's voodoo, though in the past few weeks I've been tinkering with xedit and I have learned a few things.

The head mesh looks fine even the normals are properly aligned, so that's probably a texture problem. Maybe the head nif bsshadertextureset is pointing towards the vanilla texture path, instead of the custom race folder.

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Well some late night tinkering proved successful as you can see below

 

 

1500160733-20170716011231-1.jpg

 

1500160736-20170716011406-1.jpg

 

 

 

What I had to do was wiping all the preexisting presets. I suppose that the reason why I was getting the nightmare fuel is because the game was (for whatever reason) applying all the presets at once. Wiping them off was obviously a solution.

Now there's still that seam problem but I have no idea on how to fix it so if you're interested in looking at it and seeif you can tackle the issue, I can send you the nif file :)

Glad you figured everything out on the esp side, honestly for me that's voodoo, though in the past few weeks I've been tinkering with xedit and I have learned a few things.

The head mesh looks fine even the normals are properly aligned, so that's probably a texture problem. Maybe the head nif bsshadertextureset is pointing towards the vanilla texture path, instead of the custom race folder.

 

 

Perhaps it's that although I'd find that surprising considering the fact that I replaced all the textures. More likely though the seam perhaps comes from the body. Maybe I effed up the alignment or something :\ Sadly I'm too much of a noob on that matter to figure out what's wrong :x . The issue also shows up in the CK itself so yeah. Visually speaking it's like the body is too far back compared to the head, feet and hands. The seam isn't present on the female side AFAIK (but I gotta check to be 100% sure).

 

EDIT: Yeah the seam is also present if I switch to the female side. Also that side doesn't have any working animations for whatever reason (just a T-Pose). Oh well I'll look into that later.

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Well some late night tinkering proved successful as you can see below

 

 

1500160733-20170716011231-1.jpg

 

1500160736-20170716011406-1.jpg

 

 

 

What I had to do was wiping all the preexisting presets. I suppose that the reason why I was getting the nightmare fuel is because the game was (for whatever reason) applying all the presets at once. Wiping them off was obviously a solution.

Now there's still that seam problem but I have no idea on how to fix it so if you're interested in looking at it and seeif you can tackle the issue, I can send you the nif file :)

Glad you figured everything out on the esp side, honestly for me that's voodoo, though in the past few weeks I've been tinkering with xedit and I have learned a few things.

The head mesh looks fine even the normals are properly aligned, so that's probably a texture problem. Maybe the head nif bsshadertextureset is pointing towards the vanilla texture path, instead of the custom race folder.

 

 

Perhaps it's that although I'd find that surprising considering the fact that I replaced all the textures. More likely though the seam perhaps comes from the body. Maybe I effed up the alignment or something :\ Sadly I'm too much of a noob on that matter to figure out what's wrong :x . The issue also shows up in the CK itself so yeah. Visually speaking it's like the body is too far back compared to the head, feet and hands. The seam isn't present on the female side AFAIK (but I gotta check to be 100% sure).

 

EDIT: Yeah the seam is also present if I switch to the female side. Also that side doesn't have any working animations for whatever reason (just a T-Pose). Oh well I'll look into that later.

 

Would you mind posting both the body and the head mesh you're using?

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Well some late night tinkering proved successful as you can see below

 

 

1500160733-20170716011231-1.jpg

 

1500160736-20170716011406-1.jpg

 

 

 

What I had to do was wiping all the preexisting presets. I suppose that the reason why I was getting the nightmare fuel is because the game was (for whatever reason) applying all the presets at once. Wiping them off was obviously a solution.

Now there's still that seam problem but I have no idea on how to fix it so if you're interested in looking at it and seeif you can tackle the issue, I can send you the nif file :)

Glad you figured everything out on the esp side, honestly for me that's voodoo, though in the past few weeks I've been tinkering with xedit and I have learned a few things.

The head mesh looks fine even the normals are properly aligned, so that's probably a texture problem. Maybe the head nif bsshadertextureset is pointing towards the vanilla texture path, instead of the custom race folder.

 

 

Perhaps it's that although I'd find that surprising considering the fact that I replaced all the textures. More likely though the seam perhaps comes from the body. Maybe I effed up the alignment or something :\ Sadly I'm too much of a noob on that matter to figure out what's wrong :x . The issue also shows up in the CK itself so yeah. Visually speaking it's like the body is too far back compared to the head, feet and hands. The seam isn't present on the female side AFAIK (but I gotta check to be 100% sure).

 

EDIT: Yeah the seam is also present if I switch to the female side. Also that side doesn't have any working animations for whatever reason (just a T-Pose). Oh well I'll look into that later.

 

Would you mind posting both the body and the head mesh you're using?

 

 

The head mesh is the vanilla one with the CBBE textures (AFAIK Caliente doesn't supply any custom head mesh to the body).

The body mesh is attached to this post :) The issue in the screens is present since the very first time I managed to get the mesh working in-game so I have no clue what's wrong with it. If you need more screenshots for reference of the misplacement of the mesh do say it and I'll provide them ;)

femboybody_0.nif

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Thanks a ton ! I'm gonna test it right now and see if it finally fixed :)

 

EDIT: Tested it and the issue is vastly less glaring but seams are still present anyway. I'm attaching a few screens for reference :)

Actually I hadn't even looked at the hands and feet (whoops), that's not an alignment problem, though. When you edit a body mesh you should always lock the vertices along the seams, otherwise you often end up moving them without even noticing and I'm talking from experience here...the pain of fixing those seams :shy: .

Either way yours don't seam ( :cool: ) that bad, let me hammer at it some more.

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Thanks a ton ! I'm gonna test it right now and see if it finally fixed :)

 

EDIT: Tested it and the issue is vastly less glaring but seams are still present anyway. I'm attaching a few screens for reference :)

Actually I hadn't even looked at the hands and feet (whoops), that's not an alignment problem, though. When you edit a body mesh you should always lock the vertices along the seams, otherwise you often end up moving them without even noticing and I'm talking from experience here...the pain of fixing those seams :shy: .

Either way yours don't seam ( :cool: ) that bad, let me hammer at it some more.

 

 

Okies ! Thanks a ton ! :D I guess mine didn't seam because I only selected the chest in mudbox to avoid fucking up everything else ^^ (after the "body that looks like crumpled aluminum" I learned my lesson xD).

Thanks again for your work :D

 

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Thanks a ton ! I'm gonna test it right now and see if it finally fixed :)

 

EDIT: Tested it and the issue is vastly less glaring but seams are still present anyway. I'm attaching a few screens for reference :)

Actually I hadn't even looked at the hands and feet (whoops), that's not an alignment problem, though. When you edit a body mesh you should always lock the vertices along the seams, otherwise you often end up moving them without even noticing and I'm talking from experience here...the pain of fixing those seams :shy: .

Either way yours don't seam ( :cool: ) that bad, let me hammer at it some more.

 

 

Okies ! Thanks a ton ! :D I guess mine didn't seam because I only selected the chest in mudbox to avoid fucking up everything else ^^ (after the "body that looks like crumpled aluminum" I learned my lesson xD).

Thanks again for your work :D

 

 

I just have to say I really appreciate the work you guys are putting into this mod! It's so nice to see different representations and diverse mods like this. I can't wait to be able to use it and even stopped playing the game altogether to wait! Keep up the great work. ^_^

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