SL survival / Spank that ass

[Lupine00]

20 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I disagree. I absolutely hate getting anything for free/without risk in skyrim. It annoys the absolute shit out of me. Look heres a free bed in the middle of town! - makes inns completely pointless and player homes less pointless. I've no problem with finding an abandoned camp to sleep at as there is a certain risk involved

And this feature should be a non-negotiable, non-optional feature?

There are good reasons to disable this in some cases, and simply because you don't see them or agree with them doesn't mean that everyone who wants the other features of SLS feels the same way; it just narrows the target audience.

 

20 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I just don't get the hate. 

How did you get from a statement of an opinion, devoid of any strong color or adjectives to "hate"?

Is there something infectious in the LL environment?

 

Technically it's ... um ... a great feature, sure. I don't know that people really need it to stop them stashing stuff though - they could just substitute an iota of self-control - and as there are other kinds of stash, if you're determined you can get around it. To me, it feels a bit like a solution in search of a problem. There likely a feature that I'd love, based on container thieves - especially if you can track them down, rob them, or beat them to death and rob them - but the existing one isn't valuable to me.

 

I don't so much care about the CPU it uses, as the messages that inhabit the top-left of my screen, related to its internal workings.

If it were more quietly spoken, I probably wouldn't notice it existed.

 

20 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

While entry would be more immersive it would break, at the very least, the follower requirement. 'Hey you, please go back inside and get a follower. Pretty please?'. Not to mention the guards getting murdered by dragons/bandits etc. Or just wandering off and being unable to find them when you want to get inside. =annoying.

Presumably, it occurred to you that leaving with a follower and entering with a toll might be two distinct things? So why this silly straw man?

You could stop one on the way out, the other on the way in. It's an extra NPC. My game can cope!  

And sure, go back in and get a follower feature would be annoying - if you did that - but doing annoying things to the player - like surprise raping them with the entire campus population of the College of Winterhold for sleeping in their own bed - is something SLS makes a speciality of. By design. So why are you afraid of it here?

 

But given the limited value of the must-leave-with-follower feature as it currently operates, you could drop it entirely and simply do "on enter" without losing much. Or not.

 

I guess I'm just not huge on these "tick a box in my MCM so I can't cheat myself" kind of features. It's OK when they're at a certain level of remove, so you don't notice that's what you're doing, but with the follower thing, it was a bit in my face. "I chose that I have to have two followers, so now I have to have two followers. Uh, but I just chose that." It feels like a "lock MCM when bound" mechanic, except much less stupid.

 

With the containers, there's a chance your stuff won't be stolen, so it's not just that. If you did a bit more with the follower thing it would have more value. Even if it was ... random ... the horror. But something better than random that's quick enough to implement wouldn't be hard.

 

20 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Oh and random shit I also hate with a passion. My biggest problem with cursed loot is it's all random. Having to change your current objective because Utility.RandomInt() says so is annoying as fuck. AS FUCK! (Sorry but I can't emphasis enough how much I hate it)

Now... here is the hate. I think I caught you on a bad day. Just to clarify what HATE looks like, scan up to the box above, the one with your words in it.

Did I write anything even remotely resembling that amount of rage and hate? Not even in jest...

 

Sure, that stuff can be annoying, but you probably don't install DCL if you don't want that, and even if the position is more complex, you can disable all the random loot, random conversations, random rapes, whatever you want to disable from DCL really.

 

20 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I am open to doing some kind of deals for a 'toll pass' though. 

You don't have to be open to them. Do as you like. This was a survey, asking for opinions, and ... you got some. What you do with them is your business.

 

20 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

All of the things you bring up can be prefaced with 'in my opinion'.

Yes. They could, but that would be pointless. It's self evident they're opinions. I trust the reader to be able to distinguish fact from personal preference. It saves a lot of boilerplate. Even then, it's the internet, so I end up with a certain amount of qualification, and attempt to soften, but it rarely makes any difference. See above statements about hate, where there was ... no hate really.

 

I checked the SLS forum no longer than two weeks ago for a new version - in my mind - but I guess it was more like a month, or longer? But at the time it didn't seem to have a new version, and the commentary and the things you were saying on the StA forum seemed to imply there was no reasonable likelihood of a new SLS version in a very long time - possibly EVER. So I didn't rush to check again.

 

 

So I'm pretty surprised to find that RND dependency is gone. And Simply Knock. I must have just missed the upload by a day.

 

As for the thread being old. A couple of weeks - even a month - is a blink of the eye in LL development time. I get to write about a dozen lines of code a month I think. Or it feels like it.

[Monoman1]

I think I misinterpreted your post a little. The tone of your post came off as slightly entitled. 

 

You are entitled to nothing. 

 

I've no problem with suggestions but much of your ideas would require me to gut major features of the mod entirely and start again. You can see how I would find this unpalatable/unreasonable to please one person.

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

And this feature should be a non-negotiable, non-optional feature?

There are good reasons to disable this in some cases, and simply because you don't see them or agree with them doesn't mean that everyone who wants the other features of SLS feels the same way; it just narrows the target audience.

Sure I understand but people don't seem to understand that every option I add requires:

1. Additional coding, processing of that code and debugging. The mcm for survival is already over 2000 lines long. God only know how many lines of code total. (Just checked - Almost 18,000 lines of code for the whole mod)

2. Each option needs to be further factored into every other option. Survival already has 23 soft dependencies (probably more since the update) and needs to consider each permutation of mods and their options. Some may be straight forward. Others less so. 

 

The bed script is only applied to stupidly easy beds like the companion beds. 

 

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Is there something infectious in the LL environment?

I (one person) am not representative of the LL community. That's a mighty big brush you've got there. I'd like to think I help people as much as I can. Maybe I'm wrong.

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

How did you get from a statement of an opinion, devoid of any strong color or adjectives to "hate"?

You said "That, and Simply Knock. I never want that in my game."

Sounds like you are not even willing to entertain the idea of installing the mod without giving any actual reason. Look if you don't want to install a mod that's your business. But Survival requires SK. There's literally nothing I can do about it. You don't like SK. You also don't like the SK scenario that Survival adds. Many other people DO like the SK scenario and would like to expand on it. You're not forced into that scenario at any point. So complaining about a dependency that I can't do anything about and a feature that you're never forced to use is useless. 

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Presumably, it occurred to you that leaving with a follower and entering with a toll might be two distinct things? So why this silly straw man?

And sure, go back in and get a feature would be annoying, but doing annoying things to the player - like surprise raping them with the entire campus for sleeping in their own bed in the College of Winterhold - is something SLS makes a speciality of. By design. So why are you afraid of it here?

Because it's too much work? Again look at the picture above. 

Why would I spend days probably creating a new separate mechanism which would also need more processing when I have a fairly suitable mechanism already in place. 

 

You're not forced to use the bed at the college. And you complain about random rape in the college and then want random rape for tolls. I can't win!

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Now... here is the hate. I think I caught you on a bad day. Just to clarify what HATE looks like, scan up to the box above, the one with your words in it.

Did I write anything even remotely resembling that amount of rage and hate? Not even in jest...

 

Sure, that stuff can be annoying, but you probably don't install DCL if you don't want that, and even if the position is more complex, you can disable all the random loot, random conversations, random rapes, whatever you want to disable from DCL really.

I've no problem admitting my hate for certain methodologies. And DCL is more or less switched off in my game. I do keep it for the handy 'Free me' and to look at new quests etc. But usually when I've done it once that's enough for me. Being randomly strapped into a debilitating collar and having to change direction entirely is not my thing. I'd have no problem if it was something the player volunteered to do and maybe was gaining something from the entire experience or was as a consequence of you fucking something up (getting defeated etc). Instead it's just because the random numbers said so. 

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I don't know that people really need it to stop them stashing stuff though - they could just substitute an iota of self-control

I need it. I wouldn't have spent time coding it otherwise.

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

There likely a feature that I'd love, based on container thieves - especially if you can track them down, rob them, or beat them to death and rob them - but the existing one isn't valuable to me.

That's a good idea. And hopefully I'll get to do something like it in future. But again see the picture above. That and I spent almost two weeks solid (I was off work and spent most of it modding. How sad is that?) making an update to Survival to add toll evasion. One single, fairly simple (in it's idea at least) feature and it still isn't done yet....

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I don't so much care about the CPU it uses, as the messages that inhabit the top-left of my screen, related to its internal workings.

If it were more quietly spoken, I probably wouldn't notice it existed.

.... the notification? The like one notification that you get when you add an item to a container? Sure it's a debug notification that shouldn't really be there but I don't see why it's such a problem. I myself hate spammy notification mods but that one can't happen all that often at all.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

You are entitled to nothing. 

Really? Maybe we should all be entitled to some things though.

 

I had a very small set of people in mind when I spoke of some kind of rage in the LL community.

I hadn't seen it in you before ... hence infectious.

Not a broad brush so much as a laser pointer.

 

 

I'm well aware of how long it takes to do anything in Skyrim.

I'm well aware of how long it takes to do anything in game development.

I'm well aware of how long it takes to do anything in software generally.

I'm actually kind of tired of hearing it, but ... having it mansplained to me takes the cake ... you know I lampshaded the exact issue of time-to-develop features in my first post?

 

Remember that?

 

Can't you just let somebody share your pain?

We all want to do everything, but have no time, and then we're dead.

 

So why are you telling me it takes time to do stuff? Why waste your time on that? It feels like a sort of revenge because I used short snippy words about SLS.

 

 

I didn't expect anything.

I don't demand anything.

I'm not ENTITLED to anything beyond some basic consideration as a human being who has invested some amount of time and effort trying to tell you something that you aren't really hearing. Instead you're picking on details and reacting to my comments as an attack that they aren't, like there's an argument you have to win, when I wasn't having an argument I was simply trying to be convey an alternative state of mind to your own.

 

I might say some things I believe are true, and you can act on them, or not, as pleases you. You could say they are "opinions" and you'd be right, but they are informed opinions that follow from some considerable relevant experience that goes a bit beyond Skyrim, to vastly understate it.

 

It's not like I expected you to agree with me, because it was plain from the outset that ideas like the containers are precious to you, and you ... really seem to like Simply Knock ... so much you once said you would never remove it from SLS. I wanted you to consider how those features could be viewed by others - how they are viewed by me. 

 

Instead of an invitation to consider your game design so that you can develop more efficiently, you're hearing some kind of criticism or attack.

Instead of a few ideas to play with, you're hearing demands for feature delivery.

 

I know how SLS started, as a bunch of stuff you just wanted for yourself, and then released. This has been explained in places like ... the front page of the mod.

That humble origin is all very well, but it resulted in many features that were not polished, and only fit together as a coherent whole for people who play almost exactly the way you do.

 

If you'd made it with the simple clarity of purpose that infuses StA, you'd have more results for less effort.

It wasn't made that way. I understand that there are reasons. It is how it is.

But it doesn't mean it's going to be the best plan going forward either.

 

What you did with StA was the right thing. You took a single feature and you polished it until it was good.

With StA it's love or hate, no in between.

 

In my earlier post, you may notice that I do not waste any time or words on documenting what is good in SLS.

Does this mean there was nothing good?

No. It does not.

The good does not need to be addressed, unless my goal was to ingratiate myself in the hope it would make you more inclined to do what I suggest.

You should only do things I suggest because they are right, not because I heaped insincere praises on you.

 

If you do not think they are right, you should definitely not consider doing them.

 

 

When I said of SK that "I never want that in my game." It means that. Only that. No more. No less.

I had limited time, and I can see I wasted it, because what I should have done was write...

 

"I don't really make use of that feature."

 

I'd have saved both of us the time I spent re-answering this twice.

 

Or maybe what I should have added is that Simply Knock cost me more time than I wanted in resolving the load-ordering vs left-pane, and created some nasty conflicts in my game that were not easily remedied by any possible re-ordering. I had to throw out other mods to make it behave. That's why it's a problem. I would say it's somewhat toxic. It screws with things that are extremely prone to conflict with a bunch of equally ill conceived Nexus mods that do things I sort of wanted. In the end the mods I removed are not greatly missed, but the time I wasted dealing with it was still pure undiluted frustration and tedium.

 

On reflection, my terse dismissal of SK does speak volumes about my feelings for it after all.

In the end I removed it too, and SLS with it, because there weren't enough things there I wanted enough to bear the various conflicts (and RND).

 

I like a lot of things in SLS, but there's nothing that I must have. It lacks a killer feature. The cum nutrition almost sells it, the map and compass almost sells it, the toll collectors almost sells it, the ass slapping almost sells it, sex warmth almost sells it, but each has a little problems that undercut them just enough to rob them of that must-have quality, and there's not much synergy between them.

 

That's a world away from them being unwanted.

 

 

However, on unwanted debug messages...

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

but I don't see why it's such a problem

I didn't say it was. Re-read exactly what I said.

 

However, I did release a new version of SLD mainly to remove some bogus debug messages. Infer what you will from that.

I guess I care more about that sort of thing than some others.

 

 

And this...

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I need it. I wouldn't have spent time coding it otherwise.

I want to understand this better.

 

 

And this...

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I've no problem admitting my hate for certain methodologies. And DCL is more or less switched off in my game. I do keep it for the handy 'Free me' and to look at new quests etc. But usually when I've done it once that's enough for me. Being randomly strapped into a debilitating collar and having to change direction entirely is not my thing. I'd have no problem if it was something the player volunteered to do and maybe was gaining something from the entire experience or was as a consequence of you fucking something up (getting defeated etc). Instead it's just because the random numbers said so. 

Maybe hating things you don't like isn't a strength? If you don't look at why people like these things you miss some lessons. Kimy's behemoth isn't successful simply because it's big and tries to be everything, it's successful because of the things it does really well. Some things it does best of all. It may not look like it to you, but the random items are exactly what some people want, and they have a lot of tools to configure how they work. That feature is polished. Refined. Pretty much finished.

 

You may not like it, but some people do. Dismissing it with hate doesn't gain anything. Now, dismissing it with arguments, as you do next, that's a starting point.

 

When you say:

 

"I'd have no problem if it was something the player volunteered to do and maybe was gaining something from the entire experience or was as a consequence of you fucking something up."

 

That's more interesting, and it leaves some space. You can hardly call me on snippy dismissals of functionality if you do the same. But there's a degree of difference. I spent a lot of time explaining details I thought were worth it, and I didn't spew hate on anything.

 

Of course, DCL does have combat defeat features, and a sort of arousal control game, and other things that can make that collar you dismiss considerably less random. But you're right to see how it could be better.

 

You applied that thinking to SLD, but you could only apply it from your single viewpoint.

As an experiment, adopt mine, and rethink every single feature in SLD  

Did you get any insights?

No.

 

Oh well.

I guess if it was that easy we'd have world peace by now.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

You're not forced to use the bed at the college. And you complain about random rape in the college and then want random rape for tolls. I can't win!

And this... It's not exactly *random* if I have a slider for it.

 

I have no slider for the college. I have to accept college rapes along with every other surprise bed rape.

 

Most of which I never exercise, so when I used the college bed, with a character who was almost dead, and near crippled by Apropos, who had spend many IRL hours earning enough money to buy clothes and food whoring at the inn, some bunch of asshats raped her and didn't even pay for the privilege!

Just for once, I actually felt sorry for my character, and once that happens, I have to quit, the game is toast.

 

 

It's on a par with the time I installed Wounds and Bondage Furniture World together, and my character was beaten to a pump and crippled for her "birthday".

 

Stop that! I can hear you laughing!

[Monoman1]

I am not 'mansplaining' anything to anyone. I was not even aware of your sex until you brought it up. Nor do I think I 'know better' than everyone. I am relatively new to making mods and I also do not have a background in coding etc.

 

I am simply explaining (with the pic) that I have given a lot to the community and that the mods I make, generally, I write for ME. If I can reasonably accommodate people with options etc. No problem. Removing RND and adding support for iNeed was a massive step out of my way for me. 

 

I am not offended. If you were, I apologize. 

 

Look. This has gone on long enough. So I'll leave it at that. 

[badbat111]

On 3/2/2019 at 3:45 PM, Monoman1 said:

I'm going to try to remove the hard dependencies for devious devices and rnd for the next update so it's more about whether it 'fits' survival. 

when i tryed your spank that ass mod it kept spamming pop ups about milk something maybe i downloaded wrong spank that ass or something ?

[Guest AthenaESIV]

I voted yes simply because imo Skyrim Survival is one of the best nsfw mods on ESV and recommend it to everyone.

 

Would like to see the slap feature get expanded on more, and if you allowed for compatibility with BakaFactory's SLHH mod that would be fantastic.

[Monoman1]

11 hours ago, AthenaESIV said:

I voted yes simply because imo Skyrim Survival is one of the best nsfw mods on ESV and recommend it to everyone.

 

Would like to see the slap feature get expanded on more, and if you allowed for compatibility with BakaFactory's SLHH mod that would be fantastic.

Spank that ass was separated into it's own mod some time ago: 

 

 

I don't see any way of closing the thread. So I'll just edit the original post.