2019 Skyrim LE Stability Guide

[mrsrt]

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

I not know what more say to you because you simply ignore anything that not match with your ideas.

I had never ignore real facts. 

 

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

are only valid when we use default game configuration, we not have BIG mods and we only want play the same match for 2 or 3 months. More or less, your exact situation.

 

If you change the default uGridsToLoad from 5 to 7 or 9 the Memory Blocks run out very fast.

If you install some BIG mods like 3DNPC, RDO, Warzones, SIC, SkyTest, Proyect AHO, MoonPatch, Maid II Deception, Predators Lost Tribes, Wenches... yours Memory Blocks can be totally consumed before start the game.

I started the test with 1G for Block 1 with a new game and ran through Arnima, Blackland, Wheels of Lull, Middle-earth and something else. Avg consumption was about 350mb. I think much more impact here give mods which create registries in papyrus such as SLSF, SexLab, and that use extensive papyrus scripts, like DCL. 

uGridsToLoad ofc will affect on block 1, because game objects are stored there too. But it will increase dynamic data that load and unload, I think much more attention here should take static data.

 

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

If you play the same match for 2 or 3 month, one day, whitout any alert and whitout any explanation, you get CTD simply because the Memory Blocks run out, as you has verified.

Every day we play the file size of the savegame increase and that increment represent more and more Memory Blocks consumition and, soon or late, the game go to make CTD because the Memory Blocks are exausted.

I had several saves with about 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 4 game months and played quite well with the setup mentioned in the guide. Shouldn't unused data be cleared from block 1 with GC? You are talking about leak behaviour, if it would be this way, even with os allocators, eventually, it would bump to process memory limit, isn't it?

 

4 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

We can increase the size of the Block1 for solve the CTD but we can not increase the Block2.

Actually, we can with the second mem param of Sheson's patch: ScrapHeapSizeMB

The first param DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB determines how much memory you give for both blocks. The second ScrapHeapSizeMB how much from the given memory will be reserved by block 2 (the left for block 1). Try it on your setup. 

 

4 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

I make exactly the same: Start a New Game, wait the automatic savegame and close the game.

With OsAlocators=1 my game need 1 minute but with OsAlocators=0 need 2 minutes = 50% more.

 

If we talk about my normal savegame with a file size of 50mb and 1 year of history:

With OsAlocators=1 I can load it in 30 seconds but with OsAlocators=0 I must wait 5-7 MINUTES.

Yes, it sounds like a typical lack of memory behaviour. The game tries to write something, but there's no space, the game force GC to free some memory and wait for required space. It's quite strange that the game even loaded. 

 

5 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

The only way for asure to a normal user that NEVER can have problems in the game is use OsAlocators.

However, what i'm testing right now doesn't say so. I made a new game, ran across Skyrim and Highrock, stopped near Arnima city, made a save. Now I have a simple benchmark for stability: 

- load the save

- give to player 500 movespeed

- teleport with "coc whiterun"

- run to the whiterun stables

 

With os allocators I always get the CTD near the stables:

But with Sheson's patch the game easily survive it.  

Ofcourse, avoidance of memory blocks sounds much better, however, it also has it's problems, fragmentation for example. Btw, I'll continue searching how to cure the ctd.

[GenioMaestro]

1 hour ago, mrsrt said:

I started the test with 1G for Block 1 with a new game and ran through Arnima, Blackland, Wheels of Lull, Middle-earth and something else. Avg consumption was about 350mb. I think much more impact here give mods which create registries in papyrus such as SLSF, SexLab, and that use extensive papyrus scripts, like DCL. 

Please, use your head a bit. The scripts not have any influence in the usage of the Memory Blocks apart of the simple fact that are another object that the game must manage. The impact of one script inside the memory blocks is practicaly the same impact that can have a NPC or any activable object.

And the game have hundreds of NPC's and hundreds of activable objects.

Every object in the game use memory from the memory blocks and use memory from heap pool.

When the object disapear their memory is cleared and reused by another object.

The game not have any memory leak of any kind. I already said it to you a lot of times. Read it again:

 

The game not have any memory leak of any kind.

 

Is imposible, read it again, IMPOSIBLE, have a memory leak in Skyrim because the game not allow it.

Every object in the game is defined inside the ESM/ESP files and the only way for create new object dinamically is using scripts. If the scripts are bad made can consume all the memory of the game. But that is a problem on that script that must be solved by the developer. Simply report the problem to the developer and stop thinking in problems that the game not have.

 

 

Learn that the problems of the game are not related to yours personal and exclusive mod list.

Is evident that your game works with yours mod list. But can you run the game with my mod list?

Try add to your game the mods that i mentioned and note that none of them come this web site.

 

The memory usage of a mod is not related to how many script have or the frecuency with execute it.

Is related to the number of quest, object and npc's inside the mod because the game put in memory every quest, every object and every npc's before show the main menu. When you click New Game the game initalize every quest with the mark Start Game Enable and instantiate every dialog line of each active quest and every script related to each dialog.

The memoy need for the game is directly related to what have the mods. Not have any relation to how many plugings you have. A pluging list whit 200 ESM/ESP can need less memory than a pluging list with 100 ESM/ESP because the BIG diference is what have the ESM/ESP inside it.

 

 

1 hour ago, mrsrt said:

Actually, we can with the second mem param of Sheson's patch: ScrapHeapSizeMB

The first param DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB determines how much memory you give for both blocks. The second ScrapHeapSizeMB how much from the given memory will be reserved by block 2 (the left for block 1). Try it on your setup. 

One more time you imagine what you want and i'm bored of said it to you. READ THE DOCUMENTATION.

 

 

1 hour ago, mrsrt said:

Yes, it sounds like a typical lack of memory behaviour. The game tries to write something, but there's no space, the game force GC to free some memory and wait for required space. It's quite strange that the game even loaded. 

NOT. Again, you imagine what you want. Please, learn how works the SKSE Memory Patch before talk about it.

Use Memory Block Logs with MaxOnly=false and read the documentation, the forums and the public source code for understand how works.

[Khaahan]

WHOA!

What a show off... seriously.

 

I admire yours scientific genius in display and I really wish I had some myself but, honestly speaking, despite my will to understand how things work all I get from this thread is a confusing pile of numbers.

I guess you don't need me to remind you guys what Albert Einstein said about teaching and learning, simplicity and understanding. I'm not here to teach anything to anybody and definitely not to provoke anybody like a drama queen so I keep it simple myself and I start from the end, the purpose of all those numbers you guys listed with admirable studies and researches I hope are gonna lead you to a working place in any major gamehouse developers team I wish I could have.

You did and I tank you because I hope something they left in me about understanding how things work, but all that made you forget the final goal of forums' threads, which includes "giving answers" when addressing a common problem of common interest as well.

Took me 6 pages and a discreet amount of nighttime reading to come to this so I hope this might help you to have a different approach to the whole thing.

 

All that being said let's start from my specs, my typical modding and gameplay as well, just to give you a full scenario:

 

 

Rig: OMEN 17 by HP with i7 of 8th generation up to 3.4GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia GTX1070 with 8GB memory, 120Hz 4K display at 3840x2160 SDR, 256GB SSD + 2T HHD where the game and mods are installed.

 

SLE and SSE Mods: PRT/Painterly ENBs + NAT, all numerically possible Mods/Plugins installed including main 4K textures packages, traditional combat and scarse magics/spell use, a pletora of SexLab and Devious Devices mods with a few thousands animations for around 12k behaviours registered by FNIS.

 

Gameplay: 20% combat + 25% hunting + 55% roleplay for screenarchery... basically whatever can lead to building a graphic {by every meaning of the term} novel within both games.

 

FPS drop: from an average 40 down {with active ENB effects} to 20-13.

 

Common CTDs:

• game launching {the black screen freezes before logo loads but those fixes above prevents from crashing despite the several minutes taking to load a full saved game 
• loading entrance/exit from indoor areas and cities
• trying out new mods for the first time
• during and after animated interactions {mostly avoided by deactivating FXs}

 

 

Now.... given you a typical gaming scenario I tell you what I picked from all I did read here and what was suggested in the descriptions of the fixes mods listed in the original guide here {which I actually already read in ESO homepage days ago:

[Papyrus]

fUpdateBudgetMS=1.6
fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=1.6
fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=1000.0

bEnableLogging=0
bEnableTrace=0
bLoadDebugInformation=0

iMaxMemoryPageSize=8192 
// or
iMaxMemoryPageSize=12288     // 3/4 of available RAM

iMinMemoryPageSize=256
// or
iMinMemoryPageSize=512
iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=8388608
// or
iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=2000000000
//or
iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=4000000000

 

 

Now... you have an average common scenario among a high-end gaming users. We all have been reading with interest but I wasn't discouraged to come out to try coming up with a final propositive conclusion.

 

Would you tell us what we should take now, to make such a scenario a perfect example of stability, from all you generously posted before me?

 

 

 

 

You can shoot on me now.... I just hope my problem-solving attitude coming from my professional experience can come to help those who were lost so far.

 

 

 

Thanks in advance to all of you.

 

 

Cheers....

 

 

O   O

.  o  . 

 

   .

 

[RohZima]

Hey gents

 

I have a couple of questions if you can pull yourselves away from your techy debate which I and most people have no chance of following...

 

1. I don't see bashed patch mentioned anywhere. Why is that? Is it assumed that people use it or is it no longer recommended? I found it increases stability in my experience.

 

2. Do nifs and dds files use up resources even when they are not used in game play? I.e if I have a crazy amount of armor mods but they are not used by NPC or player char do they get loaded into ram? So another way of wording it is; does the size of my Data folder on the HDD matter that much?

 

-Roh

[mrsrt]

Every time I try to start a normal conversation, you bring this bullshit. I don't think we can cooperate in any way. But okay, once again...

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

Please, use your head a bit. The scripts not have any influence in the usage of the Memory Blocks apart of the simple fact that are another object that the game must manage. The impact of one script inside the memory blocks is practicaly the same impact that can have a NPC or any activable object.

And the game have hundreds of NPC's and hundreds of activable objects.

Every object in the game use memory from the memory blocks and use memory from heap pool.

When the object disapear their memory is cleared and reused by another object.

Wait, what?

- "The scripts not have any influence in the usage of the Memory Blocks"

- "apart of the simple fact that are another object that the game must manage"

- "Every object in the game use memory from the memory blocks and use memory from heap pool"

 

They don't consume memory from blocks, however they are stored in memory blocks, I understand you right? : D Are you okay?

Well, I just don't know what to say to you but just in case read this, lol: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/128438-2019-skyrim-le-stability-guide/page/6/?tab=comments#comment-2790773

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

The game not have any memory leak of any kind. I already said it to you a lot of times. Read it again:

 

The game not have any memory leak of any kind.

Omg, man, are you insane? : D 

Okay, let me help you to understand what we're talking about. 

You said directly: the longer you play with complex mods the bigger will be the block 1 consumption. In other words, some data will be written and not released while you're playing the same char, are you okay at this point? : D 

And now let's read together the leak definition: 

In computer science, a memory leak is a type of resource leak that occurs when a computer program incorrectly manages memory allocations[1] in such a way that memory which is no longer needed is not released.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak

 

If you were able to understand this definition, you may also underastand that if, according to your words, the game eventually will meet ANY block size limit, then eventually it will also bump to the process memory limit. It is maybe a bit harder to understand, but I hope you will handle it : D.

And now let's read the conequences section:

A memory leak reduces the performance of the computer by reducing the amount of available memory. Eventually, in the worst case, too much of the available memory may become allocated and all or part of the system or device stops working correctly, the application fails, or the system slows down vastly due to thrashing.

 

Sounds familiar, ye? It is not a pure RAM leak, however behaviour is pretty similar, this is what I meant under the "leak behaviour". I hope you were able to understand after that : D. 

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

Is imposible, read it again, IMPOSIBLE, have a memory leak in Skyrim because the game not allow it.

And now let's talk about a pure leaks. You say it's impossible. Okay. Then tell me please, how will be called a script attached to the player that will allocate arrays infinitely more than GC can clear due to its limited function? Maybe you need another demonstration? Or you just shut up and read the thread and tests I did before saying something stupid?

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

If the scripts are bad made can consume all the memory of the game.

Oh, then it's actually possible? It seems your logic is broken. Again.

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

The memory usage of a mod is not related to how many script have or the frecuency with execute it.

I said it is related to script allocations, not script count or poll frequency. If your script have static (global) fields they will be allocated when the script loaded, because it's a script owned properties. If scripts of a mod will have 1 mil of static floats or if they will create 100 arrays every 100ms, surprisingly for you, you will see impact of memory consumption by them. But if they don't have 1 mil floats and don't allocate 1k arrays per second it doesn't mean that it has no relation to memory consumption.

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

One more time you imagine what you want and i'm bored of said it to you. READ THE DOCUMENTATION.

Are you insane? I shown you 2 blocks on screenshot with 768mb and 512mb sizes. 

And setups like this is also possible:

 

Maybe you don't trust me, okay, read here:

http://www.gamesas.com/scrapheapsizemb-skse-ini-set-512-games-crashes-256-t399777.html

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2442319-maximum-skse-heap-memory-size/

 

Maybe you trust no one? Then test it yourself.

 

Now I wait from you the link to the mysterious documentation where written that i'm not right, otherwise pretty sure you have to shut up. 

 

2 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

NOT. Again, you imagine what you want. Please, learn how works the SKSE Memory Patch before talk about it.

Use Memory Block Logs with MaxOnly=false and read the documentation, the forums and the public source code for understand how works.

Not what? I said "it sounds like", the figure means similar behaviour for something. Do you have problems with understanding words? Do you disagree with that when a system has not enough memory it slows down because trying to free memory? Well, maybe it will help https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrashing_(computer_science)

Why do you mention some "documentation, the forums and the public source code" and don't include it? Oh, I understood, when you have nothing to say now you send me to read mysterious sources. But okay, let's have a look at source code of SKSE:

Spoiler

void Hooks_Memory_PreloadCommit(void)
{
	// these are the values used by the game
	const UInt32 kVanilla_defaultHeapInitialAllocMB = 256 + 256;
	const UInt32 kVanilla_scrapHeapSizeMB = 256;

	// clamp to these values because going over that is stupid
	const UInt32 kMax_defaultHeapInitialAllocMB = 1024 + 256;
	const UInt32 kMax_scrapHeapSizeMB = 512;

	// in megabytes, -256 depending on bInitiallyLoadAllClips:Animation
	UInt32 defaultHeapInitialAllocMB = kVanilla_defaultHeapInitialAllocMB;
	UInt32 scrapHeapSizeMB = kVanilla_scrapHeapSizeMB;

	GetConfigOption_UInt32("Memory", "DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB", &defaultHeapInitialAllocMB);
	GetConfigOption_UInt32("Memory", "ScrapHeapSizeMB", &scrapHeapSizeMB);

	if(	(defaultHeapInitialAllocMB != kVanilla_defaultHeapInitialAllocMB) ||
		(scrapHeapSizeMB != kVanilla_scrapHeapSizeMB))
	{
		_MESSAGE("overriding memory pool sizes");

		if(defaultHeapInitialAllocMB > kMax_defaultHeapInitialAllocMB)
		{
			_MESSAGE("%dMB default heap is too large, clamping to %dMB. using your value will make the game unstable.", defaultHeapInitialAllocMB, kMax_defaultHeapInitialAllocMB);
			defaultHeapInitialAllocMB = kMax_defaultHeapInitialAllocMB;
		}

		if(scrapHeapSizeMB > kMax_scrapHeapSizeMB)
		{
			_MESSAGE("%dMB scrap heap is too large, clamping to %dMB. using your value will make the game unstable.", defaultHeapInitialAllocMB, kMax_defaultHeapInitialAllocMB);
			scrapHeapSizeMB = kMax_scrapHeapSizeMB;
		}

		_MESSAGE("default heap = %dMB (effective %dMB if not preloading animations)", defaultHeapInitialAllocMB, defaultHeapInitialAllocMB - 0x100);
		_MESSAGE("scrap heap = %dMB", scrapHeapSizeMB);

		SafeWrite32(0x00687E87 + 2, defaultHeapInitialAllocMB); // will eventually be multiplied by 1024 * 1024
		SafeWrite32(0x00A4E6BE + 1, scrapHeapSizeMB * 1024 * 1024); // passed directly to VirtualAlloc
	}
}

 

 

Oh and what do we see here? Writing 0x00A4E6BE with the scrapHeapSizeMB value. And what is the address? http://enbdev.com/ctdfix.html Oh, it's the second block. It's time for you to leave your guru-crown and do normal conversation or just shut up and leave this thread. And if you prefer (and can) normal conversation we can continue to talk about defaultHeapInitialAllocMB and the intersting comment about bInitiallyLoadAllClips:Animation relation.

 

[mrsrt]

1 hour ago, Khaahan said:

WHOA!

What a show off... seriously.

 

I admire yours scientific genius in display and I really wish I had some myself but, honestly speaking, despite my will to understand how things work all I get from this thread is a confusing pile of numbers.

I guess you don't need me to remind you guys what Albert Einstein said about teaching and learning, simplicity and understanding. I'm not here to teach anything to anybody and definitely not to provoke anybody like a drama queen so I keep it simple myself and I start from the end, the purpose of all those numbers you guys listed with admirable studies and researches I hope are gonna lead you to a working place in any major gamehouse developers team I wish I could have.

You did and I tank you because I hope something they left in me about understanding how things work, but all that made you forget the final goal of forums' threads, which includes "giving answers" when addressing a common problem of common interest as well.

Took me 6 pages and a discreet amount of nighttime reading to come to this so I hope this might help you to have a different approach to the whole thing.

 

My purpose with the thread was always to help people. But every time Genio comes to the thread he tries to prove everybody around that he knows everything and people should kneel before his knowlegeness. Sometimes, he says really good and useful things, sometimes bullshit, it is okay, no one can know everything, but his manner of speaking is something I cannot put up. Every word of mine he tries to disprove no matter does he really know is it true or false. We would be able to cooperate in creating better guide or game setup, but everytime he start the war again and again. I'm not sure if the person can speak different. 

 

1 hour ago, Khaahan said:

FPS drop: from an average 40 down {with active ENB effects} to 20-13.

Fps quite low. At first, check if you have enabled power performance mode in your video driver settings:

Spoiler

 

Also, compare fps with and without enb (shift+f12 combination by default). If without enb you still have very low fps, highly likely you have installed too complex setup for lights and/or overtweaked your ini's. Try to use default skyrim.ini and skyrimprefs.ini together with all graphic related mods. 

Also, notebooks often low performance when not connected to the electricity network with accumulator survivability purpose.

 

2 hours ago, Khaahan said:

Common CTDs:

• game launching {the black screen freezes before logo loads but those fixes above prevents from crashing despite the several minutes taking to load a full saved game 
• loading entrance/exit from indoor areas and cities
• trying out new mods for the first time
• during and after animated interactions {mostly avoided by deactivating FXs}

At first you have to remove whole [Papyrus] section from your skyrim.ini. You touched options that shouldn't be modified and set several incorrect values. I recommend to completely  remove the section or use the one I left in the first message of the thread. 

CTDs during game launching often related to incorrect load order. Do you use Wrye Bash, or any other mod manager?

CTDs on loading between cells may have several causes:

- If CTDs happen always in the same cells highly likely it is a broken node/mesh.

- If it happens predominantly on loading crowded cells probably it is a memory related CTD. Try to disable ExpandSystemMemoryX64, make sure ReduceSystemMemoryUsage enabled (both in enblocal.ini), and set DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB=1280, ScrapHeapSizeMB=512 in SKSE.ini.

Also you can try UseOSAllocators=1, CustomMemoryBlock=1, CustomMemoryBlockTotalSizeMb=96 in crashfix ini. But for now I didn't find a working setup with UseOSAllocators and 4k textures.

CTDs when you enable some new mod often caused by lost dependency. It is also always possible to be caused by memory fault, try to play with options I wrote above if you're sure with dependencies.

I don't remember any special CTD with animated interactions, probably it's also caused by memory.

 

 

[mrsrt]

1 hour ago, RohZima said:

1. I don't see bashed patch mentioned anywhere. Why is that? Is it assumed that people use it or is it no longer recommended? I found it increases stability in my experience.

The main purpose of the guide is to make the game stable and bugless, I think bashed and dual sheath patches are more related to gameplay. I'd gladly expand the guide with gameplay-related questions, but I'm not sure if the forum engine survive it, every time I do some edit it loads for a minute. Probably it will need an another guide, but there's a good one exists already: 

Personally, I don't use bashed patch because I don't modify leveled lists, prefer it vanilla. 

 

1 hour ago, RohZima said:

2. Do nifs and dds files use up resources even when they are not used in game play? I.e if I have a crazy amount of armor mods but they are not used by NPC or player char do they get loaded into ram? So another way of wording it is; does the size of my Data folder on the HDD matter that much?

It is a quite tricky question. At first, when you start the game it preloads bsa's of active mods on background. If your armors/weapons are packed in huge bsa's it may increase a bit the pause between appearance of the main menu wallpaper and appearance of the actual menu.

When you already loaded the game and no weapon/armor from these packs exist in you cell/area then it has no other affection. But it can be said for sure only for armors and weapons. Some textures such as zaz furniture can be preloaded even if it doesn't exist in the actual scene. 

You also can check everything yourself. Call perfmon.exe -> disk tab -> filter by tesv.exe -> and look on what files your OS works now. I think it is the best way to answer your question.

[RohZima]

24 minutes ago, mrsrt said:

Personally, I don't use bashed patch because I don't modify leveled lists, prefer it vanilla. 

Thanks for the response. The page on nexus says that different leveled lists can cause a crash. I know that several crashed are caused by dirty mods edits or conflicts, CK stuff basically.

 

 

Quote

Call perfmon.exe -> disk tab -> filter by tesv.exe -> and look on what files your OS works now. I think it is the best way to answer your question.

I think I'll try that, thanks

[mrsrt]

19 minutes ago, RohZima said:

Thanks for the response. The page on nexus says that different leveled lists can cause a crash. I know that several crashed are caused by dirty mods edits or conflicts, CK stuff basically.

Ofcourse, if an esp has dirty raw edits with broken links it may bring ctds. It touches any edits, not only leveled lists, and often you cannot even load your game with that broken esp's. 

Normally, leveled lists cannot cause CTDs, a mod just takes some default leveled list and tries to write some new items. The second mod may take the same list and modify it, but it will take the vanilla one from skyrim.esm and ignore the edits that was done by previous mod. And this way only edits by the latest mod will apply to the game, because all previous edits will be overriden. Bashed patch just batches all these changes in one esp so they will work together. Nothing more. 

[GenioMaestro]

Please, use your head a bit. Any person with a bit of inteligence can understand it. Please, think a bit.

If the two parameter are related the sorce code must say it. For make that you say:

12 hours ago, mrsrt said:

The first param DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB determines how much memory you give for both blocks. The second ScrapHeapSizeMB how much from the given memory will be reserved by block 2 (the left for block 1). Try it on your setup. 

The source code must say:

MaxSize = defaultHeapInitialAllocMB

ScrapSize = scrapHeapSizeMB

EffectiveSize = defaultHeapInitialAllocMB - scrapHeapSizeMB

 

You see any similar in the source code that you paste? NOT. Each parameter not have any relation.

The lines of code say it very clear. If you read some words from an ignorant person in some forum not mean that the code make any similar. We are talking about public source code that every body can read.

You have paste the source code. Read it. If you not understand the source code ask to another person.

But please, not say stupid thing that can not be justified in any way.

EACH PARAMETER IS TOTALLY INDEPENDENT AND NOT HAVE ANY RELATION.

 

 

7 hours ago, mrsrt said:

Are you insane? I shown you 2 blocks on screenshot with 768mb and 512mb sizes. 

And setups like this is also possible:

 

Maybe you don't trust me, okay, read here:

http://www.gamesas.com/scrapheapsizemb-skse-ini-set-512-games-crashes-256-t399777.html

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2442319-maximum-skse-heap-memory-size/

For the second part, the web pages and the developer say that the second block cannot be increased.

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1362206-sheson-memoryblocklog/page-26

 

You see who write this? Is sheson, the developer of SSME. And what say:

Block2 usage can not be increased atm. There are a few boundary checks in the code so it will never use more than 256MB no matter the settings.

This really should not be a problem, because when block2 is full, more memory is allocated in smaller chunks somewhere else.

And what mean that? Exacty that: The second memory block can NOT be increased in any way.

 

Do you want see it? LOOK:

Spoiler

You see how the second block have Size 512 Commited 256? ----> Paragraph 1 tottally correct.

You see how the Memoy Block log say 9 256? ----> Paragraph 2 tottally correct.

 

That is because the second memory block can NOT be increased in any way no matter the settings. 

 

If any person have a value of 512 in ScrapHeapSizeMB the only thing that are making is waste 256 MB of memory for nothing because, as sheson say, the game NEVER use more than 256 MB in the Block2.

[Khaahan]

5 hours ago, mrsrt said:

My purpose with the thread was always to help people.

 

My comment was all about the comments section of the thread, not the thread itself which left me with doubts  or, better saying, left me with the desire to know more and personalise a result accordingly with my needs.

 

When I comment a thread or post I always try my best to be constructive, probably due to my professional role in Creative Management that inevitably comes up when has been part of 3/4 of an entire lifetime. I just hope nobody has taken my "comment to the comments" too personally. Anger and drama kill faster.

 

 

All that being said I thank you for having spent some time to reply and to help me with my case. I'm gonna read it all with attention and gratitude.

 

Note: I use MO2 for Skyrim and, very recently, Vortex for Skyrime SE.

 

 

 

Cheers....

 

 

O   O

.  o  . 

 

   .

[GenioMaestro]

8 hours ago, mrsrt said:

Wait, what?

- "The scripts not have any influence in the usage of the Memory Blocks"

- "apart of the simple fact that are another object that the game must manage"

- "Every object in the game use memory from the memory blocks and use memory from heap pool"

 

They don't consume memory from blocks, however they are stored in memory blocks, I understand you right? : D Are you okay?

Well, I just don't know what to say to you but just in case read this, lol: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/128438-2019-skyrim-le-stability-guide/page/6/?tab=comments#comment-2790773

Please, learn how works the game before talking about it. Each object in the game use memory, no matter what type of object is. Each npc use memory, each sword use memory, each script use memory. 

I alrready explain to you that the game alocate memory and normally not release it. Go to see it again.

 

Open your game and start a New game. Open the console and type "player.placeatme 00013480 100" and look how the game alocate memory and increase the ussage of the memory blocks.

Press esc and select "exit to main menu" and look how the memory is not released and the memory blocks continue having the same usage.

Whitout closing the game select again New Game, open the console and type again "player.placeatme 00013480 100" and you can see how the game not request new memory and the memory blocks have the same ussage because the memory is cleared and reused.

 

You have seen the same behavior when make test with yours script. I not understand why you continue saying that the game have any kind of memory leak or why say than the scripts can give any problem to game.

That is totally false. Look the data that i collect from my game the past week:

Spoiler

Of course, 18000 seconds / 60 = 300 minutes /60 = 5 horas but my max memory ussage is 2368 MB.

Look two log of 4 hours and one log of 5 hours: 4-5 horas.rar

Open it and see how many times Sexlab, Slaverun or Dcur start a scene: Hundreds...

 

Where is the memory leak when i can play with 300 mods and 250 pluging for 4 or 5 consecutive hours one day after another running hundreds of scripts every minute from SOS, Aroused, Aroused Monitor, Creature Framework, Sexlab, Separate Orsgarm, Apropos, Wet Function, Frostfall, Realistic Needs, PSQ, Virgin....

 

Where is the memory leak. Please? Can you explaing me where is the memory leak?

 

 

Another diferent thing is what mods are you ussing. We have 60k mods for Skyrim in Nexus and we know that some of them are bad developed and give problems to the game and can consume all the memory of the game and can break the game and the savegame. But that is a problem of that mods.

Is not a problem of the game. The game not have any kind of memory leak. Only some bad developed mods can give problems to the game, but the game, per se, not have any kind of problem.

 

Of course, if you develop a script that alocate 1 millon of arrays you go to break the game.

In the same way, if you install GoToBed you go to break the game. 

If you install the Nexus version of BeingFemale you go to break the game. 

If you enable the Cum Inflation feature of PSQ you go to break the game. 

All that are problems in the mods. Bad mods that are bad designed, bad developed and bad implemented.

That not mean the game is bad made or the game have a problem. The problems only come from the mods.

[mrsrt]

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

EACH PARAMETER IS TOTALLY INDEPENDENT AND NOT HAVE ANY RELATION.

Spoiler

 

Maybe if you stop using capslock with red text you will see messages of other users here:

7 hours ago, mrsrt said:

And if you prefer (and can) normal conversation we can continue to talk about defaultHeapInitialAllocMB and the intersting comment about bInitiallyLoadAllClips:Animation relation.

But it seems you cannot even read, so the conversation will not happen.

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

You see who write this? Is sheson, the developer of SSME. And what say:

Block2 usage can not be increased atm. There are a few boundary checks in the code so it will never use more than 256MB no matter the settings.

This really should not be a problem, because when block2 is full, more memory is allocated in smaller chunks somewhere else.

And what mean that? Exacty that: The second memory block can NOT be increased in any way.

Do you understand the difference between "usage" and "size"? Do you understand that block size != block usage? If the game has internal checks for the block what the f*cking problem to modify them yourself? Sheson says directly he didn't implement the feauture because his game and games of vast majority of players never reach 256mb. However your unique setup made it, so what the problem to make it yourself for your own game, especially when you have already increased block size? Nah, ofcrouse better to use os allocators and blame everything else.

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

Please, use your head a bit. Any person with a bit of inteligence can understand it. Please, think a bit.

Yes, yes, more words about thinking by the guy who lose logic even in his own messages. Or it's a monologue to yourself?

 

58 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

Please, learn how works the game before talking about it.

Yes, and more words about learning. Classic. Do you have any other words in your mind? Or you'll continue to attach them to every post no matter what it contains?

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

You have seen the same behavior when make test with yours script. I not understand why you continue saying that the game have any kind of memory leak or why say than the scripts can give any problem to game.

Oh, I see you have problem with reading, again. Okay, I'll copy the required test especially for you:

Spoiler

On 10/26/2019 at 11:20 PM, mrsrt said:

Test 6 - Garbage Collector memory reusage

To completely clear the 100.000 arrays GC needs 100000 / (60 * 143) = ~12 minutes. Then if I'll allocate 100.000 arrays in 12 mins they must not consume any more memory.

 

State: just after loading

Allocations: 100.000 iterations

 

State: next allocation in 12 mins

GC fully cleared the memory. 

 

Conclusion: GC fully covers its tasks within block 1, but its freeing behaviour quite weird.

Bethesda used very interesting solution with GC clearing, instead of batch clearing they used gradual clearing which will not make freezes, however this solution creates the bottleneck: if allocations happen more than framerate it will lead to inability of GC to clear required amount of memory what will end with some kind of memory leak.

 

 

It seems you have lack of computer science understanding and your knowlege ends within skyrim specific questions. Furthermore, you're refusing to understand that information I give you, however you still trying to dispute on them. Just. Read. This. Please. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_leak And after, maybe you'll finally understand what I mean.

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

Where is the memory leak when i can play with 300 mods and 250 pluging for 4 or 5 consecutive hours one day after another running hundreds of scripts every minute from SOS, Aroused, Aroused Monitor, Creature Framework, Sexlab, Separate Orsgarm, Apropos, Wet Function, Frostfall, Realistic Needs, PSQ, Virgin....

 

Where is the memory leak. Please? Can you explaing me where is the memory leak?

Do you think if a mod have scripts it must have problems? I shown in the thread at least 3 ways how to create a memory leak with papyrus engine, you can always find them. 

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

we know that some of them are bad developed and give problems to the game and can consume all the memory

Oh, so it's actually possible?

But wait, didn't you say that several hours ago?

12 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Is imposible, read it again, IMPOSIBLE, have a memory leak in Skyrim because the game not allow it.

 

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

The game not have any kind of memory leak.

Read this link again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_leak and connect the information together with your increasing gamesave, for example.

 

I really tired of these endless disputes with no purpose and profit nor for the guide, nor for game setup, nor for anything else. I just don't understand, is that fun for you, or what?

[Tron91]

Seems both of you are trying your guts out to prove each other's superiority. But, the end question is what do the end-users gain, do you both actually care? The final thing is, you load too many mods which conflicts with each other, you will definitely end up with CTD. Both of you, should recall that you are debating on a game which even the developers have left out to rot. Even steam doesn't shows that page. If you both want to help out, make patches for the mods which conflict with each other resulting in the stack dumps, or patch the mods which you refer as using abomination codes. It seems you are just breeding hatred and feeding useless junk to end-users. We don't need the technical know how, we need working solutions. It seems this thread is just starting to collect garbage at this moment. if you can, work constructively and work on making the mods which you say to be ill-written by replacing the ill-written codes with better ones. I am fully drunk at this moment since its weekend, but i went through all the thread and what do I gain. Nothing and just blabbering from two guys. Sorry, but its disappointing, it would be best if you two guys/girls (i don't know), work on something constructive and try to identify the mods which cause the inevitable CTD's and modify the ill-written codes with better ones so the Skyrim Scripting Engine wouldn't goof up and give the end user the dreaded CTD. Rest apart, you both have free will, you can choose which ever way you both choose. Just think if you can fix up a mod which contributes to a CTD, you are doing a great deed.

 

Damn its a long post. But, just give a though do the end-user want the technical know how? Or just a solution so that their game runs smoothly?

[mrsrt]

7 hours ago, Tron91 said:

Damn its a long post. But, just give a though do the end-user want the technical know how? Or just a solution so that their game runs smoothly?

Your post is absolute true. The bigger part of these disputes is totally useless, this is what I was talking and will talking. 3 damn pages about iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes, that doesn't even have affection on gameplay, it is not serious. However a small part of them has real impact on working game setups, such as memory questions, because they directly related to CTDs. If I had an opportunity to clean up the thread and leave only useful info for users/developers I'd do it, but, unfortunatelly, the forum doesn't give such functionality for authors of threads.

As for patches, for now in the thread already collected all required patches to make the game stable. Crashfix plugin + SKSE(SSME) + ENB cover the bigger part of all CTDs in the game. Maybe only SSME patch requires additional implementation for block 2, but, personally I don't see any point to do this, because my game as games of other players never go outside the limit. In single cases where it happens I'd recommend to fix the game setup, it is not normal.

As for problematic mods, you cannot know for sure will a mod have problems or not. If I find some I always try to fix it and if it's critical I share the hotfix like here: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/52384-dripping-when-aroused-le/page/30/?tab=comments#comment-2675345 (now it's included in the main mod)

Maybe it's actually a good idea to create a topic with my fixes. Maybe later.

[faky]

19 hours ago, RohZima said:

2. Do nifs and dds files use up resources even when they are not used in game play? I.e if I have a crazy amount of armor mods but they are not used by NPC or player char do they get loaded into ram? So another way of wording it is; does the size of my Data folder on the HDD matter that much?

 

im pretty certain that having loads of armors in your inventory will contribute to memory usage even if you're not viewing them at the moment. but then again if skyrim loaded everything it could into memory every time it was launched it would be impossible to really mod it

[mrsrt]

25 minutes ago, faky said:

im pretty certain that having loads of armors in your inventory will contribute to memory usage even if you're not viewing them at the moment.

Not certainly in that way. If you have an armor in inventory the game will have a game-object of the armor in memory as for any other item. It is not an actual nif or texture that will be shown, but the internal model of the object that holds data like armor type, slot, owner ref, etc, usually it's a few kb. When you open your inventory and move mouse cursor on the armor a preview model will be loaded to the memory (the one you see in menu). And only when you click to equip the armor the actual texture and nif models you see on character will be loaded in memory. If you unequip it, after some time it will be unloaded and memory cleared.

47 minutes ago, faky said:

but then again if skyrim loaded everything it could into memory every time it was launched it would be impossible to really mod it

Ofc, it is not loading whole bsa into memory, in that way the game wouldn't work even without mods. The engine checks only for required data inside bsa such as .seq files, body textures, menu textures, fonts and anything else required to launch the game. The left data from bsa will be loaded only when it's needed. 

[GenioMaestro]

21 hours ago, RohZima said:

1. I don't see bashed patch mentioned anywhere. Why is that? Is it assumed that people use it or is it no longer recommended? I found it increases stability in my experience.

 

2. Do nifs and dds files use up resources even when they are not used in game play? I.e if I have a crazy amount of armor mods but they are not used by NPC or player char do they get loaded into ram? So another way of wording it is; does the size of my Data folder on the HDD matter that much?

1 - You only need the Bashed Patch when you have mods that modify the leveled list.

 

2 - The mesh and textures are loaded from disk and putting in ram by demand.

When the game load the objects of each cell load the mesh and textures for each object of the cell.

If the game must show and npc with armor load the mesh and textures of the npc and the armor.

If yours armors are not equiped in any npc the game never load that mesh and textures.

Only load it when need show it.

 

The pure size of your DATA folder is irrelevant. The only important thing is how many ESP's are active and what have that ESP's inside it because the game load each record from each ESP before show the main menu and create the gigantic database of the game in pure memory.

 

Start a new game and while you are in the Main Menu open the console and start writing commands:

Spoiler

As you can see, while we are in the Main Menu, the game know each spell, each magic effect, each armor, each quest, each dialog line, each npc... from each ESP file that is active when start the game. That is the gigantic database of the game. And is created before show the Main Menu.

 

Each active ESP file is loaded and the game use memory for have their records always in memory.

But that not matter while the game have enougth memory for acomodate it.

Until you have a problem in the game not worry about the memory consumed by the ESP's of yours armors.

[mrsrt]

Information related to D8309A CTD. I have spent several hours to find out why it happens, this is what I found.

The CTD does not related to:

- SKSE plugins

- Active ESP/ESM and loadorder

- ENB preset and ENB configuration

- SKSE configuration

- Gamesave

- skyrim.ini and skyrimprefs.ini

- texture quality

I have removed all SKSE plugins (except crashfix), disabled all custom esp/esm, removed enb, used vanilla *.ini's, lower texture quality and continued getting CTDs on vanilla game start near Helgen. The game was completely vanilla with no mod relation, but CTDs still happened. Whenever I disable UseOSAllocators everything becomes well. As a part of players doesn't have the problem, but another part has, pretty sure the problem has platform and/or hardware dependent roots. 

 

If we start reverse engeneering we will find that the problem occurs at this place:

 

According to crashdump info we're getting classical SIGSEGV:

 

Then one of two registries gives segmentation violation. Let's check a pseudocode view:

 

The error occurs on line 63, Where we're accessing 2 int variables. The v10 variable is initializing at the beginning of do-while cycle and passing one call on line 60. The v11 variable we're getting from array with hardcoded index on line 62. As the game engine was written on c++ I should remind that the language has no checks and limitations in arrays accessing, and it is possible to access a memory cell outside of array memory area. If it happens, the result is unpredicted. If the accessing memory cell is not potected we will get its value which can contain absolutetly random information. If the cell is protected we will get SIGSEGV instruction from CPU, exactly that is crashing the game on D8309A.  

In other words, the game will not crash in that case until access to a protected memory cell, however, some bugs due to incorrect value may occur. It is possible that those who play with os allocators just never hit protected cells (or very rare) due to platform, hardware (and ofc allocation) difference. Or it is an another platform-dependent problem.

 

Btw, this research shown that the os allocators way to stability far not for everyone, and may bring additional crashes. SSME together with other patches linked in the thread is a more univesal way to cure CTDs and can carry needs for most of players. 

[GenioMaestro]

32 minutes ago, mrsrt said:

Information related to D8309A CTD. I have spent several hours to find out why it happens, this is what I found.

The CTD does not related to:

- SKSE plugins

- Active ESP/ESM and loadorder

- ENB preset and ENB configuration

- SKSE configuration

- Gamesave

- skyrim.ini and skyrimprefs.ini

- texture quality

I have removed all SKSE plugins (except crashfix), disabled all custom esp/esm, removed enb, used vanilla *.ini's, lower texture quality and continued getting CTDs on vanilla game start near Helgen. The game was completely vanilla with no mod relation, but CTDs still happened. Whenever I disable UseOSAllocators everything becomes well. As a part of players doesn't have the problem, but another part has, pretty sure the problem has platform and/or hardware dependent roots. 

Make a correct game configuration and look how all yours problems are solved.

 

You can NOT totally remove ENB. Every Skyrim game need ENBoost. If you remove it probably you get CTD.

Reinstall ENB, or reactivate it or rename the dll to the correct name, open your enblocal.ini and put:

[GLOBAL]
UsePatchSpeedhackWithoutGraphics=true

[MEMORY]
ExpandSystemMemoryX64=false
ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=true

That disable the graphics enhancer while the Boost functionality continue active.

 

Aditionally, the default skyrim.ini and skyrimprefs.ini not have the best configuration.

I recomend optimize your INI files with BethIni.

 

Finally, revise you not have trash in your DATA folder.

 

The CTD never, absolutelly never, can be caused by diferent hardware. The only posible cause is defective hardware or problems in the operating system, drivers, configuration...

If your problem persist reinstall the Visual C++ Runtime Libraries for 2010 and 2013.

[mrsrt]

2 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Make a correct game configuration

...

Reinstall ENB

...

I recomend optimize your INI files

-_-

Do you really think I didn't tried?

 

2 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

You can NOT totally remove ENB. Every Skyrim game need ENBoost. If you remove it probably you get CTD.

Oh really, and why it works for me with os allocators disabled? Why millions of players didn't crash on startup near Helgen in 2011 without enb? Almost any possible combination works on my vanila skyrim, until I enable os allocators. Do it tells something to you?

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

The CTD never, absolutelly never, can be caused by diferent hardware. The only posible cause is defective hardware or problems in the operating system, drivers, configuration...

If your problem persist reinstall the Visual C++ Runtime Libraries for 2010 and 2013.

Please, tell me why... Why you just can't keep silence with questions which you absolutely don't understand? Why am I again should explain you basic computer science things which you always can find yourself on wiki? Once again...

At first, you should know each PC has different ram speed, disk speed, cpu speed, gpu speed, bus speed and so on. All of these have direct relation on what and when data will be loaded first and last. This behaviour called "Race Condition": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_condition It results in that each PC has it's personal pattern of memory data for any process, but it is not determined and not predicted, because of the same race condition, however, pattern may remain similar sequences. It woudn't have any sense for a normal bugless application, but skyrim crashes with segmentation violation what already says that the application has problems. Now I just copy the part of my previous post, because I don't want to write things twice for people who cannot read:

2 hours ago, mrsrt said:

In other words, the game will not crash in that case until access to a protected memory cell, however, some bugs due to incorrect value may occur. It is possible that those who play with os allocators just never hit protected cells (or very rare) due to platform, hardware (and ofc allocation) difference. Or it is an another platform-dependent problem.

If you don't understand the array out of bounds part read this: https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/accessing-array-bounds-ccpp/

 

The next part is platform dependency. The crashfix allocator simply uses _malloc and _aligned_malloc which are completely dependent on operation system. Do I need to tell you why several years ago many software had different distributes for each version of windows? And before write anything again without thinking and reading, try to suggest yourself why bethesda used their own allocators for the game.

 

And again, this is not an idea for disputes, this is a real fact: os allocators option by crashfixes may bring additional CTDs such as D8309A. Whether it's related to out of bounds bug or it happens because of some platform dependent things, it's actually doesn't matter and doesn't change the fact of CTDs even on vanilla game. Just to be sure I'll download and install absolutely clean dist of vanilla game and test it (LE version).

[GenioMaestro]

10 hours ago, mrsrt said:

...

You must change your point because if you have a problem in your game and you are unable to solve it you must REQUEST HELP and not say the things that you say assuring that your explanation is the only valid.

 

Say us when you get the CTD, play in window mode and make a screenshot or explain exactly when you get the CTD, if you get it while the travel on cart or when must show the racemenu or when... Seems that you are not ussing Alternate Start while every body recomend use it because the vanilla start is very bugged.

 

I can asure you that thousand and thousand of players use OsAlocators every day whitout any problem.

Then, the cause of yours CTD must be in other side. I not have any problem when use OSAlocatos in vanilla game.

 

 

The cause, as i said, NEVER can be the diferent hardware and you know it:

10 hours ago, mrsrt said:

It woudn't have any sense for a normal bugless application, but skyrim crashes with segmentation violation what already says that the application has problems.

As you say, the diferent hardware is not a problem "for a normal bugless application" but you assure whitout any kind of doubth that "skyrim crash(...) = because is a bucket of poop" and that is the only posible explanation. Seems that is imposible that you have a problem in your configuration.

 

Excuse me, but Skyrim have now 12500 players and a lot of them use OsAlocators as any good guide say and not have any problem. If you have problems when use OsAlocators must be for a motive and, probably, is a fail the configuration of the game or in the configuration of your computer.

Is tecnically imposible that OsAlocators works perfectly for thousand and thousand of players and not works for you. If that is the case must be for a exact and concrete motive. Search it.

[faky]

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

snip

really? if skyrim wasnt a load of shit there would not be so many stability improving and bug fixing mods digging its' claws into the engine, memory and algorhitms just to make it playable. there's a reason it's called bugthesda.

 

yes, different pc parts can, in fact, cause different technical problems. just look at recent AMD gpu and cpu launches and how many technical issues those had at the beginning.

 

can you provide any numbers to back up your claims about how many players have osallocators enabled?

[GenioMaestro]

2 hours ago, faky said:

really? if skyrim wasnt a load of shit there would not be so many stability improving and bug fixing mods digging its' claws into the engine, memory and algorhitms just to make it playable. there's a reason it's called bugthesda.

Excuse me, but the base game not have any problem except the fuking Memory Blocks expanded in 2014 with SSME and eliminated in 2016 with OSAllocators. Any other problem is caused by the mods with bad meshs or bad scripts or by collisions at file level or ESP level. 

 

If the game really not works and is a bucket of poop why have 10k users after 8 years? Why have 60k mods? Why can I play 4, 6, 8 consecutive hours with 250 plugings? Why some players have 2k mods?

If you have problems in your game must be for a motive because a lot of players not have any problem.

 

2 hours ago, faky said:

yes, different pc parts can, in fact, cause different technical problems. just look at recent AMD gpu and cpu launches and how many technical issues those had at the beginning.

Of course, and you can buy a motherboard that need an upgrade in the bios or you must download new drivers from the web page because the drivers inside the CD are old. That things can happend.

 

But when we buy a machine we have a 100% security that the machine go the execute every program whitout any fail. We can not think that this game not works because the memory of the machine run too fast.

The problems never, absolutelly NEVER, can be in the machine until we have defective hardware.

 

Every computer in the world must execute any program in the same way any other computer execute it.

For that we use computers. Because the hardware diferences are managed by the drivers and the operating system.

Someone can think in buy a new computer and start having problems that not have in their old computer?

If that happend is because the computer is defective or the operating system have problems or is bad installed or is bad configured and not because the new computer is too fast.

 

2 hours ago, faky said:

can you provide any numbers to back up your claims about how many players have osallocators enabled?

Do you want numbers? Take a look to the download counts of SKSE Plugin Preloader.

As you can read in the description only is necesary when you enable OsAllocators in Crash Fixes.

The unique download count have 322k in 3 years, near 100k per year, near 300 per day.

Crash fixes have 540k unique downloads. At least, half of the users of Crash fixes have the preloader.

And the only motive for download the preloader is enable OsAllocators.

How many of the 10k actual players have OsAllocators. I presume, at least, 2k but can be half or more.

[mrsrt]

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

You must change your point because if you have a problem in your game

What problem in my game? I just tested it on vanilla setup of the game. Do you mean the original game has the problem? Maybe. Then you and others have the same problem. But it is much more relevant that the os allocators option brings the problem or it pop us only together, because ANY possible combination of options, with enb, SSME and other configs works perfect if os allocators disabled. Do you understand that the problem occurs only and only when os allocators enabled?

 

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

you must REQUEST HELP

Okay, I request help, tell me, guru, how to fix the CTD on vanilla game? And, please don't write this *** from above, I tried already every possible setup with enb, ini's and other tweaks. The only possible solution i see here is to patch up the place where the error occurs and add array capacity check, but who knows what problem will appear next.

 

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Say us when you get the CTD

It may occur on an absolutely random place, but some of them has much higher probably like whiterun stables and the default game start near Helgen. The best way to test it is to start the game without alternative start and while "Bethesda Game Studios" logo appears the game crashes. 

 

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Seems that you are not ussing Alternate Start

Ofcourse I don't, because I disabled all mods for the test.

 

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

I can asure you that thousand and thousand of players use OsAlocators every day whitout any problem.

And many more doesn't. 

 

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Then, the cause of yours CTD must be in other side. I not have any problem when use OSAlocatos in vanilla game.

 

 

The cause, as i said, NEVER can be the diferent hardware and you know it:

Now, you're continuing to show your incompetence and inability to understand things we're talking about. Okay, I'll try it to explain like to a child.

Spoiler

Imagine, we have a 8-sized int array:

int[8] array;

// some initialization

 

In memory it will look like for example this way:

 

Each memory cell we can access by index and get stored value:

int poll;

poll = array[0] // 7

poll = array[4] // 0

poll = array[7] // 11

 

Here we access only to the memory area allocated for the array. However, as I said already, c++ has no checks or limitations of going beyond the array borders. And it is possible to do things like this:

poll = array[8] // result is unpredicted

poll = array[1000000] // result is unpredicted, high probability of segmentation fault

 

In that case we're accessing next memory cell that is stored in memory:

 

If we access to a cell which is outside of array area we get absolutely unpredicted result, we cannot know for sure what OS placed in memory next to the array. However, if the algorithm of allocations doesn't change and it happens always in the same place the process memory will have a pattern of the allocations, which sequences may repeat.

For example, 2 threads try to load in memory 2 separated files with the same type and size. Both of them placed on HDD and the first file hardly fragmented on the disk because of what access to the file will be much longer than to the second file which storage area is not fragmented. In that case almost always the second file will be allocated in the memory earlier than the first file. 

Now imagine that allocation of the first file has protected cells, which access will give segmentation fault, when the second file has no protected cells, always give random result from the parent cell and never cause SEGV. 

I hope it's enough to understand the array out of range problem, possibility of hardware influence on the result and that you shouldn't dispute on complex questions you don't understand.

 

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

As you say, the diferent hardware is not a problem "for a normal bugless application"

Read carefully, and don't pull out words from context. I said we woundn't care of what and how stored memory next to the array due to race condition if we hadn't a segmentation fault.

 

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Excuse me, but Skyrim have now 12500 players and a lot of them use OsAlocators as any good guide say and not have any problem.

Have you ever create a platform-specific software? I bet not. Then I'll tell you an example of this developent. Some software was need a GUI. A library based on OpenGL was used for that purpose. Working version was created and shared for tests. Everything worked well for most of the testers, but very few users commited that they cannot start the program. After a long research was found that these users have notebooks and use Intel HD Graphics which simply don't support actual versions of OpenGL on very basic level. Do I need to draw a parallel with the case we're talking about, or you'll do it yourself?

 

4 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Excuse me, but the base game not have any problem except the fuking Memory Blocks

What??? Are you okay? What do you think crashfix plugin fixes then except your os allocations?

 

4 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

But when we buy a machine we have a 100% security that the machine go the execute every program whitout any fail. We can not think that this game not works because the memory of the machine run too fast.

The problems never, absolutelly NEVER, can be in the machine until we have defective hardware.

Absolutetly wrong on several points. 

At first you should learn about processor instructions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instruction_set_architecture and other PC interfaces, technologies I don't want to list, do it yourself. What do you think will happen if some software will send an instruction to CPU which is not supported? It is good if OS or the program itself will try to prevent it, but it happens far not always, because it's a compilator responsibility. And yes, in 2020 CPUs still have different sets of that instructions and even different versions of sets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE4 

Just read again the example with OpenGL I left above. If you want, I can bring many more.

 

4 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Do you want numbers? Take a look to the download counts of SKSE Plugin Preloader.

As you can read in the description only is necesary when you enable OsAllocators in Crash Fixes.

The unique download count have 322k in 3 years, near 100k per year, near 300 per day.

I downloaded the preloader several times, but don't use it on the main game. I also may download a mod and never install it. These numbers say nothing, and you cannot know how many players use some mod/tweak right now. You cannot even know how many players play right now, because many users may have a non-steam copy of the game as me.